I am patiently waiting to see justifications for rarity shifts ''bbbut it's for sealed play" in a product which costs 50 bucks to draft.
I'm just curious which rarity shifts you're talking about because if it's reanimate who in their right mind would think that was going to be an uncommon?
I would be so happy if Oubliette was reprinted in this set for Pauper reasons, to be a little less expensive than it is now. I don't think it would be bad in a Limited environment even at common, but due to "scarcity" I can see them upshifting it just because.
I am patiently waiting to see justifications for rarity shifts ''bbbut it's for sealed play" in a product which costs 50 bucks to draft.
I'm just curious which rarity shifts you're talking about because if it's reanimate who in their right mind would think that was going to be an uncommon?
I don't think that even reanimate as an uncommon wouldn't been backbreaking if reanimation strategies were not too strong in limited. Nevertheless I am talking about potential unspoiled rarity changes which i am sure will happen, as in every other masters set.
I don't think that even reanimate as an uncommon wouldn't been backbreaking if reanimation strategies were not too strong in limited.
You don´t think "B: get the best creature from any graveyard directly into play, lose some life" would be too good for uncommon? I have to disagree. Limited is all about creatures, Reanimate doesn´t require you to do anything reanimation related with your deck. You could target a Grizzly Bears with it and it would still be passable.
I absolutely think that they should print more good and valuable stuff at uncommon, and at $14 a booster I would rather they give us good value at every rarity than try to build a perfect limited format... wait, what am I arguing here again? Oh yeah, Reanimate at uncommon would be completely busted in limited. I think you are wrong that it would not be to strong. But at $14, I don´t even care. Screw the limited format, I´d rather have some crazy stuff happen than pay 35-45 bucks and risk opening $7 of value. It´s not like anyone will do 10+ drafts with this anyway
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I would be so happy if Oubliette was reprinted in this set for Pauper reasons, to be a little less expensive than it is now. I don't think it would be bad in a Limited environment even at common, but due to "scarcity" I can see them upshifting it just because.
I'm not sure. Oubliette currently cost 17 dollars for played condition; or more (29 to 50 dollars) if your looking for perfect condition. Historically (and if you look at the past on wizards reprints), they would upgrade the rarity to a uncommon or a rare. This has nothing to do with drafting, this is because wizards don't want to hurt the secondary market. If that's the case, I would believe the reprint could remove Oubliette from pauper format.
I would be so happy if Oubliette was reprinted in this set for Pauper reasons, to be a little less expensive than it is now. I don't think it would be bad in a Limited environment even at common, but due to "scarcity" I can see them upshifting it just because.
I'm not sure. Oubliette currently cost 17 dollars for played condition; or more (29 to 50 dollars) if your looking for perfect condition. Historically (and if you look at the past on wizards reprints), they would upgrade the rarity to a uncommon or a rare. This has nothing to do with drafting, this is because wizards don't want to hurt the secondary market. If that's the case, I would believe the reprint could remove Oubliette from pauper format.
reprints doesn't remove legality from pauper, lighning bolt is still legal even if it was reprinted as UC various times.
a reprint for oubliette would greatly help pauper player to aquire it and the value of the original arabian nights ones would not be hurt a lot, I think a UC reprint can be still considered fair
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"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again"
They already broke the game in terms of it being collectable. The commons and uncommons have been reprinted to such insane levels vs demand that only rares really count as collectible in the classic sense.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Seeing people complain about this on Facebook is so annoying. Go play Yugioh. You'll get hammered into oblivion just trying and Konami will spit in your face for it. No one is obligated to buy this product. It's only a plus to have these cards available to those who can and will, rather than not. Because if we didn't have some promise of reprints, some addition to the card pool, then the secondary market will run wild with its prices. And at that point, who does everyone blame? Never the hoarders or scalpers, it'll be WOTC fault for not reprinting more. And if the reprints are too accessible? Their fault again for not honoring MTG as a collector's game. It's hilarious to me that the complaints are that these reprints may not lower the price of the secondary market cards - MAY NOT, neglecting the fact it's a valid possibility it may - and neglecting the fact those secondary market prices are the fault of the losers who establish them because MTG isn't a game, but an investment to them.
An investment.
Laughable.
I am confused. You defend Wotc and at the same time complain about the hoarders and investors, while the main complaint of people who criticize Wotc for this set is exactly that it doesn't do enough to lower the prices. I'm not really sure what your point is when you say players should blame investors instead of Wotc for the market prices either. Wotc are the only ones with the power to stop such behaviour, and they have repeatedly failed to do so. I'm not going to flame people on the forums for abusing a system, I am going to blame the company that can change the system but doesn't.
I am also confused by people who still think this set might reduce the prices on staples. It won't. We have been in this exact situation before, with every other masters set since MM2. What is going to happen is that 2-3 months after release all the highly sought after cards will fall in price a little, let's say 20%, and then start creeping back up. Niche cards played in tier 2 decks will be the only ones that will experience a significant price decrease. Bonus points if this will be their first reprint, like Goryo's Vengeance. This will make the set even more of a lottery, as certain cards that look OK in value right now will crumble after release. So if you are one of those people who just wanted to pick up an expensive staple right now then you will like this set, since you will get a little discount in 2 months (instead of 300€ for a playset of Lilianas you will only pay 250€, what a steal!). But if you are one of those people hoping for a widespread reduction in prices of expensive staples, then you will be dissapointed.
Didn't Mana Drain drop from $200 to $60 and Azusa from $35 to $16? And those are just two cards. The prices decrease, even if it's only transient. They just don't crash outright.
If you want to blame WOTC for something, blame their reprint choices. If this set features more Trees and trash, be my guest.
I'm not buying a single pack, because I can't afford it. But I'm not interested in complaining about it either.
They really should put Rhystic Study, Propaganda, Leyline, Asceticism, etc. in this.
Didn't Mana Drain drop from $200 to $60 and Azusa from $35 to $16? And those are just two cards. The prices decrease, even if it's only transient. They just don't crash outright.
The interesting thing about Mana Drain, is that the original printing didn't move much, if at all. It's just that the new card was worth $50-$60. Why this is interesting is because the printing of Drain, doesn't actually do anything for the people that want it. In the 93/94 format, you must have a card with the original artwork and old frame, so any modern reprinting does nothing to help offset that demand. The only other two formats that play the card are Vintage and EDH, and Mana Drain in Vintage is not seeing the play it once did, add in that EDH players only want one copy; you just don't have much demand for it. Because of all of this, you still have $200 Legends Drains, but also have a $60 version.
This is a distinctly different situation when compared to something like Tarmogoyf, as any printing of the card is basically the Future Shifted printing (since you can play any version, in any format it's legal in), so all Tarmogoyf cards generally command the same price.
Are we really thinking "the 93/94 format" is a prominent factor in card valuation, and not just simple aesthetic/collectible first-edition preference? In the comic book world, a first edition is worth stratospherically more than a second edition simply by virtue of being the first edition. I would expect the same was at play here.
a first edition is worth stratospherically more than a second edition simply by virtue of being the first edition.
I agree with you, and think this will lead to the eventual abolishment of the reserved list.
Either way, I doubt the volume of this printing is enough to offset current card prices by the amounts the average player should want. Currently, if one wants prices to stay high as an elitism thing, then this is the right game for you. I sincerely hope Wizards, Hasbro, and the business-side powers-that-be prove this to be false, and make the game more accessible by crashing the secondary card market.
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Latest proof this forum is a trashfire:
Your authoritarianism will be the reason the company suffers another 60M in losses.
Are we really thinking "the 93/94 format" is a prominent factor in card valuation, and not just simple aesthetic/collectible first-edition preference? In the comic book world, a first edition is worth stratospherically more than a second edition simply by virtue of being the first edition. I would expect the same was at play here.
People do have preference for the original versions, however 93/94 contributes significantly to that. Look at cards like Erhnam Djinn, it sees play in Erhnamgeddon builds and the AN version commands a considerable premium over other printings.
