Damn. ForgottenPlaneswalker just dragged Xeruh to filth and left her weave out in the dirt!
Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment.
Also decided to take some time to translate the summary text from THB article, after the recap section, to see what the current summary of the story is like onto tweets.
In the following attachements we get something that doesn't even strain the character limit on twitter.
Popular things get more content, not less. Lol. What kind of warped perception of media do you have where you think less popular things are what get increased attention? That's why sequels and remakes are so common, because the original was popular and they try to build on that success (even if it usually fails).
That you disliked War of the Spark doesn't change the fact that it was a big deal. You... seem to have a very self centered way of viewing what should and shouldn't get attention. It's kind of weird that you think that the solution to War of the Spark was to do... absolutely nothing for it I guess. *shrugs* Weird, but irrelevant, not how companies work.
When her original death was in a world where the dead come back to life? Yeah, not a big deal. It was extremely obvious that it would happen, not a shock in the slightest.
Still eight years ago, acting like they're equivalent when they've had two major changes just to how they approach sets since then, let alone doing an entirely new way of approaching stories, let alone any number of things I could point out, it's pretty silly to treat them the same.
That isn't really how things tend to work. If things don't sell well they tend to stop making it, pretty straight forward. Given you think that being less popular means it should get more attention (must be why we've had all those sets to Kamigawa and Lorwyn) though it doesn't surprise me.
Damn. ForgottenPlaneswalker just dragged Xeruh to filth and left her weave out in the dirt!
Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment.
Also decided to take some time to translate the summary text from THB article, after the recap section, to see what the current summary of the story is like onto tweets.
In the following attachements we get something that doesn't even strain the character limit on twitter.
It was.
I can’t believe the lore has fallen to such a low. I mean no stories at all is rock bottom for Vorthos. Most MTG media sites reporting on this do fault the critical reception of Forsaken as they culprit (although do acknowledge other releases were well received) so that appears to be the consensus. It’s remarkable to me to even consider Weisman delivering another catastrophic blow to Vorthos by depriving us all of Theros lore with the books that soured the Bolas arc ending and so much more already. How much more is Vorthos intended to handle before moving on to other media? I wish more people would assist me in asking Maro why this is happening. I have inundated Blogatog with no acknowledgment whatsoever. Something is amiss. He’ll answer other questions I pose, but nothing about the novel.
The real question is, was one really written and shelved? Because as long as the author for this theoretical Theros novel is Wiesman again (doubt it) then that is a grave mistake. It’s as if they’re striving for more backlash.
I just can’t imagine with all the hype and discussion about Heliod’s morality, mono white philosophy, questions about Elspeth’s return and how her loss has shaped a Gatewatch member (Ajani) and all the pleading to see Ashiok in a story again... let alone the meddling pantheon of Greek gods, I just cannot understand how they wouldn’t plan a book for Theros, a set after Eldraine.
Popular things get more content, not less. Lol. What kind of warped perception of media do you have where you think less popular things are what get increased attention?
Lorwyn and Kamigawa are actually more popular planes than Ravnica, Innistrad, or Zendikar. BUt they don't get revisited weird.
That's why sequels and remakes are so common, because the original was popular and they try to build on that success (even if it usually fails).
Sucks to be Ravnica as while it sells well, the plane gets tossed through the ringer every time. Slavic cultural elements of its world being phased out, controversies ahoy (2.0 ravnica had this as well), the guilds feeling more blah-zay becaues they keep trying to rekindle the same 'lightning in a bottle' when Richard Garfield made it.
That you disliked War of the Spark doesn't change the fact that it was a big deal.
Defintely a big deal in the ways they don't like, especially when they have to put as an announcement regarding Chandra's sexuality and address, with tepidness, that she will have a whirlwind of romances. Yikes.
You... seem to have a very self centered way of viewing what should and shouldn't get attention.
I dunno, I find it weird how they get strongarmed into making a Return to Dominaria set when they know fans love that plane, that they couldn't just easily put a fancy little 'hat' on it like they do every other plane.
It's kind of weird that you think that the solution to War of the Spark was to do... absolutely nothing for it I guess. *shrugs* Weird, but irrelevant, not how companies work.
You're the one arguing that a less known plane deserves no story content.
When her original death was in a world where the dead come back to life? Yeah, not a big deal. It was extremely obvious that it would happen, not a shock in the slightest.
You mean how Elspeth is actually Erebos's favorite? That he even let her stay in the paradise known as Ilysia and he would have let her briefly return to the living if it meant Heliod actually died? That they didn't need to have a "OOPS! ALL DEAD ARE LEAKING OUT LOL".
