MTG Salvation

Prismatic Vista is already silly expensive, after this Fabled Passage will skyrocket also

Quote from Timba »

Where is Pioneer sub-forum??

We will need one for Historic too!!

People have already started buying up cards for the format. Siege Rhino went from $1 to $4 two days after the announcement. A lot of high volume buyout gambling is happening right now. Makes me not want to even bother with the format. At this point they can print Pioneer Masters in Summer 2020 or just forget about the format. I also don't feel like playing against Siege Rhino anymore. Everyone was trilled when it was gone.

Quote from SpeedGrapher »

People have already started buying up cards for the format. Siege Rhino went from $1 to $4 two days after the announcement. A lot of high volume buyout gambling is happening right now. Makes me not want to even bother with the format. At this point they can print Pioneer Masters in Summer 2020 or just forget about the format. I also don't feel like playing against Siege Rhino anymore. Everyone was trilled when it was gone.

prices will stabilize, but i absolutely agree. people in this very thread have complained about the cost to get into modern, and this will be no different in very short order. they can't just go and reprint tons of stuff without adversely effecting standard so they forced themselves yet again into a corner where they won't do anything about the secondary market but it consistently causes a problem because of their approach to reprints

Quote from Xcric »

Quote from SpeedGrapher »

People have already started buying up cards for the format. Siege Rhino went from $1 to $4 two days after the announcement. A lot of high volume buyout gambling is happening right now. Makes me not want to even bother with the format. At this point they can print Pioneer Masters in Summer 2020 or just forget about the format. I also don't feel like playing against Siege Rhino anymore. Everyone was trilled when it was gone.

prices will stabilize, but i absolutely agree. people in this very thread have complained about the cost to get into modern, and this will be no different in very short order. they can't just go and reprint tons of stuff without adversely effecting standard so they forced themselves yet again into a corner where they won't do anything about the secondary market but it consistently causes a problem because of their approach to reprints

I think the problem is multi layered... the only way they solve the "reprint problem" is to print it to the ground or very often, so that inventories become very large and prices per card is some arbitrary low number say 2 dollars (and thats for the playable ones, the rest will be worthless in monetary terms)

The toxic groups in the reprint problem are the speculators AND the people who want 2 dollar or lower cards. Both groups are problems. Its not like the cards were not low in price at some point in time. The problem is people do not cherish their cards and only see the cards from a financial perspective. A siege rhino card is the same siege rhino card, whether it was 1$ a week ago or a buyitnow price of 4$ today. If one did not sell off because of rotation or that the cards has been overrun in terms of playability... then pioneer format or no, there is no issue. As long as players (should we even call them that) see cards from a financial point, we will have this problem unless they print it to the ground .


Edit:
That said... the two problem groups are not going to go away, indeed all of us are probably part of the problem since we create the demand. My advice is to get the cards you need if you have a pet deck/cards that you sold off previously if the price is still low. If the price has jumped, then just wait it out, thing is these newer sets inventories are very large... Siege Rhino was actually pretty low in price for its popularity due to the large print run. The people buying out? their money is locked in cardboard. In the meantime I will go out and enjoy the sunshine or whatever weather it is for you out there decklist change ALL the time, just wait for a period when it is not the current hotness. If you choose to chase the current popular decks... then I am afraid its the same old game, in any format.

Quote from Xcric »

Quote from SpeedGrapher »

People have already started buying up cards for the format. Siege Rhino went from $1 to $4 two days after the announcement. A lot of high volume buyout gambling is happening right now. Makes me not want to even bother with the format. At this point they can print Pioneer Masters in Summer 2020 or just forget about the format. I also don't feel like playing against Siege Rhino anymore. Everyone was trilled when it was gone.

prices will stabilize, but i absolutely agree. people in this very thread have complained about the cost to get into modern, and this will be no different in very short order. they can't just go and reprint tons of stuff without adversely effecting standard so they forced themselves yet again into a corner where they won't do anything about the secondary market but it consistently causes a problem because of their approach to reprints

Every card in pioneer is also in modern. Once they do another modern masters they can reprint pioneer stuff.

Quote from leslak »

Quote from Xcric »

Quote from SpeedGrapher »

People have already started buying up cards for the format. Siege Rhino went from $1 to $4 two days after the announcement. A lot of high volume buyout gambling is happening right now. Makes me not want to even bother with the format. At this point they can print Pioneer Masters in Summer 2020 or just forget about the format. I also don't feel like playing against Siege Rhino anymore. Everyone was trilled when it was gone.

prices will stabilize, but i absolutely agree. people in this very thread have complained about the cost to get into modern, and this will be no different in very short order. they can't just go and reprint tons of stuff without adversely effecting standard so they forced themselves yet again into a corner where they won't do anything about the secondary market but it consistently causes a problem because of their approach to reprints

Every card in pioneer is also in modern. Once they do another modern masters they can reprint pioneer stuff.

