What he described isn't "Christmasland". All that is needed is the Vannifar with the ability to activate, and a single creature. That's not hard to do in the slightest.
It's at least a little christmassy to expect that you have a deck that has all those cards in it but you haven't actually drawn any of them yet by the time you reach a point in the game that you could start the combo.
That isn't true at all this this thing is really easy to stop.
no, it's not.
on commander, this will be crazy bananas....
you'll just drop it again and again and again, equip it with stuff like Lightning Greaves, etc, etc, etc.
on regular magic games, sure, you can get rid of it, but as a commander... specially one that allows for a TON of searching and shuffling, it will be hard to swallow.
Sure if you aren't playing disruption.
Because I'm sure you always have Force of Will, Pact of Negation, 4 counterspells, and a million mana every single turn, right?
That isn't true at all this this thing is really easy to stop.
no, it's not.
on commander, this will be crazy bananas....
you'll just drop it again and again and again, equip it with stuff like Lightning Greaves, etc, etc, etc.
on regular magic games, sure, you can get rid of it, but as a commander... specially one that allows for a TON of searching and shuffling, it will be hard to swallow.
Sure if you aren't playing disruption.
You’ll run out of “disruption” we’ll before they run out of mana. Believing you’ll reliably be able to remove/disrupt a mana-less ability is a bit far fetched.
This card is pretty busted. I don’t like jumping on premature ban hammers, but this certainly looks the part. It just has all of the bad things that made PoK banned, but much worse.
Actually, I could seriously see this as being too centralizing in the format. Sit at the table, flip over commanders, table collectively goes “well, we can’t let him/her untap with that ever”.
Commander games don't last forever.
Saying they will always be able to cast their Commander negates that you and 2 other people also have decks that I am assuming are doing things during all this and not just removing or disrupting this lady.
She is a creature so that opens the ways to disrupt her into every color under the sun, as well as the counterspells you mention as the only way to stop her????
Sorry I don't buy it, this creature is good for sure but people will adapt and then every so often She will explode but a lot of the time she will will run into something she can not overcome, very similar to PoK in that way but not nearly as good.
It's more or less as good as Birthing Pod was, with the caveat that it's more vulnerable to removal.
It is impossible to remove from the game.
This card is really dumb.
That isn't true at all this this thing is really easy to stop.
no, it's not.
on commander, this will be crazy bananas....
you'll just drop it again and again and again, equip it with stuff like Lightning Greaves, etc, etc, etc.
on regular magic games, sure, you can get rid of it, but as a commander... specially one that allows for a TON of searching and shuffling, it will be hard to swallow.
Sure if you aren't playing disruption.
you do realize that every time you spend removal on a commander you're setting you one card back, right?
it's mostly irrelevant to kill commanders spending important cards when your opponent has the mana to recast it right away.
If I'm playing this card as my commander, my deck is certainly having a lot of 2 things....
1. mana dorks to be able to cast my big dudes without really needing the commander every time
2. haste enablers.
you kill it? alright, you've set yourself one card back, I cast the commander again, tap it, sac a dude... keep it rolling.
you have to successfully kill him more times than I'm able to pay 2 extra mana for him, or you essentially did nothing....
it's HARD to deal.
That isn't true at all this this thing is really easy to stop.
no, it's not.
on commander, this will be crazy bananas....
you'll just drop it again and again and again, equip it with stuff like Lightning Greaves, etc, etc, etc.
on regular magic games, sure, you can get rid of it, but as a commander... specially one that allows for a TON of searching and shuffling, it will be hard to swallow.
Sure if you aren't playing disruption.
you do realize that every time you spend removal on a commander you're setting you one card back, right?
it's mostly irrelevant to kill commanders spending important cards when your opponent has the mana to recast it right away.
If I'm playing this card as my commander, my deck is certainly having a lot of 2 things....
1. mana dorks to be able to cast my big dudes without really needing the commander every time
2. haste enablers.
you kill it? alright, you've set yourself one card back, I cast the commander again, tap it, sac a dude... keep it rolling.
you have to successfully kill him more times than I'm able to pay 2 extra mana for him, or you essentially did nothing....
it's HARD to deal.
You are describing every Simic deck that has ever existed congratulations, they aren't that hard to overcome and this lady won't really be any different.
Birthing Pod is already a stick! This isn't Birthing Pod on a stick. If it were, using it would have the effect of casting Birthing Pod, which it definitely doesn't do.
This is a very good card from the command zone, and will be just as good in the 99. I really think she will be problematic. I hope not, but it just hits a few criteria on the ban philosophy without even being out of the box.
That isn't true at all this this thing is really easy to stop.
no, it's not.
on commander, this will be crazy bananas....
you'll just drop it again and again and again, equip it with stuff like Lightning Greaves, etc, etc, etc.
on regular magic games, sure, you can get rid of it, but as a commander... specially one that allows for a TON of searching and shuffling, it will be hard to swallow.
Sure if you aren't playing disruption.
Because I'm sure you always have Force of Will, Pact of Negation, 4 counterspells, and a million mana every single turn, right?
That isn't true at all this this thing is really easy to stop.
no, it's not.
on commander, this will be crazy bananas....
you'll just drop it again and again and again, equip it with stuff like Lightning Greaves, etc, etc, etc.
on regular magic games, sure, you can get rid of it, but as a commander... specially one that allows for a TON of searching and shuffling, it will be hard to swallow.
Sure if you aren't playing disruption.
You’ll run out of “disruption” we’ll before they run out of mana. Believing you’ll reliably be able to remove/disrupt a mana-less ability is a bit far fetched.
This card is pretty busted. I don’t like jumping on premature ban hammers, but this certainly looks the part. It just has all of the bad things that made PoK banned, but much worse.
Actually, I could seriously see this as being too centralizing in the format. Sit at the table, flip over commanders, table collectively goes “well, we can’t let him/her untap with that ever”.
Commander games don't last forever.
Saying they will always be able to cast their Commander negates that you and 2 other people also have decks that I am assuming are doing things during all this and not just removing or disrupting this lady.
She is a creature so that opens the ways to disrupt her into every color under the sun, as well as the counterspells you mention as the only way to stop her????
Sorry I don't buy it, this creature is good for sure but people will adapt and then every so often She will explode but a lot of the time she will will run into something she can not overcome, very similar to PoK in that way but not nearly as good.
Oh no, she's slightly worse than a card that was banned in EDH. How terrible. 25 cent rare. Total garbage.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Kind of makes me wonder if this brings back the pod decks in modern. If there's a way to cast this and give it hast turn 3, it's possible. Heck just using this on turn 4 (after casting turn 3) will still give you the turn 4 kill. This should have cost one mana to activate or something, I mean that would still make it great for commander, but not modern playable.
Karmic guide isn't modern legal. Also Resto doesn't work with Vannifar because after you blink it you cant activate its tap ability again because its summoning sick.
The chain would look more like this:
T1 land, birds.
T2 land
T3 land, Vannifar
T4 (with counter mana available) pod away birds for scryb ranger, untap Vannifar, pod ranger for renegade rallier get back ranger untap Vannifar, pod ranger for exarch untap Vannifar, pod rallier for angel blink exarch untap Vannifar, pod angel for Kiki
You could even kill on turn 3 if you had something that could grant haste to vannifar that you could cast turn 2 like goblin motivator, I'm sure there's better options though.
Huh. Two turns slower than Birthing Pod, and more vulnerable to removal, but an easier tutor target for decks that want her. She will probably have an impact on Standard. I'm curious about Modern...
Huh. Two turns slower than Birthing Pod, and more vulnerable to removal, but an easier tutor target for decks that want her. She will probably have an impact on Standard. I'm curious about Modern...
One turn. Without ramp or any other kind of support, Pod activates turn 4, and Vannifar comes down turn 4 and activates turn 5. As others in the thread have noted, she comes with a few other significant advantages. The fact that her activated ability does not cost mana, as well as her being a creature, make it much easier to chain multiple activations in a single turn than with pod.
Huh. Two turns slower than Birthing Pod, and more vulnerable to removal, but an easier tutor target for decks that want her. She will probably have an impact on Standard. I'm curious about Modern...
Intruder Alarm is modern legal. Not sure what your end game would be besides crazy ETB triggers though.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
They really just reprint the same cards over and over again ...
Incredible lazy job.
Only So many things you can do. Magic has been around for 25 years now.
I think it has more to do with WotC needing to maintain game balance instead of letting creativity fly and risk breaking the game. They need cards in regular products to be first and foremost Standard playable since that’s the major rotation, then Modern playable, then EDH i.e. fun and wacky.
Huh. Two turns slower than Birthing Pod, and more vulnerable to removal, but an easier tutor target for decks that want her. She will probably have an impact on Standard. I'm curious about Modern...
One turn. Without ramp or any other kind of support, Pod activates turn 4, and Vannifar comes down turn 4 and activates turn 5. As others in the thread have noted, she comes with a few other significant advantages. The fact that her activated ability does not cost mana, as well as her being a creature, make it much easier to chain multiple activations in a single turn than with pod.
Point conceded. I was holding two thoughts in my head - "Pod can activate the turn it enters" and "Pod can enter on turn three (two with ramp)" - without bearing in mind that each means the other isn't happening.
This card is really, really good in Commander. I am not sure it will remain legal.
It is really good in Commander... you can build your whole deck around it... not something you could do with Birthing Pod as one card in 99.
It is an elf, so easy to untap. It wins the game with Intruder Alarm. It is so easy to tutor an untap effect to use the ability over and over again in the same turn.
Ultimately, it will only be banned in Commander if it starts warping the format. It is definitely in the right colours to warp the format (see Prophet of Kruphix). It is a very powerful effect to have in the command zone.
It's at least a little christmassy to expect that you have a deck that has all those cards in it but you haven't actually drawn any of them yet by the time you reach a point in the game that you could start the combo.
Commander games don't last forever.
Saying they will always be able to cast their Commander negates that you and 2 other people also have decks that I am assuming are doing things during all this and not just removing or disrupting this lady.
She is a creature so that opens the ways to disrupt her into every color under the sun, as well as the counterspells you mention as the only way to stop her????
Sorry I don't buy it, this creature is good for sure but people will adapt and then every so often She will explode but a lot of the time she will will run into something she can not overcome, very similar to PoK in that way but not nearly as good.
you do realize that every time you spend removal on a commander you're setting you one card back, right?
it's mostly irrelevant to kill commanders spending important cards when your opponent has the mana to recast it right away.
If I'm playing this card as my commander, my deck is certainly having a lot of 2 things....
1. mana dorks to be able to cast my big dudes without really needing the commander every time
2. haste enablers.
you kill it? alright, you've set yourself one card back, I cast the commander again, tap it, sac a dude... keep it rolling.
you have to successfully kill him more times than I'm able to pay 2 extra mana for him, or you essentially did nothing....
it's HARD to deal.
You are describing every Simic deck that has ever existed congratulations, they aren't that hard to overcome and this lady won't really be any different.
Exactly my first thought, as well.
Make a deck with her and Yisan and tutor up creatures all. day. long.
Birthing Pod is already a stick! This isn't Birthing Pod on a stick. If it were, using it would have the effect of casting Birthing Pod, which it definitely doesn't do.
Agree. Additionally, she gives you access to U which allows you to protect your precious tool box, and, she’s not on a specific pitch count.
Faces of the Past will be a mainstay. Deceiver Exarch/Pestermite will be there.
This is a very good card from the command zone, and will be just as good in the 99. I really think she will be problematic. I hope not, but it just hits a few criteria on the ban philosophy without even being out of the box.
Deceiver Exarch
Into
Breaching Hippocamp
Into
Sky Hussar
Then some 6 drop idk
Oh no, she's slightly worse than a card that was banned in EDH. How terrible. 25 cent rare. Total garbage.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I really hate it when people do that, but this is Orzhov at its best.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Any two drop ->
Village Bell-Ringer or Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite or Bounding Krasis - untaps her ->
Restoration Angel - untaps her ->
Karmic Guide - Resurrect Restoration Angel - Untap Van - Sac Restoration ->
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Copy Karmic Guide with kiki - Return Resto Angel to Play - Use Restoration to blink and untapped Kiki - then use the Kiki Jiki restoration angel loop to create infinite angels and win on the spot.
Somebody needs to build a shell for this.
The shell already exists, kiki-pod decks were a thing back in the day.
Karmic Guide isn't modern playable by the way.
T1 land, birds.
T2 land
T3 land, Vannifar
T4 (with counter mana available) pod away birds for scryb ranger, untap Vannifar, pod ranger for renegade rallier get back ranger untap Vannifar, pod ranger for exarch untap Vannifar, pod rallier for angel blink exarch untap Vannifar, pod angel for Kiki
You could even kill on turn 3 if you had something that could grant haste to vannifar that you could cast turn 2 like goblin motivator, I'm sure there's better options though.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
Only So many things you can do. Magic has been around for 25 years now.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
One turn. Without ramp or any other kind of support, Pod activates turn 4, and Vannifar comes down turn 4 and activates turn 5. As others in the thread have noted, she comes with a few other significant advantages. The fact that her activated ability does not cost mana, as well as her being a creature, make it much easier to chain multiple activations in a single turn than with pod.
Intruder Alarm is modern legal. Not sure what your end game would be besides crazy ETB triggers though.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I think it has more to do with WotC needing to maintain game balance instead of letting creativity fly and risk breaking the game. They need cards in regular products to be first and foremost Standard playable since that’s the major rotation, then Modern playable, then EDH i.e. fun and wacky.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Point conceded. I was holding two thoughts in my head - "Pod can activate the turn it enters" and "Pod can enter on turn three (two with ramp)" - without bearing in mind that each means the other isn't happening.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
It is really good in Commander... you can build your whole deck around it... not something you could do with Birthing Pod as one card in 99.
It is an elf, so easy to untap. It wins the game with Intruder Alarm. It is so easy to tutor an untap effect to use the ability over and over again in the same turn.
Ultimately, it will only be banned in Commander if it starts warping the format. It is definitely in the right colours to warp the format (see Prophet of Kruphix). It is a very powerful effect to have in the command zone.
When you compare it to Arcum Dagsson and Momir Vig, Simic Visionary, I think we can conclude that the card will not be banned.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Token > Quirion Ranger > Scryb Ranger > Deceiver Exarch > Breaching Hippocamp > Body Double
(copy exarch) > Greenwarden of Murasa (get back one ranger and cast it) > Protean Hulk (get other ranger when guardian dies and cast it) > Woodfall Primus (while the Hulk fetches Heritage Druid , Llanowar Elves , Trophy Mage, and Wirewood Symbiote, searching for Phyrexian Altar with the mage) > Wirewood symbiont bounces Quirion Ranger to untap speaker before using your last mana to recast it > Vannifar taps one last time to sac the Wirewood > Melira, Sylvok Outcast. Tap Llanowar Elves/Quirion Ranger/Heritage Druid to cast your phyrexian altar and promptly dominate with infinite land destruction/mana.
Assuming that none of those cards ended up in your hand, of course...