They also said the set went through Play Design so I wouldn't worry too much about some of these mechanics being on overpowered cards (or even being in the set at all). Being able to print them doesn't mean they will. As such, I would expect things like Flusterstorm over Tendrils or Brain Freeze. That is, something that is an answer to a broken mechanic rather than something that fuels it.
Storm scale has always been only for standard-legal products, not sure how this is news...
Yes. I am a little confused why this is news, too. Every scale (Venser, Storm, Rabiah, Beeble) only applies to standard legal sets. We saw this already with Serra and the Venser scale.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Also on the list of "things we know that don't need their own thread"
The sky being blue
The earth not being flat
The earth revolving around the sun
I feel the same way. In other news: The Venser scale, Rabiah scale and every other scale that specifically applies (just as the Storm scale) only to Standard-legal products and doesn't generally apply to supplemental products also aren't applied to a supplemental product that as a major feature and selling point circumvents Standard.
Anyone who comes to this thread knowing what the Storm scale is, won't consider this news as not applying to Modern Horizons in general is basically given by the definition. The inverse choice would be news.
Not to mention that this hasn't even been revealed for the first time recently. I seem to recall this piece of information being clarified within the first day after Modern Horizons was confirmed officially... so... this is both obvious and old?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
yeah i figured that was sorta the point of the set. higher power and more complex designs/interactions that come from the extra freedom/design space they get to work with when standard, and especially newer players, dont need to be a consideration.
the only stuff i really wonder about is on the complexity front, and if that includes cards with defunct templates, etc.
one example is sylvan library, and another is council's judgment; the latter having a multiplayer mechanic. for the latter power wise it seems perfectly reasonable, and its already played in 1v1 comp constructed (legacy) so its not like people just cant handle how the card functions; however it remains to be seen if they ruled it out specifically because the mechanic is the way it is.
another salient example is the monarch mechanic with something like palace jailer. from my understanding wizards hasnt explicitly stated one way or another what they think of these cards and modern/horizons.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Storm scale is really just a rule waiting to be broken. Even those mechanics that’d “take a miracle to reappear” is literally just at their finger tip of MtG deities; themselves.
That means “storm” “Annihilator” “affinity” basicly anything in the 7-10 may actually be possible to get new cards
Maybe, but this is for cards not presently in Modern to be printed and be legal in Modern, so we can probably leave out a lot of existing mechanics already available in Modern like Affinity and Annihilator.
'buster
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Storm scale is really just a rule waiting to be broken. Even those mechanics that’d “take a miracle to reappear” is literally just at their finger tip of MtG deities; themselves.
The storm scale only shows how likely a mechanic is to appear again in a standard legal set, with higher values meaning less likely to appear. The only ones that are guaranteed to never appear in a standard legal set are those who are listed as an 11. I.e. Bands with Other and Substance. Everything else is possible, only more or less likely. We've had 8's and 9's appear before.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Storm scale is really just a rule waiting to be broken. Even those mechanics that’d “take a miracle to reappear” is literally just at their finger tip of MtG deities; themselves.
How would you break the storm scale? It's not a promise not to do something, it is a rough classification of mechanics sorted by how likely they are to return at a given moment in time (the scale getting update based on discussion etc.) Even an unlikely mechanic returning doesn't necessarily mean its classification changes (IIRC madness returned, because its stars aligned, but that has not been taken to mean the chances of the stars aligning again any time soon would be all that much greater).
And the probability for a "miracle" occuring approaches one as you look at a greater span of time. That's not the scale breaking. That's simply the reality of unlikely events still being possible.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
So... Goin' back to Rabia for some fun in the blazin' hot sun? We could use a legendary Efreet or new-and-improved versions of Ali Baba, Aladdin, Library of Alexandria (but for the overpowered, power them down... such as a new Library that is along the lines of "If an opponent has exactly seven cards in his or her hand, 1 Draw one card" or something like that (note: not a custom card idea, but an idea of a direction to go in).
What if they mixed broken keywords together, for example: "Creature-X has Threshold: Affinity to nonbasic lands or something that can be viewed as either absurd, fun, hilarious, or any combination of the three. Or a card that has a Phyrexian mana for the flashback cost, while the cards normal cost is plain 'ol mana...
The question can also apply to other supplemental products, like Commander or a third Conspiracy or etcetera etcetera etcetera...
I don't understand why people treat Rosewater words like were dogma or truth revealed. His opinion matters exactly like matters your and mine, because he just guess, in his opinion, what are the chances of something returning in standard, preteding to not know the future at all.
I don't understand why people treat Rosewater words like were dogma or truth revealed. His opinion matters exactly like matters your and mine, because he just guess, in his opinion, what are the chances of something returning in standard, preteding to not know the future at all.
Because the informed opinion of the Head Designer do matters more than mine or yours.
I agree it is not to be read as official statements of what will or won't be printed, but it is the one of the best guides we have of what is likely to be.
We just need to remember this "Storm Scale" is about standard-legal sets. It just doesn't apply to all sets. They will likely never have Phasing or Storm in Standard again, but new phasing or storm cards that are only legal in formats that already have those abilities do get printed from time to time.
Because the informed opinion of the Head Designer do matters more than mine or yours.
Design is not everything. Development is there as well and there are many case of where Mark would feel appropriate to repropose a mechanic but development's team or play design make a veto because is unbalanced or broken for that game envinroment.
Also, surely Head Designer opinion matter when Mark actually talk about it with the authority of his rule. But about the Storm Scale he explicitly state that is just personal opinion and vague guesses on the future, and that's why it's same like mine or yours. Because his opinion can perfectly fail and miss, exactly like us, and he guess in based of what are the current data available to everybody else.
Interesting thoughts from Maro's Q&A at #MtGLondon.
Modern Horizons was originally dubbed as 'Timespiral / Planar Chaos 2' in concept due to set complexity. It won't be an entry level set and has *a lot* of mechanics, but is a love letter to the Time Spiral block. #MTGModern
so it sounds like the designers were able to let loose with complexity and mechanics. the 'a lot' of mechanics of course implies there will be more than the average standard set/environment. time spiral afaik is much beloved, so the comparison or at least homage to the block bodes well.
i know most everyones eyes and minds are on WAR atm, but im still extremely excited to see how horizons turns out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
The storm is focused for standard sets so
Oh boy....
That means “storm” “Annihilator” “affinity” basicly anything in the 7-10 may actually be possible to get new cards
...A 6-mana Standard-legal card.
Maybe Modern will finally get Flusterstorm?
Yes. I am a little confused why this is news, too. Every scale (Venser, Storm, Rabiah, Beeble) only applies to standard legal sets. We saw this already with Serra and the Venser scale.
It’s more like a reminder for those who don’t know
I feel the same way. In other news: The Venser scale, Rabiah scale and every other scale that specifically applies (just as the Storm scale) only to Standard-legal products and doesn't generally apply to supplemental products also aren't applied to a supplemental product that as a major feature and selling point circumvents Standard.
Anyone who comes to this thread knowing what the Storm scale is, won't consider this news as not applying to Modern Horizons in general is basically given by the definition. The inverse choice would be news.
Not to mention that this hasn't even been revealed for the first time recently. I seem to recall this piece of information being clarified within the first day after Modern Horizons was confirmed officially... so... this is both obvious and old?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
And New World Order only applies to commons. (A lot of people get this one wrong).
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
the only stuff i really wonder about is on the complexity front, and if that includes cards with defunct templates, etc.
one example is sylvan library, and another is council's judgment; the latter having a multiplayer mechanic. for the latter power wise it seems perfectly reasonable, and its already played in 1v1 comp constructed (legacy) so its not like people just cant handle how the card functions; however it remains to be seen if they ruled it out specifically because the mechanic is the way it is.
another salient example is the monarch mechanic with something like palace jailer. from my understanding wizards hasnt explicitly stated one way or another what they think of these cards and modern/horizons.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Maybe, but this is for cards not presently in Modern to be printed and be legal in Modern, so we can probably leave out a lot of existing mechanics already available in Modern like Affinity and Annihilator.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
The storm scale only shows how likely a mechanic is to appear again in a standard legal set, with higher values meaning less likely to appear. The only ones that are guaranteed to never appear in a standard legal set are those who are listed as an 11. I.e. Bands with Other and Substance. Everything else is possible, only more or less likely. We've had 8's and 9's appear before.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
And the probability for a "miracle" occuring approaches one as you look at a greater span of time. That's not the scale breaking. That's simply the reality of unlikely events still being possible.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
What if they mixed broken keywords together, for example: "Creature-X has Threshold: Affinity to nonbasic lands or something that can be viewed as either absurd, fun, hilarious, or any combination of the three. Or a card that has a Phyrexian mana for the flashback cost, while the cards normal cost is plain 'ol mana...
The question can also apply to other supplemental products, like Commander or a third Conspiracy or etcetera etcetera etcetera...
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183847204053/hey-maro-you-said-storm-scale-is-just-your
I don't understand why people treat Rosewater words like were dogma or truth revealed. His opinion matters exactly like matters your and mine, because he just guess, in his opinion, what are the chances of something returning in standard, preteding to not know the future at all.
Because the informed opinion of the Head Designer do matters more than mine or yours.
I agree it is not to be read as official statements of what will or won't be printed, but it is the one of the best guides we have of what is likely to be.
We just need to remember this "Storm Scale" is about standard-legal sets. It just doesn't apply to all sets. They will likely never have Phasing or Storm in Standard again, but new phasing or storm cards that are only legal in formats that already have those abilities do get printed from time to time.
Design is not everything. Development is there as well and there are many case of where Mark would feel appropriate to repropose a mechanic but development's team or play design make a veto because is unbalanced or broken for that game envinroment.
Also, surely Head Designer opinion matter when Mark actually talk about it with the authority of his rule. But about the Storm Scale he explicitly state that is just personal opinion and vague guesses on the future, and that's why it's same like mine or yours. Because his opinion can perfectly fail and miss, exactly like us, and he guess in based of what are the current data available to everybody else.
so it sounds like the designers were able to let loose with complexity and mechanics. the 'a lot' of mechanics of course implies there will be more than the average standard set/environment. time spiral afaik is much beloved, so the comparison or at least homage to the block bodes well.
i know most everyones eyes and minds are on WAR atm, but im still extremely excited to see how horizons turns out.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)i mean, the standard is already there for it with just about everything that they've ever printed that hasn't been standard legal. so... water is wet