If it were returning, this doesn’t interact with it because cycling abilities can only be activated while a card is in your hand - artifacts, creatures, and lands are only those things while on the battlefield. (They’re just “[permanent] cards” while in your hand.)
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But that’s just harsh mentor but one da,age weaker
Harsh Mentor only cares about cards on the field, so it couldn't hose Cycling or Eternalize. Granted, there's not much to hose in the Grave or hand right now, but it's still an interesting distinction to have.
If it were returning, this doesn’t interact with it because cycling abilities can only be activated while a card is in your hand - artifacts, creatures, and lands are only those things while on the battlefield. (They’re just “[permanent] cards” while in your hand.)
But that’s just harsh mentor but one da,age weaker
Harsh Mentor only cares about cards on the field, so it couldn't hose Cycling or Eternalize. Granted, there's not much to hose in the Grave or hand right now, but it's still an interesting distinction to have.
I think this is the same, just new templating. When cards interact with others in non-battlefield zones they are followed by the word card. I.e. whenever a player users an ability of a creature or creature card, would interact with cards in hand or w/e.
But that’s just harsh mentor but one da,age weaker
Harsh Mentor only cares about cards on the field, so it couldn't hose Cycling or Eternalize. Granted, there's not much to hose in the Grave or hand right now, but it's still an interesting distinction to have.
Am I missing something? This guy doesn't say "card" so he does not see cards not on the battlefield either.
Am I missing something? This guy doesn't say "card" so he does not see cards not on the battlefield either.
You aren't missing anything. Immolation Shaman's ability triggers only for permanents, not for cards in your hand. Now, that being said, the question becomes: does the shaman trigger for effects such as Reassembling Skeleton?
The problem with cards like this is that Harsh Mentor was legal in Standard when Heart of Kiran was around and yet it never saw much play. I guess we'll just have to see what happens this time around.
No, because the player's activating an ability on a creature card in their graveyard as opposed to a creature permanent on the battlefield. It doesn't matter that the ability's effect returns the card to the battlefield.
The general rule is that if you're activating an ability of an object that isn't on the battlefield, effects such as Immolation Shaman's and Harsh Mentor's don't apply to it. Artifacts, creatures, and lands only exist on the battlefield; outside the battlefield they are artifact, creature, and land cards. The "on the battlefield" clause on Harsh Mentor is probably unnecessary.
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No, because the player's activating an ability on a creature card in their graveyard as opposed to a creature permanent on the battlefield. It doesn't matter that the ability's effect returns the card to the battlefield.
That's what I thought but it is always best to confirm my suspicions.
As far as I know, Immolation Shaman should trigger on abilities from cards not in the field, same way that a Ulamog-Spell and Vengeful Pharaoh-in-Grave still can't kill a creature with Pro-Creatures as cards that care about abilities don't care about where their source stems from, just what the source itself is.
I decided to ask Eli Shiffrin himself and he confirmed that this card is supposed to work the same as Harsh Mentor (and Runic Armasaur and other creatures with a similar trigger condition). The only reason Harsh Mentor has the "on the battlefield" clause is due to Amonkhet having a large number of cards with abilities that interact with creature cards not on the battlefield.
"It works the same as Harsh Mentor. Unlike Harsh Mentor, this doesn't exist in a set where every single mechanic appears to trigger it without actually interacting at all, so Harsh Mentor got helpful redundant words while this did not."
So no, Immolation Shaman does not trigger upon activating cycling abilities, Reassembling Skeleton's ability, etc. because those are not activated abilities of artifacts, creatures, or lands - they are activated abilities of artifact, creature, and land cards not on the battlefield.
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If it were returning, this doesn’t interact with it because cycling abilities can only be activated while a card is in your hand - artifacts, creatures, and lands are only those things while on the battlefield. (They’re just “[permanent] cards” while in your hand.)
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Could you imagine a new Viashino Legend... ?
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StaffI think this is the same, just new templating. When cards interact with others in non-battlefield zones they are followed by the word card. I.e. whenever a player users an ability of a creature or creature card, would interact with cards in hand or w/e.
Am I missing something? This guy doesn't say "card" so he does not see cards not on the battlefield either.
You aren't missing anything. Immolation Shaman's ability triggers only for permanents, not for cards in your hand. Now, that being said, the question becomes: does the shaman trigger for effects such as Reassembling Skeleton?
The problem with cards like this is that Harsh Mentor was legal in Standard when Heart of Kiran was around and yet it never saw much play. I guess we'll just have to see what happens this time around.
No, because the player's activating an ability on a creature card in their graveyard as opposed to a creature permanent on the battlefield. It doesn't matter that the ability's effect returns the card to the battlefield.
The general rule is that if you're activating an ability of an object that isn't on the battlefield, effects such as Immolation Shaman's and Harsh Mentor's don't apply to it. Artifacts, creatures, and lands only exist on the battlefield; outside the battlefield they are artifact, creature, and land cards. The "on the battlefield" clause on Harsh Mentor is probably unnecessary.
I think we're due for one.
With the way it's worded, I wonder if it's a subtle hint of potential returns of fetch-style lands in the future? Am I looking too much into it?
I need a coffee...
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That's what I thought but it is always best to confirm my suspicions.
"It works the same as Harsh Mentor. Unlike Harsh Mentor, this doesn't exist in a set where every single mechanic appears to trigger it without actually interacting at all, so Harsh Mentor got helpful redundant words while this did not."
So no, Immolation Shaman does not trigger upon activating cycling abilities, Reassembling Skeleton's ability, etc. because those are not activated abilities of artifacts, creatures, or lands - they are activated abilities of artifact, creature, and land cards not on the battlefield.
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