I can’t believe none of you guys are saying phage since it’s player deathtouch and you turn him into a unblockable then phage after blockers are declared 9 mana needed though
Going to have to disagree with the majority here, this is a terrible card.
It essentially has the same ability as The Scarab God, but redesigned for a 2 CMC shell. As a result, in a direct comparison new Lazav does not increase your board presence (The Scarab God produces tokens), has a scaling mana cost for the ability instead of a fixed mana cost, does not trigger ETBs, does not interact with your opponents GYs, does not cheat Commander tax, and does not have repeated lifegain/scry.
Do I expect a 2 CMC to compare to a 5 CMC? Of course not, but a direct comparison of just the GY ability shows just how inferior Lazav's ability is in comparison, a lot more inferior than a normal comparison between abilities on a 2 CMC and 5 CMC creature. IMO this has been massively scaled back, and I'm sad to say that Brawl is probably to blame.
If you're paying mana into Lazav's ability, that is mana that is not being used to increase your board presence, increase your card advantage, or influence the game state in almost any way. It's as if you've just swapped Lazav with a creature in your GY, and spent a lot of mana to do it. There are way more efficient ways to achieve the same thing.
If you only ever think of things in terms of pure numbers, play commander for pure numerical value (for some reason), and don't recognize that the cards aren't trying to do the same thing at all, then maybe.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
There must be a combo with Training Grounds. Nyxathid is a sweet interaction. He's not Modern playable, the mana requirement is just too much.
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Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
There must be a combo with Training Grounds. Nyxathid is a sweet interaction. He's not Modern playable, the mana requirement is just too much.
Yes, there is, if you have a 3 mana creature with persist and a 3 mana creature with Undying, and phyrexian Altar. Or you can have a Driver of the Dead and the altar, and if it works as i imagine (u targeting lazav cause the altar ability is a mana ability(and that don't work, would need 2 lazav))
I like how this Lazav can copy your stuff. Makes him much easier to build around than the original. Now to find a Grixis commander suitable to play Lazav with Grenzo, Dungeon Warden.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Seems like a lot of fun and for commander that's the only requirement.
Standard, maybe, depends on what he has to work with, which is better than the last iteration which couldn't compete.
Modern, probably in a tier 8 modern deck someone will play for fun and still win matches and the fact someone can play some stupid deck and still win sometimes is what makes modern fun. I vaguely remember some Pack rat + training grounds deck you could slot this into.
I like how this Lazav can copy your stuff. Makes him much easier to build around than the original. Now to find a Grixis commander suitable to play Lazav with Grenzo, Dungeon Warden.
There must be a combo with Training Grounds. Nyxathid is a sweet interaction. He's not Modern playable, the mana requirement is just too much.
Yes, there is, if you have a 3 mana creature with persist and a 3 mana creature with Undying, and phyrexian Altar. Or you can have a Driver of the Dead and the altar, and if it works as i imagine (u targeting lazav cause the altar ability is a mana ability(and that don't work, would need 2 lazav))
I'm mostly looking for a Modern combo, I don't play EDH or casual. I suppose you have more options for Legacy, but it's much harder to brew in Legacy.
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Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I already have a U/B Training Grounds deck with Pack Rat. It's a decent deck. It's possible he could be used as like a 1 or 2-of, but it won't be breaking the deck anytime soon.
Beyond this deck, I see 0 potential. Perhaps some combo deck involving binning Bogles to protect it but highly unlikely. Or you could play the Nyxathid deck and have big dumbies, but then you might as welll be playing Grixis Death's Shadow.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
They do different things. Doppleganger is about the utility to be what you need and remove threats from your opponent's yard. Removing your own cards is more of an emergency act.
This is flat out turning your graveyard into a collection of happy masks to wear as needed to be whatever you need whenever you need it. So low CMC utility creatures get repeated protective use, instead of being out your Invisible Stalker and needing to bin another one every time you need Hexproof.
As someone with a very personal attachment to the original, new Lazav does my heart good. He's not strictly better, just very different. I do wish he still had hexproof, but not at this cost, no way. Some fun tricks one could pull with him. Almost makes me want to try my hand at a new Lazav deck in honor of my stolen original.
Going to have to disagree with the majority here, this is a terrible card.
It essentially has the same ability as The Scarab God, but redesigned for a 2 CMC shell. As a result, in a direct comparison new Lazav does not increase your board presence (The Scarab God produces tokens), has a scaling mana cost for the ability instead of a fixed mana cost, does not trigger ETBs, does not interact with your opponents GYs, does not cheat Commander tax, and does not have repeated lifegain/scry.
Do I expect a 2 CMC to compare to a 5 CMC? Of course not, but a direct comparison of just the GY ability shows just how inferior Lazav's ability is in comparison, a lot more inferior than a normal comparison between abilities on a 2 CMC and 5 CMC creature. IMO this has been massively scaled back, and I'm sad to say that Brawl is probably to blame.
If you're paying mana into Lazav's ability, that is mana that is not being used to increase your board presence, increase your card advantage, or influence the game state in almost any way. It's as if you've just swapped Lazav with a creature in your GY, and spent a lot of mana to do it. There are way more efficient ways to achieve the same thing.
It really depends a lot more on what else is in the set and how the new standard meta turns out as far as how playable he is. I'd say he is a rather oddball Raise Dead that is vulnerable to removal, but on the upside there is at least a 1/3 blocker up to stop all turn 1 creature plays and a lot of turn 2 plays. Once people hit turn 3+ his value quickly shifts to the ability to just become whatever is in the graveyard. He's 100% built to be a surveil payoff just like how the green white two drop is the payoff for convoke.
Don't mind having some interesting stuff to work with in a limited / cube environment, but the money is in the eternal playable cards here and I'm still tapping my foot. If they don't put enough cards that are at the same level in the set, standard gets expensive because all the money gets concentrated in too few cards on the singles market. Case in point last season with The Scarab God, Hazoret the Fervent, Rekindling Phoenix, and for a time Rhonas the Indomitable. Before that it was Torrential Gearhulk.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You keep saying that and I am left wondering if you actually read the dang card.
If you change it into Dreadnaught it no longer has infect.
...which is why he mentioned Vector Asp, a creature that grants itself infect via an activated ability.
Well, guess I need to RTFC then.
Does that really solve the problem? For a creature to become a copy of another creature doesn't it loose all abilities, irrespective of the source? Wouldn't you need to enchant him with Glistening Oil?
Phage costs 7 to copy, Dreadnaught costs 1.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
-Chandra Nalaar
However, since you're playing white, your removal dies to Force of Will, Counterspell, or Mana Drain *shrug*.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
There is still time to be disappointed yet!
Like I said--there is always an answer.
Not to Impervious Great Wurm. Or better yet, Lazav copying Impervious Great Wurm. #allthemanaz
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Yes, there is, if you have a 3 mana creature with persist and a 3 mana creature with Undying, and phyrexian Altar. Or you can have a Driver of the Dead and the altar, and if it works as i imagine (u targeting lazav cause the altar ability is a mana ability(and that don't work, would need 2 lazav))
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Standard, maybe, depends on what he has to work with, which is better than the last iteration which couldn't compete.
Modern, probably in a tier 8 modern deck someone will play for fun and still win matches and the fact someone can play some stupid deck and still win sometimes is what makes modern fun. I vaguely remember some Pack rat + training grounds deck you could slot this into.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Mairsil, the Pretender.
I'm mostly looking for a Modern combo, I don't play EDH or casual. I suppose you have more options for Legacy, but it's much harder to brew in Legacy.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Beyond this deck, I see 0 potential. Perhaps some combo deck involving binning Bogles to protect it but highly unlikely. Or you could play the Nyxathid deck and have big dumbies, but then you might as welll be playing Grixis Death's Shadow.
// 13 Creature
4 Pack Rat
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Dimir Guildmage
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 The Scarab God
// 4 Enchantment
4 Training Grounds
// 6 Instant
4 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
1 Cast Down
// 23 Land
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Liliana of the Veil
// 11 Sorcery
1 Collective Brutality
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Serum Visions
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Damping Sphere
2 Countersquall
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
2 Damnation
1 Thoughtseize
Could change the Serum Visions to Thoughtscour and the Scarab God to Lazav
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Put Vector Asp and Phyrexian Dreadnaught in your yard and he turns into an instant kill
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
This is flat out turning your graveyard into a collection of happy masks to wear as needed to be whatever you need whenever you need it. So low CMC utility creatures get repeated protective use, instead of being out your Invisible Stalker and needing to bin another one every time you need Hexproof.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
You keep saying that and I am left wondering if you actually read the dang card.
If you change it into Dreadnaught it no longer has infect.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
...which is why he mentioned Vector Asp, a creature that grants itself infect via an activated ability.
It really depends a lot more on what else is in the set and how the new standard meta turns out as far as how playable he is. I'd say he is a rather oddball Raise Dead that is vulnerable to removal, but on the upside there is at least a 1/3 blocker up to stop all turn 1 creature plays and a lot of turn 2 plays. Once people hit turn 3+ his value quickly shifts to the ability to just become whatever is in the graveyard. He's 100% built to be a surveil payoff just like how the green white two drop is the payoff for convoke.
Don't mind having some interesting stuff to work with in a limited / cube environment, but the money is in the eternal playable cards here and I'm still tapping my foot. If they don't put enough cards that are at the same level in the set, standard gets expensive because all the money gets concentrated in too few cards on the singles market. Case in point last season with The Scarab God, Hazoret the Fervent, Rekindling Phoenix, and for a time Rhonas the Indomitable. Before that it was Torrential Gearhulk.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, guess I need to RTFC then.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Does that really solve the problem? For a creature to become a copy of another creature doesn't it loose all abilities, irrespective of the source? Wouldn't you need to enchant him with Glistening Oil?