Also, consider the case of Lord of Atlantis, it sees virtually zero play in 93/94, but it's popular in modern day merfolk builds (Legacy & Modern) and it's original two printings in Alpha and Beta can be had for around $200-$300. However, a card like Serra Angel, that sees no real play besides the 93/94 format costs around $400. The kicker is Serra is an Uncommon, while Lord of Atlantis is a Rare. If Lord of Atlantis was played in 93/94, we would see pricing on it like Savannah Lions, another Alpha/Beta rare. The difference between the two is that Lions sees a good bit of play in 93/94 and because of that costs $500+. And I don't think anyone would argue that Savannah Lions is anymore iconic than Lord of Atlantis.
People do have preference for the original versions, however 93/94 contributes significantly to that. Look at cards like Erhnam Djinn, it sees play in Erhnamgeddon builds and the AN version commands a considerable premium over other printings.
Also, consider the case of Lord of Atlantis, it sees virtually zero play in 93/94, but it's popular in modern day merfolk builds (Legacy & Modern) and it's original two printings in Alpha and Beta can be had for around $200-$300. However, a card like Serra Angel, that sees no real play besides the 93/94 format costs around $400. The kicker is Serra is an Uncommon, while Lord of Atlantis is a Rare. If Lord of Atlantis was played in 93/94, we would see pricing on it like Savannah Lions, another Alpha/Beta rare. The difference between the two is that Lions sees a good bit of play in 93/94 and because of that costs $500+. And I don't think anyone would argue that Savannah Lions is anymore iconic than Lord of Atlantis.
Alpha/Beta cards are collectors items and priced heavily by nostalgia and collectors value.
Historic significant cards like Serra Angel will have a much higher cost, simply for its nostalgia value and that dips deep into the cards price.
Duals are historic, special, ultra premium cards, that in addition to all that are also highly playable. You really cannot top all the points that such cards cover, they have it all, they are needed by literally any player, no matter what, everyone wants them, everyone likes them, and you dont want to trade them away as they just keep getting more and more expensive.
They are the biggest magic has in stock market GOLD its as save as it gets and you really cannot ever have enough dual lands around the place you sleep ever.
Well, I mean, they COULD consider not basing the MSRP on the secondary market value of the reprints, and just not make it a limited print-run product. That'd be another way to not have an insane MSRP.
As for stores, well, they know this:
Product got announced this week.
Product releases in December.
Product has a ridiculous MSRP.
I know my store's management is just absolutely confused/irritated by this product and doesn't know how much or even if they should order any. It likely won't sit, but it's not going to be flying off the shelves, either. Stores have to order this basically now, based on knowing nothing but the Box-Topper cards, and that it has a ridiculously higher MSRP just in time for the Christmas shopping season.
It's not that there was a cheaper alternative of setting the MSRP based on the total Expected Value of these reprints when they didn't have much of a choice to begin with. Rudy from Alpha Investments made a recent argument saying that given the reprint choices made for Ultimate Masters, the MSRP should be much higher than what Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is already charging for it. Local game stores are most likely going to be forced to sell this product at $200 MSRP instead of $300-400+ in order to break even (which might be illegal for them to do), sell the individual cards as singles, or distribute the set solely through booster packs since they're cheaper than the actual box altogether.
There's a good chance you're not going to make your money back on a $14 booster pack compared to a $300-400 box unless you're guaranteed a mythic which should have enough market value to pay for the pack itself. Even then you wouldn't be able to get the box topper unless you pay the $300-400 MSRP or whatever your LGS is charging for theirs so you'd be much better off purchasing singles and packs from Ultimate Masters. I'm not even sure If distributing Ultimate Masters as a non-limited print run would help reduce the MSRP of the set given the Secondary Market value of these reprints. We still don't know what this set has in store as far as uncommons and commons go aside from Eternal Witness and Kitchen Finks.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
FYI: the box topper packs are searchable, there's a video on youtube about it.
It has been pretty well spread about at this point. They also are not a good buy because wotc did not ship these with the care needed, so there is a good chance the card may be damaged.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
FYI: the box topper packs are searchable, there's a video on youtube about it.
It has been pretty well spread about at this point. They also are not a good buy because wotc did not ship these with the care needed, so there is a good chance the card may be damaged.
