I really hope they do at least one vanilla black cheap creature with an alternative escape cost.. something like CMC 1, 2/1, and the escape cost as "discard two cards, exile two other cards".
They've never even printed a B 2/1 without a downside, and you expect they'll suddenly print one with an huge upside and no downside?
While they may have never printed a 2/1 for B with strictly all upside, they have printed many, many 2/1 for B with upsides and usually-small downsides (like enters tapped or can't block). I wouldn't even call "discard two cards and exile two cards to revive this" a huge upside or anything. We get a "2/1 for B that comes back to life" nearly every couple of sets now. Gutterbones, Dread Wanderer, Bloodsoaked Champion, Gravecrawler... notice a trend? The cards tend to use or link into a mechanic of the set. So I'd say an escaping 2/1 for B is actually quite possible, but yeah, it would probably enter the battlefield tapped.
Note also that original Theros block had two 2/1s for a single B, each with upsides, and only just the "enters tapped" or "can't block" downside.
I absolutely love Elspeth she was my first walker after I got back into the game as I played many years before they even had walkers. But I do not like this one, I know she had a bad fate but I was kinda hoping for a B/W walker version of her, while I am happy she is still mono white the actual mechanics of the card I do not like.
I really hope they do at least one vanilla black cheap creature with an alternative escape cost.. something like CMC 1, 2/1, and the escape cost as "discard two cards, exile two other cards".
They've never even printed a B 2/1 without a downside, and you expect they'll suddenly print one with an huge upside and no downside?
While they may have never printed a 2/1 for B with strictly all upside, they have printed many, many 2/1 for B with upsides and usually-small downsides (like enters tapped or can't block). I wouldn't even call "discard two cards and exile two cards to revive this" a huge upside or anything. We get a "2/1 for B that comes back to life" nearly every couple of sets now. Gutterbones, Dread Wanderer, Bloodsoaked Champion, Gravecrawler... notice a trend? The cards tend to use or link into a mechanic of the set. So I'd say an escaping 2/1 for B is actually quite possible, but yeah, it would probably enter the battlefield tapped.
Note also that original Theros block had two 2/1s for a single B, each with upsides, and only just the "enters tapped" or "can't block" downside.
Yes, my friend, I noticed this pattern long time ago... and, if you count the 1/* for B that return from graveyard, we had Sanitarium Skeleton from Shadows over Innistrad reprinted in M20 recentrly, and Cauldron Familiar from Throne of Eldraine just yesterday.
The pattern really seems to be in a way that the 2 points os power come with some downside like ETB or can't block... cause the 1/* for B creatures that return to the battlefield really have no downside attached to this mechanic. Cauldron Familiar even have another ability that can be considered a great upside.. it really doesn't need the second point of power cause when it ETB opponent's life goes down by one.
It is really possible that we can get a 2/1 for B creature with Escape. The question is at what escape cost and how good/bad we think an alternative cost like "discard two cards and exile two others cards" is. For the majority of the decks, discard two cards is a huge downside... but when you need enablers that act from graveyard... this is a huge upside.
this is just a minor complaint... i wish the escape cards had something like the flashback symbol so i could find them easier.
The original intent was to put that gravestone on all cards that had an effect while in the graveyard but when the card frame changed they didn't think through where to put it and when they brought back flashback they hadn't found a clean solution. They have since decided that graveyard effects don't happen often enough to force players to learn a new symbol.
I personally think this is a mistake as it would make all future graveyard card easier to understand.
The original intent was to put that gravestone on all cards that had an effect while in the graveyard but when the card frame changed they didn't think through where to put it and when they brought back flashback they hadn't found a clean solution. They have since decided that graveyard effects don't happen often enough to force players to learn a new symbol.
I personally think this is a mistake as it would make all future graveyard card easier to understand.
They frankly mess with cards in a way that makes them incredible confusing.
All the super different layouts (like Saga) require you to understand what the card does before you even read it, otherwise the mechanic explains nothing.
The graveyard symbol was decent to quickly identify a card as something that is relevant in the graveyard , aka flashback , or a Genesis / Wonder.
Especially in formats in which the graveyard order is relevant you couldnt just re-arrange your graveyard, which made this even more useful.
Anyway, its a thing you also need to know what it means, as the symbol does not explain itself very intuitive.
If a symbol requires such knowledge, its really not helpful for a newbie, its just more confusing to cluster a card full of symbols you need to learn the meaning of.
Frankly, manasymbols and the like do the same, but you really want to limit it.
At some point in Portal they put sword/shield symbols on power/thoughness, which is just overkill.
----
Having a different frame for effects is still a good idea.
Miracle cards look different, so you notice it has miracle ; thats a good thing, even if it is again something you first need to know and learn, so you can notice it for what it means in the first place.
----
Useful symbols can be good, but having too many of them is just making things worse.
Why would you be able to find a booster pack... the set isn't even released.
The store made mistake and put them on the shelves early.
for anyone who hasn't figured this out yet, the "store put it on the shelves early" story is literally impossible and this person just got some stolen packs/cards from one of the printing companies.
Is it just me or is Escape oddly similar to Delve and Dredge—two mechanics that didn’t really work out in the past for WotC. What makes escape a better idea?
Is it just me or is Escape oddly similar to Delve and Dredge—two mechanics that didn’t really work out in the past for WotC. What makes escape a better idea?
No, it has almost no similarities with either of those abilities. It is very much like flashback or unearth except its permanent. I can understand why you see a similarity where none exists and that is because the escape card we see has a cost that resembles delve. However, the ability escape has no relationship. Look at the actual ability Escape-{cost}(You may cast this from your graveyard for its escape cost). It reads almost exactly like flashback, Flashback-{Cost}(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.) While Delve is a cost reduction mechanic that eats your graveyard like Elspeth's escape cost but there is no intrinsic link between escape and exiling cards from your graveyard. As for Dredge, there is the small similarity of both being methods of getting the card out of the graveyard, however, their execution is radically different. Dredge returns the card to hand both making you have to spend further resources to cast it again and giving you additional options by it being in your hand.
When will we find out more about the upcoming Theros novel and hope to begin seeing official spoilers? I hope we don’t have to wait until around or after Christmas... if it releases January 17 for prerelease id expect the second week of December?
When will we find out more about the upcoming Theros novel and hope to begin seeing official spoilers? I hope we don’t have to wait until around or after Christmas... if it releases January 17 for prerelease id expect the second week of December?
I'm becoming increasingly worried that there will be no story. Forsaken was announced a full month before it was released and The Wildered Quest was announced 2 months before it was released. With no announcement yet and barely more than a month before release and the Christmas break looming the odds are not looking good. Hopefully, I'm just paranoid and we'll hear something this or next week. After that I assume there is either nothing or it's going to be extremely small and well after the set releases.
Is it just me or is Escape oddly similar to Delve and Dredge—two mechanics that didn’t really work out in the past for WotC. What makes escape a better idea?
No, it has almost no similarities with either of those abilities. It is very much like flashback or unearth except its permanent. I can understand why you see a similarity where none exists and that is because the escape card we see has a cost that resembles delve. However, the ability escape has no relationship. Look at the actual ability Escape-{cost}(You may cast this from your graveyard for its escape cost). It reads almost exactly like flashback, Flashback-{Cost}(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.) While Delve is a cost reduction mechanic that eats your graveyard like Elspeth's escape cost but there is no intrinsic link between escape and exiling cards from your graveyard. As for Dredge, there is the small similarity of both being methods of getting the card out of the graveyard, however, their execution is radically different. Dredge returns the card to hand both making you have to spend further resources to cast it again and giving you additional options by it being in your hand.
Also, dredge's "cost" is too-easily turned into an asset (filling your graveyard etc) while escape actually eats further into your resources. It is creature flashback, and flashback is both incredibly popular and safe.
Well it is similar to dredge and delve in that its a graveyard mechanic. The problem with dredge isn't casting the cards, though. It's that it lets you bypass mana and pay for milling with card draws.
The problem with delve is it's nearly unbounded cost reduction.
This both costs mana and graveyard real estate. It isn't cutting into the price in a dangerous way. It's just making the cards not cost something stupid like a certain boros angel back in the day that cost something like 6 and 10 to recast so it wouldn't warp standard/limited. Infact I will be surprised if there's more than maybe 1 of these that is, say, modern playable.
Well, I’ve emailed and asked maro numerous times on Blogatog
If Theros will have a story and I suspect it’s not a question he can answer now, sadly. This does concern me as I’ve been eagerly awaiting the continuation of Godsend lore
Reviewing the spoiled cards again, as I'm working on a cube project, I noticed these have a fairly low power level. I just personally hope this is just a small selection and its actually really good and we don't have a Born of the Gods 2.0 for power.
Reviewing the spoiled cards again, as I'm working on a cube project, I noticed these have a fairly low power level. I just personally hope this is just a small selection and its actually really good and we don't have a Born of the Gods 2.0 for power.
I was ready to disagree, but looking back, you're kinda right. Even in a weaker (mostly) peasant cube, there's not a lot going on here. I have an enchantment theme that I really want to add some payoff to, but despite loads of enchantments, few of them are really worth looking at. There are lots of cards with constellation,but all the payoff basically amounts to a small one-turn advantage, like "tap target creature" or "flying until end of turn". The "gain 2 life" guy is the only one worth recurring Flickering Ward for.
Likewise, I play a major graveyard theme, and the escape cards we've seen tend to be mediocre at best. The spider's not terrible, and the 4/4 that becomes a 7/7 is good for a common, but nothing is really worth bringing to the cube forum. Even for the B-listers like myself, there's not much to talk about.
That Narcissus guy is interesting... probably not good, but interesting if you can get value out of the fact of the two bodies. Of course you'd have to be taking advantage of the high stats to make it as good as Eldrazi Skyspawner.
Elspeth does do some interesting stuff for cube: she supports the graveyard in white (the weakest graveyard color), and does so in a planeswalker slot. She also produces two bodies at once to support swarm strategies. Her -1 and -2 make her a playable curve-topper in aggro. The life gain will occasionally save you when the other things wouldn't, and control can sorta use her as a recursive value engine. She's not as outright powerful as several other white planeswalkers, but she fills several different roles, which I personally prefer over power. She'd be a great add for my big cube, but too powerful for my mostly-peasant. She's not gonna stand a chance with the high-power cubers.
Still, this is a totally random sampling, and there are always lots of cards of this power level. Mechanics wise, I like where the set is going.
I do like where this set is going as well based on the small sample size. So far the most interesting of the bunch for my cube are the sagas, as I'm filling it with things like sagas, adventures, music.
My thoughts were caused mostly by the non-enchantment creatures with constellation, such as the setessan skirmisher feeling like a weaker oakheart dryads, but even the enchantment creatures with constellation also have a weaker feel to them. As I noticed my cube was naturally having an enchantment subtheme, so things like eidolon of blossoms or dreadbringer lampads for example made sense. While these new constellations feel more, selfish, to say the least.
I do hope its just a small cycle and there is actually a cycle of altruistic constellation creatures.
While they may have never printed a 2/1 for B with strictly all upside, they have printed many, many 2/1 for B with upsides and usually-small downsides (like enters tapped or can't block). I wouldn't even call "discard two cards and exile two cards to revive this" a huge upside or anything. We get a "2/1 for B that comes back to life" nearly every couple of sets now. Gutterbones, Dread Wanderer, Bloodsoaked Champion, Gravecrawler... notice a trend? The cards tend to use or link into a mechanic of the set. So I'd say an escaping 2/1 for B is actually quite possible, but yeah, it would probably enter the battlefield tapped.
Note also that original Theros block had two 2/1s for a single B, each with upsides, and only just the "enters tapped" or "can't block" downside.
Yes, my friend, I noticed this pattern long time ago... and, if you count the 1/* for B that return from graveyard, we had Sanitarium Skeleton from Shadows over Innistrad reprinted in M20 recentrly, and Cauldron Familiar from Throne of Eldraine just yesterday.
The pattern really seems to be in a way that the 2 points os power come with some downside like ETB or can't block... cause the 1/* for B creatures that return to the battlefield really have no downside attached to this mechanic. Cauldron Familiar even have another ability that can be considered a great upside.. it really doesn't need the second point of power cause when it ETB opponent's life goes down by one.
It is really possible that we can get a 2/1 for B creature with Escape. The question is at what escape cost and how good/bad we think an alternative cost like "discard two cards and exile two others cards" is. For the majority of the decks, discard two cards is a huge downside... but when you need enablers that act from graveyard... this is a huge upside.
| UBRG D. Shadow | WUBRG Humans | BRG Dredge | UG Infect |
The store made mistake and put them on the shelves early.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Sets begin printing and distribution long before official release.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/172629765523/how-long-before-release-does-printing-start
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I personally think this is a mistake as it would make all future graveyard card easier to understand.
They frankly mess with cards in a way that makes them incredible confusing.
All the super different layouts (like Saga) require you to understand what the card does before you even read it, otherwise the mechanic explains nothing.
The graveyard symbol was decent to quickly identify a card as something that is relevant in the graveyard , aka flashback , or a Genesis / Wonder.
Especially in formats in which the graveyard order is relevant you couldnt just re-arrange your graveyard, which made this even more useful.
Anyway, its a thing you also need to know what it means, as the symbol does not explain itself very intuitive.
If a symbol requires such knowledge, its really not helpful for a newbie, its just more confusing to cluster a card full of symbols you need to learn the meaning of.
Frankly, manasymbols and the like do the same, but you really want to limit it.
At some point in Portal they put sword/shield symbols on power/thoughness, which is just overkill.
----
Having a different frame for effects is still a good idea.
Miracle cards look different, so you notice it has miracle ; thats a good thing, even if it is again something you first need to know and learn, so you can notice it for what it means in the first place.
----
Useful symbols can be good, but having too many of them is just making things worse.
Theres simply not a perfect solution.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
for anyone who hasn't figured this out yet, the "store put it on the shelves early" story is literally impossible and this person just got some stolen packs/cards from one of the printing companies.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Also, dredge's "cost" is too-easily turned into an asset (filling your graveyard etc) while escape actually eats further into your resources. It is creature flashback, and flashback is both incredibly popular and safe.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The problem with delve is it's nearly unbounded cost reduction.
This both costs mana and graveyard real estate. It isn't cutting into the price in a dangerous way. It's just making the cards not cost something stupid like a certain boros angel back in the day that cost something like 6 and 10 to recast so it wouldn't warp standard/limited. Infact I will be surprised if there's more than maybe 1 of these that is, say, modern playable.
If Theros will have a story and I suspect it’s not a question he can answer now, sadly. This does concern me as I’ve been eagerly awaiting the continuation of Godsend lore
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I was ready to disagree, but looking back, you're kinda right. Even in a weaker (mostly) peasant cube, there's not a lot going on here. I have an enchantment theme that I really want to add some payoff to, but despite loads of enchantments, few of them are really worth looking at. There are lots of cards with constellation,but all the payoff basically amounts to a small one-turn advantage, like "tap target creature" or "flying until end of turn". The "gain 2 life" guy is the only one worth recurring Flickering Ward for.
Likewise, I play a major graveyard theme, and the escape cards we've seen tend to be mediocre at best. The spider's not terrible, and the 4/4 that becomes a 7/7 is good for a common, but nothing is really worth bringing to the cube forum. Even for the B-listers like myself, there's not much to talk about.
That Narcissus guy is interesting... probably not good, but interesting if you can get value out of the fact of the two bodies. Of course you'd have to be taking advantage of the high stats to make it as good as Eldrazi Skyspawner.
Elspeth does do some interesting stuff for cube: she supports the graveyard in white (the weakest graveyard color), and does so in a planeswalker slot. She also produces two bodies at once to support swarm strategies. Her -1 and -2 make her a playable curve-topper in aggro. The life gain will occasionally save you when the other things wouldn't, and control can sorta use her as a recursive value engine. She's not as outright powerful as several other white planeswalkers, but she fills several different roles, which I personally prefer over power. She'd be a great add for my big cube, but too powerful for my mostly-peasant. She's not gonna stand a chance with the high-power cubers.
Still, this is a totally random sampling, and there are always lots of cards of this power level. Mechanics wise, I like where the set is going.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
My thoughts were caused mostly by the non-enchantment creatures with constellation, such as the setessan skirmisher feeling like a weaker oakheart dryads, but even the enchantment creatures with constellation also have a weaker feel to them. As I noticed my cube was naturally having an enchantment subtheme, so things like eidolon of blossoms or dreadbringer lampads for example made sense. While these new constellations feel more, selfish, to say the least.
I do hope its just a small cycle and there is actually a cycle of altruistic constellation creatures.
Sure-sure, its not an absolute 1:1, but hey tweaks and modifications happen to get the final product.
Original Thread: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/custom-card-creation/770243-two-different-multi-colored-legendaries