That's assuming she's even still a Planeswalker in Theros 2. Have we seen what happens to Planeswalkers when they go to the Underworld yet?
Teyo seems more likely to be the Gideon replacement. His power set is very similar.
No we don't know what happens to Planeswalker when they die in Theros. We just know what was written in the Journey's End Story.
During her hero's journey, Elspeth transcended her everyday fears. Her own comfort and safety were no longer her primary concerns. She sacrificed herself for the love of Daxos, the love of Theros, and the love of innocents who can't protect themselves.
When mortals die in Theros, they go to the Underworld. The living can only speculate what the Underworld is really like, because the Returned reveal nothing.
If there are more obstacles waiting for Elspeth, she will face them unhindered by mundane cares and concerns, more powerful than ever before.
Teyo rejected the offer to join the Gatewatch. So I guess that they might have other plans for him. I don't believe that he will show up in enough sets to be establish as main white planeswalker.
Teyo is different from Gideon. Gideon was a leader and he is more like a follower. Gideon didn't had any spells or powers to protect others. He throwed himself in front of the danger to protect the people behind him. If this would be a RPG, than he would be a tank. Teyo provides magical shields and barriers. He can shield other people. He seems more like a healer or supporter. I think Gideons protection would be better for a single target threat, while Teyo could protect multiple targets or areas. In addition Gideon can be very offensive, while Teyo not that much.
We didn't get a white aligned Planeswalker in Eldraine. I think we will see a Green/white Ajani and a White Elspeth in Theros.
Wasn't her mask made by pieces of Godsend? I believe that I read something like that.
It was a part of the extended Theros Block trailer, which showed thee hilt/guard of the Godsend made into a mask (Elspeth wasn't in the shot, but it was in the underworld). The design has changed but that's magic art for you.
We didn't get a white aligned Planeswalker in Eldraine. I think we will see a Green/white Ajani and a White Elspeth in Theros.
While we no longer have blocks (based on singular planes over multiple sets) the color balance within any given year of standard still requires variety in walker colors. And the walker count per-standard (barring Starter decks) hasn't changed.
Post-rotation White is at the lowest count of walkers (including Eldraine having nothing to add here), with blue&black having the most (thanks Tezzy), and red+green also being at a slight low. Really easy for them to just give us another Selesnya Cat and Monowhite Elspeth and balance things a bit better.
Wasn't her mask made by pieces of Godsend? I believe that I read something like that.
It was a part of the extended Theros Block trailer, which showed thee hilt/guard of the Godsend made into a mask (Elspeth wasn't in the shot, but it was in the underworld). The design has changed but that's magic art for you.
We didn't get a white aligned Planeswalker in Eldraine. I think we will see a Green/white Ajani and a White Elspeth in Theros.
While we no longer have blocks (based on singular planes over multiple sets) the color balance within any given year of standard still requires variety in walker colors. And the walker count per-standard (barring Starter decks) hasn't changed.
Post-rotation White is at the lowest count of walkers (including Eldraine having nothing to add here), with blue&black having the most (thanks Tezzy), and red+green also being at a slight low. Really easy for them to just give us another Selesnya Cat and Monowhite Elspeth and balance things a bit better.
I’m content with that. As much as I’d love to see Jace on Theros, it’s Ajani and Elspeth’s time to shine.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
- Whenever a source an opponent controls causes a permanent you control to be destroyed, put 1 loyality counter on Elspeth.
0 Create a 1/1 white Soulja creature token.
-2 Tap X creatures you control;
Destroy target creature with mc X.
-7 Creatures you control become 4/4 white, flying Angels until end of turn.
I still think that decision not to have it be Greek and Rome is kind of silly. While I can see a Rome world being different from Greek world I feel they'd simply overlap a bit too much without some other major draw.
I still think that decision not to have it be Greek and Rome is kind of silly. While I can see a Rome world being different from Greek world I feel they'd simply overlap a bit too much without some other major draw.
Please no more this.
MaRo (and most other content creators) are already presuming that most of their audiences are idiots. Please dont encourage them.
Greece and Rome are nothing alike, except one day a bunch of militant rapists decided that they might need some cultural values if their cartel was going to last more than a generation or three after achieving a comfortable amount of assets, so they went and conquered a country which had some and took that too.
I still think that decision not to have it be Greek and Rome is kind of silly. While I can see a Rome world being different from Greek world I feel they'd simply overlap a bit too much without some other major draw.
