Some people have gotten burned in the past when they wrote off 'bad' cards as too niche that eventually saw play and turned out good.
This isn't one of them.
This is bad. How bad? Maybe its better than chimney imp.
In a format with simian spirit guide and lotus bloom and mox amber, it will see zero play. Its not good.
If you play it fairly, its incredibly slow for its payoff, a bad topdeck, and normally going to be worse than just having another land in hand. If you had this in your starting hand, you'd need to make a land drop your first 4 turns in a row while missing a card, just for this to come down as a single mana ramp. If you missed any land drops, you'd have been better off just having a land in its place- you aren't ramping yourself and its locked out until later and a dead topdeck
If you're trying to play it unfairly like with as foretold, then its a terrible payoff. Its just a mana rock. The decks that could cheat it in with cascade or foretold or electrodominance or so on- have access to far, far better payoffs. And they tend to play better with cards like lotus bloom. And its not like being a permanent mana source makes mox better than a black lotus when they're both gated behind the same suspend drawback. Want to tutor a 0 cmc artifact out? Just play some copies of darksteel citadel.
This is really, really bad.
/e someone in another thread was speculating about what it would take to actually make this card playable, and came up with the idea: a 1 CMC cascade spell. Then yeah, maybe it would have a purpose ~
So did they just pull Iconic Masters 3.0 on us now? First Iconic, then Masters 25, and now Modern Horizons?
I don’t quite think so. There are definitely cards that will hold financial value for EDH play alone. At the same time, we really haven’t seen all that much that’s truly Modern worthy. The Force cards, sans the white one, seem to be decent. And don’t forget the land cycle will age incredibly well and really push up the value of the box.
I feel like there hasn’t been all that much greatness for Modern, and I’m not sure what reprints we’ve seen that are great for Modern. I just think due to the land cycle as well as all of the other mythics, financial value shouldn’t be terrible. If boxes are $200 estimated retail, and you can get them for a few bucks cheaper, packs are essentially $5.50 a piece, and I do think there will be a few rares that can meet/beat that. I’m just not super hyped with regards to the playability of this set. I do think the nostalgia is great, though.
This is strictly worse than all the other moxen, and any other artifact ramp worth playing for that matter. If I have to wait 3 turns for a card to be playable, it had better win me the game.
I'm sure it will be a bomb in limited, but it won't see constructed play.
Lots of chaff/filler in this set so far. Hopefully we get some REAL spoilers soon.
I agree with you on most of these points, but I feel like you need to rethink your definition of a Limited bomb.
Ah, and with the return of rancorcrank, comes the first person to take the bait.
Here's a hint: rancorcrank's avatar is the art for Uthden Troll.
I could see this in a janky 4-5 color grind deck where they need color fixing and have time to spare... maybe... it's just sooooo slow that it's going to be worse than a land in most situations.
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I don't care how practical the card is, the art is absolutely breathtaking. It seriously looks like a photo.
I kept looking at it too and...it's not art in the traditional sense. I'm pretty sure this is done in Maya (the surface looks awfully like some filters i've used before).
Pretty sure this is a 3d piece. Like 90% sure.
Anyways, I think the idea is cool. I mean it's not a card you want to top deck but having lets say 2 of them in your opener will ramp you from 4 to 6 mana, that's not insignificant in the right deck. But why is it mythic?
Disappointing. This will probably find a niche in Modern at some point, but man. This was their chance to pull a few nice levers for Modern and they have certainly printed some viable cards for the format (Lava Dart, Prohibit, the Bazaar Djinn, Canopy lands) but it really feels like they had overflow Commander product and just used it as filler in this set. It's a pity, really, because they could have used this to print safety valves for items they find problematic as well.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Realistically, how many modern playable cards would anyone want to enter the format at once? I thought the whole point of modern was to have a non rotating format that's free from the reserved list. If we got a modern horizons set every year or two that injects 50 cards into the format, it's effectively just standard where your old ***** is technically still playable. That's like yugioh where there's really one format where 99.99% of cards are "playable" but realistically there's maybe a standard worth of unbanned cards you can play at a tournament without looking silly.
As for the card, its a rampant growth for non green commander that people have been begging Mark rosewater for. I doubt they are going to print a mox diamond/chrome for modern. They want the format to be reasonably slow unlike legacy.
