If the creature becomes illegal target, the whole thing whiffs, right?
Nope. It has two targets, a creature and a player. Spell resolves unless all targets become illegal.
Which is why, as I mention above, you might wanna choose yourself as the mill target. Because if you target your opponent and that opponent's creature, Lazotep Plating could make both illegal targets. Then the spell WOULD fizzle. If the mill targets yourself, Plating would save the opponent's creature but you'd still get the Amass 4.
If the creature becomes illegal target, the whole thing whiffs, right?
No. If a spell has only one target and the target becomes illegal the spell is countered. This targets a player and a creature, so both would have to become illegal (Lazotep Plating *cough*), but in my deck I would use this in, I already play Stitcher's Supplier, so I'll just target myself for the mill.
Good limited rare. In any constructed format, you probably target yourself with the mill to enable GY shenanigans. I think the template would be cleaner and the card better if it was worded as "choose on or more". That way you would not need to target a creature to play it.
Choose one or more:
Deal 4 damage to target creature.
Gain 4 life.
Target player put to the top 4 cards of their library in their graveyard.
That life drain is...so bad. You don't gain a straight 4 life so if you use this to kill smaller things, it gets worse.
Even if the creature has less than four toughness, you're still dealing 4 to it, so you're still gaining 4 life. You'd only gain less if your opponent, say, Healing Graced the damage
Isn't it a little strange that this card can actually invalidate the immortality tuck mechanic of the new gods by milling them off the top of the library post-tuck? Just seems odd from a thematic sense. Also, I think the card is a shade better than its getting credit for. A 4/4 that kills a 4 toughness critter and gains life as an EtB isn't too shabby. And that's without zombie/amass synergies.
Did they change the rules about spell fizzling? I was fairly sure that even if only one of its targets disappears, the whole spell fizzles. Isn't that why spells with multiple targets are generally risky?
Did they change the rules about spell fizzling? I was fairly sure that even if only one of its targets disappears, the whole spell fizzles. Isn't that why spells with multiple targets are generally risky?
No rules change. As long as a spell still has one valid target, it will try to do as much as it can if it's other targets become illegal. The problem with multiple target spells is in order to cast them, you need to have a target for each "target". So if you had Dead Ringers but there was only one creature on board that was beating your face, you can't cast the spell until another creature enters the battlefield.
We'll see if this is good enough for Standard. The mill is (mostly) irrelevant, so the question is whether or not a 4/4 for 2UUB that deals 4 and gains 4 is "good enough". I imagine the answer is dependent on how good Amass is - for example, this is a great curvetopper for Dreadhorde Invasion into Gleaming Overseer or Vizier of the Scorpion into Angrath, Captain of Chaos or Relentless Advance. Getting a 4/4 is fine alone, but a 5/5 is spicier (with Invasion) and if you your army hadn't been previously answered suddenly you're immediately swinging in for 7+ which is quite powerful when you just gained life and cleared blockers and your Army possibly has Hexproof, Menace, Lifelink, and/or Deathtouch.
That life drain is...so bad. You don't gain a straight 4 life so if you use this to kill smaller things, it gets worse.
The card looks okay as a sorcery honestly.
If this was a 4/4 for 5 mana that dealt 4 damage when it came down, drained life, and milled 4, maybe we would look at it differently.
This is not correct. Even if you use this on a 1/1 you do gain 4 life. Creatures don’t die in the middle of a spell resolving, so the spell fully resolves, then the game sees the targeted creature with 4 damage on it and then, if it has less than 4 toughness it dies.
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Look what I got on my way home? Surprised? So was I.
That life drain is...so bad. You don't gain a straight 4 life so if you use this to kill smaller things, it gets worse.
The card looks okay as a sorcery honestly.
If this was a 4/4 for 5 mana that dealt 4 damage when it came down, drained life, and milled 4, maybe we would look at it differently.
If you gain life you will pretty much always gain the 4. No matter what a creatures toughness is the full 4 damage is dealt so even if it's an x/1 you'll gain 4. The only time you don't gain the life is if the creature dies before the spell resolves (so no damage is dealt) or if the damage is otherwise prevented. Honestly I have no idea why they didn't just make it gain 4 though it would be so much cleaner.
Did they change the rules about spell fizzling? I was fairly sure that even if only one of its targets disappears, the whole spell fizzles. Isn't that why spells with multiple targets are generally risky?
I can't recall the rules ever working this way. So if there was a rules change there, it would have to have been before I started playing in '99 or so.
Dimir siege rhino that snipes a little critter, gains a little extra, helps fill your graveyard, gains 1 extra life but loses 1 toughness.
Also cant be flickered or blinked, but does have a more relevant creature type and plays nice with instant/sorcery synergies.
I approve.
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Isn't it a little strange that this card can actually invalidate the immortality tuck mechanic of the new gods by milling them off the top of the library post-tuck? Just seems odd from a thematic sense. Also, I think the card is a shade better than its getting credit for. A 4/4 that kills a 4 toughness critter and gains life as an EtB isn't too shabby. And that's without zombie/amass synergies.
Maybe the God-Eternals kill Ilharg who has the same mechanic. Then that would immediately turn from a thematic oddity to a thematic foreshadowing through mechanics.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Nope. It has two targets, a creature and a player. Spell resolves unless all targets become illegal.
Which is why, as I mention above, you might wanna choose yourself as the mill target. Because if you target your opponent and that opponent's creature, Lazotep Plating could make both illegal targets. Then the spell WOULD fizzle. If the mill targets yourself, Plating would save the opponent's creature but you'd still get the Amass 4.
No. If a spell has only one target and the target becomes illegal the spell is countered. This targets a player and a creature, so both would have to become illegal (Lazotep Plating *cough*), but in my deck I would use this in, I already play Stitcher's Supplier, so I'll just target myself for the mill.
Choose one or more:
We got one
Bontu
Same protection as the boar god
ETB sac any number of other non land permanents draw that many cards
Any permanents, actually.
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No rules change. As long as a spell still has one valid target, it will try to do as much as it can if it's other targets become illegal. The problem with multiple target spells is in order to cast them, you need to have a target for each "target". So if you had Dead Ringers but there was only one creature on board that was beating your face, you can't cast the spell until another creature enters the battlefield.
[180 classic cube]
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
you get a 4/4 creature, deal 4 damage to a creature, gain 4 life and mill 4 cards ... for 5 mana as a rare... what is there to complain about ?
its not like this card will be worth alot, but i think this card is playable and not just in limited
This is not correct. Even if you use this on a 1/1 you do gain 4 life. Creatures don’t die in the middle of a spell resolving, so the spell fully resolves, then the game sees the targeted creature with 4 damage on it and then, if it has less than 4 toughness it dies.
If you gain life you will pretty much always gain the 4. No matter what a creatures toughness is the full 4 damage is dealt so even if it's an x/1 you'll gain 4. The only time you don't gain the life is if the creature dies before the spell resolves (so no damage is dealt) or if the damage is otherwise prevented. Honestly I have no idea why they didn't just make it gain 4 though it would be so much cleaner.
I think it's fine, considering that the people of Ravnica feel like they're winning at the point the God-Eternals enter the scene.
ISn't there a planeswalker that increases the damage your spells deal though? Ot is that one tied to a color or somehing that doesn't apply to this?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Also cant be flickered or blinked, but does have a more relevant creature type and plays nice with instant/sorcery synergies.
I approve.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Maybe the God-Eternals kill Ilharg who has the same mechanic. Then that would immediately turn from a thematic oddity to a thematic foreshadowing through mechanics.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
I think it's a fine card, and I would love to play it off the new Kefnet.
It's a nice, playable rare with the potential to seriously upset a game. Cool art, to boot. I'll probably run 2 in the deck I'm currently brewing.