Please no more this.
MaRo (and most other content creators) are already presuming that most of their audiences are idiots. Please dont encourage them.
Greece and Rome are nothing alike, except one day a bunch of militant rapists decided that they might need some cultural values if their cartel was going to last more than a generation or three after achieving a comfortable amount of assets, so they went and conquered a country which had some and took that too.
This is the same company that thinks Kamigawa is bad because it wasn't anime enough. When you reduce things to that standard I don't expect much from a Rome plane that would stand on its own relative to a Greek plane, because from a pop culture standpoint the two are similar enough. That there are many people asking for it makes the public perception of Greece relative to Rome pretty obvious.
... I don't expect much from a Rome plane that would stand on its own relative to a Greek plane, because from a pop culture standpoint the two are similar enough.
I respectfully disagree. What aspects of pop culture do you believe other people are conflating? Personally, I can't think of two more prominent and yet vastly different historical representations than 300 and Gladiator, which apart from the occasional head plumage and melee blood spillage, nobody should ever confuse for being similar. If we really want to distill a given genre, we could say that any fantasy settings would be too much alike, since they all have wizards / knights / etc.
I'm more confused by what exact aspects you think they're bringing to a Roman Plane that will 1. Carry it as a plane solely on its own, and 2. Not be too obscure. Bearing in mind that from a mythological standpoint the only thing that is likely to get past the pop culture threshold is the founding of Rome, which isn't really offering much, leaving real life history as a basis which is not something I expect to be any better. Picking two random movies as though that's a summary of what pop culture is relative to those two subjects just shows you're being fairly disingenuous in your argument. And completely ignoring that Greco-Roman are tied much more closely together than you're willing to accept.
In terms of pop culture I can think of that shows them off as two sides of the same coin? Percy Jackson. Yes, they're different, but they're still much more intimately tied together than the other mythologies tackled. And I think that at the end of the day that's going to hurt any solo Rome plane.
I'd like you to bear in mind that 1), I'm not the one advocating for a Roman themed plane, and 2), it's never been my intent to argue for or against such a plane being able to "stand on its own." My sole point of contention is that there is no such pop culture movement to conflate Greece and Rome, which was the argument forwarded so long ago when I first attempted to correct posters' misuse of the term "Greco-Roman" when referring to Theros. It is, admittedly, difficult for me to empathize with the lay person on this subject given that the bulk of my undergraduate studies focused both on Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire (I have a BA in History from UCLA). I strongly suspect, however, that the head plumage I mentioned before isn't enough to fool even the most casual observer into believing that they're nearly as identical in the public view as you make them out to be, at least not any more so than they should believe depictions of Colonial America and WWII America are the same because "dudes with gunz." The question I posed before was made in earnestness, and I gave you some examples of my own as an act of good faith. Suffice it to say, I know exactly how much Greece and Rome are tied together, which is a great deal more than your average forum poster.
In your opinion, do you really feel that the shared mythological elements, like the pantheon, are too much for the general public to look past? Personally, I feel there's enough to differentiate the two culturally, geographically, and militarily that separate planes could be possible, if the major elements of Roman history weren't already present in Ravnica.
I feel like calling a "pop culture movement" indicates there is some sort of focused effort to do so when it's merely the result of what looking at something very shallowly will end up with. Much as one may, for instance, look at Japan and come to the conclusion all there is are ninja and samurai. These are both false, but an example to show more than the latter for Japan was met with incredible resistance. You can also see it in Eldraine where they knowingly avoided going too deep into Arthurian lore because the bulk of the audience to them wouldn't understand it. Amonkhet? Again, mostly a very shallow kind of thing. If you are only doing a shallow look at Rome, especially if it's a mythologically oriented set, then it's not going to stand out near enough from Theros.
And you're kind of showing your own bias with regards to your studies, as well as using an American history based thing which people get a lot more heavily schooled in typically than the nuances of Greece vs Rome, if they even touch on the subject. Beyond gladiators and empires I doubt there is much people do know about Rome from a pop culture subject.
As for whether or not they will do a Rome plane they seem interested in it. I just think they're going to have to add in other elements, and it'll probably be a bottom up set that gets a Rome theme tossed on as opposed to a top-down Rome set. Note that this isn't about whether or not an in depth look at two different cultures has enough for them to stand on their own, that question is fairly obvious. It's what happens when you look at a very shallow, pop culture focused view on a subject that I'm talking about.
Beyond gladiators and empires I doubt there is much people do know about Rome from a pop culture subject.
And that's exactly where I disagree; you cast the "empire" of Rome as a minor feature in public consciousness when compared to the Olympians or mythological monsters, but the empire is very much its defining feature in every popular medium that I can think of off the top of my head. Do I need to be more worldly in my approach to pop culture references to overcome my bias, or can we admit that mainstream portrayals of Greece and Rome are largely a product of American cinema anyways? My point wasn't expressly about my views as a U.S. citizen, but rather a demonstration of how distilling different periods in time to their most basic, common elements can be unproductive in the extreme.
I feel like calling a "pop culture movement" indicates there is some sort of focused effort to do so when it's merely the result of what looking at something very shallowly will end up with. Much as one may, for instance, look at Japan and come to the conclusion all there is are ninja and samurai.
If Wizards believed we'd had our fill of "sword fighting Asians" after Kamigawa, Khans would never have been a thing.
Saying "gladiators and empires" is not casting it in a minor feature of public consciousness, it is saying it is one of two things. And I don't think either of those are enough to stand on their own. Empire and Gladiator World isn't exactly a very exciting sounding plane to me.
And I'm kind of confused why you're acting like pop culture being mostly products of American things ignores the point I'm making. Nor am I saying that how America approaches things is good. But both of those are irrelevant.
As for whether or not they will do a Rome plane they seem interested in it. I just think they're going to have to add in other elements, and it'll probably be a bottom up set that gets a Rome theme tossed on as opposed to a top-down Rome set. Note that this isn't about whether or not an in depth look at two different cultures has enough for them to stand on their own, that question is fairly obvious. It's what happens when you look at a very shallow, pop culture focused view on a subject that I'm talking about.
Saying "gladiators and empires" is not casting it in a minor feature of public consciousness, it is saying it is one of two things. And I don't think either of those are enough to stand on their own. Empire and Gladiator World isn't exactly a very exciting sounding plane to me.
Then I guess you're not a big fan of some of the more recent sets.
You're really only making my case as most people probably wouldn't view Ravnica as very Rome-like, and most of your examples are probably not very heavily noticed in pop culture. *shrugs* I'm also not sure why mentioning it changes what is being discussed, as Ravnica predates Theros, and this long chain sparked because I said I think it was unwise of them to split Theros into Greek only. Ravnica is clearly not a Rome inspired plane so it doesn't really change things.
You're really only making my case as most people probably wouldn't view Ravnica as very Rome-like, and most of your examples are probably not very heavily noticed in pop culture.
And yet not only are those the fundamental differences between Greece and Rome, but Wizards thought they were distinct enough to revisit arguably the most popular plane inspired by them twice now. They're also pretty clearly represented in pop culture, if you're willing to concede that "pop culture" - as you keep referencing - is more than just Percy Jackson or Clash of the Titans. Have you even seen Gladiator? The HBO series Rome, or Spartacus? If those don't fit your definition of Roman pop culture references, then what does?
No we don't know what happens to Planeswalker when they die in Theros. We just know what was written in the Journey's End Story.
Teyo rejected the offer to join the Gatewatch. So I guess that they might have other plans for him. I don't believe that he will show up in enough sets to be establish as main white planeswalker.
Teyo is different from Gideon. Gideon was a leader and he is more like a follower. Gideon didn't had any spells or powers to protect others. He throwed himself in front of the danger to protect the people behind him. If this would be a RPG, than he would be a tank. Teyo provides magical shields and barriers. He can shield other people. He seems more like a healer or supporter. I think Gideons protection would be better for a single target threat, while Teyo could protect multiple targets or areas. In addition Gideon can be very offensive, while Teyo not that much.
We didn't get a white aligned Planeswalker in Eldraine. I think we will see a Green/white Ajani and a White Elspeth in Theros.
While we no longer have blocks (based on singular planes over multiple sets) the color balance within any given year of standard still requires variety in walker colors. And the walker count per-standard (barring Starter decks) hasn't changed.
Post-rotation White is at the lowest count of walkers (including Eldraine having nothing to add here), with blue&black having the most (thanks Tezzy), and red+green also being at a slight low. Really easy for them to just give us another Selesnya Cat and Monowhite Elspeth and balance things a bit better.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
It won't happen until we get a real roman plane (like the home of Licia, sanguine tribune)
Sure. That lets the abbreviation be "TBD".