Still eight years ago, acting like they're equivalent when they've had two major changes just to how they approach sets since then, let alone doing an entirely new way of approaching stories, let alone any number of things I could point out, it's pretty silly to treat them the same.
Got it, you want more people to have the memory of a goldfish.
That isn't really how things tend to work. If things don't sell well they tend to stop making it, pretty straight forward. Given you think that being less popular means it should get more attention (must be why we've had all those sets to Kamigawa and Lorwyn) though it doesn't surprise me.
Because Theros, Kamigawa, and Lorwyn are the most wanted planes from the community. Not Ravncia. Not Zendikar. Not Innistrad.
Honestly? I can only imagine you're trolling at this point. That you think that a company would purposefully not milk things for more money is... pretty absurd. Kamigawa and Lorwyn are far from the most popular planes, and honestly that makes it not really worth my time to skim the rest to see what else you came up with, just seems so silly.
Popular things get more content, not less. Lol. What kind of warped perception of media do you have where you think less popular things are what get increased attention?
Lorwyn and Kamigawa are actually more popular planes than Ravnica, Innistrad, or Zendikar. BUt they don't get revisited weird.
That's why sequels and remakes are so common, because the original was popular and they try to build on that success (even if it usually fails).
Sucks to be Ravnica as while it sells well, the plane gets tossed through the ringer every time. Slavic cultural elements of its world being phased out, controversies ahoy (2.0 ravnica had this as well), the guilds feeling more blah-zay becaues they keep trying to rekindle the same 'lightning in a bottle' when Richard Garfield made it.
First WotC gets data from questioning players and the overall reaction to Theros and Lorwyn (on release or a bit after) was negative, thats why Maro says Kamigawa and Lorwyn suffers from low popularity (mostly also from set mechanics and themes)(idk why they think tribal is a loved mechanic, after lorwyn)(but lorwyn was mostly because of world building: non humans and cartoonish art).
On release Ravnica (1.0 and 2.0) were a huge sucess, thats why everyone knows the guilds and says color combination by the guild name. Innistrad is one of the most popular planes(if you think it is not then maybe your tastes are not the norm neither represent the majority of mtg players). Zendikar before the BFZ fiasco was a very popular plane as well, Allies and quests+traps (the return in 2020 will probably have those mechanics).
Keep in mind WotC does not make market reseatch often for products that they think are failures (whenever someone says they don't like kamigawa because of low power level call those people and explain it for the good story and flavor instead of the lowpowered set (because of mirrodin)).
Damn. ForgottenPlaneswalker just dragged Xeruh to filth and left her weave out in the dirt!
Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment.
Also decided to take some time to translate the summary text from THB article, after the recap section, to see what the current summary of the story is like onto tweets.
In the following attachements we get something that doesn't even strain the character limit on twitter.
It was.
I can’t believe the lore has fallen to such a low. I mean no stories at all is rock bottom for Vorthos. Most MTG media sites reporting on this do fault the critical reception of Forsaken as they culprit (although do acknowledge other releases were well received) so that appears to be the consensus. It’s remarkable to me to even consider Weisman delivering another catastrophic blow to Vorthos by depriving us all of Theros lore with the books that soured the Bolas arc ending and so much more already. How much more is Vorthos intended to handle before moving on to other media? I wish more people would assist me in asking Maro why this is happening. I have inundated Blogatog with no acknowledgment whatsoever. Something is amiss. He’ll answer other questions I pose, but nothing about the novel.
I've tried asking simple questions to blogatog, I get nothing as well. I do see anything else being asked getting answered though such as talk of if there was any Lorwyn planeswalker and if we could get a Cinder as one, or about seeing Koth again on New Phyrexia, among other subjects.
Ikoria will now get to bear the burden of "Does it have novels or comics?". Story articles are out the window unless they changed policy. As if it has a glut of them is actually going to be just as bad as it having none at all.
Quote from Tiros of Meletis »
The real question is, was one really written and shelved? Because as long as the author for this theoretical Theros novel is Wiesman again (doubt it) then that is a grave mistake. It’s as if they’re striving for more backlash.
If it was written by Weisman is unknown. But if they come out and say they shelved the THB novel, even if it wasn't written by Weisman, they are going to get a large backlash for it.
Quote from Tiros of Meletis »
I just can’t imagine with all the hype and discussion about Heliod’s morality, mono white philosophy, questions about Elspeth’s return and how her loss has shaped a Gatewatch member (Ajani) and all the pleading to see Ashiok in a story again... let alone the meddling pantheon of Greek gods, I just cannot understand how they wouldn’t plan a book for Theros, a set after Eldraine.
Theros, a Greeco-Roman plane with the elements it has, can be actually be explored more than the surface level of Greek/Roman myth and culture and history, but I wonder if they are spooked by such a concept. As it would start deviating from the 'hat' it wears.
Quote from Xeruh »
Honestly? I can only imagine you're trolling at this point. That you think that a company would purposefully not milk things for more money is... pretty absurd. Kamigawa and Lorwyn are far from the most popular planes, and honestly that makes it not really worth my time to skim the rest to see what else you came up with, just seems so silly.
Xeruh...what are you trying to say? You justify Eldraine getting more content than Theros because Eldraine was new and unknown, but then also say that more content is for popular things? Then you try to reconcile that by claiming Theros wasn't actually popular, even though it totally was? That's the whole reason we're returning there, after all - they don't return to unpopular worlds. I legitimately don't get where you're coming from here.
For my part, I was keen for Theros in part because Ajani is the only character I even remotely care about right now, and given his ties to the plane it seemed like the best chance for him to get some real focus. Then again, he was reduced to practically nothing throughout the Bolas arc despite having real ties to Bolas, so I probably shouldn't have been hopeful, especially given how much WotC seems to be terrified of the idea of nonhuman characters.
Popular things get more content, not less. Lol. What kind of warped perception of media do you have where you think less popular things are what get increased attention?
Lorwyn and Kamigawa are actually more popular planes than Ravnica, Innistrad, or Zendikar. BUt they don't get revisited weird.
That's why sequels and remakes are so common, because the original was popular and they try to build on that success (even if it usually fails).
Sucks to be Ravnica as while it sells well, the plane gets tossed through the ringer every time. Slavic cultural elements of its world being phased out, controversies ahoy (2.0 ravnica had this as well), the guilds feeling more blah-zay becaues they keep trying to rekindle the same 'lightning in a bottle' when Richard Garfield made it.
First WotC gets data from questioning players and the overall reaction to Theros and Lorwyn (on release or a bit after) was negative, thats why Maro says Kamigawa and Lorwyn suffers from low popularity (mostly also from set mechanics and themes)(idk why they think tribal is a loved mechanic, after lorwyn)(but lorwyn was mostly because of world building: non humans and cartoonish art).
On release Ravnica (1.0 and 2.0) were a huge sucess, thats why everyone knows the guilds and says color combination by the guild name. Innistrad is one of the most popular planes(if you think it is not then maybe your tastes are not the norm neither represent the majority of mtg players). Zendikar before the BFZ fiasco was a very popular plane as well, Allies and quests+traps (the return in 2020 will probably have those mechanics).
Keep in mind WotC does not make market reseatch often for products that they think are failures (whenever someone says they don't like kamigawa because of low power level call those people and explain it for the good story and flavor instead of the lowpowered set (because of mirrodin)).
And ye, popular things gets remakes.
I get what you are saying with Lorwyn and Kamigawa polling badly from well over a decade ago, that I am aware of. But the thing is that MaRo has also had polls and talked about the retrospective reception, years later, for Lorwyn and Kamigawa actually becoming a lot of peoples favorites. That is also why I say that in terms of polls had, Innistrad/Ravncia/Zendikar actually poll lower in the popularity polls when the discussion is of "What planes would people like to revisit", and part of this is due to fatigue from the three big planes. Its why Theros/Lorwyn/Kamigawa are actually popularity winners compared to the more visited ones.
Wow Xerhu. Where are you getting these ideas from, Greg Weisman or D&D of season 8 Game of Thrones? No offense, but you’re way off the mark with what you’re suggesting on all of your points dude.
Popular things get more content, not less. Lol. What kind of warped perception of media do you have where you think less popular things are what get increased attention?
Lorwyn and Kamigawa are actually more popular planes than Ravnica, Innistrad, or Zendikar. BUt they don't get revisited weird.
That's why sequels and remakes are so common, because the original was popular and they try to build on that success (even if it usually fails).
Sucks to be Ravnica as while it sells well, the plane gets tossed through the ringer every time. Slavic cultural elements of its world being phased out, controversies ahoy (2.0 ravnica had this as well), the guilds feeling more blah-zay becaues they keep trying to rekindle the same 'lightning in a bottle' when Richard Garfield made it.
First WotC gets data from questioning players and the overall reaction to Theros and Lorwyn (on release or a bit after) was negative, thats why Maro says Kamigawa and Lorwyn suffers from low popularity (mostly also from set mechanics and themes)(idk why they think tribal is a loved mechanic, after lorwyn)(but lorwyn was mostly because of world building: non humans and cartoonish art).
On release Ravnica (1.0 and 2.0) were a huge sucess, thats why everyone knows the guilds and says color combination by the guild name. Innistrad is one of the most popular planes(if you think it is not then maybe your tastes are not the norm neither represent the majority of mtg players). Zendikar before the BFZ fiasco was a very popular plane as well, Allies and quests+traps (the return in 2020 will probably have those mechanics).
Keep in mind WotC does not make market reseatch often for products that they think are failures (whenever someone says they don't like kamigawa because of low power level call those people and explain it for the good story and flavor instead of the lowpowered set (because of mirrodin)).
And ye, popular things gets remakes.
I get what you are saying with Lorwyn and Kamigawa polling badly from well over a decade ago, that I am aware of. But the thing is that MaRo has also had polls and talked about the retrospective reception, years later, for Lorwyn and Kamigawa actually becoming a lot of peoples favorites. That is also why I say that in terms of polls had, Innistrad/Ravncia/Zendikar actually poll lower in the popularity polls when the discussion is of "What planes would people like to revisit", and part of this is due to fatigue from the three big planes. Its why Theros/Lorwyn/Kamigawa are actually popularity winners compared to the more visited ones.
The polls MaRo has done on social media are not representative samples— they have uncontrolled selection bias for more experienced players, who, I think it's safe to say, are more likely to be fatigued by popular recurring planes in such a way as you describe. Despite this, MaRo has also conducted other polls of people's favourite planes than the one Lorwyn one, and Innistrad, Ravnica and Zendikar are all in the top brackets and Theros, Kamigawa and Lorwyn are not.
There isn't extensive data— certainly not that we can review ourselves, so we don't know for certain, but as far as we do know, Innistrad, Ravnica and Zendikar are still among the most popular planes.
Theros, of course, still has plenty of fans, so this isn't much of a reason not to do any lore for it, but the point remains.
Wow Xerhu. Where are you getting these ideas from, Greg Weisman or D&D of season 8 Game of Thrones? No offense, but you’re way off the mark with what you’re suggesting on all of your points dude.
Speaking of that IP, fun factoid: Martin had to re-release the first book several times into the market for it to gain any amount of traction at all. And by traction I mean a cult-following. As for that series to be a household name it is now is mostly due in part to the show. Which also got destroyed with its season 8 as the writers didn't want to continue writing for it and wanted a Star Wars deal instead.
Quote from DJK3654 »
The polls MaRo has done on social media are not representative samples— they have uncontrolled selection bias for more experienced players, who, I think it's safe to say, are more likely to be fatigued by popular recurring planes in such a way as you describe. Despite this, MaRo has also conducted other polls of people's favourite planes than the one Lorwyn one, and Innistrad, Ravnica and Zendikar are all in the top brackets and Theros, Kamigawa and Lorwyn are not.
There isn't extensive data— certainly not that we can review ourselves, so we don't know for certain, but as far as we do know, Innistrad, Ravnica and Zendikar are still among the most popular planes.
Theros, of course, still has plenty of fans, so this isn't much of a reason not to do any lore for it, but the point remains.
Two different polls with different results. How shocking.
Also everything we do is with bias. Literally my bias is that Odyssey/Onslaught/Timespiral is some of the best writing in MTG and my favorites. I even put that as part of my BIO on twitter.
From all stuff said and talked about the top planes are Dominaria, Innistrad and Ravnica. That said as a world and flavor Theros did really well and Maro gave it a 3 on his scale of most likely to return planes. Only the bigger 3 and Zendikar are likely to return.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
From all stuff said and talked about the top planes are Dominaria, Innistrad and Ravnica. That said as a world and flavor Theros did really well and Maro gave it a 3 on his scale of most likely to return planes. Only the bigger 3 and Zendikar are likely to return.
Since its a 3 on the storm scale, they would want to prop-up Theros. Its a good seller, popular, and had easy to reintroduce mechanics with heroic and constellation. Which I feel is more the baffling part about there being not even a novel tied-in for it.
Given the poor quality of basically everything written for the lore in the recent years, why is it a shock to anyone that this is happening? Maybe disappointing but not surprising - also, what could would another poorly written piece (or set of stories) be anyway?
Wow Xerhu. Where are you getting these ideas from, Greg Weisman or D&D of season 8 Game of Thrones? No offense, but you’re way off the mark with what you’re suggesting on all of your points dude.
Speaking of that IP, fun factoid: Martin had to re-release the first book several times into the market for it to gain any amount of traction at all. And by traction I mean a cult-following. As for that series to be a household name it is now is mostly due in part to the show. Which also got destroyed with its season 8 as the writers didn't want to continue writing for it and wanted a Star Wars deal instead.
Quote from DJK3654 »
The polls MaRo has done on social media are not representative samples— they have uncontrolled selection bias for more experienced players, who, I think it's safe to say, are more likely to be fatigued by popular recurring planes in such a way as you describe. Despite this, MaRo has also conducted other polls of people's favourite planes than the one Lorwyn one, and Innistrad, Ravnica and Zendikar are all in the top brackets and Theros, Kamigawa and Lorwyn are not.
There isn't extensive data— certainly not that we can review ourselves, so we don't know for certain, but as far as we do know, Innistrad, Ravnica and Zendikar are still among the most popular planes.
Theros, of course, still has plenty of fans, so this isn't much of a reason not to do any lore for it, but the point remains.
Two different polls with different results. How shocking.
Well, you cited Mark Rosewater's polls as evidence. It's pretty damn relevant that he's done other polls on the same subject with conflicting results.
Also everything we do is with bias. Literally my bias is that Odyssey/Onslaught/Timespiral is some of the best writing in MTG and my favorites. I even put that as part of my BIO on twitter.
Yes, everybody has biases. That's...that's what statistics is for— to attempt to get objective. unbiased data. That's why it's a foundation of the scientific method. "Everybody has biases" is a fact directly in favour of using representative sampling methods.
EDIT: While we're at it, I might as well include that MaRo's twitter polls not only are biased towards a more enfranchised audience, but that type of polling suffers from being purely opt-in— as no one is obligated in any way to respond, which is well known to bias results, mainly toward more empassioned, more extreme opinions.
Also just for a lark: Look at the Dominaria Vs Ravnica section. Dominaria (65%), Ravncia (64%), but Ravnica advances.
You've misread the graph. Those percentages are for the win in the previous bracket not for the vote in the following. That's why none of the planes have percentage values in the first line and the winning plane in the final line does have one.
When I said his polls, I didn't mean this 'head-to-head' nonsense. But alright lets have a proper lark at this poll.
Regatha vs Ravnica, Ravnica winning with 89%. Most people don't know what the heck Regatha is, so putting Ravnica next to it is dubious.
Kamigawa vs New Phyrexia, New Phyrexia only winning by 57%. Seems pretty close.
Dominaria vs Vryn, Dominaria winning with 79%. Another dubious one. As we have never visited Vryn proper.
Theros vs Kaladesh, Theros winning with 61%. I seem to recall others were saying that Theros was not as popular.
Zendikar vs Rath, Zendikar winning with 74%. I don't know why Mark put Dominaria twice in this poll.
Tarkir vs, Alara, Alara winning with 53%. Which is almost a coinflip.
Shandalar vs Innistrad, Innistrad winning with 83%. See the 'Ravnica vs Regatha' comment.
Mirrodin vs Shadowmoor-Lorwyn, S-L winning by 56%. Aside from being close just like 'New Phyrexia Vs Kamigawa' one, this is a joke right? In the same vein as the 'Zendikar vs Rath' one.
Regatha vs Ravnica, Ravnica winning with 89%. Most people don't know what the heck Regatha is, so putting Ravnica next to it is dubious.
Kamigawa vs New Phyrexia, New Phyrexia only winning by 57%. Seems pretty close.
Dominaria vs Vryn, Dominaria winning with 79%. Another dubious one. As we have never visited Vryn proper.
Theros vs Kaladesh, Theros winning with 61%. I seem to recall others were saying that Theros was not as popular.
Zendikar vs Rath, Zendikar winning with 74%. I don't know why Mark put Dominaria twice in this poll.
Tarkir vs, Alara, Alara winning with 53%. Which is almost a coinflip.
Shandalar vs Innistrad, Innistrad winning with 83%. See the 'Ravnica vs Regatha' comment.
Mirrodin vs Shadowmoor-Lorwyn, S-L winning by 56%. Aside from being close just like 'New Phyrexia Vs Kamigawa' one, this is a joke right? In the same vein as the 'Zendikar vs Rath' one.
The reason a number of the early brackets are disparate is because that's intentional. If you were to put the most competetive choices together in brackets, it would biases the results in favour of less competetive choices because you would eliminate some of the more popular choices before they have a chance to compete against the less popular ones. https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/175440856418/how-do-you-decide-the-bracketing-for-head-to-head
Any which way you do it though, bracketing like this is not a very representative survey method as it will always bias results based on bracketing choices which resrict competetition between all of the different options.
Regatha vs Ravnica, Ravnica winning with 89%. Most people don't know what the heck Regatha is, so putting Ravnica next to it is dubious.
Kamigawa vs New Phyrexia, New Phyrexia only winning by 57%. Seems pretty close.
Dominaria vs Vryn, Dominaria winning with 79%. Another dubious one. As we have never visited Vryn proper.
Theros vs Kaladesh, Theros winning with 61%. I seem to recall others were saying that Theros was not as popular.
Zendikar vs Rath, Zendikar winning with 74%. I don't know why Mark put Dominaria twice in this poll.
Tarkir vs, Alara, Alara winning with 53%. Which is almost a coinflip.
Shandalar vs Innistrad, Innistrad winning with 83%. See the 'Ravnica vs Regatha' comment.
Mirrodin vs Shadowmoor-Lorwyn, S-L winning by 56%. Aside from being close just like 'New Phyrexia Vs Kamigawa' one, this is a joke right? In the same vein as the 'Zendikar vs Rath' one.
The reason a number of the early brackets are disparate is because that's intentional. If you were to put the most competetive choices together in brackets, it would biases the results in favour of less competetive choices because you would eliminate some of the more popular choices before they have a chance to compete against the less popular ones. https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/175440856418/how-do-you-decide-the-bracketing-for-head-to-head
Any which way you do it though, bracketing like this is not a very representative survey method as it will always bias results based on bracketing choices which resrict competetition between all of the different options.
the free for all style where people just literally submitted what they wanted to see and there was no "Vote for X or Vote for Y". But I see you aren't commenting on the two instances of dominaria and the two instances of new phyrexia in there.
Might as well have another section in that bracket that reads: "Zhalfir Vs Argentum".
I feel like it needs to be mentioned that planes being "popular" or "unpopular" is not a binary thing - it's a scale. No, Theros is not as popular as Ravnica, but that doesn't mean it isn't popular.
People arguing that Theros, Kamigawa and Lorwyn is as popular as Ravnica are off their rocker.
Honestly i don't get what they think will gain from such sterile and toxic discussion.
The whole level of toxicity is quite fun actually, considering it's probably what convinced wotc to cancel the novel in the first place
wotc: release a bad novel
mtg community: instead of providing constructive criticism, spam "biphobia! biphobia!" on every wotc channel, especially the unrelated ones (like secret lair announcements)
wotc: decided to not release novels anymore
mtg community: *surprised pikachu*, more toxicity
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Regatha vs Ravnica, Ravnica winning with 89%. Most people don't know what the heck Regatha is, so putting Ravnica next to it is dubious.
Kamigawa vs New Phyrexia, New Phyrexia only winning by 57%. Seems pretty close.
Dominaria vs Vryn, Dominaria winning with 79%. Another dubious one. As we have never visited Vryn proper.
Theros vs Kaladesh, Theros winning with 61%. I seem to recall others were saying that Theros was not as popular.
Zendikar vs Rath, Zendikar winning with 74%. I don't know why Mark put Dominaria twice in this poll.
Tarkir vs, Alara, Alara winning with 53%. Which is almost a coinflip.
Shandalar vs Innistrad, Innistrad winning with 83%. See the 'Ravnica vs Regatha' comment.
Mirrodin vs Shadowmoor-Lorwyn, S-L winning by 56%. Aside from being close just like 'New Phyrexia Vs Kamigawa' one, this is a joke right? In the same vein as the 'Zendikar vs Rath' one.
The reason a number of the early brackets are disparate is because that's intentional. If you were to put the most competetive choices together in brackets, it would biases the results in favour of less competetive choices because you would eliminate some of the more popular choices before they have a chance to compete against the less popular ones. https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/175440856418/how-do-you-decide-the-bracketing-for-head-to-head
Any which way you do it though, bracketing like this is not a very representative survey method as it will always bias results based on bracketing choices which resrict competetition between all of the different options.
the free for all style where people just literally submitted what they wanted to see and there was no "Vote for X or Vote for Y".
You're going to need a link, or at least a better description.
But I see you aren't commenting on the two instances of dominaria and the two instances of new phyrexia in there.
Might as well have another section in that bracket that reads: "Zhalfir Vs Argentum".
New Phyrexia and Mirrodin are seperate for a good reason: they would be different sets with different fanbases. Rath is a separate plane, it just got merged with Dominaria; theoretically it could be separated again. Whether or not either of them *should* be separate options is rather subjective.
People arguing that Theros, Kamigawa and Lorwyn is as popular as Ravnica are off their rocker.
Honestly i don't get what they think will gain from such sterile and toxic discussion.
The whole level of toxicity is quite fun actually, considering it's probably what convinced wotc to cancel the novel in the first place
wotc: release a bad novel
mtg community: instead of providing constructive criticism, spam "biphobia! biphobia!" on every wotc channel, especially the unrelated ones (like secret lair announcements)
wotc: decided to not release novels anymore
mtg community: *surprised pikachu*, more toxicity
In all fairness, there was a lot more constructive criticism of the first book. The cries of biphobia and erasure only started with the release of the second book, several months later (and which had many of the same problems as the first beside).
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|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Also decided to take some time to translate the summary text from THB article, after the recap section, to see what the current summary of the story is like onto tweets.
In the following attachements we get something that doesn't even strain the character limit on twitter.
That you disliked War of the Spark doesn't change the fact that it was a big deal. You... seem to have a very self centered way of viewing what should and shouldn't get attention. It's kind of weird that you think that the solution to War of the Spark was to do... absolutely nothing for it I guess. *shrugs* Weird, but irrelevant, not how companies work.
When her original death was in a world where the dead come back to life? Yeah, not a big deal. It was extremely obvious that it would happen, not a shock in the slightest.
Still eight years ago, acting like they're equivalent when they've had two major changes just to how they approach sets since then, let alone doing an entirely new way of approaching stories, let alone any number of things I could point out, it's pretty silly to treat them the same.
That isn't really how things tend to work. If things don't sell well they tend to stop making it, pretty straight forward. Given you think that being less popular means it should get more attention (must be why we've had all those sets to Kamigawa and Lorwyn) though it doesn't surprise me.
I can’t believe the lore has fallen to such a low. I mean no stories at all is rock bottom for Vorthos. Most MTG media sites reporting on this do fault the critical reception of Forsaken as they culprit (although do acknowledge other releases were well received) so that appears to be the consensus. It’s remarkable to me to even consider Weisman delivering another catastrophic blow to Vorthos by depriving us all of Theros lore with the books that soured the Bolas arc ending and so much more already. How much more is Vorthos intended to handle before moving on to other media? I wish more people would assist me in asking Maro why this is happening. I have inundated Blogatog with no acknowledgment whatsoever. Something is amiss. He’ll answer other questions I pose, but nothing about the novel.
The real question is, was one really written and shelved? Because as long as the author for this theoretical Theros novel is Wiesman again (doubt it) then that is a grave mistake. It’s as if they’re striving for more backlash.
I just can’t imagine with all the hype and discussion about Heliod’s morality, mono white philosophy, questions about Elspeth’s return and how her loss has shaped a Gatewatch member (Ajani) and all the pleading to see Ashiok in a story again... let alone the meddling pantheon of Greek gods, I just cannot understand how they wouldn’t plan a book for Theros, a set after Eldraine.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Sucks to be Ravnica as while it sells well, the plane gets tossed through the ringer every time. Slavic cultural elements of its world being phased out, controversies ahoy (2.0 ravnica had this as well), the guilds feeling more blah-zay becaues they keep trying to rekindle the same 'lightning in a bottle' when Richard Garfield made it.
Defintely a big deal in the ways they don't like, especially when they have to put as an announcement regarding Chandra's sexuality and address, with tepidness, that she will have a whirlwind of romances. Yikes.
I dunno, I find it weird how they get strongarmed into making a Return to Dominaria set when they know fans love that plane, that they couldn't just easily put a fancy little 'hat' on it like they do every other plane.
You're the one arguing that a less known plane deserves no story content.
You mean how Elspeth is actually Erebos's favorite? That he even let her stay in the paradise known as Ilysia and he would have let her briefly return to the living if it meant Heliod actually died? That they didn't need to have a "OOPS! ALL DEAD ARE LEAKING OUT LOL".
Got it, you want more people to have the memory of a goldfish.
Because Theros, Kamigawa, and Lorwyn are the most wanted planes from the community. Not Ravncia. Not Zendikar. Not Innistrad.
First WotC gets data from questioning players and the overall reaction to Theros and Lorwyn (on release or a bit after) was negative, thats why Maro says Kamigawa and Lorwyn suffers from low popularity (mostly also from set mechanics and themes)(idk why they think tribal is a loved mechanic, after lorwyn)(but lorwyn was mostly because of world building: non humans and cartoonish art).
On release Ravnica (1.0 and 2.0) were a huge sucess, thats why everyone knows the guilds and says color combination by the guild name. Innistrad is one of the most popular planes(if you think it is not then maybe your tastes are not the norm neither represent the majority of mtg players). Zendikar before the BFZ fiasco was a very popular plane as well, Allies and quests+traps (the return in 2020 will probably have those mechanics).
Keep in mind WotC does not make market reseatch often for products that they think are failures (whenever someone says they don't like kamigawa because of low power level call those people and explain it for the good story and flavor instead of the lowpowered set (because of mirrodin)).
And ye, popular things gets remakes.
Ikoria will now get to bear the burden of "Does it have novels or comics?". Story articles are out the window unless they changed policy. As if it has a glut of them is actually going to be just as bad as it having none at all.
If it was written by Weisman is unknown. But if they come out and say they shelved the THB novel, even if it wasn't written by Weisman, they are going to get a large backlash for it.
Theros, a Greeco-Roman plane with the elements it has, can be actually be explored more than the surface level of Greek/Roman myth and culture and history, but I wonder if they are spooked by such a concept. As it would start deviating from the 'hat' it wears.
I'm not a clackbridge troll, checkmate melvin.
For my part, I was keen for Theros in part because Ajani is the only character I even remotely care about right now, and given his ties to the plane it seemed like the best chance for him to get some real focus. Then again, he was reduced to practically nothing throughout the Bolas arc despite having real ties to Bolas, so I probably shouldn't have been hopeful, especially given how much WotC seems to be terrified of the idea of nonhuman characters.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The polls MaRo has done on social media are not representative samples— they have uncontrolled selection bias for more experienced players, who, I think it's safe to say, are more likely to be fatigued by popular recurring planes in such a way as you describe. Despite this, MaRo has also conducted other polls of people's favourite planes than the one Lorwyn one, and Innistrad, Ravnica and Zendikar are all in the top brackets and Theros, Kamigawa and Lorwyn are not.
There isn't extensive data— certainly not that we can review ourselves, so we don't know for certain, but as far as we do know, Innistrad, Ravnica and Zendikar are still among the most popular planes.
Theros, of course, still has plenty of fans, so this isn't much of a reason not to do any lore for it, but the point remains.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Two different polls with different results. How shocking.
Also everything we do is with bias. Literally my bias is that Odyssey/Onslaught/Timespiral is some of the best writing in MTG and my favorites. I even put that as part of my BIO on twitter.
https://twitter.com/FPlaneswalker
Also just for a lark: Look at the Dominaria Vs Ravnica section. Dominaria (65%), Ravncia (64%), but Ravnica advances.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well, you cited Mark Rosewater's polls as evidence. It's pretty damn relevant that he's done other polls on the same subject with conflicting results.
Yes, everybody has biases. That's...that's what statistics is for— to attempt to get objective. unbiased data. That's why it's a foundation of the scientific method. "Everybody has biases" is a fact directly in favour of using representative sampling methods.
EDIT: While we're at it, I might as well include that MaRo's twitter polls not only are biased towards a more enfranchised audience, but that type of polling suffers from being purely opt-in— as no one is obligated in any way to respond, which is well known to bias results, mainly toward more empassioned, more extreme opinions.
You've misread the graph. Those percentages are for the win in the previous bracket not for the vote in the following. That's why none of the planes have percentage values in the first line and the winning plane in the final line does have one.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Regatha vs Ravnica, Ravnica winning with 89%. Most people don't know what the heck Regatha is, so putting Ravnica next to it is dubious.
Kamigawa vs New Phyrexia, New Phyrexia only winning by 57%. Seems pretty close.
Dominaria vs Vryn, Dominaria winning with 79%. Another dubious one. As we have never visited Vryn proper.
Theros vs Kaladesh, Theros winning with 61%. I seem to recall others were saying that Theros was not as popular.
Zendikar vs Rath, Zendikar winning with 74%. I don't know why Mark put Dominaria twice in this poll.
Tarkir vs, Alara, Alara winning with 53%. Which is almost a coinflip.
Shandalar vs Innistrad, Innistrad winning with 83%. See the 'Ravnica vs Regatha' comment.
Mirrodin vs Shadowmoor-Lorwyn, S-L winning by 56%. Aside from being close just like 'New Phyrexia Vs Kamigawa' one, this is a joke right? In the same vein as the 'Zendikar vs Rath' one.
What polls where you referring to then?
The reason a number of the early brackets are disparate is because that's intentional. If you were to put the most competetive choices together in brackets, it would biases the results in favour of less competetive choices because you would eliminate some of the more popular choices before they have a chance to compete against the less popular ones.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/175440856418/how-do-you-decide-the-bracketing-for-head-to-head
Any which way you do it though, bracketing like this is not a very representative survey method as it will always bias results based on bracketing choices which resrict competetition between all of the different options.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Might as well have another section in that bracket that reads: "Zhalfir Vs Argentum".
Current EDH Decks:
Dakkon Blackblade 2WUUB
Honestly i don't get what they think will gain from such sterile and toxic discussion.
The whole level of toxicity is quite fun actually, considering it's probably what convinced wotc to cancel the novel in the first place
wotc: release a bad novel
mtg community: instead of providing constructive criticism, spam "biphobia! biphobia!" on every wotc channel, especially the unrelated ones (like secret lair announcements)
wotc: decided to not release novels anymore
mtg community: *surprised pikachu*, more toxicity
You're going to need a link, or at least a better description.
New Phyrexia and Mirrodin are seperate for a good reason: they would be different sets with different fanbases. Rath is a separate plane, it just got merged with Dominaria; theoretically it could be separated again. Whether or not either of them *should* be separate options is rather subjective.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice