Villains have won though. Look at Amonkhet, that’s not a good end. Prior to the Gatewatch I’d argue more blocks ended in a negative way than a positive for a long while too.
Villains have won though. Look at Amonkhet, that’s not a good end. Prior to the Gatewatch I’d argue more blocks ended in a negative way than a positive for a long while too.
Yeah, and in SOI, Emmy left on her own terms, so that isn't exactly a victory either.
In the past, Bolas has been defeated at least twice.. first by Tetsuo Umezawa in Madara.. then by Ajani Vengeant in Alara. But Bolas was able to recover and come back each time.
Being defeated here in Ravnica.. is probably just another minor setback to our wise and totally evil elder dragon.
Villains have won though. Look at Amonkhet, that’s not a good end. Prior to the Gatewatch I’d argue more blocks ended in a negative way than a positive for a long while too.
Yeah, and in SOI, Emmy left on her own terms, so that isn't exactly a victory either.
Yep. And while Kaladesh was a victory locally interplanar wise it was a loss. Outside of Zendikar the only plane that feels like an unambiguous win for the heroes was Ixalan. The rest are more mixed.
Why are people already moaning about this - "Oh, that was too easy," "Oh, the heroes should have paid a price," "Oh, that was such a painless victory"? You know all this already? I didn't realize we had so many sibyls and clairvoyants on these forums! Truly gifted, this community!
Yeah i mean look at BFZ! Everyone was like "the gatewatch can't just defeat two eldrazi titans so easily" and actually they... oh, wait
Again, how many named heroes died in Return of the King? Exactly Theoden, and that wasn’t even in the last battle. Literally everyone else comes out okay at the end. Frodo loses a finger.
[quote from="Manite »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/808565-planar-celebration?comment=44"]
It's since the bible that "good always triumph over evil".
I guess you haven't read the bible really well since "happy ending" isn't a way to actually describe it.
Same for the Iliad, Chanson the Roland, or Siegfried' saga.
Happy ending isn't something classic at all.
Regarding leaks, it's totally wizard fault. It's 2019, leaks happen. Haven't they learnt yet? They shouldn't give relevant story cards to third parties, simple as that. Instead of using the mothership to spoil some uncommon draft *****, they should have kept all the story cards and spoil them by themselves.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I don't want to waste my time on a story with a downer ending where the good guys I've been rooting for end up losing. And I flat out reject stories that confuse "realism" with "pessimism", where the downer ending is supposed to represent some fatalistic philosophy about life.
So what you are telling me, is you are not a fan of Warhammer 40K?
I'm fine with the Walkers winning, I did not REALLY expect otherwise, but I wanted a cost to be paid, and a high one at that.
This. If nobody on the gatewatch dies, then I'll know this was all just a big bucket of nonsense. If Bolas dies, I'll be very sad and I think wizards knows this so they might just return him to Sensei Ryu state for a while, but if none of the main characters get touched in any way, it'll be a waste. You simply cannot walk through the heat of the multiverse's conflicts and get away unscathed.
I like to imagine that they're just celebrating the toppling of the statue while the real Bolas is bewildered at these idiots but relatively ok and still gathering sparks for the elder spell.
That sort of is the case. Look at Topple the Statue.
Villains have won though. Look at Amonkhet, that’s not a good end. Prior to the Gatewatch I’d argue more blocks ended in a negative way than a positive for a long while too.
Yeah, and in SOI, Emmy left on her own terms, so that isn't exactly a victory either.
Yep. And while Kaladesh was a victory locally interplanar wise it was a loss. Outside of Zendikar the only plane that feels like an unambiguous win for the heroes was Ixalan. The rest are more mixed.
Funny that you bring up those two, Ixalan's factions can't really be clearly delineated as "good" or "evil" (maybe except for the vamps, those are jerks) and the biggest win was the setup made for WAR, and Zendikar will probably have some dire consequences further down the line, though maybe none of the Gatewatch will be alive by that time.
In those two planes by “win” I meant more on an interplanar level. Ixalan Jace manages to pull one over on Bolas, and Zendikar they beat up the Eldrazi and establish the Gatewatch. I fully expect repercussions for the second but at least at this stage you can argue it’s a win. I tend to think of conflicts with the Gatewatch as local and interplanar, and at least on the second it’s pretty consistently been a loss. And the local conflicts can have heavy losses even if they win, like Innistrad.
Why would anyone of the GW croak? They're your feel-good band of high-fivein' young adults whose Power of Friendship see them vanquishing extraplanar entities, blasting ancient demons and gods out of existence and whatnot. An ancient Elder Dragon Planeswalker as powerful as Bolas is nothing to sweat about for them. Also, way too much marketing, and branded products around them to see them go. In this day and age, nobody who wants to run a comics-like story is ready to have the whole team sacrificed for a greater good and disappear like in the Weatherlight saga.
Why would anyone of the GW croak? They're your feel-good band of high-fivein' young adults whose Power of Friendship see them vanquishing extraplanar entities, blasting ancient demons and gods out of existence and whatnot. An ancient Elder Dragon Planeswalker as powerful as Bolas is nothing to sweat about for them. Also, way too much marketing, and branded products around them to see them go. In this day and age, nobody who wants to run a comics-like story is ready to have the whole team sacrificed for a greater good and disappear like in the Weatherlight saga.
Just think what it would take for Chandra to get heavy PTSD as seen in the comics, when all she had to do after Zendikar was sleep it off and getting her ass beaten by Bolas only made her stronger. Someone's gonna pay and the price will be high.
If Bolas dies, I'll be very sad and I think wizards knows this so they might just return him to Sensei Ryu state for a while, but if none of the main characters get touched in any way, it'll be a waste. You simply cannot walk through the heat of the multiverse's conflicts and get away unscathed.
More Sensei Ryu would be good. Although if WoTC would go this route.. which planeswalker would Bolas trick this time? Venser already kicked the bucket.
Why would anyone of the GW croak? They're your feel-good band of high-fivein' young adults whose Power of Friendship see them vanquishing extraplanar entities, blasting ancient demons and gods out of existence and whatnot. An ancient Elder Dragon Planeswalker as powerful as Bolas is nothing to sweat about for them. Also, way too much marketing, and branded products around them to see them go. In this day and age, nobody who wants to run a comics-like story is ready to have the whole team sacrificed for a greater good and disappear like in the Weatherlight saga.
Just think what it would take for Chandra to get heavy PTSD as seen in the comics, when all she had to do after Zendikar was sleep it off and getting her ass beaten by Bolas only made her stronger. Someone's gonna pay and the price will be high.
Referring to bolded part. Haha, yeah Chandra is surprisingly tough. You get cookie for that. ;p
Upsetting it doesn't interact with its own proliferate.
EDIT: Is this the end? Or just people celebrating that Ghazi broke the statue?
That is something I would like to know as well, I took this card to represent them taking down the statue and rejoicing, not that Bolas had lost. (Though I still 100% think he is going to lose)
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Commander: UBG Tasigur, the lab enabler UR Planeswalker Control UBRW Breya's personal box of combos BRW Vampire beats, by Dre 1 Karn, where all lands are command towers UBR Inalla's Venser lock UBRGW Atog Atog contraption tribal WUB Xur's second chance UGW Derivi, bird tribal R Brother's Yamazaki BRG Prosh, the scourge of multiplayer GW Capt. Sisay's Deck Dumping Service UB All Your Spells do Belong to Me UG Tapioca Pearl BG Meren's grinder
Upsetting it doesn't interact with its own proliferate.
EDIT: Is this the end? Or just people celebrating that Ghazi broke the statue?
That is something I would like to know as well, I took this card to represent them taking down the statue and rejoicing, not that Bolas had lost. (Though I still 100% think he is going to lose)
Especially since why would celebrating a win create tokens ready to fight? Also with the new spoilers, I believe we are right.
Just think what it would take for Chandra to get heavy PTSD as seen in the comics, when all she had to do after Zendikar was sleep it off and getting her ass beaten by Bolas only made her stronger. Someone's gonna pay and the price will be high.
Or -- and stay with me now -- the story is weak and is limping to a mediocre conclusion
It's a good thing a lot of these cards are dope because the story is not nearly on that level
Why are people already moaning about this - "Oh, that was too easy," "Oh, the heroes should have paid a price," "Oh, that was such a painless victory"? You know all this already? I didn't realize we had so many sibyls and clairvoyants on these forums! Truly gifted, this community!
Yeah i mean look at BFZ! Everyone was like "the gatewatch can't just defeat two eldrazi titans so easily" and actually they... oh, wait
Odd you should mention that -- it's because of the overwrought hand-wringing over the art books that I learned to wait and see the story for myself.
The vanquishing of the Eldrazi Titans on Zendikar was no masterpiece of writing by any means. Still, it made at least a modicum of sense in the online fiction, whereas in the art book it made none whatsoever. Was it good, in the fiction? No. Was it much better than the art book made it sound? Well, it's not really saying much, but yeah, it absolutely was. I wan't thrilled, but I could at least accept it.
As for Eldritch Moon: I remember all the eye-rolling when the Innistrad art book revealed that Emrakul got sealed in the moon. I remember because I was rolling eyes along with everyone else. But the delivery in the fiction? Far better than what I'd hoped for, and I know I'm far from the only one who ended up eating my words and praising that ending.
If the art books taught me anything, it was to calm down and wait.
Again, how many named heroes died in Return of the King? Exactly Theoden, and that wasn’t even in the last battle. Literally everyone else comes out okay at the end. Frodo loses a finger.
You forgot Boromir, you monster
.
No, I didn't. Boromir died very early in the saga. I was referring specifically to the climax of the narrative, the Return of the King. The equivalent of where we are now in the Gatewatch's story.
[quote from="Manite »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/808565-planar-celebration?comment=44"]
It's since the bible that "good always triumph over evil".
I guess you haven't read the bible really well since "happy ending" isn't a way to actually describe it.
Whatever you might think of the Book of Revelation, it was written as a message of hope and absolutely intended to have a happy ending (though it was not written to be an ending to the entire Bible; it only ended up becoming one centuries after the fact). God triumphs over Satan, Good defeats Evil, the New Jerusalem is born, the martyrs are vindicated, and God's suffering people are delivered to reign in glory forever. God "wipes away every tear from their eye," and death is no more.
Jewish and Islamic eschatology unfolds similarly, with the triumph of Good and the reign of divine justice.
Same for the Iliad, Chanson the Roland, or Siegfried' saga.
Happy ending isn't something classic at all.
The Iliad, absolutely. What about the Odyssey? Odysseus makes it home to Ithaca, slaughters all his wife's suitors, and finishes the tale back in her arms. It's sweet, really. Ovid's Metamorphoses, meanwhile, ends with the glorious, divine ascension of the new Imperial line, a celebration and prophecy of the glory of Rome.
So the claim that a "Happy ending isn't something classic at all" is simply untrue. "The Classics" are not monolithic like that; they span cultures, eras and genres.
But in the end, I suspect we're getting sidetracked here. Why is any of this relevant to War of the Spark?
The Iliad, absolutely. What about the Odyssey? Odysseus makes it home to Ithaca, slaughters all his wife's suitors, and finishes the tale back in her arms. It's sweet, really.
except that he has several sexual relationships along the way and near the end decided to give up and live the rest of his days with Nausicaa... Before getting drugged and dumped on the shores of Ithaca. Imagine him trying to explain all this to his wife.
The Iliad, absolutely. What about the Odyssey? Odysseus makes it home to Ithaca, slaughters all his wife's suitors, and finishes the tale back in her arms. It's sweet, really.
except that he has several sexual relationships along the way and near the end decided to give up and live the rest of his days with Nausicaa... Before getting drugged and dumped on the shores of Ithaca. Imagine him trying to explain all this to his wife.
Everything we know of sexual mores during the Greco-Roman era would suggest that the amourous relationships would not have been an issue in of themselves and his resignation to his fate was more about Oddyseus grappling with his impossible challenges and learning to live a new life. I suspect Penelope would have been (generally) sympathetic and accepting - in time.
Choose four. You may choose the same mode more than once.
*Create a Citizen creature token 2/2 that's all colors.
*Return a permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.
*Proliferate.
*Gain 4 life.
Because this creates a 5 color token can this be played in atraxa edh? I cant really find anything in the rules addressing this situation.
Yes, color restrictions are based on Mana symbols not the actual color. Just like mono white can create black zombies if they had a card they did so. Also, an effect of a card is quite different from the color identity of the card itself.
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Yeah, and in SOI, Emmy left on her own terms, so that isn't exactly a victory either.
Being defeated here in Ravnica.. is probably just another minor setback to our wise and totally evil elder dragon.
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Yep. And while Kaladesh was a victory locally interplanar wise it was a loss. Outside of Zendikar the only plane that feels like an unambiguous win for the heroes was Ixalan. The rest are more mixed.
Yeah i mean look at BFZ! Everyone was like "the gatewatch can't just defeat two eldrazi titans so easily" and actually they... oh, wait
You forgot Boromir, you monster
I guess you haven't read the bible really well since "happy ending" isn't a way to actually describe it.
Same for the Iliad, Chanson the Roland, or Siegfried' saga.
Happy ending isn't something classic at all.
Regarding leaks, it's totally wizard fault. It's 2019, leaks happen. Haven't they learnt yet? They shouldn't give relevant story cards to third parties, simple as that. Instead of using the mothership to spoil some uncommon draft *****, they should have kept all the story cards and spoil them by themselves.
This. If nobody on the gatewatch dies, then I'll know this was all just a big bucket of nonsense. If Bolas dies, I'll be very sad and I think wizards knows this so they might just return him to Sensei Ryu state for a while, but if none of the main characters get touched in any way, it'll be a waste. You simply cannot walk through the heat of the multiverse's conflicts and get away unscathed.
That sort of is the case. Look at Topple the Statue.
Funny that you bring up those two, Ixalan's factions can't really be clearly delineated as "good" or "evil" (maybe except for the vamps, those are jerks) and the biggest win was the setup made for WAR, and Zendikar will probably have some dire consequences further down the line, though maybe none of the Gatewatch will be alive by that time.