PSA: You can send damaged cards back to wizards and they will replace it for you. But you have to also send the packaging. More info here.
Alpha/Beta cards are collectors items and priced heavily by nostalgia and collectors value.
Historic significant cards like Serra Angel will have a much higher cost, simply for its nostalgia value and that dips deep into the cards price.
Right, AB cards are in high demand because of nostalgia and the fact that all other printings of many of the cards in AB were in white boarder. However, the price disparity between many of the cards, at the same or lower rarity, is because of 93/94. If you consider cards that are iconic, like Lord of the Pit, Nightmare, Force of Nature, and Demonic Hordes, you will see that their pricing is around $200-$300. Just like my example of Lord of Atlantis from above, these cards are almost nonexistent in 93/94, yet cards like Jayemdae Tome and Disrupting Scepter are worth $400+. Why is this? They are all Alpha/Beta rares and are basically terrible cards by today's standards. Yet Scepter and Tome are worth considerably more; even double in some cases. The reason why Scepter and Tome are worth more, is because of 93/94 playability. Both cards are played in one of the top decks in the format, called "The Deck". http://www.eternalcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/JonHammackECOSEW17Deck.jpg
Duals are historic, special, ultra premium cards, that in addition to all that are also highly playable. You really cannot top all the points that such cards cover, they have it all, they are needed by literally any player, no matter what, everyone wants them, everyone likes them, and you dont want to trade them away as they just keep getting more and more expensive.
They are the biggest magic has in stock market GOLD its as save as it gets and you really cannot ever have enough dual lands around the place you sleep ever.
Yes, Dual lands are one of the most desirable cards from Magic's birth. I never mentioned these cards in my post and was specifically talking about cards that are worth a lot of money, specifically because of their use in the 93/94 format. However, this does illustrate that a cards worth, is backed up by its use in some format. While old cards are expensive because they are old, some of those old cards carry a premium because they are playable in some type of format.
FYI: the box topper packs are searchable, there's a video on youtube about it.
It has been pretty well spread about at this point. They also are not a good buy because wotc did not ship these with the care needed, so there is a good chance the card may be damaged.
PSA: You can send damaged cards back to wizards and they will replace it for you. But you have to also send the packaging. More info here.
That's still really annoying if true.
Considering how unreliable the Hasbro Toy Shop site was during the Guilds of Ravnica: Mythic Edition fiasco which led to the release of Ultimate Masters, it's not surprising. Channel Fireball tried to circumvent the MSRP of the product in order to save the failing attendance of the Grand Prix that it ended up backfiring on them. As for the box toppers you're much better off purchasing them unsealed having full knowledge of the card's condition anyway unless you're willing to shell $300-400+ on a box.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
FYI: the box topper packs are searchable, there's a video on youtube about it.
It has been pretty well spread about at this point. They also are not a good buy because wotc did not ship these with the care needed, so there is a good chance the card may be damaged.
PSA: You can send damaged cards back to wizards and they will replace it for you. But you have to also send the packaging. More info here.
That's still really annoying if true.
I'm aware and have made use of the system. I can already tell you from experience that it should be on the shoulders of the seller to fix the card before listing it on ebay. The turn around time is incredibly bad on getting a card fixed from the manufacturer a lot of the time and it can sometimes take two or more weeks to get the card back. Remember, WoTC is about making profits, so anything they give for free will be the cheapest they can get away with. That includes super saver shipping.
Of course, because these packs are sealed, there is a degree of plausible deniability. Yes, you CAN tell if the card is damaged before opening it and it is provable, but do you really want to go into a fist fight with a person you have never met, probably don't know where they actually live or their real name, and spend even more money and time just to make a point?
But yeah, we could go on forever about this. There's also scammers right now trying to sell the sealed toppers under the disguise of being a booster box. I've found several entries on ebay where the seller put up a box topper, used an image of UMA, and then priced it as if it were a booster box at a discount (usually around 240-255 usd, just enough to supposedly undercut the early bird specials).
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, I just noticed that E-Witness and Finks are uncommon in the main set. That is starting to make me wonder if the premium box toppers are going to be rigged to favor the uncommons and rares over the mythics just to make sure the prices rebound. If that's the case the box topper is basically a glorified bonus foil without a full pack.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Right, AB cards are in high demand because of nostalgia and the fact that all other printings of many of the cards in AB were in white boarder. However, the price disparity between many of the cards, at the same or lower rarity, is because of 93/94. If you consider cards that are iconic, like Lord of the Pit, Nightmare, Force of Nature, and Demonic Hordes, you will see that their pricing is around $200-$300. Just like my example of Lord of Atlantis from above, these cards are almost nonexistent in 93/94, yet cards like Jayemdae Tome and Disrupting Scepter are worth $400+. Why is this? They are all Alpha/Beta rares and are basically terrible cards by today's standards. Yet Scepter and Tome are worth considerably more; even double in some cases. The reason why Scepter and Tome are worth more, is because of 93/94 playability. Both cards are played in one of the top decks in the format, called "The Deck". http://www.eternalcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/JonHammackECOSEW17Deck.jpg
Thanks for pointing this out. When I was a kid, I remember saving up $60 to purchase a single pack of legends, the last pack the store had. This was a few years after legends came out, which is why is was so expensive even then. The rare I opened was recall. I was disappointed at the time, since it was one of the less valuable rares because it was reprinted in chronicles. Still I never got rid of it. Now Becasue of this 93/94 format that your post just made me aware of, I looked it up and it’s a card that’s around $100. Still not the best legends rare to have opened, but hey, it’s nice to know I made my childhood $60 back.
Right, AB cards are in high demand because of nostalgia and the fact that all other printings of many of the cards in AB were in white boarder. However, the price disparity between many of the cards, at the same or lower rarity, is because of 93/94. If you consider cards that are iconic, like Lord of the Pit, Nightmare, Force of Nature, and Demonic Hordes, you will see that their pricing is around $200-$300. Just like my example of Lord of Atlantis from above, these cards are almost nonexistent in 93/94, yet cards like Jayemdae Tome and Disrupting Scepter are worth $400+. Why is this? They are all Alpha/Beta rares and are basically terrible cards by today's standards. Yet Scepter and Tome are worth considerably more; even double in some cases. The reason why Scepter and Tome are worth more, is because of 93/94 playability. Both cards are played in one of the top decks in the format, called "The Deck". http://www.eternalcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/JonHammackECOSEW17Deck.jpg
Thanks for pointing this out. When I was a kid, I remember saving up $60 to purchase a single pack of legends, the last pack the store had. This was a few years after legends came out, which is why is was so expensive even then. The rare I opened was recall. I was disappointed at the time, since it was one of the less valuable rares because it was reprinted in chronicles. Still I never got rid of it. Now Becasue of this 93/94 format that your post just made me aware of, I looked it up and it’s a card that’s around $100. Still not the best legends rare to have opened, but hey, it’s nice to know I made my childhood $60 back.
It's hard to put into words my own feelings on Magic the Gathering. The thing is I started around Portal when the game was still young and the reserved list wasn't even something that was heavily talked about. Back then most of us casual players or newbies just picked up cards to play and often had no idea what deck building even was supposed to be like. Back in the 90s it felt like a game that played off ones imagination to power it and that rarity didn't really matter as much as the theme of what one was trying to build.
Trying to compare what the game is now to what it was is just insane. It went from a game that was slow and had lots of different lines of play into this carefully engineered standard experience, where cards are purposefully created to be worse than others and discarded, with a shadow of it's former glory being painted with modern and legacy. Might I add, both despite being "healthy", play worse than the original game did.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
I don't think that even reanimate as an uncommon wouldn't been backbreaking if reanimation strategies were not too strong in limited. Nevertheless I am talking about potential unspoiled rarity changes which i am sure will happen, as in every other masters set.
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
I absolutely think that they should print more good and valuable stuff at uncommon, and at $14 a booster I would rather they give us good value at every rarity than try to build a perfect limited format... wait, what am I arguing here again? Oh yeah, Reanimate at uncommon would be completely busted in limited. I think you are wrong that it would not be to strong. But at $14, I don´t even care. Screw the limited format, I´d rather have some crazy stuff happen than pay 35-45 bucks and risk opening $7 of value. It´s not like anyone will do 10+ drafts with this anyway
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I'm not sure. Oubliette currently cost 17 dollars for played condition; or more (29 to 50 dollars) if your looking for perfect condition. Historically (and if you look at the past on wizards reprints), they would upgrade the rarity to a uncommon or a rare. This has nothing to do with drafting, this is because wizards don't want to hurt the secondary market. If that's the case, I would believe the reprint could remove Oubliette from pauper format.
reprints doesn't remove legality from pauper, lighning bolt is still legal even if it was reprinted as UC various times.
a reprint for oubliette would greatly help pauper player to aquire it and the value of the original arabian nights ones would not be hurt a lot, I think a UC reprint can be still considered fair
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
They already broke the game in terms of it being collectable. The commons and uncommons have been reprinted to such insane levels vs demand that only rares really count as collectible in the classic sense.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If you want to blame WOTC for something, blame their reprint choices. If this set features more Trees and trash, be my guest.
I'm not buying a single pack, because I can't afford it. But I'm not interested in complaining about it either.
They really should put Rhystic Study, Propaganda, Leyline, Asceticism, etc. in this.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The interesting thing about Mana Drain, is that the original printing didn't move much, if at all. It's just that the new card was worth $50-$60. Why this is interesting is because the printing of Drain, doesn't actually do anything for the people that want it. In the 93/94 format, you must have a card with the original artwork and old frame, so any modern reprinting does nothing to help offset that demand. The only other two formats that play the card are Vintage and EDH, and Mana Drain in Vintage is not seeing the play it once did, add in that EDH players only want one copy; you just don't have much demand for it. Because of all of this, you still have $200 Legends Drains, but also have a $60 version.
This is a distinctly different situation when compared to something like Tarmogoyf, as any printing of the card is basically the Future Shifted printing (since you can play any version, in any format it's legal in), so all Tarmogoyf cards generally command the same price.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
I agree with you, and think this will lead to the eventual abolishment of the reserved list.
Either way, I doubt the volume of this printing is enough to offset current card prices by the amounts the average player should want. Currently, if one wants prices to stay high as an elitism thing, then this is the right game for you. I sincerely hope Wizards, Hasbro, and the business-side powers-that-be prove this to be false, and make the game more accessible by crashing the secondary card market.
People do have preference for the original versions, however 93/94 contributes significantly to that. Look at cards like Erhnam Djinn, it sees play in Erhnamgeddon builds and the AN version commands a considerable premium over other printings.
Also, consider the case of Lord of Atlantis, it sees virtually zero play in 93/94, but it's popular in modern day merfolk builds (Legacy & Modern) and it's original two printings in Alpha and Beta can be had for around $200-$300. However, a card like Serra Angel, that sees no real play besides the 93/94 format costs around $400. The kicker is Serra is an Uncommon, while Lord of Atlantis is a Rare. If Lord of Atlantis was played in 93/94, we would see pricing on it like Savannah Lions, another Alpha/Beta rare. The difference between the two is that Lions sees a good bit of play in 93/94 and because of that costs $500+. And I don't think anyone would argue that Savannah Lions is anymore iconic than Lord of Atlantis.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Alpha/Beta cards are collectors items and priced heavily by nostalgia and collectors value.
Historic significant cards like Serra Angel will have a much higher cost, simply for its nostalgia value and that dips deep into the cards price.
Duals are historic, special, ultra premium cards, that in addition to all that are also highly playable. You really cannot top all the points that such cards cover, they have it all, they are needed by literally any player, no matter what, everyone wants them, everyone likes them, and you dont want to trade them away as they just keep getting more and more expensive.
They are the biggest magic has in stock market GOLD its as save as it gets and you really cannot ever have enough dual lands around the place you sleep ever.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
There's a good chance you're not going to make your money back on a $14 booster pack compared to a $300-400 box unless you're guaranteed a mythic which should have enough market value to pay for the pack itself. Even then you wouldn't be able to get the box topper unless you pay the $300-400 MSRP or whatever your LGS is charging for theirs so you'd be much better off purchasing singles and packs from Ultimate Masters. I'm not even sure If distributing Ultimate Masters as a non-limited print run would help reduce the MSRP of the set given the Secondary Market value of these reprints. We still don't know what this set has in store as far as uncommons and commons go aside from Eternal Witness and Kitchen Finks.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
It has been pretty well spread about at this point. They also are not a good buy because wotc did not ship these with the care needed, so there is a good chance the card may be damaged.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
PSA: You can send damaged cards back to wizards and they will replace it for you. But you have to also send the packaging. More info here.
That's still really annoying if true.
Right, AB cards are in high demand because of nostalgia and the fact that all other printings of many of the cards in AB were in white boarder. However, the price disparity between many of the cards, at the same or lower rarity, is because of 93/94. If you consider cards that are iconic, like Lord of the Pit, Nightmare, Force of Nature, and Demonic Hordes, you will see that their pricing is around $200-$300. Just like my example of Lord of Atlantis from above, these cards are almost nonexistent in 93/94, yet cards like Jayemdae Tome and Disrupting Scepter are worth $400+. Why is this? They are all Alpha/Beta rares and are basically terrible cards by today's standards. Yet Scepter and Tome are worth considerably more; even double in some cases. The reason why Scepter and Tome are worth more, is because of 93/94 playability. Both cards are played in one of the top decks in the format, called "The Deck". http://www.eternalcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/JonHammackECOSEW17Deck.jpg
Yes, Dual lands are one of the most desirable cards from Magic's birth. I never mentioned these cards in my post and was specifically talking about cards that are worth a lot of money, specifically because of their use in the 93/94 format. However, this does illustrate that a cards worth, is backed up by its use in some format. While old cards are expensive because they are old, some of those old cards carry a premium because they are playable in some type of format.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I'm aware and have made use of the system. I can already tell you from experience that it should be on the shoulders of the seller to fix the card before listing it on ebay. The turn around time is incredibly bad on getting a card fixed from the manufacturer a lot of the time and it can sometimes take two or more weeks to get the card back. Remember, WoTC is about making profits, so anything they give for free will be the cheapest they can get away with. That includes super saver shipping.
Of course, because these packs are sealed, there is a degree of plausible deniability. Yes, you CAN tell if the card is damaged before opening it and it is provable, but do you really want to go into a fist fight with a person you have never met, probably don't know where they actually live or their real name, and spend even more money and time just to make a point?
But yeah, we could go on forever about this. There's also scammers right now trying to sell the sealed toppers under the disguise of being a booster box. I've found several entries on ebay where the seller put up a box topper, used an image of UMA, and then priced it as if it were a booster box at a discount (usually around 240-255 usd, just enough to supposedly undercut the early bird specials).
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Thanks for pointing this out. When I was a kid, I remember saving up $60 to purchase a single pack of legends, the last pack the store had. This was a few years after legends came out, which is why is was so expensive even then. The rare I opened was recall. I was disappointed at the time, since it was one of the less valuable rares because it was reprinted in chronicles. Still I never got rid of it. Now Becasue of this 93/94 format that your post just made me aware of, I looked it up and it’s a card that’s around $100. Still not the best legends rare to have opened, but hey, it’s nice to know I made my childhood $60 back.
It's hard to put into words my own feelings on Magic the Gathering. The thing is I started around Portal when the game was still young and the reserved list wasn't even something that was heavily talked about. Back then most of us casual players or newbies just picked up cards to play and often had no idea what deck building even was supposed to be like. Back in the 90s it felt like a game that played off ones imagination to power it and that rarity didn't really matter as much as the theme of what one was trying to build.
Trying to compare what the game is now to what it was is just insane. It went from a game that was slow and had lots of different lines of play into this carefully engineered standard experience, where cards are purposefully created to be worse than others and discarded, with a shadow of it's former glory being painted with modern and legacy. Might I add, both despite being "healthy", play worse than the original game did.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!