Is this the smallest/cheapest demon to date?
Not counting changelings, of course.
I wouldn't mind having this "different mana cost matters" becoming a recurring mechanic in the future.
There are two 2 CMC demons Rakshasa Deathdealer from Khans and the undying switch sides one from Avacyn Treacherous Pit-Dweller been at least a handful of 3 CMC ones before like the 5/5 flier that drew opponents cards, the 4/3 flier that saced your other creatures and I think there was a -1/-1 counter themed one from Amonkhet. Being a 0/0 though kinda makes smallest an easy win though lol.
Just to clarify this again, while those certainly are different CMCs and therefore different mana costs, you can ALSO have different mana costs within each CMC, like the example explicitly laid out on the card.
Fun card but I don't know how this is in a core set instead of like Modern Horizons - multiple people here have already confused how it works.
Huh. Gonna have to find more cards to slot into the curve, then.
Even in constructed, you can drop this guy on curve with three +1/+1 counters easy. And if one dies, well then he's fuel for the next one.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Is this the smallest/cheapest demon to date?
Not counting changelings, of course.
I wouldn't mind having this "different mana cost matters" becoming a recurring mechanic in the future.
There are two 2 CMC demons Rakshasa Deathdealer from Khans and the undying switch sides one from Avacyn Treacherous Pit-Dweller been at least a handful of 3 CMC ones before like the 5/5 flier that drew opponents cards, the 4/3 flier that saced your other creatures and I think there was a -1/-1 counter themed one from Amonkhet. Being a 0/0 though kinda makes smallest an easy win though lol.
Really forgot that Rakshasa from Tarkir have the demon subtype.
Next time I'll take my time to make a fast search on the gatherer
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I remember people calling Tarmogoyf underwhelming at first.
this has the potential to be bigger than Tarmogoyf plus has 2 evasion keywords.
What keeps it back is that it doesn't grow stronger if it is already on the field, but on the other hand it doesn't shrink if the graveyard is removed from the game after it hit the field.
Has its pros and cons if compared to tarmogoyf, but one thing is sure, it clearly has much potential.
Disclaimer: Following comment is based on what i understand thusfar in regards to the "(For example, 2B and 1BB are different mana costs.)" explanation and understanding of the current modern format
When comparing this card to Tarmogoyf you have to do so in the context of eternal formats and mainly modern midrange, since that's where that card is played most.
The modern format is also one where 4toughness is a very important feature to have on a creature to be considered playable if it doesn't come with protection or some way to gain value from it before it gets removed. Otherwise it has to be cost efficient so that the 1v1 trade into fo a Lightning Bolt, for instance, is worth it.
With the current speed of the format, curve is also of some importance and considering these factors, this guy has to land on curve with at least 4 different mana costing nonland cards in the yard.
To my limited knowledge, only RBx based midrange decks can do that (easilly) using loot/rummage spells. But the decks that run those, don't run Goyf.
I've tried to sequence T1, T2, T3 in existing GBx midrange shells. In those existing decks, my own traverse list could potentially do this, but often this is not the best line of play and heavilly dependent on the opponent's game plan.
The card definitely has some build around potential but imho this creature will hardly ever be cast on curve as a 4/4 and should be considered a fininsher for the late(r) game. It then can enter as a 4/4 or bigger deathtouch/flying threat, depending on build. Which is very, very good.
I can see myself trying out 1 or 2 of these in my list, but to do so, i want to cut on the top end.
I'm pretty sure people would play goyf in standard if it was available. So you're suggestion means nothing to people that play standard, which is rather popular. Simply playing a stitcher's supplier and having it chump puts 7 cards into the yard. Not to mention turn two play. That's basically 8 cards in the yard on curve. Pretty good shot to hit a 4/4 flyer deathtouch. You don't even have to build a graveyard intensive deck to hold this up on turn 5 with a counterspell or whatever play.
Disclaimer: Following comment is based on what i understand thusfar in regards to the "(For example, 2B and 1BB are different mana costs.)" explanation and understanding of the current modern format
When comparing this card to Tarmogoyf you have to do so in the context of eternal formats and mainly modern midrange, since that's where that card is played most.
The modern format is also one where 4toughness is a very important feature to have on a creature to be considered playable if it doesn't come with protection or some way to gain value from it before it gets removed. Otherwise it has to be cost efficient so that the 1v1 trade into fo a Lightning Bolt, for instance, is worth it.
With the current speed of the format, curve is also of some importance and considering these factors, this guy has to land on curve with at least 4 different mana costing nonland cards in the yard.
To my limited knowledge, only RBx based midrange decks can do that (easilly) using loot/rummage spells. But the decks that run those, don't run Goyf.
I've tried to sequence T1, T2, T3 in existing GBx midrange shells. In those existing decks, my own traverse list could potentially do this, but often this is not the best line of play and heavilly dependent on the opponent's game plan.
The card definitely has some build around potential but imho this creature will hardly ever be cast on curve as a 4/4 and should be considered a fininsher for the late(r) game. It then can enter as a 4/4 or bigger deathtouch/flying threat, depending on build. Which is very, very good.
I can see myself trying out 1 or 2 of these in my list, but to do so, i want to cut on the top end.
Add faithless looting and surgical extraction and this demon 6/6 on turn 3
Disclaimer: Following comment is based on what i understand thusfar in regards to the "(For example, 2B and 1BB are different mana costs.)" explanation and understanding of the current modern format
When comparing this card to Tarmogoyf you have to do so in the context of eternal formats and mainly modern midrange, since that's where that card is played most.
The modern format is also one where 4toughness is a very important feature to have on a creature to be considered playable if it doesn't come with protection or some way to gain value from it before it gets removed. Otherwise it has to be cost efficient so that the 1v1 trade into fo a Lightning Bolt, for instance, is worth it.
With the current speed of the format, curve is also of some importance and considering these factors, this guy has to land on curve with at least 4 different mana costing nonland cards in the yard.
To my limited knowledge, only RBx based midrange decks can do that (easilly) using loot/rummage spells. But the decks that run those, don't run Goyf.
I've tried to sequence T1, T2, T3 in existing GBx midrange shells. In those existing decks, my own traverse list could potentially do this, but often this is not the best line of play and heavilly dependent on the opponent's game plan.
The card definitely has some build around potential but imho this creature will hardly ever be cast on curve as a 4/4 and should be considered a fininsher for the late(r) game. It then can enter as a 4/4 or bigger deathtouch/flying threat, depending on build. Which is very, very good.
I can see myself trying out 1 or 2 of these in my list, but to do so, i want to cut on the top end.
Add faithless looting and surgical extraction and this demon 6/6 on turn 3
It's also worth remembering that black is the color of Liliana of the Veil, StreetWraith and a few other tasty tidbits. It should be relatively trivial to get this guy to a decent size in Modern, maybe a T4 play rather than a T3 play as I think I'd rather Lilly on 3 and use her discard 2x for control and demon chow.
Umm, junk rare. Two black makes it hard to construct around for trying to get multi colored cards, and even if you do manage to get cards into graveyard early, even in two colors, probably only going to be a 3/3. The other half of the time it'll be a 2/2 or worse.
The fact that it's ETB means that it doesn't benefit from graveyard at a later stage. At least something like Consuming Aberration scales as the games goes on. So does Tarmogoyf.
I'm sure some people will try to build around it in constructed, but figure out that it's just a little too much effort for a 4/4 flyer (investing resources, time and mana) at best and an over-costed creature the rest of the time.
Ummm, definitely not a junk rare. It’s playability has yet to be determined, but the potential is there. On curve, this likely arrives as a 3/3 flying deathtoucher. Not phenomenal, but far from bad. This isn’t a terrible top-deck, either, where the p/t is as varied as your deck wants it to be. It’s a fantastic Unearth target, and also can be recurred via Vesperlark.
I prefer that it doesn’t scale in real-time, because then grave-hate becomes a 2 for 1.
These types of maybe good/maybe bad cards are my favorite finance spec targets. If you buy in at a $1 or so, you don't really lose much, but if the card takes off the price will spike HARD.
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There are two 2 CMC demons Rakshasa Deathdealer from Khans and the undying switch sides one from Avacyn Treacherous Pit-Dweller been at least a handful of 3 CMC ones before like the 5/5 flier that drew opponents cards, the 4/3 flier that saced your other creatures and I think there was a -1/-1 counter themed one from Amonkhet. Being a 0/0 though kinda makes smallest an easy win though lol.
Huh. Gonna have to find more cards to slot into the curve, then.
Even in constructed, you can drop this guy on curve with three +1/+1 counters easy. And if one dies, well then he's fuel for the next one.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Next time I'll take my time to make a fast search on the gatherer
Seems like a unique take on a demon drawback.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
What keeps it back is that it doesn't grow stronger if it is already on the field, but on the other hand it doesn't shrink if the graveyard is removed from the game after it hit the field.
Has its pros and cons if compared to tarmogoyf, but one thing is sure, it clearly has much potential.
When comparing this card to Tarmogoyf you have to do so in the context of eternal formats and mainly modern midrange, since that's where that card is played most.
The modern format is also one where 4toughness is a very important feature to have on a creature to be considered playable if it doesn't come with protection or some way to gain value from it before it gets removed. Otherwise it has to be cost efficient so that the 1v1 trade into fo a Lightning Bolt, for instance, is worth it.
With the current speed of the format, curve is also of some importance and considering these factors, this guy has to land on curve with at least 4 different mana costing nonland cards in the yard.
To my limited knowledge, only RBx based midrange decks can do that (easilly) using loot/rummage spells. But the decks that run those, don't run Goyf.
I've tried to sequence T1, T2, T3 in existing GBx midrange shells. In those existing decks, my own traverse list could potentially do this, but often this is not the best line of play and heavilly dependent on the opponent's game plan.
Sequence i.e.:
* T1: Thoughtseize/Inquisition + Mishra's Bauble
* T2: Traverse + Path
* T3: Demon with 4 counters.
The card definitely has some build around potential but imho this creature will hardly ever be cast on curve as a 4/4 and should be considered a fininsher for the late(r) game. It then can enter as a 4/4 or bigger deathtouch/flying threat, depending on build. Which is very, very good.
I can see myself trying out 1 or 2 of these in my list, but to do so, i want to cut on the top end.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Add faithless looting and surgical extraction and this demon 6/6 on turn 3
It's also worth remembering that black is the color of Liliana of the Veil, StreetWraith and a few other tasty tidbits. It should be relatively trivial to get this guy to a decent size in Modern, maybe a T4 play rather than a T3 play as I think I'd rather Lilly on 3 and use her discard 2x for control and demon chow.
Yes, the key here is that it's not different converted mana costs, but different mana costs.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
seems pretty decent, but it's so ridiculously weird it could do absolutely nothing or shape the entire meta around it.
love the design.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Ummm, definitely not a junk rare. It’s playability has yet to be determined, but the potential is there. On curve, this likely arrives as a 3/3 flying deathtoucher. Not phenomenal, but far from bad. This isn’t a terrible top-deck, either, where the p/t is as varied as your deck wants it to be. It’s a fantastic Unearth target, and also can be recurred via Vesperlark.
I prefer that it doesn’t scale in real-time, because then grave-hate becomes a 2 for 1.
This demon will see some play. Far from junk.