If there is any kind of legitimate problem, it is okay to respond to it, but our responses must be measured and reasonable. To pretend as though the problems men and women in our society face are equal, and thus our solutions to them must also be equal, is neither measured nor reasonable.
Perfectly said. I wish my comments were even half as eloquent and well-spoken as all of this (cropped to avoid huge quote, but I mean all of it)!
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"Everything falls apart. But living things fall apart in the most fascinating ways."
—Mowagh the Gwyllion, Fang Skulkin
Sorry I don’t see how asking for a dude to be with clothes covering his abs pack( when every other people wears clothes that are almost suited for winter )is non sense.
Sorry I don’t see how caring that every other male character can show a 6 pack abs is ok for children and young male (and maybe even adults) self image and self-esteem. Do you know how hard for some people getting a 6-pack belly is ? When I used to do gym there was teenages paying $40 for industrial protein just soo they could fit in what society thinks is atractive. Thats not healthy for everyone.
If there is any kind of legitimate problem, it is okay to respond to it, but our responses must be measured and reasonable.
Measured?? Reasonable?! Thems fightin' words!
Honestly, the solution to all this isn't for Oko to put a shirt on. It's for artists to stop thinking they need to make every character physically attractive. Make some fat guys. Old guys. Funny looking guys. And also hot beach bod guys, 'cause they exist too (and some people really wanna see that). Generally they relegate funny looks to goblins and ogres and such. There are precious few counterexamples. At least Feldon of the Third Path looks like an actual old man with an actual body.
Girls too. It's nice that they put some clothes on them, but they still all have perfectly sculpted model faces. I mean Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter is supposed to be old, but she looks like an attractive 30 year old who dyed her hair grey. She's prettier than like four different actual 30 year olds I know. Does every human planeswalker have to look like a model? Sorry, the rulebook says your spark can't activate unless you have at least 14 charisma.
Marvel and DC are the same way. You can't get superpowers unless you are jacked like a god and look good in spandex. And just because you work out all the time doesn't mean you can't have a pizza face. The only exceptions tend to be over-the-top designs like Blob. At least Toad looks like a normal skeezbag.
One great counterexample is She-Ra and the Princesses of Power (not talking about lgbt stuff here-- there's so much more to the show). If you look at the designs for characters like Glimmer, Entrapta, Scorpia, Mermista, Lonnie, and Kyle they all look like normal people. They're kinda adorable 'cause the whole show is pretty adorable but they don't have models' faces and beach bods. Sure, Bow, Adora, and Angella are conventionally attractive, but that's not unrealistic when you also have normal looking people around. Glimmer is shaped lake a gourd, but we still love her. Steven Universe is another great counterexample, and another great show.
Honestly, the solution to all this isn't for Oko to put a shirt on. It's for artists to stop thinking they need to make every character physically attractive. Make some fat guys. Old guys. Funny looking guys. And also hot beach bod guys, 'cause they exist too (and some people really wanna see that). Generally they relegate funny looks to goblins and ogres and such. There are precious few counterexamples. At least Feldon of the Third Path looks like an actual old man with an actual body.
Girls too. It's nice that they put some clothes on them, but they still all have perfectly sculpted model faces. I mean Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter is supposed to be old, but she looks like an attractive 30 year old who dyed her hair grey. She's prettier than like four different actual 30 year olds I know. Does every human planeswalker have to look like a model? Sorry, the rulebook says your spark can't activate unless you have at least 14 charisma.
Marvel and DC are the same way. You can't get superpowers unless you are jacked like a god and look good in spandex. And just because you work out all the time doesn't mean you can't have a pizza face. The only exceptions tend to be over-the-top designs like Blob. At least Toad looks like a normal skeezbag.
One great counterexample is She-Ra and the Princesses of Power (not talking about lgbt stuff here). If you look at the designs for characters like Glimmer, Entrapta, Scorpia, Lonnie, and Kyle they all look like normal people. They're kinda adorable 'cause the whole show is pretty adorable but they don't have models' faces and beach bods. Sure, Bow, Adora, and Angella are conventionally attractive, but that's not unrealistic when you also have normal looking people around. Glimmer is shaped lake a gourd, but we still love her.
I can get behind this.
It is kinda sad but yeah it looks like every main character (or a huge majority) have to be shaped as models. This kind of body image is not healthy for children, young adults and adults as well. Flbthp is one of the most popular magic character and he was done as a joke but even this joke looks more relatable than most main characters.
Yes and I agree with everything you said here! Ive been saying this man just read what ive said. Ive never said i had a problem with lgbtq characters i said that its a problem when their sexual orientation is just there for political reasons within our world and not at all a real addition to the development of good story, plot lines etc etc. thats all i pointed out for gods sakes.
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Yes and I agree with everything you said here! Ive been saying this man just read what ive said. Ive never said i had a problem with lgbtq characters i said that its a problem when their sexual orientation is just there for political reasons within our world and not at all a real addition to the development of good story, plot lines etc etc. thats all i pointed out for gods sakes.
You don’t have to say it for others to be able to infer it.
Please help me understand your mind set and why asking for less sexualized representation of male characters is bad or silly.
I think you’re arguing from a place of sincerity, so please don’t take this as an accusation. The answer to your question is because this issue, as it pertains to males, is usually a red herring meant to distract from someone’s underlying homophobia. If there’s a place to call out problems with male self-image, this probably isn’t it, or at least there are more productive ways to make that point. That very same point, though, is almost universally undermined when yet-another-shirtless-male is portrayed in Magic artwork, and a vocal minority cries out in one of two ways: “WotC are ruining Magic with their liberal agenda!”, or “why do we have to cover up women, but not the men?”. Neither of those are productive, and I’ve yet to see compelling evidence that these shirtless male tropes are actively damaging our society. So, in all fairness, should we trade demographics and statistics to see which classes are being harmed, and how? Do you have links to show me elevated risks of traditionally female health problems, like anorexia, due to how men are depicted in a fantasy setting?
Leslak, I think most feminists would say that body positivity applies to men as much as women. However, the discussion emphasizes women because overall they are impacted more by this issue. That doesn't mean that men's self-esteem doesn't matter, it does. But typically the way this discussion has gone in our society, feminists bring up an issue for women and anti-feminists reply "what about men?" And it's very telling that a discussion focused on women can't proceed in this context without bringing up men. This changes the topic, and conveys the sense that anti-feminists won't allow such a discussion*. That's why feminists tend to push back and dismiss questions about men. Unfortunately, what we see in our current society is a huge surge in anti-feminist sentiment. Maybe there's a practical problem with using dismissive rhetoric, but the intellectual problem of the "what about men?" behavior is a much bigger barrier to productive discussion.
*This thread is an even more severe form of derailment, where a guy said he hoped a gay character would be violently killed by another, more gender-conforming character, and the apologist for that guy immediately tried to change the topic to an issue that affected him, male body image. The topic of the discussion was literally hate speech against gay people, and he wanted to change it to be about himself instead. That's some pathological egocentrism.
Theres tons of evidence to support that its damaging to males
The documentary Bigger stronger faster as well as the one prescription thugs wherein you actually see the after affects of suicide from the issues it causes.
The NYT recently published an article of it i think this last week
Cornell issued a study on the phenomenon last year i believe
There are body building documentaries showing the affects its had on the psyche of many males who have embarked on never ending journeys to obtain the ideal physique embedded in their minds by comics, games, movies etc. this is seen on the documentary with greg valantino wherein he suffered such major body image issues that his arms were almost amputated from the amount of drugs.
So there are 4 things you can look at that span 10 years show casing the psychological issues men face from body images shown to them.
You seem to think only lgbtq and women can suffer and face adversity. Now that you have equality you fight for special treatment and diminish the troubles others face. I dont see why right here isnt a good place to talk about this issue. If it bothers a guy he has every right to say it just like you have every right to call me a bigot and what not and complain that there isnt enough representation of lgbtq individuals. And stop acting like its not an issue. Its an issue that has plagued young men for 30-40 years and has been largely ignored.
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[Well my phone can’t randle too much links, soo I will have to post things and edit this post with links as I write it (possibly low memory because of low battery and the phone saving energy )]
-Those 2 links show how body image and self esteem on young males are partly because of mídia and cultural steriotypes of male body. (I will have to look for the study about how going to the gym and how teens are more liked to overtrain and how sometimes this can cause health prejudice to them)
[(Will also post relevant links for how young people can and often do use fictional(not only fantasy but also real life(actors, and other artists)) characters as hole models and also as steriotypes of how “normal people” should look. ]
-A study of how parasocial relationships with fictional characters can affect people and be aspirations for those or guiding ways of how they should look:
I never changed the topic i addressed it from the get go from the very first “apologist” comment i posted.
And i said often that this was to point out the inherent hypocrisy in the inclusion and diversity ideology as well as the hypocrisy in the preference for protecting females from body image issues but not men. I addressed all of this in my initial comments.
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You are completely right with everything youve said and you bring up nothing but solid points and evidence. You cant sway this community bc theyre stuck on vritue signalling, and diversity first and for most and everything else second.
Anything that detracts from that agenda is minimized and diminished like male body image issues. See how they dismiss you and say this isnt the place? Thats exactly the hypocrisy ive been talking about for the last 2-3 pages. Its nothing but hypocritical disingenuous ppl who can put their bias aside bc it detracts from the agenda.
Im done here. This game will be done in a few years, the netflix show will be a flop and the lore will continue to plummet in quality as it has in the last few years. The ONLY thing keeping this game alive is the gameplay. This will go way of star wars, mcu, oceans 8, ghost busters, etc etc unless something is done about the diversity and inclusion politics and this special treatment and over representation and negligence known as “equity” around here.
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its amazing to see people on here miss the point so amazingly. a few pages ago somebody said "oh look the alt right are coming out", because if you dont like stupid flamboyant character designs year after year from a company that employees sanctimonious hypocritical twitter police types, you MUST be 'alt-right', whatever the hell that even means,...
the biggest problem with all of this isnt the depiction of handsome male characters with chests exposed, its the fact that the company only hires and affiliates itself with the most bigoted types of sjws. the problem is if an employee at WOTC said to his co-workers "i love the classic conan stuff, that traditional fantasy stuff" it would be seen as 'problematic' and he'd probably be fired. and so for years the company has been on a crusade to completely emasculate itself. to remove even the slightest depiction of heroic traditional masculinity, and replace it with often obnoxious depictions of women fullfilling those roles, almost as if women are allowed to be masculine now and men arent. i mean its hard to even explain it because it just sounds so stupid, but that is whats happening.
the 'special snowflakes' maro described dont get triggered by a single artwork with a sexy man on it, nor do they 'need therapy' over it, the artwork represents a massive trend throughout ALL popculture to emasculate it and allow women exclusivity to being the 'badass's'.
and you really have to ask WHY? are they chasing an audience they dont have? do they think traditional fantasy art was 'problematic'? why was it problematic? why was it ever a 'problem' that there were was media targeted more exclusively at men? did old conan stories invoke 'toxic masculinity' in its readers? (the answer is empirically NO)
im just asking questions here really. what i think is happening is, from WOTCs perspective, if men and women can just be merged into a single demographic of doughy soy-based NPCs, then the company just has to market its product to that one diluted audience and give them a stupid 'ready-for-cosplay' character every year. and to hell with fantasy art that complexly reflects and explores the light and the dark, the benevolent and the evil, the hope and despair inherent to the human soul
I guarantee i am smarter than you. You fail to see that when wotc or whatever company makes a gay character for the sake of diversity it would more than likely be a rushed, forced narrative instead Of a well developed character that happens to be gay. This is the same situation that star wars has found itself in but with a different set of people.
You may be smarter than everyone here, but surely you are ignorant as **** (quite common problem between americans). I guess you hould try to search some images about Puck or Oberon and you'll surely see that a shirtless flamboyant guys isn't so preposterous, if we are talking about fairies.
the biggest problem with all of this isnt the depiction of handsome male characters with chests exposed, its the fact that the company only hires and affiliates itself with the most bigoted types of sjws. the problem is if an employee at WOTC said to his co-workers "i love the classic conan stuff, that traditional fantasy stuff" it would be seen as 'problematic' and he'd probably be fired. and so for years the company has been on a crusade to completely emasculate itself. to remove even the slightest depiction of heroic traditional masculinity, and replace it with often obnoxious depictions of women fullfilling those roles, almost as if women are allowed to be masculine now and men arent. i mean its hard to even explain it because it just sounds so stupid, but that is whats happening.
Oh yeah, again the lie of people being fired/hired for sjw. People point me a real name of someone fired by wotc because he didn't want to be "emasculated"
Yeah guess what, you can't
So much for a guy throwing around words like "empirically".
Empirically, Jace is still the male nerd so smart that can solve every problems with a few tricks
Empirically, Gideon is still the buff male that held the awesome weapon and was also so heroic to sacrifice himself and save everyone
Don't get mad just because Liliana and Chandra got their time to shine too, or because right know it seems that Rowan will have a bigger role than Will
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Oh yeah, again the lie of people being fired/hired for sjw. People point me a real name of someone fired by wotc because he didn't want to be "emasculated"
Yeah guess what, you can't
So much for a guy throwing around words like "empirically".
Empirically, Jace is still the male nerd so smart that can solve every problems with a few tricks
Empirically, Gideon is still the buff male that held the awesome weapon and was also so heroic to sacrifice himself and save everyone
Don't get mad just because Liliana and Chandra got their time to shine too, or because right know it seems that Rowan will have a bigger role than Will
OMG this is so amazing. i literally said "IF an employee at WOTC" ect ect, but you see what you want to see and acuse me of lying! hahahaha congradulations on losing the argument. the whole point is that said employee CANT 'come out of the closet' so to speak as a fan of classic Conan. the point is this happens on a frequent basis at other companies and if you aren't aware of that then who knows what rock you're living under hahahahaha
and ps. jace and gideon suck as characters, so thanks again for making my point for me
Yea im ignorant thats why mcu, star wars, and many other storylines and franchises are not only losing fans left and right because of the things ive outlined but have admitted that the quality has suffered because of it. But okay. Im the ignorant one for pointing out the mistake perpetuated by countless other media. Im ignorant but countless young men are being psychologically fu**ed by the issues they face in said media who seems to coddle everyone else but them just as ive pointed out. Oh its for “equity” aka special treatment. Gotcha!
I never changed the topic i addressed it from the get go from the very first “apologist” comment i posted.
And i said often that this was to point out the inherent hypocrisy in the inclusion and diversity ideology as well as the hypocrisy in the preference for protecting females from body image issues but not men. I addressed all of this in my initial comments.
You seem to suffer from the frankly delusional assumption that everything you say is reasonable by virtue of the fact that you said it. This leads you to make a series of empty, baseless assertions like "I guarantee I'm smarter than you" or "I didn't change the topic of the thread." Such assertions comprise the bulk of your posts, which you take to be arguments. They are not, and thus do not warrant serious treatment.
But really though, what hypocrisy, exactly? I just said that male body image issues are important. The importance of female body issues do not make them unimportant or vice versa. In fact, it's not necessary for every conversation to be all about you at all times. People can talk about and care about other things than yourself and it does not make them hypocrites. Even after "bowing out," though, here you are. No matter what, you just can't stop yourself from compulsively talking about yourself and making yourself the center of attention.
