Any thoughts on whether Gideon would trigger humans like Champion of the Parish or Thalia's Lieutenant? In my head it makes sense that, since it's your turn when you play him, he enters the battlefield as a human.
No. He’s not entering the battlefield. He’s just gaining types, a power/toughness and some keywords.
The poster is asking if gideon would trigger those abilities the turn you play him, not if it would trigger every time he became a human.
Assuming gideon first enters the battlefield on your turn - yes, he would trigger creature ETB abilities like Champion of the Parish since he would enter the battlefield as a 4/4 human. If you somehow put him into play when it wasn't your turn then he wouldn't though since he wouldn't be a creature then.
And yea, his type-changing every turn does not trigger ETBs since he doesn't re-enter the battlefield, he just changes types while on the battlefield.
Exactly what I was asking, thank you. I'm aware that him becoming a creature on subsequent turns doesn't count. I wonder if he'll see play in Modern Humans as a result; the 3 drop slot is crowded as is.
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Standard Decks:
:symw::symw:W/u Humans (No Geist!):symw::symu:
Record: 22-3-0
Any thoughts on whether Gideon would trigger humans like Champion of the Parish or Thalia's Lieutenant? In my head it makes sense that, since it's your turn when you play him, he enters the battlefield as a human.
Hope this answer your question. Gideon the most human walker
611.3cContinuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don't wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
Example: A permanent with the static ability "All white creatures get +1/+1" is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead creates a 2/2 white creature. The creature doesn't enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then change to 2/2.
Damn, too late. Should not look for the rule to reference it
Any thoughts on whether Gideon would trigger humans like Champion of the Parish or Thalia's Lieutenant? In my head it makes sense that, since it's your turn when you play him, he enters the battlefield as a human.
Hope this answer your question. Gideon the most human walker
611.3cContinuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don't wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
Example: A permanent with the static ability "All white creatures get +1/+1" is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead creates a 2/2 white creature. The creature doesn't enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then change to 2/2.
Damn, too late. Should not look for the rule to reference it
Nah, I appreciate the rule reference!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard Decks:
:symw::symw:W/u Humans (No Geist!):symw::symu:
Record: 22-3-0
Black already has a lot of tutors, but if you wanted to make the exile cards from libraries more robust for different matchups, then you can make cards like, Bitter Ordeal and Lost Legacy into tutors for artifacts for yourself.
There is also the means to use your graveyard as an additional resource.
For example say you have cards like Relic of Progenitus, Scrabbling Claws or Scavenger Grounds. You can specifically target your own artifacts in graveyard that you might have already used, or got removed, or even milled, to get back with Karn, the Great Creator [-2] ability.
Mimic Vat can exile an artifact creature to get back to hand. Haven't thought about this much, but I'm sure it's abusable.
Anyway there will be a ton of ways to use this card on levels that you might not have thought about, and to boot it's a one-sided Null Rod.
Most of the stuff I've been talking about is for commander, but actually for Vintage it could actually be playable..
The reason is that with the delve cards in Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise you'll often be exiling your Black Lotus, Moxes, etc, so the [-2] gives you access to them. The Null Rod ability is very powerful in Vintage, and the [+1] can be used on opponents Moxes to kill them.
Plus even if you have creature removal against a creature-less deck, it gives you the ability to make an artifact a creature, to then Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, etc it.
My guess is that this is going to be an underrated card in general, but I see everything with cards.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Exactly what I was asking, thank you. I'm aware that him becoming a creature on subsequent turns doesn't count. I wonder if he'll see play in Modern Humans as a result; the 3 drop slot is crowded as is.
:symw::symw:W/u Humans (No Geist!):symw::symu:
Record: 22-3-0
Hope this answer your question. Gideon the most human walker
611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don't wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
Example: A permanent with the static ability "All white creatures get +1/+1" is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead creates a 2/2 white creature. The creature doesn't enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then change to 2/2.
Damn, too late. Should not look for the rule to reference it
Nah, I appreciate the rule reference!
:symw::symw:W/u Humans (No Geist!):symw::symu:
Record: 22-3-0
If you look at the "wishes", like Living Wish, Cunning Wish, etc, they specifically are only "outside the game", and are not able to target exile.
Karn, the Great Creator can get artifacts that have been exiled with Karn, Scion of Urza.
You can use his ability to give yourself access to your deck in a number of different ways.
Color-pies that normally can't search for artifacts, or limited number, now have another means.
Skyship Weatherlight
Mangara's Tome
Jester's Cap
Myr Incubator
It can give mono-blue more ways to search for artifacts
Distant Memories
Extract
Foresight
Manipulate Fate
Parallel Thoughts
Selective Memory
Red can use Hoarding Dragon to get it straight away.
Black already has a lot of tutors, but if you wanted to make the exile cards from libraries more robust for different matchups, then you can make cards like, Bitter Ordeal and Lost Legacy into tutors for artifacts for yourself.
There is also the means to use your graveyard as an additional resource.
For example say you have cards like Relic of Progenitus, Scrabbling Claws or Scavenger Grounds. You can specifically target your own artifacts in graveyard that you might have already used, or got removed, or even milled, to get back with Karn, the Great Creator [-2] ability.
Saprazzan Bailiff for major value.
Prototype Portal can cheekily get the artifact back to hand.
Mimic Vat can exile an artifact creature to get back to hand. Haven't thought about this much, but I'm sure it's abusable.
Anyway there will be a ton of ways to use this card on levels that you might not have thought about, and to boot it's a one-sided Null Rod.
Most of the stuff I've been talking about is for commander, but actually for Vintage it could actually be playable..
The reason is that with the delve cards in Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise you'll often be exiling your Black Lotus, Moxes, etc, so the [-2] gives you access to them. The Null Rod ability is very powerful in Vintage, and the [+1] can be used on opponents Moxes to kill them.
Plus even if you have creature removal against a creature-less deck, it gives you the ability to make an artifact a creature, to then Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, etc it.
My guess is that this is going to be an underrated card in general, but I see everything with cards.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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