If you don't recall, Magic was originally designed as a "time-filler" for D&D players while they were either immersed or waiting between campaign actions (or something to that effect), so Magic is heavily influenced by those sorts of games that use dice and such only in a different way. The ability counters will be clunky yes but honestly it will help with the flow and strategic clarity of the game and allow for smoother moves rather than guesswork. And if you're worried about ability counters, that's what sealable snack bags are for. No biggie.
'buster
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from that nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
If you don't recall, Magic was originally designed as a "time-filler" for D&D players while they were either immersed or waiting between campaign actions (or something to that effect), so Magic is heavily influenced by those sorts of games that use dice and such only in a different way. The ability counters will be clunky yes but honestly it will help with the flow and strategic clarity of the game and allow for smoother moves rather than guesswork. And if you're worried about ability counters, that's what sealable snack bags are for. No biggie.
'buster
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from than nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
'buster
You already incorrect commander has far more confusing things than this
It’s almost nothing for commander they can deal with it no problem
Firstly, I will not censor myself, they are free to delete it if they want. I wasn't calling anyone in specific a retard, just that is how the committee treats us as such.
So I can use the n-word as often as I like, so long as I'm not directing it at a specific person, and nobody should be offended? Is that how this works?
Using appropriate language in a family friendly space isn't self-censorship, it's just being a good person.
If you don't recall, Magic was originally designed as a "time-filler" for D&D players while they were either immersed or waiting between campaign actions (or something to that effect), so Magic is heavily influenced by those sorts of games that use dice and such only in a different way. The ability counters will be clunky yes but honestly it will help with the flow and strategic clarity of the game and allow for smoother moves rather than guesswork. And if you're worried about ability counters, that's what sealable snack bags are for. No biggie.
'buster
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from than nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
'buster
People playing with Exert counters didn't seem too problematic, and it's I expect that in a serious game of Magic, if there's a creature with lots of different types of these counters on it, either the game will end in short order, or the creature will be dealt with, thus removing the counters from relevance either way.
If you don't recall, Magic was originally designed as a "time-filler" for D&D players while they were either immersed or waiting between campaign actions (or something to that effect), so Magic is heavily influenced by those sorts of games that use dice and such only in a different way. The ability counters will be clunky yes but honestly it will help with the flow and strategic clarity of the game and allow for smoother moves rather than guesswork. And if you're worried about ability counters, that's what sealable snack bags are for. No biggie.
'buster
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from than nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
'buster
We've had cards that permanently grant abilities (such as Riot cards). We have cards that change power and toughness constantly. We have entire decks built around +1/+1 counters, -1/-1 counters, loyalty counters, etc. We have cards that trigger at specific points on your turn and can be missed. We have had abilities that return stuff to play with a modified P/T. We have had formats with two different types of face down card, each with slightly different rules. We have over 20,000 unique cards.
Magic is a complicated game. Having a few tokens, which don't require memorization as some of the things I mention above, is not going to kill the game. Is this really more egregious than having a Narset or Teferi out and forgetting that you can't draw a second card or play at instant speed? I don't really think so.
If you don't recall, Magic was originally designed as a "time-filler" for D&D players while they were either immersed or waiting between campaign actions (or something to that effect), so Magic is heavily influenced by those sorts of games that use dice and such only in a different way. The ability counters will be clunky yes but honestly it will help with the flow and strategic clarity of the game and allow for smoother moves rather than guesswork. And if you're worried about ability counters, that's what sealable snack bags are for. No biggie.
'buster
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from than nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
'buster
I'm not making it trivial but rather making it seem somewhat more tolerable, at least for a game play memory sake. Again, like I said, the counters will be clunky but manageable. They're optional. Nothing says you have to use the counters. If you trust your own memory and that of your opponent, knock your socks off.
'buster
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Also, for those interested in the Lutri, the Spellchaser topic, from the RC:
"Updates and Community content
UPDATE
Banning Lutri, the Spellchaser
We’ve never banned a card before its street release date, but we feel strongly compelled to do so for Lutri, the Spellchaser. It is a card unlike any other in Magic’s history. While we are firm believers in giving cards their opportunity in the format, it’s clear that Lutri would be banned almost immediately. It doesn’t have an opportunity cost; you don’t have to sacrifice a spot in the 100 in order to play it—meaning if you have the card and are playing the right colors, you can simply include it. It becomes a thing we’re not fans of, namely a “must play.” A big part of this decision is that we don’t want players to acquire the card thinking it might remain legal. There was consideration for letting it loose for a quarter with the likely plan to ban it later just in case it was as bad as we thought, because from where we sit, Lutri as a 101st card is intensely problematic. In the end, this is a special case, and we think that the conservative approach is the better option."
