not that impressed with either of them. actually, not really impressed with them including their feud here either. how did sorin get out of the stone? the entire plane is going to hell and these two older ancient walkers act like children and have to fight with each other?
ability wise, the original nahiri made tokens and equipment... everything about her since has focused on vengeance and hate, its really kind of tiresome and uninteresting. i want to see what else she can do other than be a petty *****. aw boo hoo she was stuck in stone for endless amounts of time, you're out now, get over it. she's starting to feel more red/black than red/white.
and as for sorin... what about those abilities is vengeful? he's a decent card, nothing great, just decent
I'm just happy for the Vicious Hunger pseudo-reprint/improvement. Sorin looks pretty solid though, nice power level on both, with neither being too pushed.
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Is it so hard to imagine that Nahiri is rightfully pissed at Sorin? It doesn’t justify what she did to Innistrad. However Sorin was her friend and mentor for thousands of years before she had to sound the alarm that he had promised to answer. And when he didn’t, the start of her feeling betrayed, she went looking for him only for him to tell her “sorry I was to busy setting up my home security system.” And then when she got upset with him he locked her in the Helvault and just left her there. Not like he couldn’t have let her have a time out and then get her out when she’s cooled off. No he left her there for millenia while Avacyn was locking demons in there with her. Nahiri has a right to be upset with, and feel betrayed by, Sorin and Oldwalkers are known for their long memories. Again it doesn’t justify bringing Emrakul to Innistrad but it also isn’t just something you “get over.”
So, Sorin supposedly gained white when he came back to Innistrad to represent his obligations and position there. Now he seems focused solely on Nahiri but keeps the white? OK...
And then when she got upset with him he locked her in the Helvault and just left her there. Not like he couldn’t have let her have a time out and then get her out when she’s cooled off. No he left her there for millenia while Avacyn was locking demons in there with her. Nahiri has a right to be upset with, and feel betrayed by, Sorin and Oldwalkers are known for their long memories. Again it doesn’t justify bringing Emrakul to Innistrad but it also isn’t just something you “get over.”
He locked her up since she wouldn't relent. She could have left, maybe return later (or leave Sorin in her past completely) but Nahiri decided she needs to beat him and force him to come to Zendikar. She struck the first blow, and ignored everything other than "beat Sorin here and now".
Also, did the Helvault even allow for releasing things imprisoned within (aside from destroying it)? I don't recall such a thing being mentioned, and since the purpose was to bind threats to Innistrad within, it isn't that improbable that it was a one-way thing by design.
So, Sorin supposedly gained white when he came back to Innistrad to represent his obligations and position there. Now he seems focused solely on Nahiri but keeps the white? OK...
And then when she got upset with him he locked her in the Helvault and just left her there. Not like he couldn’t have let her have a time out and then get her out when she’s cooled off. No he left her there for millenia while Avacyn was locking demons in there with her. Nahiri has a right to be upset with, and feel betrayed by, Sorin and Oldwalkers are known for their long memories. Again it doesn’t justify bringing Emrakul to Innistrad but it also isn’t just something you “get over.”
He locked her up since she wouldn't relent. She could have left, maybe return later (or leave Sorin in her past completely) but Nahiri decided she needs to beat him and force him to come to Zendikar. She struck the first blow, and ignored everything other than "beat Sorin here and now".
Also, did the Helvault even allow for releasing things imprisoned within (aside from destroying it)? I don't recall such a thing being mentioned, and since the purpose was to bind threats to Innistrad within, it isn't that improbable that it was a one-way thing by design.
Dude Sorin has always Ben orzhov colored the only acception was his first ever card sorin Markov after that he’s always Ben black white
So, Sorin supposedly gained white when he came back to Innistrad to represent his obligations and position there. Now he seems focused solely on Nahiri but keeps the white? OK...
He locked her up since she wouldn't relent. She could have left, maybe return later (or leave Sorin in her past completely) but Nahiri decided she needs to beat him and force him to come to Zendikar. She struck the first blow, and ignored everything other than "beat Sorin here and now".
Also, did the Helvault even allow for releasing things imprisoned within (aside from destroying it)? I don't recall such a thing being mentioned, and since the purpose was to bind threats to Innistrad within, it isn't that improbable that it was a one-way thing by design.