Just think what it would take for Chandra to get heavy PTSD as seen in the comics, when all she had to do after Zendikar was sleep it off and getting her ass beaten by Bolas only made her stronger. Someone's gonna pay and the price will be high.
More Sensei Ryu would be good. Although if WoTC would go this route.. which planeswalker would Bolas trick this time? Venser already kicked the bucket.
Referring to bolded part. Haha, yeah Chandra is surprisingly tough. You get cookie for that. ;p
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
"Story"-wise easily saw the defeat of Bolas a MILE away.
EDIT: Is this the end? Or just people celebrating that Ghazi broke the statue?
Modern
URGTemur ScapeshiftGRU
EDH
WGKarametra EnchantressGW
UBGSidisi, Brood Tyrant ReanimatorGBU
UBRKess DoomsdayRBU
WBGGhave TokensGBW
WUBZur RebelsBUW
WUBErtai CursesBUW
WRFiresong and Sunspeaker Spell SlingerRW
That is something I would like to know as well, I took this card to represent them taking down the statue and rejoicing, not that Bolas had lost. (Though I still 100% think he is going to lose)
UBG Tasigur, the lab enabler UR Planeswalker Control
UBRW Breya's personal box of combos BRW Vampire beats, by Dre
1 Karn, where all lands are command towers UBR Inalla's Venser lock
UBRGW Atog Atog contraption tribal WUB Xur's second chance
UGW Derivi, bird tribal R Brother's Yamazaki
BRG Prosh, the scourge of multiplayer GW Capt. Sisay's Deck Dumping Service
UB All Your Spells do Belong to Me UG Tapioca Pearl
BG Meren's grinder
Especially since why would celebrating a win create tokens ready to fight? Also with the new spoilers, I believe we are right.
Modern
URGTemur ScapeshiftGRU
EDH
WGKarametra EnchantressGW
UBGSidisi, Brood Tyrant ReanimatorGBU
UBRKess DoomsdayRBU
WBGGhave TokensGBW
WUBZur RebelsBUW
WUBErtai CursesBUW
WRFiresong and Sunspeaker Spell SlingerRW
Or -- and stay with me now -- the story is weak and is limping to a mediocre conclusion
It's a good thing a lot of these cards are dope because the story is not nearly on that level
Odd you should mention that -- it's because of the overwrought hand-wringing over the art books that I learned to wait and see the story for myself.
The vanquishing of the Eldrazi Titans on Zendikar was no masterpiece of writing by any means. Still, it made at least a modicum of sense in the online fiction, whereas in the art book it made none whatsoever. Was it good, in the fiction? No. Was it much better than the art book made it sound? Well, it's not really saying much, but yeah, it absolutely was. I wan't thrilled, but I could at least accept it.
As for Eldritch Moon: I remember all the eye-rolling when the Innistrad art book revealed that Emrakul got sealed in the moon. I remember because I was rolling eyes along with everyone else. But the delivery in the fiction? Far better than what I'd hoped for, and I know I'm far from the only one who ended up eating my words and praising that ending.
If the art books taught me anything, it was to calm down and wait.
No, I didn't. Boromir died very early in the saga. I was referring specifically to the climax of the narrative, the Return of the King. The equivalent of where we are now in the Gatewatch's story.
Whatever you might think of the Book of Revelation, it was written as a message of hope and absolutely intended to have a happy ending (though it was not written to be an ending to the entire Bible; it only ended up becoming one centuries after the fact). God triumphs over Satan, Good defeats Evil, the New Jerusalem is born, the martyrs are vindicated, and God's suffering people are delivered to reign in glory forever. God "wipes away every tear from their eye," and death is no more.
Jewish and Islamic eschatology unfolds similarly, with the triumph of Good and the reign of divine justice.
The Iliad, absolutely. What about the Odyssey? Odysseus makes it home to Ithaca, slaughters all his wife's suitors, and finishes the tale back in her arms. It's sweet, really. Ovid's Metamorphoses, meanwhile, ends with the glorious, divine ascension of the new Imperial line, a celebration and prophecy of the glory of Rome.
So the claim that a "Happy ending isn't something classic at all" is simply untrue. "The Classics" are not monolithic like that; they span cultures, eras and genres.
But in the end, I suspect we're getting sidetracked here. Why is any of this relevant to War of the Spark?
Everything we know of sexual mores during the Greco-Roman era would suggest that the amourous relationships would not have been an issue in of themselves and his resignation to his fate was more about Oddyseus grappling with his impossible challenges and learning to live a new life. I suspect Penelope would have been (generally) sympathetic and accepting - in time.
Because this creates a 5 color token can this be played in atraxa edh? I cant really find anything in the rules addressing this situation.
Yes, color restrictions are based on Mana symbols not the actual color. Just like mono white can create black zombies if they had a card they did so. Also, an effect of a card is quite different from the color identity of the card itself.