right, because they handled that so well. Remember Tarmogoyf getting the mythic treatment, despite the initial announcement of the new rarity sounding a lot like 'we will not do it to SPECIFICALLY Tarmogoyf type cards'? they will take Modern and Pioneer tournament staples (and not nearly enough of either) put anything with real value at mythic, and put them in $7-10 packs with a bunch of chaff that not even the drafters are happy to see. they discontinued the Masters series because aside from the last hurrah of Ultimate, they ran it into the ground through poor implementation, and Modern still has a bunch of cards approaching or exceeding $100 apiece. and most of the problem cards are from sets with relatively lower print runs. I am skeptical about anything in this new format holding a high price, but Wizards can't really fix it if something does. say a card from BFZ skyrockets, TKS perhaps. if that absurd print run didn't provide us with enough copies, a Masters set won't be able to touch it. idk what the print run numbers of ANY set was, but I would wager that even after multiple Masters set reprints, there are still fewer copies of Tarmogoyf in the world than a given BFZ mythic. they need to go back to real reprints in core sets

Quote from Melkor »

Quote from leslak »

Quote from Xcric »

Quote from SpeedGrapher »

People have already started buying up cards for the format. Siege Rhino went from $1 to $4 two days after the announcement. A lot of high volume buyout gambling is happening right now. Makes me not want to even bother with the format. At this point they can print Pioneer Masters in Summer 2020 or just forget about the format. I also don't feel like playing against Siege Rhino anymore. Everyone was trilled when it was gone.

prices will stabilize, but i absolutely agree. people in this very thread have complained about the cost to get into modern, and this will be no different in very short order. they can't just go and reprint tons of stuff without adversely effecting standard so they forced themselves yet again into a corner where they won't do anything about the secondary market but it consistently causes a problem because of their approach to reprints

Every card in pioneer is also in modern. Once they do another modern masters they can reprint pioneer stuff.

right, because they handled that so well. Remember Tarmogoyf getting the mythic treatment, despite the initial announcement of the new rarity sounding a lot like 'we will not do it to SPECIFICALLY Tarmogoyf type cards'? they will take Modern and Pioneer tournament staples (and not nearly enough of either) put anything with real value at mythic, and put them in $7-10 packs with a bunch of chaff that not even the drafters are happy to see. they discontinued the Masters series because aside from the last hurrah of Ultimate, they ran it into the ground through poor implementation, and Modern still has a bunch of cards approaching or exceeding $100 apiece. and most of the problem cards are from sets with relatively lower print runs. I am skeptical about anything in this new format holding a high price, but Wizards can't really fix it if something does. say a card from BFZ skyrockets, TKS perhaps. if that absurd print run didn't provide us with enough copies, a Masters set won't be able to touch it. idk what the print run numbers of ANY set was, but I would wager that even after multiple Masters set reprints, there are still fewer copies of Tarmogoyf in the world than a given BFZ mythic. they need to go back to real reprints in core sets

It's hard for me to imagine them doing a Full 100% reprint core set anymore. It can be the Pioneer core set.It would be really easy to sell. Just as easy to promote. Pioneer Origins. You power up standard for one cycle. Hard print everything. Then they can keep putting 1-5 re-prints in normal sets after that like they already have been doing. $4 a pack, no one complains. It would be great. Promo Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. They need to stop feeding us this design bs. You can print anything you want in a core set. That would positively effect stores and players. You can even down grade rares to uncommon if there isn't enough room. There is plenty of room at uncommon for rares that can be down graded. Cards that cost 6+ mana can be reprinted at uncommon. You know cards that were going to be printed anyway such as Palisade Giantor Sphinx of the Chimes. It would power up the set a little bit. Then you just have to print powered up removal as well.
Uncommon
W
Sorcery
Exile target create.
The only draw back is that it is sorcery speed.
Innocent Blood
G
Name: Grow Roots
Enchantment
Target create loses all abilities and gains defender.
Blue
unsummon
R
Instant
Discard a card. Deal x damage to target create. Where x is the discarded cards converted mana cost.

I don't think they will change how they put reprints in the Core set. It satisfies all formats and you maintain reprint equity, just don't expect LotV or other powerhouse reprint in Core. I agree that a Pioneer Master-origin-horizon set is to be expected to inject some reprints from old sets that missed the cut off. With the fetch banning, it makes me believe they want a "slower" format than Modern to push games farther so ETB tapped is likely a mainstay. That being said I would love to see the Mirage fetches be reprinted (e.g.Bad River) for Pioneer.

The Mirage fetch lands would be great for pioneer. I do have one question though If they reprint or print anything for Pioneer would it also be legal in modern and other formats?

Quote from Qysas »

The Mirage fetch lands would be great for pioneer. I do have one question though If they reprint or print anything for Pioneer would it also be legal in modern and other formats?

It would be legal for Legacy, Vintage and Pauper, but for Modern, it depends on HOW they print it. If they print it in Standard then its legal for Modern. If they print a Pioneer set only, then I presume it is exclusive of modern, however, in the end, WOTC can do whatever they want.