I don't think you understand what I was saying. Sorin's point of view and objectivity aren't relevant in this. It's how Nahiri feels that's important. People don't just get over major betrayals like that. As far as the Helvault; Sorin made it and he's no idiot. Surely he could have gotten people out of it if he wanted to. He's just an ass.
And yes, as was said above: Literally every Sorin card but the first one has been BW. To represent that Sorin has a wider scope to his viewpoint than his kindred.
I like Nahiri's static, but damaging tapped creatures? I would have preferred Equipment tokens myself.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Sorin made it and he's no idiot. Surely he could have gotten people out of it if he wanted to.
We don't know that, if he could get people out of it why didn't he take Avacyn Out?
Nahiri feels that's important.
And Nahiri didn't handle how she felt very well, Sorin was working on something and missed the Phonecall about the Eldrazi and she came in very angry and demanding why he didn't pick up the phone while he was a little bit busy, so she showed up angry and potentially violent.
He's just an ass.
Just like every other Old Walker, Nahiri Included, because instead of keeping an eye on the Eldrazi's seal she went to sleep which allowed people to Deify the Eldrazi and toy with the Hedrons. Do you know what maybe would have prevented the Eldrazi from leaking through the seals the first time? The person who was supposed to be watching them actually watching them and going to get Ugin(maybe) and Sorin when it first started happening, so it could be fixed before it became a problem. Nahiri and Sorin's lovers spat is entirely "everybody is freaking wrong because Oldwalkers were freaking children a vast majority of the time."
I really wish the 1 v 1 card only impacted your opponents. That make it actually worthwhile or at least forced your opponent to keep a Walker or Legendary Creature.
Nahiri is so annoying! Yes you're upset, but the multiverse doesn't revolve around you! Kill Bolas, then fight Sorin (and lose *fingers crossed*).
But I actually like both of these. Nahiri is just an enchantment with "sac this, kill a tapped threat" and Sorin is good. My only concern with Sorin is whether or not he's better than the other B/W 4 drop Sorins...
Couldn't the exact same thing be said about Sorin? Seems like you're signaling her out for things that they're both guilty of, but giving Sorin a pass.
Couldn't the exact same thing be said about Sorin? Seems like you're signaling her out for things that they're both guilty of, but giving Sorin a pass.
Except they aren't guilty of the same thing, not remotely. Sorin's antagonistic act was an accident. Nahiri did what she did on purpose, and of note. Neither of these two are really in a position to know what is going on as Nahiri likely doesn't even know who Bolas is, and Sorin was out of commission for the last few months.
You have two people who actively want to kill each other getting yanked to one spot, what do you think is going to happen?
Oh and that Sorin Markov was in agonizing physical pain constantly until his escape from the rock as he couldn't planeswalk while in that state of pain. That said pain could be equated to physical torture. That while in said constant pain, he was forced to bear witness to suddenly a lovecraftian monster suddenly appearing on his plane known as Emrakul. That said Emrakul went about destroying and warping as much it could about the plane he acted as lord and protector for. That he likely went through mental anguish in addition to his physical pain as he was effectively helpless to stop her. Also, all or most his entire family being killed.
And you know who is at fault for that? Nahiri. All of it was her doing. Sure Sorin put her in there and didn't do anything to release her for thousands of years as she suffered from mental trauma, but that doesn't suddenly make her the good person in this scenario. However, that also doesn't make Sorin suddenly be seen as silly or unrealistic for pursuing revenge against her.
That both parties are at fault. Thats what makes their increasing grudge match while on Ravnica entertaining. How much these old walkers hate each other so much that they will fight each other constantly. That the only brief truce they'd agree to is to stop other threats from stopping their fighting.
Yeah the destruction of Zendikar is Ugin, Sorin, Nahiri, Bolas, Chandra, Jace, Sarkhan, Nissa and Ob's fault.
The destruction of Innistrad was all Nahiri's.
And Nahiri was given the chance to fight for Zendikar when Thalia destroyed the Hellvault. But she chose not to, she chose to hurt Sorin instead.
Sorin is an anti-hero and an ********. But Nahiri is a villain.
Nahiri thought Zendikar was done for when she got out. The Eldrazi are (to her) unbeatable. It requires three Oldwalkers just to seal them. Giving up hope and going for vengeance is perfectly understandable.