Firstly, I will not censor myself, they are free to delete it if they want. I wasn't calling anyone in specific a retard, just that is how the committee treats us as such.
So I can use the n-word as often as I like, so long as I'm not directing it at a specific person, and nobody should be offended? Is that how this works?
Well i guess i can't use the n-word to call my friends. sad face.
If you don't recall, Magic was originally designed as a "time-filler" for D&D players while they were either immersed or waiting between campaign actions (or something to that effect), so Magic is heavily influenced by those sorts of games that use dice and such only in a different way. The ability counters will be clunky yes but honestly it will help with the flow and strategic clarity of the game and allow for smoother moves rather than guesswork. And if you're worried about ability counters, that's what sealable snack bags are for. No biggie.
'buster
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from than nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
'buster
You already incorrect commander has far more confusing things than this
It’s almost nothing for commander they can deal with it no problem
If you don't recall, Magic was originally designed as a "time-filler" for D&D players while they were either immersed or waiting between campaign actions (or something to that effect), so Magic is heavily influenced by those sorts of games that use dice and such only in a different way. The ability counters will be clunky yes but honestly it will help with the flow and strategic clarity of the game and allow for smoother moves rather than guesswork. And if you're worried about ability counters, that's what sealable snack bags are for. No biggie.
'buster
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from than nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
'buster
People playing with Exert counters didn't seem too problematic, and it's I expect that in a serious game of Magic, if there's a creature with lots of different types of these counters on it, either the game will end in short order, or the creature will be dealt with, thus removing the counters from relevance either way.
If you don't recall, Magic was originally designed as a "time-filler" for D&D players while they were either immersed or waiting between campaign actions (or something to that effect), so Magic is heavily influenced by those sorts of games that use dice and such only in a different way. The ability counters will be clunky yes but honestly it will help with the flow and strategic clarity of the game and allow for smoother moves rather than guesswork. And if you're worried about ability counters, that's what sealable snack bags are for. No biggie.
'buster
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from than nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
'buster
I'm not making it trivial but rather making it seem somewhat more tolerable, at least for a game play memory sake. Again, like I said, the counters will be clunky but manageable. They're optional. Nothing says you have to use the counters. If you trust your own memory and that of your opponent, knock your socks off.
'buster
Not to be blithe, but this seems a little too easy for you each to dismiss without sharing my experiences. I can't say with 100% certainty that these mechanics will put Magic in the same spectrum as FFG (at least, not any more than you can say it won't), but I will say that this entire set very much feels like we're jumping the shark. Right here, right now, this very moment.
I'm not making it trivial but rather making it seem somewhat more tolerable, at least for a game play memory sake. Again, like I said, the counters will be clunky but manageable. They're optional. Nothing says you have to use the counters. If you trust your own memory and that of your opponent, knock your socks off.
'buster
You cant just not put +1/+1 counters on a card if it says it has them.
If counters are put on stuff you have to put actual counters on the card.
So thats one of the biggest deal breakers of this entire ability counter non-sense.
Yes, you dont have to use the paper stamp out garbage fillers, but if you use any other "counter" like a dice, thats even more confusing if multiple cards have different ability counters, in addition to +1/+1 counters.
Its a giant mess.
+1/+1 counters alone already make up for super annoying game play (ever played against a modern deck with lots of them ? yea its "super" fun ... not).
Having ability counters to track is mend to be a reminder helper, but its just annoying garbage flying around the table and polluting the place.
They did that with the "brick" counters and exhaust stamp out, and it was just as stupid of a mechanic to have around ...
At least players usually did not use the stamp out exhaust markers, and simply slide the card out of the sleeve to symbolize its exhausted ...
But all this is just working around the stones WotC throws in your way as a player, its not elegant design at all, its the total opposite and gets annoying very quickly.
First off: As a Kaiju afficionado and Toho fan...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH OMG THIS IS LIKE MY SET AND everything looks GOOD and the art is AMAZING and the mechanics are SWEET, and Holy Mother of Effing Urza GODZILLA!?
