And now Turtle Hydras. Crocodile Hydra when, Wizards?
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Hydras are supposed to grow heads , this is just ABUSING the tribal name and thats outright bad.
Card itself is fine.
Should simply NOT be a hydra, turtle ok, but hydra is so tacked on, like brute forcing a tribe into a card just because.
the only shimmer of flavor is that 5+ mana creatures can at least be hydras with X in them, but thats a super remote connection if at all, and again a forced synergy just to make it happen ; i very much disapprove of that kind of design.
Hydras are supposed to grow heads , this is just ABUSING the tribal name and thats outright bad.
Card itself is fine.
Should simply NOT be a hydra, turtle ok, but hydra is so tacked on, like brute forcing a tribe into a card just because.
the only shimmer of flavor is that 5+ mana creatures can at least be hydras with X in them, but thats a super remote connection if at all, and again a forced synergy just to make it happen ; i very much disapprove of that kind of design.
Hydras are supposed to grow heads , this is just ABUSING the tribal name and thats outright bad.
Card itself is fine.
Should simply NOT be a hydra, turtle ok, but hydra is so tacked on, like brute forcing a tribe into a card just because.
the only shimmer of flavor is that 5+ mana creatures can at least be hydras with X in them, but thats a super remote connection if at all, and again a forced synergy just to make it happen ; i very much disapprove of that kind of design.
Hard disagree. What if every merfolk needed islandwalk or every dragon needed firebreathing tacked on? That would be incredibly limiting and lead to the same old stale designs being used again and again with very little opportunity for variation. I believe having (X) in the cost is even more limiting than that. Having such a rigorous restriction applied to a creature type also means that deviations and interesting creature type combinations can't be created, like Malfegor, or the flying Merfolk Elf (name escapes me.) The more interesting variations in this card game, the better IMO.
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How about a Shark Hydra? Or even better, a Dragon Hydra?
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Those sound interesting. I think an angel hydra based off of some biblical depictions of angels with multiple heads, faces and wings could be awesome and leave room for artistic interpretation. The closest we have is the meld angels from the Innistrad return. An angel hydra could rely less on the body horror and just be a weird design like Kamigawa spirits or Lorwyn elementals
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This is a wonderful card, and one of the best of the cycle. I love the theme of turtle hydras, and of each plane within the Magic multiverse exploring classic mythological creatures in new and unique ways, including but not limited to not having all hydras following the Hydra itself, the Lernaean Hydra, unique and completely immortal child of Typhon and Echidna, who had one immortal head that could only be contained by trapping it under a rock, had heads that sprouted two in the place of one if not sealed shut with fire, whose heads could all spit deadly acid sprays, and whose blood was so deadly, a single dip of an arrow in its blood could slay any non-immortal monster struck by it. But since we're not talking about THE Hydra, and instead are talking about a whole and wildly varied class of creature since adopted into myth across the world and in many fantasy settings, I'm all for not every type of hydra having to regenerate heads like the child of Echidna and Typhon.
Kalonian Hydra, Bioessence Hydra, and both Phytohydras are actually the kind of hydras that the person you are quoting is talking about. They are growing heads in some way.
I agree hydras don't have to grow, but you are kind of proving their point a little.
Kalonian Hydra, Bioessence Hydra, and both Phytohydras are actually the kind of hydras that the person you are quoting is talking about. They are growing heads in some way.
I agree hydras don't have to grow, but you are kind of proving their point a little.
Not really? Bioessence, perhaps it's growing heads, perhaps it's getting larger. And Simic? The Simic Combine is often shown making things grow larger in an uncontrollable manner. So many biohazardous experiments of extreme growing out of control.
Kalonian? Nothing whatsoever indicates it's growing heads, what with it affecting every single creature you control. So unless its theme, not shown on the card in any way, shape, or form, is "I make all of you also have more than one head!", it's much more likely it's theme, which talks only about feeding time, and shows a gargantuan monster eating everything in sight, including trees, is about magically making everything around go on a feeding frenzy that cause them to all grow more and more massive.
The phytohydras, per Sprouting Phytohydra's text, are plant-like, including not merely growing out of control, but budding into more and more and more plants. Not at all like the Lernaean hydra, and very much classic plants growing out of control type stuff.
Regardless, they have no X in the cost or in the text, and there were thirteen examples provided. The oldest of which is from Stronghold, which was released over 21 years ago in March of 1998, and has exactly nothing whatsoever to do with growing more heads.
I actually agree that Hydras with static power/toughness or whatever just makes no sense for hydras. The core feature of hydras, the one thing they always have in common among all franchises is their variable number of heads.