I don't know, every time a Mox got spoiled in the last few years, people were initially saying how bad it is, and it always ended up playable somewhere. Free mana for 0 always ended up good, no matter the restrictions.
This is strictly worse than all the other moxen, and any other artifact ramp worth playing for that matter. If I have to wait 3 turns for a card to be playable, it had better win me the game.
I'm sure it will be a bomb in limited, but it won't see constructed play.
Lots of chaff/filler in this set so far. Hopefully we get some REAL spoilers soon.
Which...assumes that it's possible for one card to win you the game outright, regardless of how much power it has.
I will confess that it's been a long time since I played (and only at FNMs, at that), but I'm not seeing how that can happen. (Yes, that's an invitation to offer counter-examples.)
Not to mention, there's a thorn that's been bugging me for a long time. Namely, how are four-turn games enjoyable? A turn takes, what, 90 seconds at most? I'd expect any game worth the name to take at least fifteen minutes, if not twenty! How can such a brief game be savored, or at least enjoyed by the loser? I honestly don't see how excitement is enough, and I'm just guessing that excitement is involved. (I'm not sure I'm capable of excitement myself...)
There are decks in Modern that win on T2 some small percent of the time.
Neoform wins on T1 some significant percent of the time
Fair point I have not seen what War has done to the format.
A suspended card is not even a spell (i.e. on the stack), it's a card in exile, Hexmage only targets permanents on the battlefield.
Also, dear lord that would be an awful combo even if it did work. Nobody wants a mox that costs BB and a card.
Suspend 3 is kinda a lot, I don't think this card is good unless you can reliably cascade it out (which requires either a 1 drop with cascade or some serious deckbuilding constraints) and even then, all you get for your troubles is a 1-mana bump.
I still want one though.
edited to add: while I don't think it is good, I find the "they really should have just made this busted" takes (not talking about the intentional joke ones) to be pretty silly. Modern can already be a ruthlessly fast format, it is getting a ton of love in this set, it didn't need a real mox. I'm fine with this as-is, a card that will get some people to experiment but that ultimately won't break anything.
I don't know, every time a Mox got spoiled in the last few years, people were initially saying how bad it is, and it always ended up playable somewhere. Free mana for 0 always ended up good, no matter the restrictions.
Yeah, I can picture the arguments:
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank." Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage." Mox Amber - "You need to have a legendary creature or planeswalker on the battlefield. Jaaaaank." Mox Tantalite - "You have to wait three whole turns!? JAAAAAANK!"
I wonder how many players deride Lotus Bloom for the same reason.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
So did they just pull Iconic Masters 3.0 on us now? First Iconic, then Masters 25, and now Modern Horizons?
I don’t quite think so. There are definitely cards that will hold financial value for EDH play alone. At the same time, we really haven’t seen all that much that’s truly Modern worthy. The Force cards, sans the white one, seem to be decent. And don’t forget the land cycle will age incredibly well and really push up the value of the box.
I feel like there hasn’t been all that much greatness for Modern, and I’m not sure what reprints we’ve seen that are great for Modern. I just think due to the land cycle as well as all of the other mythics, financial value shouldn’t be terrible. If boxes are $200 estimated retail, and you can get them for a few bucks cheaper, packs are essentially $5.50 a piece, and I do think there will be a few rares that can meet/beat that. I’m just not super hyped with regards to the playability of this set. I do think the nostalgia is great, though.
hell the new Sliver will DEFINITELY keep or gain value... consider the costs for Sliver Queen, Sliver Legion, and Sliver Overlord... and this sliver is easily a better sliver than them.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I don't know, every time a Mox got spoiled in the last few years, people were initially saying how bad it is, and it always ended up playable somewhere. Free mana for 0 always ended up good, no matter the restrictions.
Yeah, I can picture the arguments:
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank." Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage." Mox Amber - "You need to have a legendary creature or planeswalker on the battlefield. Jaaaaank." Mox Tantalite - "You have to wait three whole turns!? JAAAAAANK!"
I wonder how many players deride Lotus Bloom for the same reason.
Considering Bloom see's play in like...one deck? Hmm.
I don't know, every time a Mox got spoiled in the last few years, people were initially saying how bad it is, and it always ended up playable somewhere. Free mana for 0 always ended up good, no matter the restrictions.
Yeah, I can picture the arguments:
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank." Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage." Mox Amber - "You need to have a legendary creature or planeswalker on the battlefield. Jaaaaank." Mox Tantalite - "You have to wait three whole turns!? JAAAAAANK!"
I wonder how many players deride Lotus Bloom for the same reason.
Are you kidding?
Bloom is a 3 mana net after 3 turns... this is a 1 mana net.
The thing is, the earlier in the game you start working above curve, the better. Which offsets things like card disadvantage because you have a power advantage. Turns 3 and onward that advantage starts to decay rather quickly, especially in a fast linear format like Modern.
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People are talking about this like making it suspend 1 wouldn't break it in half. You don't see how having (effectively) "comes into play tapped" MIGHT not be a big enough drawback on a free rainbow mana source? If they wanted to push it, I could see them making it suspend 2, but they clearly wanted to play it safe with the free mana rock.
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Spirits
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I don’t quite think so. There are definitely cards that will hold financial value for EDH play alone. At the same time, we really haven’t seen all that much that’s truly Modern worthy. The Force cards, sans the white one, seem to be decent. And don’t forget the land cycle will age incredibly well and really push up the value of the box.
I feel like there hasn’t been all that much greatness for Modern, and I’m not sure what reprints we’ve seen that are great for Modern. I just think due to the land cycle as well as all of the other mythics, financial value shouldn’t be terrible. If boxes are $200 estimated retail, and you can get them for a few bucks cheaper, packs are essentially $5.50 a piece, and I do think there will be a few rares that can meet/beat that. I’m just not super hyped with regards to the playability of this set. I do think the nostalgia is great, though.
Here's a hint: rancorcrank's avatar is the art for Uthden Troll.
I kept looking at it too and...it's not art in the traditional sense. I'm pretty sure this is done in Maya (the surface looks awfully like some filters i've used before).
Pretty sure this is a 3d piece. Like 90% sure.
Anyways, I think the idea is cool. I mean it's not a card you want to top deck but having lets say 2 of them in your opener will ramp you from 4 to 6 mana, that's not insignificant in the right deck. But why is it mythic?
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
As for the card, its a rampant growth for non green commander that people have been begging Mark rosewater for. I doubt they are going to print a mox diamond/chrome for modern. They want the format to be reasonably slow unlike legacy.
Fair point I have not seen what War has done to the format.
Also, dear lord that would be an awful combo even if it did work. Nobody wants a mox that costs BB and a card.
Suspend 3 is kinda a lot, I don't think this card is good unless you can reliably cascade it out (which requires either a 1 drop with cascade or some serious deckbuilding constraints) and even then, all you get for your troubles is a 1-mana bump.
I still want one though.
edited to add: while I don't think it is good, I find the "they really should have just made this busted" takes (not talking about the intentional joke ones) to be pretty silly. Modern can already be a ruthlessly fast format, it is getting a ton of love in this set, it didn't need a real mox. I'm fine with this as-is, a card that will get some people to experiment but that ultimately won't break anything.
Yeah, I can picture the arguments:
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank."
Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage."
Mox Amber - "You need to have a legendary creature or planeswalker on the battlefield. Jaaaaank."
Mox Tantalite - "You have to wait three whole turns!? JAAAAAANK!"
I wonder how many players deride Lotus Bloom for the same reason.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
hell the new Sliver will DEFINITELY keep or gain value... consider the costs for Sliver Queen, Sliver Legion, and Sliver Overlord... and this sliver is easily a better sliver than them.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Considering Bloom see's play in like...one deck? Hmm.
Spirits
I think the idea is that both this and Lotus Bloom will be played in the same deck. Or maybe a new slower "storm" variant.
Eggs 2.0, anyone?
Spirits
Are you kidding?
Bloom is a 3 mana net after 3 turns... this is a 1 mana net.
The thing is, the earlier in the game you start working above curve, the better. Which offsets things like card disadvantage because you have a power advantage. Turns 3 and onward that advantage starts to decay rather quickly, especially in a fast linear format like Modern.
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