Second off: RC just ban companion as an ability and let people play the damn cute otter in the 99.
The mods can split topics, can't they? There's a LOT to unpack here, and a lot of good conversation we could be having about actual cards without being forced into the generally abandoned "New Card Discussion" sub-forum.
If you feel similarly, and want to have a conversation about how awesome the new Mothra card is (mechanically), or how bad the commanders are, please report this post and maybe we can get the mods' attention. Thank you.
I like when WotC steps out of the comfort zone, first war of the spark and now Ikoria are sets that are quite different to others,s tand out because of the mechanics and the limited formats will be fun and different.
IMHo Eldraine and Theros were quite powerful sets for standard, so it is nice to take a break from that kind of Magic design and see what happens when they go all in a "timmy" set with big creatures and over the top mechanics. Next set is Zendikar so I bet that would be more like normal sets.
I like when WotC steps out of the comfort zone, first war of the spark and now Ikoria are sets that are quite different to others,s tand out because of the mechanics and the limited formats will be fun and different.
IMHo Eldraine and Theros were quite powerful sets for standard, so it is nice to take a break from that kind of Magic design and see what happens when they go all in a "timmy" set with big creatures and over the top mechanics. Next set is Zendikar so I bet that would be more like normal sets.
Right, because Zendikar was calm and normal and not disruptive at all either other times we went there?
What was happening on the west coast in 2015-2017 that War of the Spark through this giant kiaju-turd of a set were the results? Did some awesome creative project steal away all the talent, was there something in the water?.....It wasn't even cannabis, that was legal in 2012.
Why make Lutri just to have it banned before play?
Par for the course these days, theres a strong disconnect between design for standard and impact on other formats. Theyve been okay banning cards if they have to. I personally dont agree with it and it makes cracking certain cards feel really bad but whatever i guess, wont impact sales at all
Honestly this set is...out there. Not bad, not good. Just out there. I say that because I have no bloody idea how it's going to play out across the various formats. As a Commander/EDH player I've been waiting for this set to fill out my last commander slot for a while. I'm just not sure if I'll bother. Mainly due to the fact, like others, my response to the set is just 'How is this gonna work?'. Not the most reassuring feeling in the world but who knows? I'm willing to take give a little faith.
On to the issue of Lutri, yeah, I'm not mad at anyone for banning that.
As for the new commanders, what's everyone feeling? I'm digging Kalamax and Kathril but can't decide which. On one hand, I already have a spellslinger deck in Kess but Kalamax does work very differently. I'm just scared it will turn into a weaker variation of a deck type I already have, ya know? As for Kathril, I see a lot of cool creature shenanigans with it and it's a style of play that no deck I currently use does.
I used to be an avid FFG fan... until I wasn't. I promise you, after not too long a time all those counters and cardboard gimmicks get super tiresome, and they're required for pretty much every one of their franchises. Until this very moment, Magic could be counted on as my safe haven from that nonsense. Trust me when I say that it's not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
'buster
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Do wolves whine and REEEEEE at wotc because bad RC stole their chance to play with their precious broken card?
You already incorrect commander has far more confusing things than this
It’s almost nothing for commander they can deal with it no problem
For companion i kinda don't like it being in a standard set.
So I can use the n-word as often as I like, so long as I'm not directing it at a specific person, and nobody should be offended? Is that how this works?
Using appropriate language in a family friendly space isn't self-censorship, it's just being a good person.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
People playing with Exert counters didn't seem too problematic, and it's I expect that in a serious game of Magic, if there's a creature with lots of different types of these counters on it, either the game will end in short order, or the creature will be dealt with, thus removing the counters from relevance either way.
We've had cards that permanently grant abilities (such as Riot cards). We have cards that change power and toughness constantly. We have entire decks built around +1/+1 counters, -1/-1 counters, loyalty counters, etc. We have cards that trigger at specific points on your turn and can be missed. We have had abilities that return stuff to play with a modified P/T. We have had formats with two different types of face down card, each with slightly different rules. We have over 20,000 unique cards.
Magic is a complicated game. Having a few tokens, which don't require memorization as some of the things I mention above, is not going to kill the game. Is this really more egregious than having a Narset or Teferi out and forgetting that you can't draw a second card or play at instant speed? I don't really think so.