True WOTC is the source in that aspect. I know the format is very new. When does everyone think we may get a sub forum for it?

See you all in six months when we never speak of this again

Quote from Qysas »

The Mirage fetch lands would be great for pioneer. I do have one question though If they reprint or print anything for Pioneer would it also be legal in modern and other formats?

There would be no fetch lands for pioneer. I'm 99% sure they will ban mirage fetches in pioneer when they release them in return to zendikar in a year.

Quote from Timba »

Quote from Qysas »

The Mirage fetch lands would be great for pioneer. I do have one question though If they reprint or print anything for Pioneer would it also be legal in modern and other formats?

There would be no fetch lands for pioneer. I'm 99% sure they will ban mirage fetches in pioneer when they release them in return to zendikar in a year.

The Mirage fetch lands are about the same speed as evolving wilds are they not?

Quote from Qysas »

Quote from Timba »

Quote from Qysas »

The Mirage fetch lands would be great for pioneer. I do have one question though If they reprint or print anything for Pioneer would it also be legal in modern and other formats?

There would be no fetch lands for pioneer. I'm 99% sure they will ban mirage fetches in pioneer when they release them in return to zendikar in a year.

The Mirage fetch lands are about the same speed as evolving wilds are they not?

Oh sorry I googled Mirage fetch lands and the first pic was with Onslaught fetch lands so I mixed them up with modern legal fetches. My comment was about regular modern fetches - Onslaught/Zendikar. I dont know about Mirage fetches, looks like Wizards dont like fetches much and would like to keep them at minimum to minimize shuffling effects in new formats.

True Wizards doesn't like the constant shuffling effects. Yet I think the Mirage fetch lands would be safe alternative to the modern fetch lands. They would help search up lands but not as fast as modern fetch lands.

I would maybe have 4 Mirage fetches at most, and really to fetch a shockland for turn 2 or 3. Maybe Manalith or pain-lands will be more common in some of my multi-color decks in pioneer.

True enough, 4 Mirage fetches to along with maybe 2-4 evolving wilds could help smooth decks a little bit but I don't think it would be as aggressive as Modern fetches.

When are we getting a forum board for this format so that we can post and discuss deck ideas with the community?

Quote from Timba »

Quote from Qysas »

Quote from Timba »

Quote from Qysas »

The Mirage fetch lands would be great for pioneer. I do have one question though If they reprint or print anything for Pioneer would it also be legal in modern and other formats?

There would be no fetch lands for pioneer. I'm 99% sure they will ban mirage fetches in pioneer when they release them in return to zendikar in a year.

The Mirage fetch lands are about the same speed as evolving wilds are they not?

Oh sorry I googled Mirage fetch lands and the first pic was with Onslaught fetch lands so I mixed them up with modern legal fetches. My comment was about regular modern fetches - Onslaught/Zendikar. I dont know about Mirage fetches, looks like Wizards dont like fetches much and would like to keep them at minimum to minimize shuffling effects in new formats.

People keep saying that, and have been saying that for years, but they keep on printing new land-search-and-shuffle stuff. Like really, if it was a significant consideration in design, Fabled Passage wouldn't exist. Evolvng Wilds wouldn't be reprinted every eyeblink. They wouldn't have added yet more fetching to Modern in the form of Prismatic Vista. They'd find/design other ways to ramp green than the usual "Search your library for a land". They'd stop printing cards with the Assassin's Trophy / Old-Growth Dryads / Path to Exile / Field of Ruin clause.

There's no actual identifiable sign that they're designing to avoid land-search-and-shuffle as a time saving imperative. If they really wanted to minimize shuffling they'd find a way, and they repeatedly opt not to.

What you say is true. It would be nice to get some budget friendly fetch lands. Also a forum to talk and discuss deck designs for Pioneer would be great.

Quote from Qysas »

What you say is true. It would be nice to get some budget friendly fetch lands. Also a forum to talk and discuss deck designs for Pioneer would be great.

That's the biggest disappointment from this announcement to me. With the banning of the fetchlands in Pioneer, I fear they'll never reprint the fetches in Standard again. I doubt they'll even reprint the slow fetches or finish their cycle with an enemy colored group. It's a god damn shame too. Slow fetches and Tango lands/Cycle lands in enemy colors would do a LOT to make decent enemy colored mana bases more viable in EDH and in other formats.

I wish they would get over themselves and print the lands that need to be printed in the actual EDH products. Increase the amount of new cards a little bit and just add the lands that need to be added already. No precon deck that claims to be decent should have a manabase as bad as this years Jeskai deck ever again (it doesn't help that the deck itself is crappy too).

How does MTGS not have a Pioneer forum yet?

I do not think the only issue with fetches is the searching. The other problem is that every multi-colored deck basically needs to run fetches and the fetches feed a lot of graveyard strategies.