They are just saying they are taking a break from those after this one.
I mean after all iconic and 25 masters was less than a year apart from each other
I'd be surprised if the break is more than 3 years. I'm expecting perhaps a break in 2019 and possibly 2020, but I'll be surprised if there isn't one in 2021.
It's just hard to have faith in a company that has spent half a decade destroying consumer confidence. Their words are worth less than the cardboard they sell for so much.
It's just hard to have faith in a company that has spent half a decade destroying consumer confidence. Their words are worth less than the cardboard they sell for so much.
Are we talking about Konami? Because relative to what I've seen, I know we're not talking WOTC. And even if we were, I'd blame Hasbro first.
There's been far too much said about this, but I feel the need to say it still.
Wizards seems to act like they can print their way out of problems with modern/non-RL legacy.
They can, but doing so requires an unlimited print-on-demand run. You can track every one of the modern masters sets - mythics will increase in price around 5-6 months after the initial printing. You've added maybe 1% to supply and 50% to demand, when your issue was already a massive supply-side shortage.
Look at Flusterstorm, a card that was almost $100. It got printed in Iconic Masters, an unlimited print run set. By launch it had lost 2/3rds of its value, now it's in the 10-15 range one year later.
Compare that to Scalding Tarn, a card that was $80. It got reprinted in Modern Masters 3, a heavily limited print run set. By launch it had only lost about 20% of its value, and a year later it's basically at the exact same price as it was before the reprint.
Compare THOSE to Noble Hierarch, a card that was $60. It got reprinted in MM2, a heavily limited print run set. By launch it had lost 30% of its value, and it's now $80.
Wizards can easily print themselves out of this bubble if they want to. The problem is they don't seem to recognize it, and there's enough suckers for them to get paid for it anyhow.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
It's just hard to have faith in a company that has spent half a decade destroying consumer confidence. Their words are worth less than the cardboard they sell for so much.
I always forget that I've been heavily into Magic for about that long. After University, around Dragon's Maze/Theros was when I started getting into Magic as more than just a fun/casual thing.
As if the hoarders and scalpers that established the secondary market we can blame for this won't be up in arms over anyone having a chance to actually play this game the moment their precious investments come into question. Blame losers like that for this mess, not WOTC. Turning chump change profit on cards. Tragic.
I have this nagging feeling that this product was hurriedly made last minute. Perhaps due to failure of past Master sets or perhaps wanting to meet annual revenue targets.
I think the price maybe too high even with the foil toppers but as with my philosophy, reprints are always good for the entite community.
On a personal level I am not interested in thr product, except getting the new art for Eternal Witness. (Box topper would be nice too)
One thing I i'd like to bring up mostly becasue secondary market comments have been rubbing me wrong this past week:
Legally speaking, wizards can't acknowledge a secondary market for if they were to in most states in the US, the booster packs would then fall under gambling laws due to the company knowing the varying value with a set MSRP. We really don't want boosters to only to be able to be sold to people 18 and older.
But more on topic:Yea I feel some of the reprints are lackluster (looking at you Lavaclaw Reaches) but again we are never going to get a set that's average value at or before release is greater than the MSRP. If this were to happen wizards would make a killing on their set but they won't sell other sets after that due to a flooded market. I feel this masters set with the increased value feels bad at the moment but we have no idea on the uncommon and commons in the set.
If we get a common lightning bolt and Daze and more uncommons like eternal witness these packs will have a decent value. We have a small snapshot as of now and I feel at the moment yea its not looking great but I have hope wizards will put some decent valued uncommons in.
Mods please let me insult themw ith all sorts of names....
yeah but look at the value in the set. i have to believe the EV per box is higher than previous sets, even with the higher cost. then add on the promos (which will be extremely scarce with 40 potentials).
we will have to see the rarity on all the cards to see for sure though.
Value in the set? It costs the same for wizards to print a Grizzly Bears as to print Karn. The other Master Sets shouldn't have costed 10 dollars a pack. not everyone cana fford to get those promo foils so increasing the price of product jsut because of those is ridiculous from my point of view.
The paint and canvas of the Mona Lisa also isn't worth Millions. Money is just paper yaddy yadda...welcome to capitalism.
Most products are worth far less than the materials that are put into making them,that's because the process/technology to reshape the materials into the final product make up a majority of the cost. Money has legal power backing up their worth. The Mono Lisa in addition to taking many hours from one of the most skilled painters, is a unique item.
Magic cards poses none of these qualities, they are a cheaply massed produced product which some of have value due to artificial scarcity. But if you still think you Mona-Lisa comparison is actually valid, then I'll happily sell you a mass-produced modern made Mona-lisa for only tens of thousands of dollars.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
It's just hard to have faith in a company that has spent half a decade destroying consumer confidence. Their words are worth less than the cardboard they sell for so much.
Are we talking about Konami? Because relative to what I've seen, I know we're not talking WOTC. And even if we were, I'd blame Hasbro first.
I don't refer to the puppeteer and the puppet by different names; they are one and the same, despite their different appearances.
It's just hard to have faith in a company that has spent half a decade destroying consumer confidence. Their words are worth less than the cardboard they sell for so much.
"Destroying consumer confidence"? Even though their past few blocks have all been major hits? As have been the Commander products, Conspiracy sets, and Battlebond? Hell, pretty much all of their sets since Shards of Alara? About the only products that haven't done well are secondary products like Duel Decks and Masters. I don't know what evidence you have to back up that claim, but it sounds like distorted perception of reality to me.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Aren’t you guys kind of jumping the gun the rest of the cards will be jank
Masters already has a history of incredible jank, add on an extra $4 a pack and suddenly what felt decent for $10 packs suddenly becomes jank in $14 packs.
When you increase the price by $4 even those $5 uncommons don't feel good anymore.
Aren’t you guys kind of jumping the gun the rest of the cards will be jank
Masters already has a history of incredible jank, add on an extra $4 a pack and suddenly what felt decent for $10 packs suddenly becomes jank in $14 packs.
When you increase the price by $4 even those $5 uncommons don't feel good anymore.
Basically, this. The set is way too expensive even if they do throw insane stuff into it. The company lost sight of itself ages ago and allowed the game to go to payers instead of players outside of draft / limited.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Aren’t you guys kind of jumping the gun the rest of the cards will be jank
I’m sure there’s quite a bit more that are high value cards or highly played cards but always want to buy cards by singles and not packs there’s still gonna be some low value cards though no question
For example cabal coffers could be in it since tomb of yawgmoth is and they may want to put in that combo.
The thing is they are always filled with wank. Look at MM3 and you have to pull phantasmal image (the 13th most valuable card) just to break even. There are only 4 mythics out of 14 that cost more than a single booster.
And MM3 was one of the good master sets.
I’m aware of that
I’m just saying you guys seem to be assuming the rest are that level
I don’t think so I mean for example (note some of my examples might be crunched out)
I’m not saying we will get those I’m just saying it’s a little too soon to conclude no more $6-$15 or higher uncommons and rares at this point (I’m assuming all mythics are revealed)
It's just hard to have faith in a company that has spent half a decade destroying consumer confidence. Their words are worth less than the cardboard they sell for so much.
"Destroying consumer confidence"? Even though their past few blocks have all been major hits? As have been the Commander products, Conspiracy sets, and Battlebond? Hell, pretty much all of their sets since Shards of Alara? About the only products that haven't done well are secondary products like Duel Decks and Masters. I don't know what evidence you have to back up that claim, but it sounds like distorted perception of reality to me.
Commander 2018 was a joke and alot of people had issues with it. Battle for Zendikar was a disaster of a block as was the new rotation. It was so bad that they had to bring back Core sets. The way they handled FNM promos in the last years has been garbage. Like come on foil Tokens as FNM promos was a joke. Their Master Sets have mostly been ridiculous.
They always take 1 step forward and then 2 steps backwards. They have been going up and down and that doesn't help the consumers have faith on them with so many blunders under their belt.
Belefire Dragon , Sigarda and Lord of Extinction should have been cards included in Commander or Conspiracy/Battlebond products instead of a premium product like this one.
I agree with a lot of the consternation here. What would really sell me on this set is rarity downgrades. I want all the rares to be straight fire, and most of the uncommons to be downshifted rares.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
What kills me is that they know they have duds for the ultimate box toppers. Some of the man-lands, Tasigur... but the rest of the cards are great. So they knowingly included duds.
The lands could have been the Blackcleave Cliffs cycle if they didn't want Shocks/Fetches.
The fact that they knowingly chose sub-par cards to be ultimate box toppers tells me that the set will have a lot of misses. We are going to get some great cards, for sure, but we will probably have overprinted cards like Wilt-Leaf Liege and Swords to Plowshares.
If they printed the entire set in the borderless, or near borderless like the box toppers, then I can rationalize the increase in price since that's an extra printing cost to them. I just don't see the point to this set to happen now, since EMA and A25 were released this year as well unless it was intended all along (which it sounds like it). I just crossed checked the spoiled toppers with the other two sets' rares and mythics, and only Karakas was printed previously this year so far. So maybe, they came up with list of all the reprints they wanted to do for the year and they saved the "best" (chase cards) to get the special treatment and jack the price up to compensate for the value they are releasing.
I'm curious to see what commons and uncommons are printed. If there was any chance of high costed commons like Oubliette, Rhystic Study, or Lotus Petal to get printed and likely shifted up to uncommon at minimum is in this set.
On a side note, I like that they are experimenting more with the double-cut printing technology. I really like the borderless style and hope it becomes more of a standard printing for them.
It doesn't hurt me for WotC to publish a product above my price point, but if anyone's opening packs with cards I want, I stand to benefit from the secondary market.
Given all the cheap Masters singles I've gotten over the years, I'm pretty sure somebody opens all these overpriced packs. Even the ones with trees.
I'd love to see Through the Breach or Demonic Tutor hit a price where I can replace my proxies, even if Snapcaster and Goyf won't.
It's just hard to have faith in a company that has spent half a decade destroying consumer confidence. Their words are worth less than the cardboard they sell for so much.
"Destroying consumer confidence"? Even though their past few blocks have all been major hits? As have been the Commander products, Conspiracy sets, and Battlebond? Hell, pretty much all of their sets since Shards of Alara? About the only products that haven't done well are secondary products like Duel Decks and Masters. I don't know what evidence you have to back up that claim, but it sounds like distorted perception of reality to me.
No, their past few blocks have SOLD decently, though they ended print runs for Khladesh before the set even rotated due to their earlier mistaken ideas of "Quicker rotations is great, guys!" Which is the real problem: HASBRO directives that have led to constant shake-ups in how Standard works, more cards banned in 2 years than had seen banned in the last decade combined(!), and multiple terrible Masters sets smashed into the same year. Also, their newest Commander set wasn't highly-regarded, their treatment of Pros and Cheaters is constantly being addressed by fans and some of the best Pros around as "incredibly inadequate," and their communication is among the worst.
PROFIT MARGINS!!! do not inspire confidence in a consumer, IMO. A company that can actually adapt and move in tandem with their player-base is much more successful than a Blockbuster that just continues to make a ton of money doing things exactly one way....until it doesn't.
What kills me is that they know they have duds for the ultimate box toppers. Some of the man-lands, Tasigur... but the rest of the cards are great. So they knowingly included duds.
The lands could have been the Blackcleave Cliffs cycle if they didn't want Shocks/Fetches.
The fact that they knowingly chose sub-par cards to be ultimate box toppers tells me that the set will have a lot of misses. We are going to get some great cards, for sure, but we will probably have overprinted cards like Wilt-Leaf Liege and Swords to Plowshares.
Yep, duds for box toppers means duds for all other rarities. Feel bad 1 dollar packs will be out there. Will there be enough feel good packs to counteract that? I don't know.
Oh, Devoted Druid will get upshifted to uncommon if printed. We all know it will happen.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Buts it’s definately not the end of master sets
They are just saying they are taking a break from those after this one.
I mean after all iconic and 25 masters was less than a year apart from each other
I'd be surprised if the break is more than 3 years. I'm expecting perhaps a break in 2019 and possibly 2020, but I'll be surprised if there isn't one in 2021.
Maybe they'll do Masters sets in the future or maybe they'll find a new way to do reprints
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Wizards seems to act like they can print their way out of problems with modern/non-RL legacy.
They can, but doing so requires an unlimited print-on-demand run. You can track every one of the modern masters sets - mythics will increase in price around 5-6 months after the initial printing. You've added maybe 1% to supply and 50% to demand, when your issue was already a massive supply-side shortage.
Look at Flusterstorm, a card that was almost $100. It got printed in Iconic Masters, an unlimited print run set. By launch it had lost 2/3rds of its value, now it's in the 10-15 range one year later.
Compare that to Scalding Tarn, a card that was $80. It got reprinted in Modern Masters 3, a heavily limited print run set. By launch it had only lost about 20% of its value, and a year later it's basically at the exact same price as it was before the reprint.
Compare THOSE to Noble Hierarch, a card that was $60. It got reprinted in MM2, a heavily limited print run set. By launch it had lost 30% of its value, and it's now $80.
Wizards can easily print themselves out of this bubble if they want to. The problem is they don't seem to recognize it, and there's enough suckers for them to get paid for it anyhow.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I always forget that I've been heavily into Magic for about that long. After University, around Dragon's Maze/Theros was when I started getting into Magic as more than just a fun/casual thing.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I think the price maybe too high even with the foil toppers but as with my philosophy, reprints are always good for the entite community.
On a personal level I am not interested in thr product, except getting the new art for Eternal Witness. (Box topper would be nice too)
Legally speaking, wizards can't acknowledge a secondary market for if they were to in most states in the US, the booster packs would then fall under gambling laws due to the company knowing the varying value with a set MSRP. We really don't want boosters to only to be able to be sold to people 18 and older.
But more on topic:Yea I feel some of the reprints are lackluster (looking at you Lavaclaw Reaches) but again we are never going to get a set that's average value at or before release is greater than the MSRP. If this were to happen wizards would make a killing on their set but they won't sell other sets after that due to a flooded market. I feel this masters set with the increased value feels bad at the moment but we have no idea on the uncommon and commons in the set.
If we get a common lightning bolt and Daze and more uncommons like eternal witness these packs will have a decent value. We have a small snapshot as of now and I feel at the moment yea its not looking great but I have hope wizards will put some decent valued uncommons in.
Ulka
Most products are worth far less than the materials that are put into making them,that's because the process/technology to reshape the materials into the final product make up a majority of the cost. Money has legal power backing up their worth. The Mono Lisa in addition to taking many hours from one of the most skilled painters, is a unique item.
Magic cards poses none of these qualities, they are a cheaply massed produced product which some of have value due to artificial scarcity. But if you still think you Mona-Lisa comparison is actually valid, then I'll happily sell you a mass-produced modern made Mona-lisa for only tens of thousands of dollars.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I don't refer to the puppeteer and the puppet by different names; they are one and the same, despite their different appearances.
"Destroying consumer confidence"? Even though their past few blocks have all been major hits? As have been the Commander products, Conspiracy sets, and Battlebond? Hell, pretty much all of their sets since Shards of Alara? About the only products that haven't done well are secondary products like Duel Decks and Masters. I don't know what evidence you have to back up that claim, but it sounds like distorted perception of reality to me.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Masters already has a history of incredible jank, add on an extra $4 a pack and suddenly what felt decent for $10 packs suddenly becomes jank in $14 packs.
When you increase the price by $4 even those $5 uncommons don't feel good anymore.
Through the Breach by Randy Vargas.
Basically, this. The set is way too expensive even if they do throw insane stuff into it. The company lost sight of itself ages ago and allowed the game to go to payers instead of players outside of draft / limited.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I’m aware of that
I’m just saying you guys seem to be assuming the rest are that level
I don’t think so I mean for example (note some of my examples might be crunched out)
I mean how do we know we not gonna get stuff like
I’m not saying we will get those I’m just saying it’s a little too soon to conclude no more $6-$15 or higher uncommons and rares at this point (I’m assuming all mythics are revealed)
Commander 2018 was a joke and alot of people had issues with it. Battle for Zendikar was a disaster of a block as was the new rotation. It was so bad that they had to bring back Core sets. The way they handled FNM promos in the last years has been garbage. Like come on foil Tokens as FNM promos was a joke. Their Master Sets have mostly been ridiculous.
They always take 1 step forward and then 2 steps backwards. They have been going up and down and that doesn't help the consumers have faith on them with so many blunders under their belt.
My 720 Peasant Cube
The lands could have been the Blackcleave Cliffs cycle if they didn't want Shocks/Fetches.
The fact that they knowingly chose sub-par cards to be ultimate box toppers tells me that the set will have a lot of misses. We are going to get some great cards, for sure, but we will probably have overprinted cards like Wilt-Leaf Liege and Swords to Plowshares.
Hope Devoted Druid is at common.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I'm curious to see what commons and uncommons are printed. If there was any chance of high costed commons like Oubliette, Rhystic Study, or Lotus Petal to get printed and likely shifted up to uncommon at minimum is in this set.
On a side note, I like that they are experimenting more with the double-cut printing technology. I really like the borderless style and hope it becomes more of a standard printing for them.
Given all the cheap Masters singles I've gotten over the years, I'm pretty sure somebody opens all these overpriced packs. Even the ones with trees.
I'd love to see Through the Breach or Demonic Tutor hit a price where I can replace my proxies, even if Snapcaster and Goyf won't.
No, their past few blocks have SOLD decently, though they ended print runs for Khladesh before the set even rotated due to their earlier mistaken ideas of "Quicker rotations is great, guys!" Which is the real problem: HASBRO directives that have led to constant shake-ups in how Standard works, more cards banned in 2 years than had seen banned in the last decade combined(!), and multiple terrible Masters sets smashed into the same year. Also, their newest Commander set wasn't highly-regarded, their treatment of Pros and Cheaters is constantly being addressed by fans and some of the best Pros around as "incredibly inadequate," and their communication is among the worst.
PROFIT MARGINS!!! do not inspire confidence in a consumer, IMO. A company that can actually adapt and move in tandem with their player-base is much more successful than a Blockbuster that just continues to make a ton of money doing things exactly one way....until it doesn't.
Yep, duds for box toppers means duds for all other rarities. Feel bad 1 dollar packs will be out there. Will there be enough feel good packs to counteract that? I don't know.
Oh, Devoted Druid will get upshifted to uncommon if printed. We all know it will happen.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."