I'm not making it trivial but rather making it seem somewhat more tolerable, at least for a game play memory sake. Again, like I said, the counters will be clunky but manageable. They're optional. Nothing says you have to use the counters. If you trust your own memory and that of your opponent, knock your socks off.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
This is making me laugh pretty hard NGL
Shards of awful never
"Updates and Community content
UPDATE
Banning Lutri, the Spellchaser
We’ve never banned a card before its street release date, but we feel strongly compelled to do so for Lutri, the Spellchaser. It is a card unlike any other in Magic’s history. While we are firm believers in giving cards their opportunity in the format, it’s clear that Lutri would be banned almost immediately. It doesn’t have an opportunity cost; you don’t have to sacrifice a spot in the 100 in order to play it—meaning if you have the card and are playing the right colors, you can simply include it. It becomes a thing we’re not fans of, namely a “must play.” A big part of this decision is that we don’t want players to acquire the card thinking it might remain legal. There was consideration for letting it loose for a quarter with the likely plan to ban it later just in case it was as bad as we thought, because from where we sit, Lutri as a 101st card is intensely problematic. In the end, this is a special case, and we think that the conservative approach is the better option."
Well i guess i can't use the n-word to call my friends. sad face.
Not to be blithe, but this seems a little too easy for you each to dismiss without sharing my experiences. I can't say with 100% certainty that these mechanics will put Magic in the same spectrum as FFG (at least, not any more than you can say it won't), but I will say that this entire set very much feels like we're jumping the shark. Right here, right now, this very moment.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
You cant just not put +1/+1 counters on a card if it says it has them.
If counters are put on stuff you have to put actual counters on the card.
So thats one of the biggest deal breakers of this entire ability counter non-sense.
Yes, you dont have to use the paper stamp out garbage fillers, but if you use any other "counter" like a dice, thats even more confusing if multiple cards have different ability counters, in addition to +1/+1 counters.
Its a giant mess.
+1/+1 counters alone already make up for super annoying game play (ever played against a modern deck with lots of them ? yea its "super" fun ... not).
Having ability counters to track is mend to be a reminder helper, but its just annoying garbage flying around the table and polluting the place.
They did that with the "brick" counters and exhaust stamp out, and it was just as stupid of a mechanic to have around ...
At least players usually did not use the stamp out exhaust markers, and simply slide the card out of the sleeve to symbolize its exhausted ...
But all this is just working around the stones WotC throws in your way as a player, its not elegant design at all, its the total opposite and gets annoying very quickly.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Second off: RC just ban companion as an ability and let people play the damn cute otter in the 99.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Who are you?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
If you feel similarly, and want to have a conversation about how awesome the new Mothra card is (mechanically), or how bad the commanders are, please report this post and maybe we can get the mods' attention. Thank you.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
IMHo Eldraine and Theros were quite powerful sets for standard, so it is nice to take a break from that kind of Magic design and see what happens when they go all in a "timmy" set with big creatures and over the top mechanics. Next set is Zendikar so I bet that would be more like normal sets.
Right, because Zendikar was calm and normal and not disruptive at all either other times we went there?
What was happening on the west coast in 2015-2017 that War of the Spark through this giant kiaju-turd of a set were the results? Did some awesome creative project steal away all the talent, was there something in the water?.....It wasn't even cannabis, that was legal in 2012.
Current EDH Decks:
Dakkon Blackblade 2WUUB
Par for the course these days, theres a strong disconnect between design for standard and impact on other formats. Theyve been okay banning cards if they have to. I personally dont agree with it and it makes cracking certain cards feel really bad but whatever i guess, wont impact sales at all
Current EDH Decks:
Dakkon Blackblade 2WUUB
They realized you can put it in any deck with izzet and it can loophole the 100 card rule and be 101
And it’s essentially and another dualcaster mage so any deck can use that
On to the issue of Lutri, yeah, I'm not mad at anyone for banning that.
As for the new commanders, what's everyone feeling? I'm digging Kalamax and Kathril but can't decide which. On one hand, I already have a spellslinger deck in Kess but Kalamax does work very differently. I'm just scared it will turn into a weaker variation of a deck type I already have, ya know? As for Kathril, I see a lot of cool creature shenanigans with it and it's a style of play that no deck I currently use does.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter