It's about time we got another ninja, there have been how many slivers previewed so far? Not to mention not a single B/G card If this is supposed to be an archetype, lets see the cards.
It's about time we got another ninja, there have been how many slivers previewed so far? Not to mention not a single B/G card If this is supposed to be an archetype, lets see the cards.
There wasn't anything about BG archetype in today's article. Just Slivers, Goblins, Snow and Ninja.
It's about time we got another ninja, there have been how many slivers previewed so far? Not to mention not a single B/G card If this is supposed to be an archetype, lets see the cards.
Did Umezawa teach some people about ninjas on Dominaria, then someone bright this knowledge to Kalasesh or something?
Vedalken exist on multiple worlds, and logically, so would ninjas.
We know Vedalken exist on both Ravnica and Kaladesh (and used to exist on the plane formerly known as Mirrodin, but like all races there, they were not native). This Ninja might be from whatever plane Nin, the Pain Artist is from, as she is neither from Kaladesh nor Ravnica.
Veldaken is a race, not a job class, and Ninja is a specific class type heavily related to a culture, unlike a “rogue”, which people on any plane could be. You can be a group of thieves loyal to a master, calling yourself a clan, but you’re NOT ninjas. Just like you can’t have knights and samurais on Tarkir, but you can have plenty of warriors. WotC will have to explain further on this.
And you conveniently and completely missed my point. My point being that as a race, vedalken, like the other races of MTG, would likely exist on multiple worlds. And logically, so would Ninja. Ninja, like other classes, is unlikely to be limited to just one world. Not every card we are shown in auxiliary sets (and core sets incidentally) take place on a world which we have visited, or have even heard of. It is not unlikely that somewhere in the multiverse there exists a world, possibly several worlds, on which there are both Vedalken and Ninja. Indeed, thinking otherwise is illogical.
Then I understood you perfectly the first time, with exactly the reply I intended.
To calm you down, let me start by saying I wasn't disagreeing with you. In fact, I explained how it is possible for both Vedalken and Ninja to coexist.
In my first post, I presumed one of the many possibilities is that Umezawa (or Tamiyo as someone else suggested) had brought the knowledge to other worlds, to allow such knowledge to exist. The reason I stated it thus is because it's the most "logical" explanation. Ninja as a term (which I explained in my second post) is very culturally specific, because it also involves a language that's tied closely to a specific culture, much like "polis" is a word for city used in Greek and nowhere else. Even if there are clans and job class similar to being a ninja, that particular word is very regional, and ties with several other culture specific terms like ninjutsu.
Now, I'm also not denying that perhaps there's a chance that another world (or timeline) somewhere outside of Kamigawa sprouts the culture of ninja/ninjutsu, but since you mentioned the word "logic", you ought to know that even with multiple possibilities, some are closer to truth than others. My explanation is a lot more plausible compare to you saying, "Oh, it just exist." Again, I wasn't disagreeing with you, but given the currently developed lore of WotC they owe us an explanation on how this happened.
And please be less aggressive. Not every post without immediate agreement is an attack.
Why are the new Ninjas not from Kamigawa? Mark me as seriously annoyed now.
Because a single plane shouldn't have a monopoly on creature types. That makes it difficult to expand the range without a return.
Ok, but:
1) We'll never return to Kamigawa in a Standard legal set. Supplemetal products like these are pretty much the only place where we're able to get glimpses of them, so every card that would've been perfect to show the plane but doesn't just because stings a bit.
2) The art direction for the two Ninjas we got so far doesn't make much sense to me. It just feels like "what if Ninja, but not Kamigawa" with not much thought put in otherwise. For the most part it looks like they took some zombie (from pretty much anywhere) and a Vedalken from Kaladesh, put them in Ninja costumes and sent them to Innistrad. Not the most cohesive or intetesting look. At least do a new vaguely Asian setting or something…
Edit: Looking at the artist's Twitter, it becomes clear that pretty much neither the art direction nor the artist cared for the background, which is why (quote) "the most average European fantasy architecture" was chosen as the backdrop. It's mostly this what's bugging me. I can't get excited about the possibilty of a new plane with Ninjas when no thought went into the background (both literally and metaphorically).
Did Umezawa teach some people about ninjas on Dominaria, then someone bright this knowledge to Kalasesh or something?
Vedalken exist on multiple worlds, and logically, so would ninjas.
We know Vedalken exist on both Ravnica and Kaladesh (and used to exist on the plane formerly known as Mirrodin, but like all races there, they were not native). This Ninja might be from whatever plane Nin, the Pain Artist is from, as she is neither from Kaladesh nor Ravnica.
Veldaken is a race, not a job class, and Ninja is a specific class type heavily related to a culture, unlike a “rogue”, which people on any plane could be. You can be a group of thieves loyal to a master, calling yourself a clan, but you’re NOT ninjas. Just like you can’t have knights and samurais on Tarkir, but you can have plenty of warriors. WotC will have to explain further on this.
And you conveniently and completely missed my point. My point being that as a race, vedalken, like the other races of MTG, would likely exist on multiple worlds. And logically, so would Ninja. Ninja, like other classes, is unlikely to be limited to just one world. Not every card we are shown in auxiliary sets (and core sets incidentally) take place on a world which we have visited, or have even heard of. It is not unlikely that somewhere in the multiverse there exists a world, possibly several worlds, on which there are both Vedalken and Ninja. Indeed, thinking otherwise is illogical.
Then I understood you perfectly the first time, with exactly the reply I intended.
To calm you down, let me start by saying I wasn't disagreeing with you. In fact, I explained how it is possible for both Vedalken and Ninja to coexist.
In my first post, I presumed one of the many possibilities is that Umezawa (or Tamiyo as someone else suggested) had brought the knowledge to other worlds, to allow such knowledge to exist. The reason I stated it thus is because it's the most "logical" explanation. Ninja as a term (which I explained in my second post) is very culturally specific, because it also involves a language that's tied closely to a specific culture, much like "polis" is a word for city used in Greek and nowhere else. Even if there are clans and job class similar to being a ninja, that particular word is very regional, and ties with several other culture specific terms like ninjutsu.
Now, I'm also not denying that perhaps there's a chance that another world (or timeline) somewhere outside of Kamigawa sprouts the culture of ninja/ninjutsu, but since you mentioned the word "logic", you ought to know that even with multiple possibilities, some are closer to truth than others. My explanation is a lot more plausible compare to you saying, "Oh, it just exist." Again, I wasn't disagreeing with you, but given the currently developed lore of WotC they owe us an explanation on how this happened.
And please be less aggressive. Not every post without immediate agreement is an attack.
I think we are both agreeing here, but come at the subject from different directions. Which is a silly thing to argue over. My point was that it is unlikely for Kamigawa to be the only Japanese Culture inspired plane, and it is possible, indeed likely, that there are more of them, and thus it is equally likely that there is one such plane that also has Vedalken, thus the Vedalken Ninja. Unfortunately tone is often lost when it comes to text, and my previous post was not intended to be aggressive, and for that I apologize.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I think we are both agreeing here, but come at the subject from different directions. Which is a silly thing to argue over. My point was that it is unlikely for Kamigawa to be the only Japanese Culture inspired plane, and it is possible, indeed likely, that there are more of them, and thus it is equally likely that there is one such plane that also has Vedalken, thus the Vedalken Ninja. Unfortunately tone is often lost when it comes to text, and my previous post was not intended to be aggressive, and for that I apologize.
It's quite alright. Internet is faceless and we can only judge by wording. WotC is the one responsible for making lore clear as day. Anything can be "explained", but there are convincing and unconvincing explanations, let's just hope WotC will give an officially good one.
The fact that MaRo itself most likely doesn't know which world these ninjas are from is much more disturbing for me.
Maro is not part of the creative team, he doesn't have to know exactly where every card has been flavoured
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again"
The fact that MaRo itself most likely doesn't know which world these ninjas are from is much more disturbing for me.
Maro is not part of the creative team, he doesn't have to know exactly where every card has been flavoured
To add on for sets that have no set setting and show glimpses all over the multiverse, creative gets to make up whatever world/look they want.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Lol oh gosh. That no one is getting the joke is great. That damn meme
I love that his applies to all ninjas. They hardly have tribal support (just Yuriko, Higure, and Walker of Secret Ways).
There wasn't anything about BG archetype in today's article. Just Slivers, Goblins, Snow and Ninja.
It's about time ninjas got support.
It is a ninja, and it can't be blocked.
(and look, it's a Sliver too!)
Because a single plane shouldn't have a monopoly on creature types. That makes it difficult to expand the range without a return.
Then I understood you perfectly the first time, with exactly the reply I intended.
To calm you down, let me start by saying I wasn't disagreeing with you. In fact, I explained how it is possible for both Vedalken and Ninja to coexist.
In my first post, I presumed one of the many possibilities is that Umezawa (or Tamiyo as someone else suggested) had brought the knowledge to other worlds, to allow such knowledge to exist. The reason I stated it thus is because it's the most "logical" explanation. Ninja as a term (which I explained in my second post) is very culturally specific, because it also involves a language that's tied closely to a specific culture, much like "polis" is a word for city used in Greek and nowhere else. Even if there are clans and job class similar to being a ninja, that particular word is very regional, and ties with several other culture specific terms like ninjutsu.
Now, I'm also not denying that perhaps there's a chance that another world (or timeline) somewhere outside of Kamigawa sprouts the culture of ninja/ninjutsu, but since you mentioned the word "logic", you ought to know that even with multiple possibilities, some are closer to truth than others. My explanation is a lot more plausible compare to you saying, "Oh, it just exist." Again, I wasn't disagreeing with you, but given the currently developed lore of WotC they owe us an explanation on how this happened.
And please be less aggressive. Not every post without immediate agreement is an attack.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Ok, but:
1) We'll never return to Kamigawa in a Standard legal set. Supplemetal products like these are pretty much the only place where we're able to get glimpses of them, so every card that would've been perfect to show the plane but doesn't just because stings a bit.
2) The art direction for the two Ninjas we got so far doesn't make much sense to me. It just feels like "what if Ninja, but not Kamigawa" with not much thought put in otherwise. For the most part it looks like they took some zombie (from pretty much anywhere) and a Vedalken from Kaladesh, put them in Ninja costumes and sent them to Innistrad. Not the most cohesive or intetesting look. At least do a new vaguely Asian setting or something…
Edit: Looking at the artist's Twitter, it becomes clear that pretty much neither the art direction nor the artist cared for the background, which is why (quote) "the most average European fantasy architecture" was chosen as the backdrop. It's mostly this what's bugging me. I can't get excited about the possibilty of a new plane with Ninjas when no thought went into the background (both literally and metaphorically).
I think we are both agreeing here, but come at the subject from different directions. Which is a silly thing to argue over. My point was that it is unlikely for Kamigawa to be the only Japanese Culture inspired plane, and it is possible, indeed likely, that there are more of them, and thus it is equally likely that there is one such plane that also has Vedalken, thus the Vedalken Ninja. Unfortunately tone is often lost when it comes to text, and my previous post was not intended to be aggressive, and for that I apologize.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
It's quite alright. Internet is faceless and we can only judge by wording. WotC is the one responsible for making lore clear as day. Anything can be "explained", but there are convincing and unconvincing explanations, let's just hope WotC will give an officially good one.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
Then he did his job right. You're not suppose to recognize a ninja. :3
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Maro is not part of the creative team, he doesn't have to know exactly where every card has been flavoured
Oh my god those rulings. I had no idea this existed, thanks for letting me know!
To add on for sets that have no set setting and show glimpses all over the multiverse, creative gets to make up whatever world/look they want.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"