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Yes? It has been confirmed.
1WW (4)
- Whenever a source an opponent controls causes a permanent you control to be destroyed, put 1 loyality counter on Elspeth.
0 Create a 1/1 white Soulja creature token.
-2 Tap X creatures you control;
Destroy target creature with mc X.
-7 Creatures you control become 4/4 white, flying Angels until end of turn.
I still think that decision not to have it be Greek and Rome is kind of silly. While I can see a Rome world being different from Greek world I feel they'd simply overlap a bit too much without some other major draw.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Please no more this.
MaRo (and most other content creators) are already presuming that most of their audiences are idiots. Please dont encourage them.
Greece and Rome are nothing alike, except one day a bunch of militant rapists decided that they might need some cultural values if their cartel was going to last more than a generation or three after achieving a comfortable amount of assets, so they went and conquered a country which had some and took that too.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
This is the same company that thinks Kamigawa is bad because it wasn't anime enough. When you reduce things to that standard I don't expect much from a Rome plane that would stand on its own relative to a Greek plane, because from a pop culture standpoint the two are similar enough. That there are many people asking for it makes the public perception of Greece relative to Rome pretty obvious.
I respectfully disagree. What aspects of pop culture do you believe other people are conflating? Personally, I can't think of two more prominent and yet vastly different historical representations than 300 and Gladiator, which apart from the occasional head plumage and melee blood spillage, nobody should ever confuse for being similar. If we really want to distill a given genre, we could say that any fantasy settings would be too much alike, since they all have wizards / knights / etc.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
In terms of pop culture I can think of that shows them off as two sides of the same coin? Percy Jackson. Yes, they're different, but they're still much more intimately tied together than the other mythologies tackled. And I think that at the end of the day that's going to hurt any solo Rome plane.
In your opinion, do you really feel that the shared mythological elements, like the pantheon, are too much for the general public to look past? Personally, I feel there's enough to differentiate the two culturally, geographically, and militarily that separate planes could be possible, if the major elements of Roman history weren't already present in Ravnica.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
And you're kind of showing your own bias with regards to your studies, as well as using an American history based thing which people get a lot more heavily schooled in typically than the nuances of Greece vs Rome, if they even touch on the subject. Beyond gladiators and empires I doubt there is much people do know about Rome from a pop culture subject.
As for whether or not they will do a Rome plane they seem interested in it. I just think they're going to have to add in other elements, and it'll probably be a bottom up set that gets a Rome theme tossed on as opposed to a top-down Rome set. Note that this isn't about whether or not an in depth look at two different cultures has enough for them to stand on their own, that question is fairly obvious. It's what happens when you look at a very shallow, pop culture focused view on a subject that I'm talking about.
And that's exactly where I disagree; you cast the "empire" of Rome as a minor feature in public consciousness when compared to the Olympians or mythological monsters, but the empire is very much its defining feature in every popular medium that I can think of off the top of my head. Do I need to be more worldly in my approach to pop culture references to overcome my bias, or can we admit that mainstream portrayals of Greece and Rome are largely a product of American cinema anyways? My point wasn't expressly about my views as a U.S. citizen, but rather a demonstration of how distilling different periods in time to their most basic, common elements can be unproductive in the extreme.
If Wizards believed we'd had our fill of "sword fighting Asians" after Kamigawa, Khans would never have been a thing.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
And I'm kind of confused why you're acting like pop culture being mostly products of American things ignores the point I'm making. Nor am I saying that how America approaches things is good. But both of those are irrelevant.
As I've mentioned now on more than one occasion, Ravnica is very much "Rome + other elements." Consider the following shared aspects: a ruling bureaucracy; an independent military; prevalent blood sport and spectacle; a burgeoning Gothic church, doomed to certain corruption; barbarians at the gates; pagan nature worship; and, more tenuously, the mystery cults. The only thing that makes the comparison less obvious is the abject lack of steampunk wizards in Roman history books.
Then I guess you're not a big fan of some of the more recent sets.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
And yet not only are those the fundamental differences between Greece and Rome, but Wizards thought they were distinct enough to revisit arguably the most popular plane inspired by them twice now. They're also pretty clearly represented in pop culture, if you're willing to concede that "pop culture" - as you keep referencing - is more than just Percy Jackson or Clash of the Titans. Have you even seen Gladiator? The HBO series Rome, or Spartacus? If those don't fit your definition of Roman pop culture references, then what does?
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice