That ... really doesn't compare to the likelihood of an on-demand revolt trigger in a fetch-loaded modern deck. Like, not even close.
Maybe not, but it is a better answer than "the card is useless". I look for the positives. Of course, I am not trying to compare against Pioneer against Modern, either, which seems to be a common theme here. If you love your current pet but you get a new pet you wouldn't spend time complaining how the new pet isn't as great as the old pet, would you? *shrug*
If you don't like Pioneer then don't play that format. Simple. For the people who do want to play it, though, if they really want Push then they need to spend the time figuring out ways to make it work. Treasure and Etherium Cells are the best ways to get maximum value from it.
@ haloreaper117- Your uninformed. Standard has only ever had fetches in them three times in M:tG’s history. The only time they caused a problem was when WotC, after saying for years fetches are fine in Standard without fetchable dual lands, included them in a Standard with fetchable duals.
And the shuffling taking up to much streaming time is a hollow excuse because not enough people watch streams of players playing games with real cards because there boring to watch. The heavy stream watchings are from Arena where shuffling time isn’t an issue.
I'm not uninformed, I played through all of those standard formats. I strongly believe they are too strong for standard legal sets for the reasons I mentioned above, only one of which you barely attempted to despute. Increased shuffling is the worst argument, I'll give you that. My other arguments are well informed and have experience behind them. Even in Zendikar block people were running 4 and 5 color decks then also. Landfall caused some power level issues as well. They reduce variance in game play and thinned decks or filled graveyards too quickly. Odyssey/Onslaught format ring a ball? I'd say it's been a developmental nightmare since they first printed them. By the way, you can't call someone uninformed and launch a super lame uninformed argument. At least articulate yourself and pose an actual debate! Regardless of my opinion I would say this banning indicates strongly that they won't be printing the fetch lands in a standard legal expansion again. I also believe if they do for some reason do decide to reprint them at some point they will then ban them in Pioneer as well. It is a smart move on WOTC part too! They can't really print more efficient lands, the shocks and fetches already come really close to breaking the basic land supremacy rule for starters. So in an effort to make more land cycles (and other cards that can't compete in other non- rotating formats too but that is a separate related topic) actually have value they would need a format that supplies demand for lands that aren't fetch lands.
What it comes down to is that Wizards uses Standard to thoroughly crush an expensive card. The problem is, a card can’t return to Standard unless it fits the rules of New World Order, which is the current design philosophy for sets on rotation. So about half of Modern is excluded from Standard reprints. They can’t use precons for meaningful reprints either, because the guaranteed presence kills reprint equity for Wizards, who depends on the gambling aspect of packs to pad the bottom line.
The next problem is, New World Order didn’t start until Return to Ravnica. So only RTR onward has the card design to see a steady supply of reprints as is permutable in Standard. Standard has become Wizards new primary engine of reprinting. And so they needed the format to be entirely within the NWO to so as to provide the reprints.
With the death of Masters and precons being the primary supply of “Eternal” staples, Wizards can go back to pushing Standard like they always wanted. Every given set has the chance to feed 2 competitive formats, which sells the latest set.
And power creep is less likely, due to the inherently weaker card design in New World Order.
Pioneer isn’t an eternal format. It’s a New World Order All-Stars format.
What it comes down to is that Wizards uses Standard to thoroughly crush an expensive card. The problem is, a card can’t return to Standard unless it fits the rules of New World Order, which is the current design philosophy for sets on rotation. So about half of Modern is excluded from Standard reprints. They can’t use precons for meaningful reprints either, because the guaranteed presence kills reprint equity for Wizards, who depends on the gambling aspect of packs to pad the bottom line.
The next problem is, New World Order didn’t start until Return to Ravnica. So only RTR onward has the card design to see a steady supply of reprints as is permutable in Standard.
New World Order only has to do with simplicity at common. The problem with modern and legacy reprints is that too many of the key cards would either tank into worthlessness or warp standard horribly like Thoughtsieze. Precons would work if you printed as many as could sell, but it would crash all but the most chase card or two in the decks into the bulk bin.
We saw it happen with Zendikar and Tarkir. People opened product to the point fetches hit $10 and crushed everything else to bulk. It also heavily affected the sales of surrounding sets as people played the fetchland lottery with their prize packs. Not only do they affect gameplay with their absurd consistency and waste time with constant shuffling but they warp card prices and sales around themselves. If it wouldn't lead to such an outcry, banning the fetchlands from ALL formats would probably be the best thing for the health of the game. They're so warping people have seriously floated reintroducing broken cards like Wasteland to balance things. Absurdly overpowered cards like back to basics and wasteland were a mistake to print and so were fetchlands. If they were banned, people might not even be advocating for Blood Moon cards. Maybe Pioneer will show people that extreme consistency in fixing should have never happened.
Or it’ll just make every Mana Confluence like card go through the roof. People will gravitate towards the cards that allow them to play all their cards. This is why mana confluence has doubled in price since pioneer announcement and probably not slowing down anytime soon. If it’s not one form of fixing it’ll be another.
Mana Confluence cards are riskier, though. They cost life per mana, don't have basic types for m10 lands, and therefore push you toward shocks for even more pain. You can pay life for power but at some point, the damage is too severe.
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CerberusJund (Modern)GRB
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Morphentress (Commander) GUB
I also play YGO (DragunFusion) and Hearthstone (Dragon Control Warrior)
Maybe not, but it is a better answer than "the card is useless". I look for the positives. Of course, I am not trying to compare against Pioneer against Modern, either, which seems to be a common theme here. If you love your current pet but you get a new pet you wouldn't spend time complaining how the new pet isn't as great as the old pet, would you? *shrug*
If you don't like Pioneer then don't play that format. Simple. For the people who do want to play it, though, if they really want Push then they need to spend the time figuring out ways to make it work. Treasure and Etherium Cells are the best ways to get maximum value from it.
I'm not uninformed, I played through all of those standard formats. I strongly believe they are too strong for standard legal sets for the reasons I mentioned above, only one of which you barely attempted to despute. Increased shuffling is the worst argument, I'll give you that. My other arguments are well informed and have experience behind them. Even in Zendikar block people were running 4 and 5 color decks then also. Landfall caused some power level issues as well. They reduce variance in game play and thinned decks or filled graveyards too quickly. Odyssey/Onslaught format ring a ball? I'd say it's been a developmental nightmare since they first printed them. By the way, you can't call someone uninformed and launch a super lame uninformed argument. At least articulate yourself and pose an actual debate! Regardless of my opinion I would say this banning indicates strongly that they won't be printing the fetch lands in a standard legal expansion again. I also believe if they do for some reason do decide to reprint them at some point they will then ban them in Pioneer as well. It is a smart move on WOTC part too! They can't really print more efficient lands, the shocks and fetches already come really close to breaking the basic land supremacy rule for starters. So in an effort to make more land cycles (and other cards that can't compete in other non- rotating formats too but that is a separate related topic) actually have value they would need a format that supplies demand for lands that aren't fetch lands.
The next problem is, New World Order didn’t start until Return to Ravnica. So only RTR onward has the card design to see a steady supply of reprints as is permutable in Standard. Standard has become Wizards new primary engine of reprinting. And so they needed the format to be entirely within the NWO to so as to provide the reprints.
With the death of Masters and precons being the primary supply of “Eternal” staples, Wizards can go back to pushing Standard like they always wanted. Every given set has the chance to feed 2 competitive formats, which sells the latest set.
And power creep is less likely, due to the inherently weaker card design in New World Order.
Pioneer isn’t an eternal format. It’s a New World Order All-Stars format.
Incorrect.
Zendikar was the first set to be fully designed under the new world order philosophy.
You clearly don't know what NWO is.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/59210579698/nwo-wouldnt-care-if-ancestral-recall-were-printed#notes
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/43299188962/in-response-to-soulflames-talking-about-non-spike
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/22851174337/what-i-meant-in-my-last-question-was-that-recent
Of course it's not an eternal format; it only includes the last ten years of cards. Eternal formats need to include all the sets.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/november-11-2019-pioneer-banned-announcement
Keep fighting the good fight.
Sincerely,
U
We saw it happen with Zendikar and Tarkir. People opened product to the point fetches hit $10 and crushed everything else to bulk. It also heavily affected the sales of surrounding sets as people played the fetchland lottery with their prize packs. Not only do they affect gameplay with their absurd consistency and waste time with constant shuffling but they warp card prices and sales around themselves. If it wouldn't lead to such an outcry, banning the fetchlands from ALL formats would probably be the best thing for the health of the game. They're so warping people have seriously floated reintroducing broken cards like Wasteland to balance things. Absurdly overpowered cards like back to basics and wasteland were a mistake to print and so were fetchlands. If they were banned, people might not even be advocating for Blood Moon cards. Maybe Pioneer will show people that extreme consistency in fixing should have never happened.