Oh yeah, again the lie of people being fired/hired for sjw. People point me a real name of someone fired by wotc because he didn't want to be "emasculated"
Yeah guess what, you can't
So much for a guy throwing around words like "empirically".
Empirically, Jace is still the male nerd so smart that can solve every problems with a few tricks
Empirically, Gideon is still the buff male that held the awesome weapon and was also so heroic to sacrifice himself and save everyone
Don't get mad just because Liliana and Chandra got their time to shine too, or because right know it seems that Rowan will have a bigger role than Will
OMG this is so amazing. i literally said "IF an employee at WOTC" ect ect, but you see what you want to see and acuse me of lying! hahahaha congradulations on losing the argument. the whole point is that said employee CANT 'come out of the closet' so to speak as a fan of classic Conan. the point is this happens on a frequent basis at other companies and if you aren't aware of that then who knows what rock you're living under hahahahaha
and ps. jace and gideon suck as characters, so thanks again for making my point for me
I have an honest question for you. How old are you?
Lol Wow youre so smart with your psycho analysis. Its my ego that wants to keep talking right? It has nothing to do with how your ideology and everyone elses ideology here is not just ruining other franchises but has rooted itself so firmly in this one that now the lgbtq community tells other ppl who are experiencing adversity that “this isnt the place to state their grievances” and calls young men with self esteem and body image issues “neck beards” and calles the issues “red herrings” bc lgbtq issues are more important bc equity.
I bowed out but its So difficult to turn away from the ppl who perpetuate the problem and claim its the morally higher ground while all it does is erode this franchise as it has withered all the others.
Im not going to go back and reiterate where the hypocrisy is as i have done so at least 3 times now. If you care then just go back a fee threads and reread what i initially stated.
If you have nothing more to say just stop quoting me and leave it at that. Let me suffer from my delusion as I respectfully let others suffer from theirs.
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If you have nothing more to say just stop quoting me and leave it at that. Let me suffer from my delusion as I respectfully let others suffer from theirs.
The lack of self awareness you display is extraordinary.
Why is it that the most annoying people are also the least in touch with reality?
Lol im the one thats out of touch? Holy sh** i needed a good laugh.
Im just gonna bite my tongue and refrain from saying what is quite possibly the most obvious rebuttal to that statement. Bc then ppl would really be offended and further wrapped in their emotions.
Now Im done here bc I really dont want to offend more ppl than I supposedly already have.
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Lol im the one thats out of touch? Holy sh** i needed a good laugh.
Im just gonna bite my tongue and refrain from saying what is quite possibly the most obvious rebuttal to that statement. Bc then ppl would really be offended and further wrapped in their emotions.
Now Im done here bc I really dont want to offend more ppl than I supposedly already have.
BTW, someone as brilliant as yourself should really use better grammar. Otherwise people might get the idea that you’re just a dimwit playing at being an intellectual on the internet.
Yea im ignorant thats why mcu, star wars, and many other storylines and franchises are not only losing fans left and right because of the things ive outlined but have admitted that the quality has suffered because of it. But okay. Im the ignorant one for pointing out the mistake perpetuated by countless other media. Im ignorant but countless young men are being psychologically fu**ed by the issues they face in said media who seems to coddle everyone else but them just as ive pointed out. Oh its for “equity” aka special treatment. Gotcha!
Yes, MCU and Star Wars are losing fans, that's why Avengers sold like crazy and I'm sure Star Wars is doing fine as well. *sighs* It's an extremely minority problem from altright sexist/homophobic/otherwise bigoted nerds that aren't worth catering to. If it really was causing financial devastation then companies would stop doing it. Surprisingly it is more profitable to expand your overall customer base than to appeal to a very small niche group.
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Perfectly said. I wish my comments were even half as eloquent and well-spoken as all of this (cropped to avoid huge quote, but I mean all of it)!
—Mowagh the Gwyllion, Fang Skulkin
Sorry I don’t see how caring that every other male character can show a 6 pack abs is ok for children and young male (and maybe even adults) self image and self-esteem. Do you know how hard for some people getting a 6-pack belly is ? When I used to do gym there was teenages paying $40 for industrial protein just soo they could fit in what society thinks is atractive. Thats not healthy for everyone.
Measured?? Reasonable?! Thems fightin' words!
Honestly, the solution to all this isn't for Oko to put a shirt on. It's for artists to stop thinking they need to make every character physically attractive. Make some fat guys. Old guys. Funny looking guys. And also hot beach bod guys, 'cause they exist too (and some people really wanna see that). Generally they relegate funny looks to goblins and ogres and such. There are precious few counterexamples. At least Feldon of the Third Path looks like an actual old man with an actual body.
Girls too. It's nice that they put some clothes on them, but they still all have perfectly sculpted model faces. I mean Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter is supposed to be old, but she looks like an attractive 30 year old who dyed her hair grey. She's prettier than like four different actual 30 year olds I know. Does every human planeswalker have to look like a model? Sorry, the rulebook says your spark can't activate unless you have at least 14 charisma.
Marvel and DC are the same way. You can't get superpowers unless you are jacked like a god and look good in spandex. And just because you work out all the time doesn't mean you can't have a pizza face. The only exceptions tend to be over-the-top designs like Blob. At least Toad looks like a normal skeezbag.
One great counterexample is She-Ra and the Princesses of Power (not talking about lgbt stuff here-- there's so much more to the show). If you look at the designs for characters like Glimmer, Entrapta, Scorpia, Mermista, Lonnie, and Kyle they all look like normal people. They're kinda adorable 'cause the whole show is pretty adorable but they don't have models' faces and beach bods. Sure, Bow, Adora, and Angella are conventionally attractive, but that's not unrealistic when you also have normal looking people around. Glimmer is shaped lake a gourd, but we still love her. Steven Universe is another great counterexample, and another great show.
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I can get behind this.
It is kinda sad but yeah it looks like every main character (or a huge majority) have to be shaped as models. This kind of body image is not healthy for children, young adults and adults as well. Flbthp is one of the most popular magic character and he was done as a joke but even this joke looks more relatable than most main characters.
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You don’t have to say it for others to be able to infer it.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I think you’re arguing from a place of sincerity, so please don’t take this as an accusation. The answer to your question is because this issue, as it pertains to males, is usually a red herring meant to distract from someone’s underlying homophobia. If there’s a place to call out problems with male self-image, this probably isn’t it, or at least there are more productive ways to make that point. That very same point, though, is almost universally undermined when yet-another-shirtless-male is portrayed in Magic artwork, and a vocal minority cries out in one of two ways: “WotC are ruining Magic with their liberal agenda!”, or “why do we have to cover up women, but not the men?”. Neither of those are productive, and I’ve yet to see compelling evidence that these shirtless male tropes are actively damaging our society. So, in all fairness, should we trade demographics and statistics to see which classes are being harmed, and how? Do you have links to show me elevated risks of traditionally female health problems, like anorexia, due to how men are depicted in a fantasy setting?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
*This thread is an even more severe form of derailment, where a guy said he hoped a gay character would be violently killed by another, more gender-conforming character, and the apologist for that guy immediately tried to change the topic to an issue that affected him, male body image. The topic of the discussion was literally hate speech against gay people, and he wanted to change it to be about himself instead. That's some pathological egocentrism.
The documentary Bigger stronger faster as well as the one prescription thugs wherein you actually see the after affects of suicide from the issues it causes.
The NYT recently published an article of it i think this last week
Cornell issued a study on the phenomenon last year i believe
There are body building documentaries showing the affects its had on the psyche of many males who have embarked on never ending journeys to obtain the ideal physique embedded in their minds by comics, games, movies etc. this is seen on the documentary with greg valantino wherein he suffered such major body image issues that his arms were almost amputated from the amount of drugs.
So there are 4 things you can look at that span 10 years show casing the psychological issues men face from body images shown to them.
You seem to think only lgbtq and women can suffer and face adversity. Now that you have equality you fight for special treatment and diminish the troubles others face. I dont see why right here isnt a good place to talk about this issue. If it bothers a guy he has every right to say it just like you have every right to call me a bigot and what not and complain that there isnt enough representation of lgbtq individuals. And stop acting like its not an issue. Its an issue that has plagued young men for 30-40 years and has been largely ignored.
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-Those 2 links show how body image and self esteem on young males are partly because of mídia and cultural steriotypes of male body. (I will have to look for the study about how going to the gym and how teens are more liked to overtrain and how sometimes this can cause health prejudice to them)
- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/mens-health/10825083/No-wonder-young-men-have-a-problem-with-self-esteem.html
- https://www.themix.org.uk/mental-health/body-image-and-self-esteem/male-body-image-and-too-much-exercise-26158.html
Will have to look out for the free article about addiction to exercises on teenages. There is some books about it tho
https://scholar.google.com.br/scholar?hl=pt-BR&as_sdt=0,5&q=teen gym over addiction injuries&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=#p=Q6gUvP1_2IUJ
[(Will also post relevant links for how young people can and often do use fictional(not only fantasy but also real life(actors, and other artists)) characters as hole models and also as steriotypes of how “normal people” should look. ]
-A study of how parasocial relationships with fictional characters can affect people and be aspirations for those or guiding ways of how they should look:
https://digitalcommons.lesley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1075&context=expressive_theses
Although the following study is not that relevant about body image, it is interesting how they sumarize the attachment that humans can do with fictional characters:
- http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.843.5833&rep=rep1&type=pdf
And i said often that this was to point out the inherent hypocrisy in the inclusion and diversity ideology as well as the hypocrisy in the preference for protecting females from body image issues but not men. I addressed all of this in my initial comments.
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You are completely right with everything youve said and you bring up nothing but solid points and evidence. You cant sway this community bc theyre stuck on vritue signalling, and diversity first and for most and everything else second.
Anything that detracts from that agenda is minimized and diminished like male body image issues. See how they dismiss you and say this isnt the place? Thats exactly the hypocrisy ive been talking about for the last 2-3 pages. Its nothing but hypocritical disingenuous ppl who can put their bias aside bc it detracts from the agenda.
Im done here. This game will be done in a few years, the netflix show will be a flop and the lore will continue to plummet in quality as it has in the last few years. The ONLY thing keeping this game alive is the gameplay. This will go way of star wars, mcu, oceans 8, ghost busters, etc etc unless something is done about the diversity and inclusion politics and this special treatment and over representation and negligence known as “equity” around here.
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the biggest problem with all of this isnt the depiction of handsome male characters with chests exposed, its the fact that the company only hires and affiliates itself with the most bigoted types of sjws. the problem is if an employee at WOTC said to his co-workers "i love the classic conan stuff, that traditional fantasy stuff" it would be seen as 'problematic' and he'd probably be fired. and so for years the company has been on a crusade to completely emasculate itself. to remove even the slightest depiction of heroic traditional masculinity, and replace it with often obnoxious depictions of women fullfilling those roles, almost as if women are allowed to be masculine now and men arent. i mean its hard to even explain it because it just sounds so stupid, but that is whats happening.
the 'special snowflakes' maro described dont get triggered by a single artwork with a sexy man on it, nor do they 'need therapy' over it, the artwork represents a massive trend throughout ALL popculture to emasculate it and allow women exclusivity to being the 'badass's'.
and you really have to ask WHY? are they chasing an audience they dont have? do they think traditional fantasy art was 'problematic'? why was it problematic? why was it ever a 'problem' that there were was media targeted more exclusively at men? did old conan stories invoke 'toxic masculinity' in its readers? (the answer is empirically NO)
im just asking questions here really. what i think is happening is, from WOTCs perspective, if men and women can just be merged into a single demographic of doughy soy-based NPCs, then the company just has to market its product to that one diluted audience and give them a stupid 'ready-for-cosplay' character every year. and to hell with fantasy art that complexly reflects and explores the light and the dark, the benevolent and the evil, the hope and despair inherent to the human soul
You may be smarter than everyone here, but surely you are ignorant as **** (quite common problem between americans). I guess you hould try to search some images about Puck or Oberon and you'll surely see that a shirtless flamboyant guys isn't so preposterous, if we are talking about fairies.
Oh yeah, again the lie of people being fired/hired for sjw. People point me a real name of someone fired by wotc because he didn't want to be "emasculated"
Yeah guess what, you can't
So much for a guy throwing around words like "empirically".
Empirically, Jace is still the male nerd so smart that can solve every problems with a few tricks
Empirically, Gideon is still the buff male that held the awesome weapon and was also so heroic to sacrifice himself and save everyone
Don't get mad just because Liliana and Chandra got their time to shine too, or because right know it seems that Rowan will have a bigger role than Will
OMG this is so amazing. i literally said "IF an employee at WOTC" ect ect, but you see what you want to see and acuse me of lying! hahahaha congradulations on losing the argument. the whole point is that said employee CANT 'come out of the closet' so to speak as a fan of classic Conan. the point is this happens on a frequent basis at other companies and if you aren't aware of that then who knows what rock you're living under hahahahaha
and ps. jace and gideon suck as characters, so thanks again for making my point for me
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You seem to suffer from the frankly delusional assumption that everything you say is reasonable by virtue of the fact that you said it. This leads you to make a series of empty, baseless assertions like "I guarantee I'm smarter than you" or "I didn't change the topic of the thread." Such assertions comprise the bulk of your posts, which you take to be arguments. They are not, and thus do not warrant serious treatment.
But really though, what hypocrisy, exactly? I just said that male body image issues are important. The importance of female body issues do not make them unimportant or vice versa. In fact, it's not necessary for every conversation to be all about you at all times. People can talk about and care about other things than yourself and it does not make them hypocrites. Even after "bowing out," though, here you are. No matter what, you just can't stop yourself from compulsively talking about yourself and making yourself the center of attention.
I have an honest question for you. How old are you?
ageism! younger people are inferior to old? or other way round? boy oh boy you're lucky you dont work at WOTC cause you would get fired so fast!
I bowed out but its So difficult to turn away from the ppl who perpetuate the problem and claim its the morally higher ground while all it does is erode this franchise as it has withered all the others.
Im not going to go back and reiterate where the hypocrisy is as i have done so at least 3 times now. If you care then just go back a fee threads and reread what i initially stated.
If you have nothing more to say just stop quoting me and leave it at that. Let me suffer from my delusion as I respectfully let others suffer from theirs.
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I’m going to go ahead and assume that you’re an edgy teenager who’s trying out a persona that you picked up online.
The lack of self awareness you display is extraordinary.
Why is it that the most annoying people are also the least in touch with reality?
Im just gonna bite my tongue and refrain from saying what is quite possibly the most obvious rebuttal to that statement. Bc then ppl would really be offended and further wrapped in their emotions.
Now Im done here bc I really dont want to offend more ppl than I supposedly already have.
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BTW, someone as brilliant as yourself should really use better grammar. Otherwise people might get the idea that you’re just a dimwit playing at being an intellectual on the internet.
Yes, MCU and Star Wars are losing fans, that's why Avengers sold like crazy and I'm sure Star Wars is doing fine as well. *sighs* It's an extremely minority problem from altright sexist/homophobic/otherwise bigoted nerds that aren't worth catering to. If it really was causing financial devastation then companies would stop doing it. Surprisingly it is more profitable to expand your overall customer base than to appeal to a very small niche group.