So much hyperbole, I'm literally laughing out loud here. They will not break into your house at night and rip your cards up. When did Rumor Mill become RudyLand?
It's just people too used to WotC paying attention to only them and are now jealous WotC has to split attention between them and the new demographic of consumers MTGA has opened the game up to. Sorta like a older sibling jealous of the attention the newer sibling gets, if you will.
Ironically it's because we keep exerting the "threat" of "When WotC fails we won't be there to save them anymore" WotC wants a new demographic of consumers so that they don't put all their eggs into the one basket that keeps threatening them because it was the only basket WotC had. It's quite sad to the point I can see it only reveals our own insecurities that we're outright lambasting new consumers to the game itself... and it's especially hypocritical since we often complain how WotC ignores the "spirit of the game" with their printing policies yet we condemn another medium and its newcomers that carries also said "spirit". Sure, somebody's going to point out the specifics of Arena (particularly being largely "Standard-Only") doesn't encompass the entire "spirit" of the game, but seriously, how new is Arena? Even established video gaming companies seem to have a trend to be unable put out polished (or completed, even) games in the market nowadays, and with WotC's general track record with technology, I'd say Arena's launch is generally pretty good already.
The one thing I'm actually sort of salty about is WotC's tendency to just revert back to pretty much the US/Japan markets... and it's ironic on them now when they announced a structure based on a online format... MTGA existing literally permits people to participate in the qualifiers-equivalent from the comfort of their homes but WotC still seems to have a paper-based mindset when it comes to creating entry points into their pro-circuits. I usually give WotC the benefit of the doubt because I inherently believe they are no fools, but the way this announcement came out it almost feels like they looked the glitzy finals of other major esports franchises and never really studied how flexible those franchises made the entry points so that everyone across the globe has more or less an equal chance for the glitz.
Seems likely, far cheaper to do digital than paper, especially when there's no way to actually cash out once you've put money into arena. Wizards are the only winners every time someone buys off there.
So like every other digital game. :]
I'm sure this is a 'feature' to Wizards, not a bug.
I think that says more about Wizards needing to adjust to competitive pressures than anything else.
I like this but imo tabletop tournaments should have a bit more than just 5mi. Maybe 6mi over 4mi to arena. I mean, you to prioritize the One that gave you more money over the years. If this will give arena a boost in gem sells then Maybe It is ok but don’t like the idea of this push
Fortunately I live in the eastern US and can aim for the starcity circuit. WOTC doesn't owe any of us paper card players anything. If you want to keep play going, I suggest you organize events yourself. A little entrepreneurial spirit is all it takes to keep tabletop competition thriving. Besides, modern is still a hugely popular format both in players and viewers, and arena has yet to support it.
So much hyperbole, I'm literally laughing out loud here. They will not break into your house at night and rip your cards up. When did Rumor Mill become RudyLand?
It's just people too used to WotC paying attention to only them and are now jealous WotC has to split attention between them and the new demographic of consumers MTGA has opened the game up to. Sorta like a older sibling jealous of the attention the newer sibling gets, if you will.
Ironically it's because we keep exerting the "threat" of "When WotC fails we won't be there to save them anymore" WotC wants a new demographic of consumers so that they don't put all their eggs into the one basket that keeps threatening them because it was the only basket WotC had. It's quite sad to the point I can see it only reveals our own insecurities that we're outright lambasting new consumers to the game itself... and it's especially hypocritical since we often complain how WotC ignores the "spirit of the game" with their printing policies yet we condemn another medium and its newcomers that carries also said "spirit". Sure, somebody's going to point out the specifics of Arena (particularly being largely "Standard-Only") doesn't encompass the entire "spirit" of the game, but seriously, how new is Arena? Even established video gaming companies seem to have a trend to be unable put out polished (or completed, even) games in the market nowadays, and with WotC's general track record with technology, I'd say Arena's launch is generally pretty good already.
The one thing I'm actually sort of salty about is WotC's tendency to just revert back to pretty much the US/Japan markets... and it's ironic on them now when they announced a structure based on a online format... MTGA existing literally permits people to participate in the qualifiers-equivalent from the comfort of their homes but WotC still seems to have a paper-based mindset when it comes to creating entry points into their pro-circuits. I usually give WotC the benefit of the doubt because I inherently believe they are no fools, but the way this announcement came out it almost feels like they looked the glitzy finals of other major esports franchises and never really studied how flexible those franchises made the entry points so that everyone across the globe has more or less an equal chance for the glitz.
Alternatively we don't think it is healthy for a company to hop on the "Me too" of Esports and Hearthstone, abandoning every other format in the game for the perpetual rotating one of Standard and only that which means that the entire game is going to be reliant upon that one format and when not if Standard goes back to ***** the entire game will collapse entirely.
We just got out of years of really awful standards between BFZ, SoI, Kaladesh and Amonkhet having massive problems, things like the Scarab God, Energy, Crazy Cat Lady, Unbalanced Vehicles, Terrible Mana bases. How long until that happens again? What happens when we get another Caw Blade Standard?
Alternatively we don't think it is healthy for a company to hop on the "Me too" of Esports and Hearthstone, abandoning every other format in the game for the perpetual rotating one of Standard and only that which means that the entire game is going to be reliant upon that one format and when not if Standard goes back to ***** the entire game will collapse entirely.
We just got out of years of really awful standards between BFZ, SoI, Kaladesh and Amonkhet having massive problems, things like the Scarab God, Energy, Crazy Cat Lady, Unbalanced Vehicles, Terrible Mana bases. How long until that happens again? What happens when we get another Caw Blade Standard?
I'll be straightforward, we have to agree to disagree. Firstly, at this point of the lifespan of both eSports and OCCGs I do not consider them to be short-lived fads anymore and therefore by extension I don't think WotC is simply jumping on a "Me Too" bandwagon. Secondly, all because they are expanding into a different demographic doesn't mean they're abandoning every other format in the game - sure Arena lacks all those features at the moment but until the actual substantial time has passed for me to observe what really happened, based on both WotC's tech track record and the current state of the video game industry, I simply do not expect tabletop MTG (and all its complications) to be perfectly coded into the likes of something like Arena within the first few years of launch.
I won't deny this first few years of Standard would be particularly critical for them in terms of Arena, but I can see their intended end-goal. If they succeed in making a few good years of Standard and develop a non-rotating format within that few years to retain re-playability of the rotated-out cards, they would achieve the perfect control lock over these new group of players. Past that point even if they screw up Standard somewhat, people become less inclined to outright quit because they cannot resell their cards, compared to TCG where every year there's always someone out there threatening to quit over something because the ability to sell off the cards for actual cash is still incentive to quit (and therefore threaten to quit).
At this point I fundamentally believe that paper-MTG is simply unhealthy from sheer old age to begin with and while it is true that part of the reason is WotC's inaccurate reprinting policies, it isn't the whole reason - it's actually mainly because the Secondary Market existing creates a situation where it's not a produce supply=demand equals to problem fixed scenario, because the free market nature of reselling cards means supply is not actually a factor 100% controlled by WotC to begin with and age amplifies the problem to the point of unpredictability. Throw in that we love to use "I'll sell my cards and leave the game" to make the guessing game even more unpredictable, I won't be surprised if WotC has considered that it would be healthier to take the risk on getting a new demographic (which due to its digital nature along with precedent examples is already an established solution that can prevent the same "Secondary Market out-sizing primary producer problem") than to not take the risk at all.
Tabletop MTG is ripe due for the inevitable crash (or "bubble burst") regardless of what WotC does now and bluntly speaking that crash would actually be good for the game in the even longer run, but at the same time it will no doubt cause harm to WotC financially and I daresay Arena is also a way WotC is intending to safeguard their overall financial reports so that they may even start considering causing the crash to begin with.
Arena's success will actually save paper in the long run, because when WotC feels safe having Arena supply stable profits, they will be way more willing to take the bold actions for paper we've always wanted them to take over the years. Am I being too optimistic here (oddly enough considering how jaded I usually am)? Maybe. But I know for sure they will not "save" paper magic right now because the methods will undoubtedly cause a scar on their financials and Arena is not at the stage where it can save as contingency, but I would also call it a stretch to assume they will abandon us outright either.
To use the sibling analogy again, the younger baby sibling we just got is an undeniable fact now. We are the older sibling and while we are also sick (unhealthy) we also have a better immune system than other younger sibling (the way paper MTG and the market works WotC could actually literally really abandon us for about a year and we would not completely fall). Our parents (WotC) are showering more attention (marketing) on the newborn sibling and at this point it almost feels like we cursing our younger sibling to just die by saying "If little sibling here dies I won't shed tears for my parents" and well if this was a literal case we would be appalled at the older sibling, but in the same vein I feel like this reflects the toxicity of the playerbase instead (since we're not actually one entity). I choose to think that we should let our baby sibling grow up healthily in the next few years so our parents know they won't have to pay as much attention to them in the future and will therefore pay attention to us.
Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro could've gone about saving Paper Magic by turning it into an LCG (Living Card Game) making it backwards compatible with it's TCG / CCG (Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game) counterpart which almost confirms peoples' suspicions on Hasbro selling Wizards of the Coast in 2021 but to Fantasy Flight Games. If Fantasy Flight Games ends up buying out Wizards of the Coast then they could reneg the Reserve List without fear of promissory estoppel If they also manage to acquire the Magic: The Gathering IP from them. Magic Arena would still be around without Hasbro supporting Wizards of the Coast since they'd probably moved on to other IP's to support themselves such as My Little Pony and Monopoly.
I'm not sure as to whether Paper Magic transitioning itself toward a fixed distribution model will help solve it's ongoing problems. While it's theoretically meant to help draw in new players without requiring a disposable income it's still required to obtain the old cards in order for it to be backwards compatible with an LCG version of Paper Magic. The only real way to solve that problem is by reprinting cards into oblivion until they lose all Secondary Market value to where the old cards are pre-packaged in the box it comes in or however expansion sets work in LCG's. Either Magic Arena is forced to adapt to the new distribution model while maintaining the competitive aspect or it remains completely separate from Paper Magic altogether.
They could still eliminate the "pay to win" aspect of Magic while at the same time even the playing field for everyone however that would defeat the purpose of competitive events especially for Magic Arena where it's sole purpose is literally "pay to win". Living Card Games seemed to fix the issue with "pay to win" for IP's such as the Call Of Cthulhu LCG as well as ShadowFist. When Upper Deck brought Vs. System back as an LCG they made it so that it wasn't backwards compatible with it's TCG / CCG counterpart because they didn't want to go through the hassle of allowing players to have a financial advantage against their opponents when the problem could've been solved through direct TCG / CCG reprints in the LCG.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Does Fantasy Flight have enough money to do that? Also seems weird Hasbro would invest in Arena only to sell granted if Arena fails selling might make sense.
Does Fantasy Flight have enough money to do that? Also seems weird Hasbro would invest in Arena only to sell granted if Arena fails selling might make sense.
Hasbro probably already sees Magic Arena failing for Wizards of the Coast which could explain why they're looking to cut ties with them with Fantasy Flight Games being a potential buyer of Wizards of the Coast. Fantasy Flight Games probably doesn't have near as much revenue as Hasbro let alone Square Enix which explains why Organized Play support for Final Fantasy TCG is the highest for any Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game to date despite low demand from a gaming market that's too crowded for it's own good.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Yeah I only play paper magic and commander/ occasional brawl. I don’t do standard or modern. If they phase out paper (IF since they haven’t said anything but SEEM to do going toward this direction) I’m out and I’ll make sure I sell before it all happens. I feel getting rid of paper destroys the novelty of the game. Also what happens to LGS. Without paper magic, they won’t really profit unless they have other card games (Yu-go-oh, vanguard etc.)
Bottom line: short run I think we may see limitations and more for digital. Like we won’t get as many “paper sets” as digital set. I wouldn’t surprised if we got a “digital exclusive” mtg set next year. I don’t think wizards cares about local game stores as long as they profit. I’ve also seen other good points in this forum about selling cards in digital vs paper.
Long run: yeah I can see paper magic being phased out. Everything seems to be changing for digital in today’s world so I can see this changing too. It won’t kill the game for paper (as long as someone has a deck people will stay play). I just doubt anymore paper sets will be released so the card base won’t be “fresh” anymore.
It feels like they are bifurcating the game. Probably pushing competitive to Arena, and leave casual to paper. Competitive needs all the "best" cards so they want to push that to the market which they control, casual is ok with predefined product (commander, dual decks, guild kits, etc...).
Being a player with no asperations of "Going Pro" I don't really care about this, other than the fact that this will put pressure on the local stores where I like to draft and play a couple times a month. It's going to push all the people that are trying to be one of the 32 to stay home and play on arena, and who is going to be buying singles to make their standard deck if paper is pretty much the casual format now, so it will force the store to charge more for the drafts and other product to make up for the loss of volume.
All speculative at this point, as who really knows how this will shake out but it does feel like paper will take a hit. But I don't think it will die as I think paper creates more long term "stickyness" to the game than digital does.
Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro could've gone about saving Paper Magic by turning it into an LCG (Living Card Game) making it backwards compatible with it's TCG / CCG (Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game) counterpart which almost confirms peoples' suspicions on Hasbro selling Wizards of the Coast in 2021 but to Fantasy Flight Games. If Fantasy Flight Games ends up buying out Wizards of the Coast then they could reneg the Reserve List without fear of promissory estoppel If they also manage to acquire the Magic: The Gathering IP from them. Magic Arena would still be around without Hasbro supporting Wizards of the Coast since they'd probably moved on to other IP's to support themselves such as My Little Pony and Monopoly.
At this point promissory estoppel isn't even the issue with the reserved list. That the secondary market even exists is a huge problem for WotC, because as soon as they acknowledge that packs have cards of varying values and some cards are inherently worth more than others, wizards stops selling packs and start selling lootboxes - which several states have deemed as illegal underage gambling schemes, thereby restricting the game to adults. Changing owners wouldn't remove this issue.
Hasbro probably already sees Magic Arena failing for Wizards of the Coast which could explain why they're looking to cut ties with them with Fantasy Flight Games being a potential buyer of Wizards of the Coast. Fantasy Flight Games probably doesn't have near as much revenue as Hasbro let alone Square Enix which explains why Organized Play support for Final Fantasy TCG is the highest for any Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game to date despite low demand from a gaming market that's too crowded for it's own good.
In each of its past three 10-K filings with the SEC, Hasbro has acknowledged that Wizards is one of their highest grossing subsidiaries, oftentimes covering shortfalls from other departments to boost the toy and gaming sector overall. WotC is a golden goose and Hasbro would be asinine to sell them unless they know something huge that they're keeping away from everyone, their own investors included.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
At this point promissory estoppel isn't even the issue with the reserved list. That the secondary market even exists is a huge problem for WotC, because as soon as they acknowledge that packs have cards of varying values and some cards are inherently worth more than others, wizards stops selling packs and start selling lootboxes - which several states have deemed as illegal underage gambling schemes, thereby restricting the game to adults. Changing owners wouldn't remove this issue.
Another way for Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro to change their distribution model from selling booster packs to loot boxes (which is already under investigation by the Federal Trade Commission) would be to finally cave in to Chinese counterfeiters by reneging the Reserve List but they won't do it because they'd rather keep a 22 year promise to collectors while pushing for digital with Magic Arena to "solve" the counterfeit issue than to spend $5 million from the new Magic Pro League prize pool to improve card stock quality for Paper Magic. Why invest in digital assets you don't actually own? Simple. So that competitive players can get away with cheating online rather than sit across the table from their opponents through live streaming events.
In each of its past three 10-K filings with the SEC, Hasbro has acknowledged that Wizards is one of their highest grossing subsidiaries, oftentimes covering shortfalls from other departments to boost the toy and gaming sector overall. WotC is a golden goose and Hasbro would be asinine to sell them unless they know something huge that they're keeping away from everyone, their own investors included.
They probably see digital as the only option available for them so they're keeping a tight lid on it in order to avoid the risk of losing money they need to sell the company If that's the route they're heading toward. They don't want to make the same mistake they made with MTGO where they lost millions of investors to Magic Arena so they're taking advantage of people who play Paper Magic with cash grab Masters sets and Commander Precons to reach their goal without the public finding out about it. Companies behind discontinued Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games have been getting away with this type of shady business practice for years.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Not to mention MTGA is more environmentally friendly... I'm sure WotC is counting this as a win.
Well it does solve paper quality complaints that is for sure.
Not really since all it does is enforce the idea that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is incompetent and lazy when it comes to paper quality in Magic. Their bread and butter is in Tabletop Gaming not the Video Game Industry. It's just that the company hires employees who get paid to do nothing but play Magic rather than actually playtest for future products they're designing instead of hiring people with no past experience of the game itself. They can't just solely rely on tournament data alone when it comes to what cards they ban or restrict in said formats.
The reason why they've gotten away with this is due to the nature of the game shifting from competitive to casual which gives them less incentive to playtest cards designed for future products even though it's a poor excuse not to. It's why they haven't put any effort into Standard legal sets until recently though I think it's got more to do with the source material they have to work with than anything else. Needless to say we got lucky returning to Dominaria and now Ravnica again for inspiration. Instead of returning to old planes they need more creative thinking on new planes within the game's lore.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Hasbro probably already sees Magic Arena failing for Wizards of the Coast which could explain why they're looking to cut ties with them with Fantasy Flight Games being a potential buyer of Wizards of the Coast. Fantasy Flight Games probably doesn't have near as much revenue as Hasbro let alone Square Enix which explains why Organized Play support for Final Fantasy TCG is the highest for any Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game to date despite low demand from a gaming market that's too crowded for it's own good.
In each of its past three 10-K filings with the SEC, Hasbro has acknowledged that Wizards is one of their highest grossing subsidiaries, oftentimes covering shortfalls from other departments to boost the toy and gaming sector overall. WotC is a golden goose and Hasbro would be asinine to sell them unless they know something huge that they're keeping away from everyone, their own investors included.
Another way for Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro to change their distribution model from selling booster packs to loot boxes (which is already under investigation by the Federal Trade Commission) would be to finally cave in to Chinese counterfeiters by reneging the Reserve List but they won't do it because they'd rather keep a 22 year promise to collectors while pushing for digital with Magic Arena to "solve" the counterfeit issue than to spend $5 million from the new Magic Pro League prize pool to improve card stock quality for Paper Magic. Why invest in digital assets you don't actually own? Simple. So that competitive players can get away with cheating online rather than sit across the table from their opponents through live streaming events.
Trying to abolish the Reserved List means you have to acknowledge the secondary market exists, and the rest falls into place as Wizards has to tantamount admit to have been running a gambling scheme directly advertised at an underage target market. That's why they aren't allowed to talk about the reserved list (and why they can't talk ab out why they can't talk about it) - because doing so would fundamentally undermine their legal capacity to continue selling cards to people under 18. I'll also remind you that two European countries (Germany and Austria) can't have high-level Magic events held there because their governments have ruled that MtG is a form of gambling.
They probably see digital as the only option available for them so they're keeping a tight lid on it in order to avoid the risk of losing money they need to sell the company If that's the route they're heading toward. They don't want to make the same mistake they made with MTGO where they lost millions of investors to Magic Arena so they're taking advantage of people who play Paper Magic with cash grab Masters sets and Commander Precons to reach their goal without the public finding out about it. Companies behind discontinued Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games have been getting away with this type of shady business practice for years.
Shady business practices of small startups is one thing. Shady business practices of the single biggest toy and gaming company in the world is quite another. If they're deliberately covering this up and things break loose, most of the $10.5 billion in hasbro stock will evaporate. There's not enough money in a post-Enron world for Hasbro to do something that dumb.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Trying to abolish the Reserved List means you have to acknowledge the secondary market exists, and the rest falls into place as Wizards has to tantamount admit to have been running a gambling scheme directly advertised at an underage target market. That's why they aren't allowed to talk about the reserved list (and why they can't talk ab out why they can't talk about it) - because doing so would fundamentally undermine their legal capacity to continue selling cards to people under 18. I'll also remind you that two European countries (Germany and Austria) can't have high-level Magic events held there because their governments have ruled that MtG is a form of gambling.
Counterfeits are already flooding the Secondary Market yet Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro chooses not to do anything about it because they feel that Magic Arena will make up for it as less people pay into Paper Magic. I think that's a hard sell for EDH / Commander players who want real cards in their decks instead of fakes and proxies that pass the jeweler's loop and LED light tests.
Local Game Stores don't want to deal with it because it's too time consuming to sort them all out given the amount of orders and buylists they receive on a daily basis. So in a way the Reserve List has created a black market for these counterfeits to exist even though the majority of them consist of popular cards in Modern and Legacy but only because Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is in bed with Channel Fireball and Star City Games.
Private Mod Note
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
This will at least make me want to play Arena to get my competitive itch, but it is a shame that it's only Standard. Only one format does not make things all that interesting.
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It's just people too used to WotC paying attention to only them and are now jealous WotC has to split attention between them and the new demographic of consumers MTGA has opened the game up to. Sorta like a older sibling jealous of the attention the newer sibling gets, if you will.
Ironically it's because we keep exerting the "threat" of "When WotC fails we won't be there to save them anymore" WotC wants a new demographic of consumers so that they don't put all their eggs into the one basket that keeps threatening them because it was the only basket WotC had. It's quite sad to the point I can see it only reveals our own insecurities that we're outright lambasting new consumers to the game itself... and it's especially hypocritical since we often complain how WotC ignores the "spirit of the game" with their printing policies yet we condemn another medium and its newcomers that carries also said "spirit". Sure, somebody's going to point out the specifics of Arena (particularly being largely "Standard-Only") doesn't encompass the entire "spirit" of the game, but seriously, how new is Arena? Even established video gaming companies seem to have a trend to be unable put out polished (or completed, even) games in the market nowadays, and with WotC's general track record with technology, I'd say Arena's launch is generally pretty good already.
The one thing I'm actually sort of salty about is WotC's tendency to just revert back to pretty much the US/Japan markets... and it's ironic on them now when they announced a structure based on a online format... MTGA existing literally permits people to participate in the qualifiers-equivalent from the comfort of their homes but WotC still seems to have a paper-based mindset when it comes to creating entry points into their pro-circuits. I usually give WotC the benefit of the doubt because I inherently believe they are no fools, but the way this announcement came out it almost feels like they looked the glitzy finals of other major esports franchises and never really studied how flexible those franchises made the entry points so that everyone across the globe has more or less an equal chance for the glitz.
I think that says more about Wizards needing to adjust to competitive pressures than anything else.
Basically, the exact opposite of the Mythic Champsionships which will be:
Alternatively we don't think it is healthy for a company to hop on the "Me too" of Esports and Hearthstone, abandoning every other format in the game for the perpetual rotating one of Standard and only that which means that the entire game is going to be reliant upon that one format and when not if Standard goes back to ***** the entire game will collapse entirely.
We just got out of years of really awful standards between BFZ, SoI, Kaladesh and Amonkhet having massive problems, things like the Scarab God, Energy, Crazy Cat Lady, Unbalanced Vehicles, Terrible Mana bases. How long until that happens again? What happens when we get another Caw Blade Standard?
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I like the cringe on this: Everyone will know
I'll be straightforward, we have to agree to disagree. Firstly, at this point of the lifespan of both eSports and OCCGs I do not consider them to be short-lived fads anymore and therefore by extension I don't think WotC is simply jumping on a "Me Too" bandwagon. Secondly, all because they are expanding into a different demographic doesn't mean they're abandoning every other format in the game - sure Arena lacks all those features at the moment but until the actual substantial time has passed for me to observe what really happened, based on both WotC's tech track record and the current state of the video game industry, I simply do not expect tabletop MTG (and all its complications) to be perfectly coded into the likes of something like Arena within the first few years of launch.
I won't deny this first few years of Standard would be particularly critical for them in terms of Arena, but I can see their intended end-goal. If they succeed in making a few good years of Standard and develop a non-rotating format within that few years to retain re-playability of the rotated-out cards, they would achieve the perfect control lock over these new group of players. Past that point even if they screw up Standard somewhat, people become less inclined to outright quit because they cannot resell their cards, compared to TCG where every year there's always someone out there threatening to quit over something because the ability to sell off the cards for actual cash is still incentive to quit (and therefore threaten to quit).
At this point I fundamentally believe that paper-MTG is simply unhealthy from sheer old age to begin with and while it is true that part of the reason is WotC's inaccurate reprinting policies, it isn't the whole reason - it's actually mainly because the Secondary Market existing creates a situation where it's not a produce supply=demand equals to problem fixed scenario, because the free market nature of reselling cards means supply is not actually a factor 100% controlled by WotC to begin with and age amplifies the problem to the point of unpredictability. Throw in that we love to use "I'll sell my cards and leave the game" to make the guessing game even more unpredictable, I won't be surprised if WotC has considered that it would be healthier to take the risk on getting a new demographic (which due to its digital nature along with precedent examples is already an established solution that can prevent the same "Secondary Market out-sizing primary producer problem") than to not take the risk at all.
Tabletop MTG is ripe due for the inevitable crash (or "bubble burst") regardless of what WotC does now and bluntly speaking that crash would actually be good for the game in the even longer run, but at the same time it will no doubt cause harm to WotC financially and I daresay Arena is also a way WotC is intending to safeguard their overall financial reports so that they may even start considering causing the crash to begin with.
Arena's success will actually save paper in the long run, because when WotC feels safe having Arena supply stable profits, they will be way more willing to take the bold actions for paper we've always wanted them to take over the years. Am I being too optimistic here (oddly enough considering how jaded I usually am)? Maybe. But I know for sure they will not "save" paper magic right now because the methods will undoubtedly cause a scar on their financials and Arena is not at the stage where it can save as contingency, but I would also call it a stretch to assume they will abandon us outright either.
To use the sibling analogy again, the younger baby sibling we just got is an undeniable fact now. We are the older sibling and while we are also sick (unhealthy) we also have a better immune system than other younger sibling (the way paper MTG and the market works WotC could actually literally really abandon us for about a year and we would not completely fall). Our parents (WotC) are showering more attention (marketing) on the newborn sibling and at this point it almost feels like we cursing our younger sibling to just die by saying "If little sibling here dies I won't shed tears for my parents" and well if this was a literal case we would be appalled at the older sibling, but in the same vein I feel like this reflects the toxicity of the playerbase instead (since we're not actually one entity). I choose to think that we should let our baby sibling grow up healthily in the next few years so our parents know they won't have to pay as much attention to them in the future and will therefore pay attention to us.
I'm not sure as to whether Paper Magic transitioning itself toward a fixed distribution model will help solve it's ongoing problems. While it's theoretically meant to help draw in new players without requiring a disposable income it's still required to obtain the old cards in order for it to be backwards compatible with an LCG version of Paper Magic. The only real way to solve that problem is by reprinting cards into oblivion until they lose all Secondary Market value to where the old cards are pre-packaged in the box it comes in or however expansion sets work in LCG's. Either Magic Arena is forced to adapt to the new distribution model while maintaining the competitive aspect or it remains completely separate from Paper Magic altogether.
They could still eliminate the "pay to win" aspect of Magic while at the same time even the playing field for everyone however that would defeat the purpose of competitive events especially for Magic Arena where it's sole purpose is literally "pay to win". Living Card Games seemed to fix the issue with "pay to win" for IP's such as the Call Of Cthulhu LCG as well as ShadowFist. When Upper Deck brought Vs. System back as an LCG they made it so that it wasn't backwards compatible with it's TCG / CCG counterpart because they didn't want to go through the hassle of allowing players to have a financial advantage against their opponents when the problem could've been solved through direct TCG / CCG reprints in the LCG.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Bottom line: short run I think we may see limitations and more for digital. Like we won’t get as many “paper sets” as digital set. I wouldn’t surprised if we got a “digital exclusive” mtg set next year. I don’t think wizards cares about local game stores as long as they profit. I’ve also seen other good points in this forum about selling cards in digital vs paper.
Long run: yeah I can see paper magic being phased out. Everything seems to be changing for digital in today’s world so I can see this changing too. It won’t kill the game for paper (as long as someone has a deck people will stay play). I just doubt anymore paper sets will be released so the card base won’t be “fresh” anymore.
Being a player with no asperations of "Going Pro" I don't really care about this, other than the fact that this will put pressure on the local stores where I like to draft and play a couple times a month. It's going to push all the people that are trying to be one of the 32 to stay home and play on arena, and who is going to be buying singles to make their standard deck if paper is pretty much the casual format now, so it will force the store to charge more for the drafts and other product to make up for the loss of volume.
All speculative at this point, as who really knows how this will shake out but it does feel like paper will take a hit. But I don't think it will die as I think paper creates more long term "stickyness" to the game than digital does.
At this point promissory estoppel isn't even the issue with the reserved list. That the secondary market even exists is a huge problem for WotC, because as soon as they acknowledge that packs have cards of varying values and some cards are inherently worth more than others, wizards stops selling packs and start selling lootboxes - which several states have deemed as illegal underage gambling schemes, thereby restricting the game to adults. Changing owners wouldn't remove this issue.
In each of its past three 10-K filings with the SEC, Hasbro has acknowledged that Wizards is one of their highest grossing subsidiaries, oftentimes covering shortfalls from other departments to boost the toy and gaming sector overall. WotC is a golden goose and Hasbro would be asinine to sell them unless they know something huge that they're keeping away from everyone, their own investors included.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
And people who think Fantasy "milk the audience for all its worth" Flight is going to be better than Hasbro are absolutely deluding themselves.
They probably see digital as the only option available for them so they're keeping a tight lid on it in order to avoid the risk of losing money they need to sell the company If that's the route they're heading toward. They don't want to make the same mistake they made with MTGO where they lost millions of investors to Magic Arena so they're taking advantage of people who play Paper Magic with cash grab Masters sets and Commander Precons to reach their goal without the public finding out about it. Companies behind discontinued Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games have been getting away with this type of shady business practice for years.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Well it does solve paper quality complaints that is for sure.
The reason why they've gotten away with this is due to the nature of the game shifting from competitive to casual which gives them less incentive to playtest cards designed for future products even though it's a poor excuse not to. It's why they haven't put any effort into Standard legal sets until recently though I think it's got more to do with the source material they have to work with than anything else. Needless to say we got lucky returning to Dominaria and now Ravnica again for inspiration. Instead of returning to old planes they need more creative thinking on new planes within the game's lore.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
What's really funny to me is that after a quick check on the "rumor" a thread over at enworld has Morrus saying It's not a rumour. It's one guy trying to start a rumour. along with the other info in that thread. Then there's this post in which they poster out right states he owns stock and it's doing very well etc and the so called rumor is almost a year old.
Trying to abolish the Reserved List means you have to acknowledge the secondary market exists, and the rest falls into place as Wizards has to tantamount admit to have been running a gambling scheme directly advertised at an underage target market. That's why they aren't allowed to talk about the reserved list (and why they can't talk ab out why they can't talk about it) - because doing so would fundamentally undermine their legal capacity to continue selling cards to people under 18. I'll also remind you that two European countries (Germany and Austria) can't have high-level Magic events held there because their governments have ruled that MtG is a form of gambling.
Shady business practices of small startups is one thing. Shady business practices of the single biggest toy and gaming company in the world is quite another. If they're deliberately covering this up and things break loose, most of the $10.5 billion in hasbro stock will evaporate. There's not enough money in a post-Enron world for Hasbro to do something that dumb.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Local Game Stores don't want to deal with it because it's too time consuming to sort them all out given the amount of orders and buylists they receive on a daily basis. So in a way the Reserve List has created a black market for these counterfeits to exist even though the majority of them consist of popular cards in Modern and Legacy but only because Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is in bed with Channel Fireball and Star City Games.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta