Do you expect every $10-14 booster to have a $14-80 rare/mythic + $5 uncommons +$2 commons +1 foil?
If you want to check value, don't name single cards.
With all those lands I imagine that Crop Rotation will be in this set (a god foil inclusion). Eith all the endrazis and Karn, probably tron or posts will be too.
Is it a good idea to buy an ultimate masters box without the box topper? Or would I be missing out on too much value? I'm seeing 24 sealed packs for $220 on ebay from a large trusted seller. Claims to remove the box topper and nothing else will be moved/removed. Seems like a decent idea.
But I don't know, maybe these box toppers will be worth a good chunk and I can just see the seller sitting on a ton of these, making a killing off of selling them independently later. So maybe I should just get a complete sealed box
You mind as well just spend the extra $40 and guarantee yourself a box topper and no potential pack-shuffling shenanigans.
Tron lands cannot be in with the current spoiled cards.
Indeed, Tron Lands were crunched out the day the set was formally announced, when we saw Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth at number 254/254. Urzalands would be alphabetically later than that, and would have a higher number - Urborg ToY being the last number extinguished that hope.
You know a simple reprint that I'd appreciate that hasn't been crunched out yet? Fyndhorn Elves. It's been printed twice, in Ice Age and an FTV (20, I think), and it would be a nice change of pace from Llanowar and Mystic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
You know a simple reprint that I'd appreciate that hasn't been crunched out yet? Fyndhorn Elves. It's been printed twice, in Ice Age and an FTV (20, I think), and it would be a nice change of pace from Llanowar and Mystic.
I was wondering the same thing about there being a number crunch thread. MTGS usually has one up, so I guess no one here wanted the responsibility this time. I would do it myself if I wasn't so busy with the holidays coming up.
So now that we know the mythics and all(?) of the rares I still don't see the reason why they increased the price of boxes by $100. So far nothing sticks out that screams "This is why."
While I'm glad that Phyrexian Altar finally got a reprint due to being a popular EDH / Commander staple, I'd also like to see new reprints for Craterhoof Behemoth, Oracle of Mul Daya, and perhaps Cloudstone Curio. As far as commons and uncommons go, a reprint of Shadowborn Apostle would be nice to help make running multiple copies in an Athreos, God of Passage EDH deck much more affordable after witnessing Josh Lee Kwai's build for it on Game Knights. Oubliette is overdue for a reprint given it's popularity in Pauper.
This is really shaping up to be the Masters set we've always wanted but didn't get in Masters 25 and Iconic Masters where the MSRP wasn't as big of a factor due to the EV (Estimated / Expected Value) of reprints chosen. I don't think Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro are running out of cards to reprint which has been a concern among a lot of people where there might not be as much equity to make money off of especially for singles sellers. If Ultimate Masters does help drive the cost of Modern to a more affordable level then that should be a win-win for both the company and consumer.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
So now that we know the mythics and all(?) of the rares I still don't see the reason why they increased the price of boxes by $100. So far nothing sticks out that screams "This is why."
I, personally, don't believe Wizards can win here. From what I've read, many people on here want pure charity. They want Wizards to burn reprint equity for less than the market will pay. They want Wizards to give up financial gain to make a product arbitrarily cheaper. Wizards, being a company, has no incentive to do this. That asking price might be too expensive for some, but that doesn't preclude it from being a fair price none-the-less.
This set is insane from a value perspective. It's estimated value is well beyond any other set we've seen. In my opinion it is only fair for Wizards to ask a higher price given what they've put into the set. I think expecting different is expecting altruism, and altruistic companies don't survive very long.
TL:DR Wizards raised the MSRP because the market will pay it. You may not think it's worth the new price, but the market disagrees.
TL:DR Wizards raised the MSRP because the market will pay it. You may not think it's worth the new price, but the market disagrees.
If the Estimated / Expected Value of Ultimate Masters was as low as previous Masters sets then the MSRP would've been much lower. People complain when there's not as much Estimated / Expected Value in a set (especially in Standard legal sets) in order to flip and turn a profit on but when there's too much to the point where it undermines the LGS in favor of singles sellers THEN you have a problem. Trying to hold Sealed / Draft events for Masters sets is already a joke as it is, why try to ham it up even further with Ultimate Masters?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
So now that we know the mythics and all(?) of the rares I still don't see the reason why they increased the price of boxes by $100. So far nothing sticks out that screams "This is why."
I, personally, don't believe Wizards can win here. From what I've read, many people on here want pure charity. They want Wizards to burn reprint equity for less than the market will pay. They want Wizards to give up financial gain to make a product arbitrarily cheaper. Wizards, being a company, has no incentive to do this. That asking price might be too expensive for some, but that doesn't preclude it from being a fair price none-the-less.
This set is insane from a value perspective. It's estimated value is well beyond any other set we've seen. In my opinion it is only fair for Wizards to ask a higher price given what they've put into the set. I think expecting different is expecting altruism, and altruistic companies don't survive very long.
TL:DR Wizards raised the MSRP because the market will pay it. You may not think it's worth the new price, but the market disagrees.
New user and first post, huh? You sound an awful lot like a WotC shill. Who thinks they're a charity? Seriously, this meme needs to die already. It costs them THE SAME to print a Tarmogoyf than to print a Storm Crow.
And I get that not all rares can carry the cost of the pack, but there's rares like Fauna Shaman or Sublime Archangel and then there's rares like Squee or Reya. If I'm paying 14$ a pack I very well expect my rares to at least not be bulk bin rares. Then, there's the common staples rarity upshifting. Lava Spike, Bogle, Devoted Druid, you name it. If it's more than 3$ it can't be a common, God forbid a player opens a bunch of them to compensate for their garbage fire rare.
Also lmaoing at the "market disagreeing" bit when the boxes are being sold for near a regular Masters set price and basically everyone talking about how it's a cashgrab.
n here. From what I've read, many people on here want pure charity.
I stopped here because no one wants that and it's rather insane to suggest it.
Those who are more experienced definitely know that is not the case, but there is a ring of truth to that statement on a pure, basic level. From the negotiating table standpoint would it make sense that a person buying a car would want to negotiate a higher price than what the seller is offering? Ultimately, it is a bit of a failing in our society that the negotiating of price has now fallen from the personal level to the masses level, as a price that is good for one person will undoubtedly be bad for another, and as long as both ending prices are within levels of getting profits they are good prices to the seller.
For those complaining about prices, they just need to wait until after the release happens. There's a lot more of this masters set than people realize and the highest point in value that the boxes will have is on release day. After that, it's largely the box topper that is going to keep the sealed product afloat. The boosters themselves are probably going to be worth around 8-10 dollars each and not the crazy price the msrp suggests.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So now that we know the mythics and all(?) of the rares I still don't see the reason why they increased the price of boxes by $100. So far nothing sticks out that screams "This is why."
There should be one last rare I heard there’s 53 rares and we are at 52
And whatever the rest is I’m really really hoping rhystic study is one of the blue cards of the rest at atleast uncommon heck with that new art
It costs them THE SAME to print a Tarmogoyf than to print a Storm Crow.
That is just not correct (in a way).
No, it IS correct. Costs are the same period. The sky isn't green, grass isn't pink, the world is not flat. Printing costs are fixed. End of argument.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
What I mean is: The costs of printing dont matter at all!
Exactly, tell that to Wizards/Hasbro then, not us. I'm sick of seeing garbage printed at rare in ULTIMATE sets. There is no excuse other than propping up secondary market sellers and the usual bogus "for limited" argument. Ultimate means ultimate, not tier 75345 trash and Wotc doesn't spend a raw cent more including Goyf over some other jank rare. They need to stop being so stingy and greedy in their reprint choices. This set is better than the 2 before it but is no where near being "ultimate". Its like buying a winning 20 dollar Ultimate scratch off and finding you won a stalk of celery. The chaff should have been filtered out. At this price point no rare should be below 5 bucks. Chase commons over 3 bucks don't have to be upgraded. It could have been done, they just didn't want to do it.
Go soft on Wizards and they won't improve at all. Hold their feet to the fire!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I am usually on the other side of the "they shouldnt print chaff" argument.
However, this time I'm on the train.
Only because this is Ultimate Masters. A Limited Print Run. They raised the price.
Because its true that chaff is usually 1/7 of a pack price, that means at minimum a terrible chaff rare in this set should still hold $2 value. Another Half the rares should be $5-12 value. They did not do that in this set. And though usually I am the first one to say "of course there are crap rares, they cant all be winners that would be ridiculous", that usually applies to a standard set or normal supplemental. NOT a $14 Masters pack. It really should be LOADED, even the commons and uncommons. Granted the Hit/Miss ratio on the Mythics seem to be pretty good in this set and there are quite a few Good Rares....it should still be more, and thats not because the player base is being greedy or unrealistic, its because Wizards chose to give us a $14 Ultimate Masters Set.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
I am usually on the other side of the "they shouldnt print chaff" argument.
However, this time I'm on the train.
Only because this is Ultimate Masters. A Limited Print Run. They raised the price.
Because its true that chaff is usually 1/7 of a pack price, that means at minimum a terrible chaff rare in this set should still hold $2 value. Another Half the rares should be $5-12 value. They did not do that in this set. And though usually I am the first one to say "of course there are crap rares, they cant all be winners that would be ridiculous", that usually applies to a standard set or normal supplemental. NOT a $14 Masters pack. It really should be LOADED, even the commons and uncommons. Granted the Hit/Miss ratio on the Mythics seem to be pretty good in this set and there are quite a few Good Rares....it should still be more, and thats not because the player base is being greedy or unrealistic, its because Wizards chose to give us a $14 Ultimate Masters Set.
I think the $14 is a bit of a misnomer. People could just as easily buy 8 3-pack blisters and pay $12/pack. The extra $2/pack is WotC selling you a "lottery ticket" box topper. I don't agree with the idea, but here we are nonetheless.
Do you expect every $10-14 booster to have a $14-80 rare/mythic + $5 uncommons +$2 commons +1 foil?
If you want to check value, don't name single cards.
With all those lands I imagine that Crop Rotation will be in this set (a god foil inclusion). Eith all the endrazis and Karn, probably tron or posts will be too.
You mind as well just spend the extra $40 and guarantee yourself a box topper and no potential pack-shuffling shenanigans.
Signature courtesy of Rivenor and Miraculous Recovery
EDH Altered Cards by Galspanic (Seriously, this guy's awesome.)
My Pauper Cube
Tapped-Out Simulator
My Trade Thread
-Decks-
Commander:
GWR Rith, the Awakener RWG
U Kami of the Crescent Moon U (Flagship Deck)
BW Teysa, Orzhov Scion WB
Under Construction:
UBR Crosis, the Purger RBU
Cube:
WUBRGX Pauper XGRBUW
Indeed, Tron Lands were crunched out the day the set was formally announced, when we saw Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth at number 254/254. Urzalands would be alphabetically later than that, and would have a higher number - Urborg ToY being the last number extinguished that hope.
Similarly, Celestial Colonnade and Creeping Tar Pit having consecutive numbers crunched out Cloudpost.
My 720 Peasant Cube
I wonder what it will be would be thrilled if it’s defense of the heart
Joraga Treespeaker is the one I'd like to see in that slot.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
This is really shaping up to be the Masters set we've always wanted but didn't get in Masters 25 and Iconic Masters where the MSRP wasn't as big of a factor due to the EV (Estimated / Expected Value) of reprints chosen. I don't think Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro are running out of cards to reprint which has been a concern among a lot of people where there might not be as much equity to make money off of especially for singles sellers. If Ultimate Masters does help drive the cost of Modern to a more affordable level then that should be a win-win for both the company and consumer.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I, personally, don't believe Wizards can win here. From what I've read, many people on here want pure charity. They want Wizards to burn reprint equity for less than the market will pay. They want Wizards to give up financial gain to make a product arbitrarily cheaper. Wizards, being a company, has no incentive to do this. That asking price might be too expensive for some, but that doesn't preclude it from being a fair price none-the-less.
This set is insane from a value perspective. It's estimated value is well beyond any other set we've seen. In my opinion it is only fair for Wizards to ask a higher price given what they've put into the set. I think expecting different is expecting altruism, and altruistic companies don't survive very long.
TL:DR Wizards raised the MSRP because the market will pay it. You may not think it's worth the new price, but the market disagrees.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
New user and first post, huh? You sound an awful lot like a WotC shill. Who thinks they're a charity? Seriously, this meme needs to die already. It costs them THE SAME to print a Tarmogoyf than to print a Storm Crow.
And I get that not all rares can carry the cost of the pack, but there's rares like Fauna Shaman or Sublime Archangel and then there's rares like Squee or Reya. If I'm paying 14$ a pack I very well expect my rares to at least not be bulk bin rares. Then, there's the common staples rarity upshifting. Lava Spike, Bogle, Devoted Druid, you name it. If it's more than 3$ it can't be a common, God forbid a player opens a bunch of them to compensate for their garbage fire rare.
Also lmaoing at the "market disagreeing" bit when the boxes are being sold for near a regular Masters set price and basically everyone talking about how it's a cashgrab.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
I stopped here because no one wants that and it's rather insane to suggest it.
Those who are more experienced definitely know that is not the case, but there is a ring of truth to that statement on a pure, basic level. From the negotiating table standpoint would it make sense that a person buying a car would want to negotiate a higher price than what the seller is offering? Ultimately, it is a bit of a failing in our society that the negotiating of price has now fallen from the personal level to the masses level, as a price that is good for one person will undoubtedly be bad for another, and as long as both ending prices are within levels of getting profits they are good prices to the seller.
For those complaining about prices, they just need to wait until after the release happens. There's a lot more of this masters set than people realize and the highest point in value that the boxes will have is on release day. After that, it's largely the box topper that is going to keep the sealed product afloat. The boosters themselves are probably going to be worth around 8-10 dollars each and not the crazy price the msrp suggests.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There should be one last rare I heard there’s 53 rares and we are at 52
And whatever the rest is I’m really really hoping rhystic study is one of the blue cards of the rest at atleast uncommon heck with that new art
No, it IS correct. Costs are the same period. The sky isn't green, grass isn't pink, the world is not flat. Printing costs are fixed. End of argument.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
No, Tarmogoyf has a foil stamp in the card, Storm Crow don't. lol
Seriously, print cost matters the same for MTG precification as manufacture for a Louis Vuitton bag.
Exactly, tell that to Wizards/Hasbro then, not us. I'm sick of seeing garbage printed at rare in ULTIMATE sets. There is no excuse other than propping up secondary market sellers and the usual bogus "for limited" argument. Ultimate means ultimate, not tier 75345 trash and Wotc doesn't spend a raw cent more including Goyf over some other jank rare. They need to stop being so stingy and greedy in their reprint choices. This set is better than the 2 before it but is no where near being "ultimate". Its like buying a winning 20 dollar Ultimate scratch off and finding you won a stalk of celery. The chaff should have been filtered out. At this price point no rare should be below 5 bucks. Chase commons over 3 bucks don't have to be upgraded. It could have been done, they just didn't want to do it.
Go soft on Wizards and they won't improve at all. Hold their feet to the fire!
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
However, this time I'm on the train.
Only because this is Ultimate Masters. A Limited Print Run. They raised the price.
Because its true that chaff is usually 1/7 of a pack price, that means at minimum a terrible chaff rare in this set should still hold $2 value. Another Half the rares should be $5-12 value. They did not do that in this set. And though usually I am the first one to say "of course there are crap rares, they cant all be winners that would be ridiculous", that usually applies to a standard set or normal supplemental. NOT a $14 Masters pack. It really should be LOADED, even the commons and uncommons. Granted the Hit/Miss ratio on the Mythics seem to be pretty good in this set and there are quite a few Good Rares....it should still be more, and thats not because the player base is being greedy or unrealistic, its because Wizards chose to give us a $14 Ultimate Masters Set.
I think the $14 is a bit of a misnomer. People could just as easily buy 8 3-pack blisters and pay $12/pack. The extra $2/pack is WotC selling you a "lottery ticket" box topper. I don't agree with the idea, but here we are nonetheless.
Signature courtesy of Rivenor and Miraculous Recovery
EDH Altered Cards by Galspanic (Seriously, this guy's awesome.)
My Pauper Cube
Tapped-Out Simulator
My Trade Thread
-Decks-
Commander:
GWR Rith, the Awakener RWG
U Kami of the Crescent Moon U (Flagship Deck)
BW Teysa, Orzhov Scion WB
Under Construction:
UBR Crosis, the Purger RBU
Cube:
WUBRGX Pauper XGRBUW