And Sorin has, repeatedly, screwed up too. It’s ridiculous to pin it only on Nahiri. They’re both in the wrong by a ridiculous amount.
Kiss kiss.
ability wise, the original nahiri made tokens and equipment... everything about her since has focused on vengeance and hate, its really kind of tiresome and uninteresting. i want to see what else she can do other than be a petty *****. aw boo hoo she was stuck in stone for endless amounts of time, you're out now, get over it. she's starting to feel more red/black than red/white.
and as for sorin... what about those abilities is vengeful? he's a decent card, nothing great, just decent
If so I'm a little wary of this particular ship...
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If it dealt X damage to Y creatures you would gain X life Y times.
I mean, Sorin's Thirst is a genuine reprint - it obsoleted Vicious Hunger a long time ago.
It was originally printed in M12, and reprinted in the Sorin v Tibalt duel deck.
He locked her up since she wouldn't relent. She could have left, maybe return later (or leave Sorin in her past completely) but Nahiri decided she needs to beat him and force him to come to Zendikar. She struck the first blow, and ignored everything other than "beat Sorin here and now".
Also, did the Helvault even allow for releasing things imprisoned within (aside from destroying it)? I don't recall such a thing being mentioned, and since the purpose was to bind threats to Innistrad within, it isn't that improbable that it was a one-way thing by design.
Dude Sorin has always Ben orzhov colored the only acception was his first ever card sorin Markov after that he’s always Ben black white
I don't think you understand what I was saying. Sorin's point of view and objectivity aren't relevant in this. It's how Nahiri feels that's important. People don't just get over major betrayals like that. As far as the Helvault; Sorin made it and he's no idiot. Surely he could have gotten people out of it if he wanted to. He's just an ass.
And yes, as was said above: Literally every Sorin card but the first one has been BW. To represent that Sorin has a wider scope to his viewpoint than his kindred.
Can she reduce equip costs to 0?
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She doesn't say no. Most abilities that do this sort of thing specify that it can't reduce the cost past 1. See Training Grounds.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
We don't know that, if he could get people out of it why didn't he take Avacyn Out?
And Nahiri didn't handle how she felt very well, Sorin was working on something and missed the Phonecall about the Eldrazi and she came in very angry and demanding why he didn't pick up the phone while he was a little bit busy, so she showed up angry and potentially violent.
Just like every other Old Walker, Nahiri Included, because instead of keeping an eye on the Eldrazi's seal she went to sleep which allowed people to Deify the Eldrazi and toy with the Hedrons. Do you know what maybe would have prevented the Eldrazi from leaking through the seals the first time? The person who was supposed to be watching them actually watching them and going to get Ugin(maybe) and Sorin when it first started happening, so it could be fixed before it became a problem. Nahiri and Sorin's lovers spat is entirely "everybody is freaking wrong because Oldwalkers were freaking children a vast majority of the time."
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Couldn't the exact same thing be said about Sorin? Seems like you're signaling her out for things that they're both guilty of, but giving Sorin a pass.
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Except they aren't guilty of the same thing, not remotely. Sorin's antagonistic act was an accident. Nahiri did what she did on purpose, and of note. Neither of these two are really in a position to know what is going on as Nahiri likely doesn't even know who Bolas is, and Sorin was out of commission for the last few months.
You have two people who actively want to kill each other getting yanked to one spot, what do you think is going to happen?
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Atraxa hates fun
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And you know who is at fault for that? Nahiri. All of it was her doing. Sure Sorin put her in there and didn't do anything to release her for thousands of years as she suffered from mental trauma, but that doesn't suddenly make her the good person in this scenario. However, that also doesn't make Sorin suddenly be seen as silly or unrealistic for pursuing revenge against her.
That both parties are at fault. Thats what makes their increasing grudge match while on Ravnica entertaining. How much these old walkers hate each other so much that they will fight each other constantly. That the only brief truce they'd agree to is to stop other threats from stopping their fighting.
The destruction of Innistrad was all Nahiri's.
And Nahiri was given the chance to fight for Zendikar when Thalia destroyed the Hellvault. But she chose not to, she chose to hurt Sorin instead.
Sorin is an anti-hero and an ********. But Nahiri is a villain.
And Sorin has, repeatedly, screwed up too. It’s ridiculous to pin it only on Nahiri. They’re both in the wrong by a ridiculous amount.
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