Making hydras into the "go to" iconic creature type for green just makes no sense. I think manticores would make a much better stand in for hydras, especially now that there's precedent of flightless manticores. They represent the ferocity of the wild much better than hydras, especially since hydras seem more black/green with their focus on survival and (in the original source material) toxicity. Plus, manticores currently compete with dragons for the same design space and dragons are like omnipresent, because they're so popular.
That’s more like it that’s how good the hybrid mana spells are suppose to be
Sees play in limited and edh
Even though I do like it for a couple Commander decks, wondering where the "hydra" aspect of the card is. Should've gotten +1/+1 counters each time a power 5 or higher enters the battlefield under your control, or does something that has to do w/ growing or regenerating.
Is the multi-headed turtle an arturian trope i don't kniow about? It's already the second of the set
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Hydras are supposed to grow heads , this is just ABUSING the tribal name and thats outright bad.
Card itself is fine.
Should simply NOT be a hydra, turtle ok, but hydra is so tacked on, like brute forcing a tribe into a card just because.
the only shimmer of flavor is that 5+ mana creatures can at least be hydras with X in them, but thats a super remote connection if at all, and again a forced synergy just to make it happen ; i very much disapprove of that kind of design.
I actually agree that Hydras with static power/toughness or whatever just makes no sense for hydras. The core feature of hydras, the one thing they always have in common among all franchises is their variable number of heads.
Making hydras into the "go to" iconic creature type for green just makes no sense. I think manticores would make a much better stand in for hydras, especially now that there's precedent of flightless manticores. They represent the ferocity of the wild much better than hydras, especially since hydras seem more black/green with their focus on survival and (in the original source material) toxicity. Plus, manticores currently compete with dragons for the same design space and dragons are like omnipresent, because they're so popular.
Hydras represent green's theme of growth. Manticores in green are just lions with scorpion tails. While I personally view Manticores as red's answer to blue's Sphinxes, if I had to move Manticores to another color, it would be black.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I actually agree that Hydras with static power/toughness or whatever just makes no sense for hydras. The core feature of hydras, the one thing they always have in common among all franchises is their variable number of heads.
Making hydras into the "go to" iconic creature type for green just makes no sense. I think manticores would make a much better stand in for hydras, especially now that there's precedent of flightless manticores. They represent the ferocity of the wild much better than hydras, especially since hydras seem more black/green with their focus on survival and (in the original source material) toxicity. Plus, manticores currently compete with dragons for the same design space and dragons are like omnipresent, because they're so popular.
Hydras represent green's theme of growth. Manticores in green are just lions with scorpion tails. While I personally view Manticores as red's answer to blue's Sphinxes, if I had to move Manticores to another color, it would be black.
I would like to hear your case why Manticores fit better in black than green and why hydras are a better fit for green than manticores.
To me, manticores are apex predators that are everything a green iconic creature wants to be. Hydras are focused on survival, which is a perfect green/black overlap. Manticores in black makes no sense to me apart from "they are poisonous". To put it pointedly, the original hydra "had poisonous breath and blood so virulent that even its scent was deadly." If manticores in green are just lions with scorpion tails, what are hydras in green?
Hydras are massive creatures that can grow in size, armed with multiple maws. They're like hungry dinosaurs crossed with trees. They're everything green wants in an iconic. Plus the public at large identified Hydras with green more than any other iconic candidate. They've tried other types; Elementals, Treefolk, Wurms. Hydras won out.
As you said, Manticores are poisonous, thus why they'd probably be a better fit for black even than red, much like wyverns. Part of it is the fact black gets flying far more often than green. If Manticores had to have a third color, then it would probably be green, but they are nowhere near iconic status for green.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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That’s more like it that’s how good the hybrid mana spells are suppose to be
Sees play in limited and edh
A Hellion Hydra
Lizard Hydras
Plant Hydras
Snake Hydras
Hydra Beasts
Hydra Mutants
Jellyfish Hydra Beasts
A Hydra Avatar
And now Turtle Hydras. Crocodile Hydra when, Wizards?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Don't give them ideas.
Or actually, do give them ideas, that sounds amazing.
Hydras are supposed to grow heads , this is just ABUSING the tribal name and thats outright bad.
Card itself is fine.
Should simply NOT be a hydra, turtle ok, but hydra is so tacked on, like brute forcing a tribe into a card just because.
the only shimmer of flavor is that 5+ mana creatures can at least be hydras with X in them, but thats a super remote connection if at all, and again a forced synergy just to make it happen ; i very much disapprove of that kind of design.
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👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Show me on the doll where the card touched you.
Hard disagree. What if every merfolk needed islandwalk or every dragon needed firebreathing tacked on? That would be incredibly limiting and lead to the same old stale designs being used again and again with very little opportunity for variation. I believe having (X) in the cost is even more limiting than that. Having such a rigorous restriction applied to a creature type also means that deviations and interesting creature type combinations can't be created, like Malfegor, or the flying Merfolk Elf (name escapes me.) The more interesting variations in this card game, the better IMO.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
"Supposed to"? By what metric of "supposed to" in a fantasy world?
I mean, we certainly aren't talking about the Magic the Gathering multiverse, right?
This is a wonderful card, and one of the best of the cycle. I love the theme of turtle hydras, and of each plane within the Magic multiverse exploring classic mythological creatures in new and unique ways, including but not limited to not having all hydras following the Hydra itself, the Lernaean Hydra, unique and completely immortal child of Typhon and Echidna, who had one immortal head that could only be contained by trapping it under a rock, had heads that sprouted two in the place of one if not sealed shut with fire, whose heads could all spit deadly acid sprays, and whose blood was so deadly, a single dip of an arrow in its blood could slay any non-immortal monster struck by it. But since we're not talking about THE Hydra, and instead are talking about a whole and wildly varied class of creature since adopted into myth across the world and in many fantasy settings, I'm all for not every type of hydra having to regenerate heads like the child of Echidna and Typhon.
Kalonian Hydra, Bioessence Hydra, and both Phytohydras are actually the kind of hydras that the person you are quoting is talking about. They are growing heads in some way.
I agree hydras don't have to grow, but you are kind of proving their point a little.
Not really? Bioessence, perhaps it's growing heads, perhaps it's getting larger. And Simic? The Simic Combine is often shown making things grow larger in an uncontrollable manner. So many biohazardous experiments of extreme growing out of control.
Kalonian? Nothing whatsoever indicates it's growing heads, what with it affecting every single creature you control. So unless its theme, not shown on the card in any way, shape, or form, is "I make all of you also have more than one head!", it's much more likely it's theme, which talks only about feeding time, and shows a gargantuan monster eating everything in sight, including trees, is about magically making everything around go on a feeding frenzy that cause them to all grow more and more massive.
The phytohydras, per Sprouting Phytohydra's text, are plant-like, including not merely growing out of control, but budding into more and more and more plants. Not at all like the Lernaean hydra, and very much classic plants growing out of control type stuff.
Regardless, they have no X in the cost or in the text, and there were thirteen examples provided. The oldest of which is from Stronghold, which was released over 21 years ago in March of 1998, and has exactly nothing whatsoever to do with growing more heads.
Squirrel Hydra. Don't @ Me.
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Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Any spells that cost 5 or higher with some sort of cost reduction or alternate reduced cost.
I think the hydra synergy makes this enough of a hydra spell.
Making hydras into the "go to" iconic creature type for green just makes no sense. I think manticores would make a much better stand in for hydras, especially now that there's precedent of flightless manticores. They represent the ferocity of the wild much better than hydras, especially since hydras seem more black/green with their focus on survival and (in the original source material) toxicity. Plus, manticores currently compete with dragons for the same design space and dragons are like omnipresent, because they're so popular.
Even though I do like it for a couple Commander decks, wondering where the "hydra" aspect of the card is. Should've gotten +1/+1 counters each time a power 5 or higher enters the battlefield under your control, or does something that has to do w/ growing or regenerating.
Even more badass would be a Skeletal Hydra, Undead Hydra, Vampire Hydra, Spirit Hydra, or Elemental Hydra.
I completely agree with you in every single way.
Hydras represent green's theme of growth. Manticores in green are just lions with scorpion tails. While I personally view Manticores as red's answer to blue's Sphinxes, if I had to move Manticores to another color, it would be black.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I would like to hear your case why Manticores fit better in black than green and why hydras are a better fit for green than manticores.
To me, manticores are apex predators that are everything a green iconic creature wants to be. Hydras are focused on survival, which is a perfect green/black overlap. Manticores in black makes no sense to me apart from "they are poisonous". To put it pointedly, the original hydra "had poisonous breath and blood so virulent that even its scent was deadly." If manticores in green are just lions with scorpion tails, what are hydras in green?
As you said, Manticores are poisonous, thus why they'd probably be a better fit for black even than red, much like wyverns. Part of it is the fact black gets flying far more often than green. If Manticores had to have a third color, then it would probably be green, but they are nowhere near iconic status for green.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.