Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
Why would you want this in a rare spot? Diluting the number of good cards in a pack is the worst thing a company that lives on selling packs could do. It lowers the incentive for people to buy the product that you are selling.
A lot of rares are garbage. $2 is also worth more than most rares. You want it in the rare slot so you see it in draft less often, because it's useless in draft.
Also, you can argue whether or not it's a good system overall to have narrow and/or hate cards that are not limited playable in the rare rather than the uncommon slot. Personally, I think it would be fine if they were uncommons, but WOTC disagrees. But this thread is about why Narcomeba specifically was upshifted, not whether the policy as a whole is good or bad.
Then design a different card.
If its crap in draft, but too complex for uncommon... design something else
If its great in draft, but not at its previously printed rarity, while still being worthless, design something else
If its being reprinted to keep value low (really? The thing is like a dollar) then make it mesh with the set, if it doesnt... design something else
Theres really no way to slice this one that actually justifies the uptick in rarity, and its something we've seen in other sets, including masters sets.
We should, and are, demanding better. Its what the design team exists for. If they cant or wont design new things, and instead upshift rarities for various reasons... theyre not really doing their job and should quite honestly be ***** canned
A card being crap in draft is one of the reasons for making it rare. There are lots of cards that are ***** in draft and great in constructed. What rarity should these be printed at? You're literally mad because it got upshifted, not because of anything about the actual card. If this card would have been fine as a rare if it were a new card, why does it matter if it used to be an uncommon?
Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
Why would you want this in a rare spot? Diluting the number of good cards in a pack is the worst thing a company that lives on selling packs could do. It lowers the incentive for people to buy the product that you are selling.
A lot of rares are garbage. $2 is also worth more than most rares. You want it in the rare slot so you see it in draft less often, because it's useless in draft.
Also, you can argue whether or not it's a good system overall to have narrow and/or hate cards that are not limited playable in the rare rather than the uncommon slot. Personally, I think it would be fine if they were uncommons, but WOTC disagrees. But this thread is about why Narcomeba specifically was upshifted, not whether the policy as a whole is good or bad.
Then design a different card.
If its crap in draft, but too complex for uncommon... design something else
If its great in draft, but not at its previously printed rarity, while still being worthless, design something else
If its being reprinted to keep value low (really? The thing is like a dollar) then make it mesh with the set, if it doesnt... design something else
Theres really no way to slice this one that actually justifies the uptick in rarity, and its something we've seen in other sets, including masters sets.
We should, and are, demanding better. Its what the design team exists for. If they cant or wont design new things, and instead upshift rarities for various reasons... theyre not really doing their job and should quite honestly be ***** canned
A card being crap in draft is one of the reasons for making it rare. There are lots of cards that are ***** in draft and great in constructed. What rarity should these be printed at? You're literally mad because it got upshifted, not because of anything about the actual card. If this card would have been fine as a rare if it were a new card, why does it matter if it used to be an uncommon?
Hi, you missed the entire argument.
If it needed to be upshift not to break draft, design something else. If youre reprinting it just to jam it into standard but have to upshift it because its too complex or breaks limited... print something else.
It matters that it use to be uncommon because its worthless, and now im paying money to open it. The card i already have tons of because it was a lower rarity, now has the chance to eat my rare slot too. Is a crappy rare reprint the same thing? Well thats a different argument really. Do bad rares happen? Sure they cant all be gems. But the point remains that a crappy new rare is much better to open that an uncommon upshifted to rare... thats also crap.
The longer this argument goes on, the more I'm losing track of what's actually there to be mad about. I guess people are just preemptively getting angry at Narcomoeba being in the slot that "could've been a shockland" when cracking packs.
The longer this argument goes on, the more I'm losing track of what's actually there to be mad about. I guess people are just preemptively getting angry at Narcomoeba being in the slot that "could've been a shockland" when cracking packs.
Exactly what I was thinking. Many of these people must not remember playing against Narcomoeba when it was in standard. Seems like they think it's like a reprint of Bog Imp when it's more like Cloud of Faeries. Sure a 1/1 flier for 1U is a mediocre rate, but a 1/1 flier for free is entirely different.
The longer this argument goes on, the more I'm losing track of what's actually there to be mad about. I guess people are just preemptively getting angry at Narcomoeba being in the slot that "could've been a shockland" when cracking packs.
Exactly what I was thinking. Many of these people must not remember playing against Narcomoeba when it was in standard. Seems like they think it's like a reprint of Bog Imp when it's more like Cloud of Faeries. Sure a 1/1 flier for 1U is a mediocre rate, but a 1/1 flier for free is entirely different.
Well, it’s part of a graveyard combo deck in Legacy(or was) along with Dread Return.
I know a few people have said it’s bad in limited because it is just a 1/1 flier, but if there is any sort of sac. recursion like Victimize in this set(or the aforementioned dread return), it becomes a pretty neat tool to fuel that strategy. Combine that with Surveil, and you start adding consistency to a strategy like that in limited. The set hasn’t really given us anything to say that would be the case, but it certainly is something to think about.
As for Standard, depending on how powerful Surveil, or self milling in general will be, this becomes best friends with Whisper, Blood Liturgist. If this becomes a 4-of in any deck in standard, I could easily see this rise to a $3-$4 card, making it a good card to open value wise, and from a playability aspect. Looking at it this way, you can’t argue “print a different card with a similar effect” because then you’d be opening yourself up for potential problems in constructed formats where the aforementioned Victimize, Dread Return, etc. are legal by adding redundancy to a very rare effect.
All of that leads me to this point. If R&D determines that this card is a valuable tool for a particular archetype to be successful, put it in the set. I don’t care if it’s upshifted. Nobody should care that it’s upshifted, at least to the degree it seems people do here.
All of that leads me to this point. If R&D determines that this card is a valuable tool for a particular archetype to be successful, put it in the set. I don’t care if it’s upshifted. Nobody should care that it’s upshifted, at least to the degree it seems people do here.
The blind "trust" in WotC just leads to this kind of garbage fire.
They will keep doing rare upshifts if people share your opinion they will keep doing it over and over and over.
There are clearly people that dont care at all, about nothing, and guess what, you can sell these people literally everything, as they simply do not complain, they eat up anything, perfect stupid customer.
In all seriousness , if you do not like something you have to be loud and very clear, otherwise they simply wont hear it at all, or make up excuses, as we seen over and over and over again.
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If you tell someone that Narcomoeba is reprinted and its upshifted to rare the first reaction out of all people i told was "Oh really, why is it rare?".
There is no feasible reason its rare, its just for the sake of it, as any playable card for constructed seems to be upshifted to rare if possible at all ; at this point playing a deck that is not full of rares is the exception and not the rule.
If this would be an uncommon we had a decent and reasonable valuable uncommon, everyone is happy.
But WotC does not want to have happy customers, its rule #1 ensure that players are just "barely" accepting your product , they do not even try anymore ... and people that just blindly accept anything are the reason they can get away with this crap.
All of that leads me to this point. If R&D determines that this card is a valuable tool for a particular archetype to be successful, put it in the set. I don’t care if it’s upshifted. Nobody should care that it’s upshifted, at least to the degree it seems people do here.
The blind "trust" in WotC just leads to this kind of garbage fire.
They will keep doing rare upshifts if people share your opinion they will keep doing it over and over and over.
There are clearly people that dont care at all, about nothing, and guess what, you can sell these people literally everything, as they simply do not complain, they eat up anything, perfect stupid customer.
In all seriousness , if you do not like something you have to be loud and very clear, otherwise they simply wont hear it at all, or make up excuses, as we seen over and over and over again.
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If you tell someone that Narcomoeba is reprinted and its upshifted to rare the first reaction out of all people i told was "Oh really, why is it rare?".
There is no feasible reason its rare, its just for the sake of it, as any playable card for constructed seems to be upshifted to rare if possible at all ; at this point playing a deck that is not full of rares is the exception and not the rule.
If this would be an uncommon we had a decent and reasonable valuable uncommon, everyone is happy.
But WotC does not want to have happy customers, its rule #1 ensure that players are just "barely" accepting your product , they do not even try anymore ... and people that just blindly accept anything are the reason they can get away with this crap.
Why are you so angry? Just because someone thinks Narcomoeba at rare is perfectly fine, doesn't mean they agree with every decision WOTC makes. Your hyperbolic statements make your arguments seem shaky, at best.
If surveil turns out to be all over the place in limited, having multiple Narcomoeba in limited could be considered gamebreaking. You're playing limited and your opponent has a surveil two card on turn two or three, see 2 Narcomoeba in addition to the effect of the card, and get them for free. You are now incredibly far behind--potentially a game state you cannot come back from depending on your deck--for free. 0 mana cost to do that. You're playing heavy green and didn't get much removal in your support colors. Good luck with all the free fliers. That's a very possible situation. Print it at rare, much less likely to happen. Seems to be a rather reasonable solution to me.
After observing multiple discussions on this topic, I think it's mostly just a psychological thing. Now, maybe set design has changed since I read all of those articles on the mothership years ago, but much of set design is based around the filling of niches. One team orders a certain card of X color of Y rarity and Z function, and another team designs to meet that need. If a preexisting card that meets that niche exists, then a reprint is considered. Therefore, I posit that the alternative to a reprint is a card that fills the same niche. Monetary value is irrelevant to the discussion because expensive rarity upshifts get called cashgrabs and cheap upshifts get complaints for being cheap. Power and playability are also irrelevant because, again, niche filling. If the alternative to a rarity upshift is a card that this functionally very similar, then there is nothing lost or gained from the choice. There's just something about the idea of a card previously appearing at a lower rarity that enrages some people.
Actually, I didn't really expect this level of furor over Narcomoeba. Aven Mindcensor got upshifted, and people basically just shrugged. Heck, being an uncommon in Future Sight doesn't amount to much given that 1.) current sets have much higher print rates, depressing the value of all but the most expensive cards and 2.) Time Spiral block had tons of commons and uncommons that just wouldn't fly under NWO. The implications of NWO are, of course, a conversation in and of themselves.
I think the average player or even the average new player would much prefer to open an Aven Mindcensor as their rare than a Narcomoeba. It's more exciting. Useful in a wider variety of decks.
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Why are you so angry? Just because someone thinks Narcomoeba at rare is perfectly fine, doesn't mean they agree with every decision WOTC makes. Your hyperbolic statements make your arguments seem shaky, at best.
I have an opinion. Anger is something entirely different.
If surveil turns out to be all over the place in limited, having multiple Narcomoeba in limited could be considered gamebreaking. You're playing limited and your opponent has a surveil two card on turn two or three, see 2 Narcomoeba in addition to the effect of the card, and get them for free. You are now incredibly far behind--potentially a game state you cannot come back from depending on your deck--for free. 0 mana cost to do that. You're playing heavy green and didn't get much removal in your support colors. Good luck with all the free fliers. That's a very possible situation. Print it at rare, much less likely to happen. Seems to be a rather reasonable solution to me.
You have to first understand that an uncommon does NOT mean you get one in every booster.
With 8 person drafting a set you still just barely get 2 copies of the same uncommon, rarely more, and more often than not, it will not have the uncommon at all in the packs.
So its extremely overrating that a person will even have 2+ if they are uncommons.
But making them uncommon does support the mechanic Surveil, it provides a pay-off , something to build around, just like all the traditional uncommon level cards they print that do exactly that, providing a pay-off to build around in limited formats.
With it at rare you will not see one in lots of drafts at all, and if you do, its an extremely unexciting rare to begin with, Feel bad moments all over the place (as an uncommon that would not be the case).
And then most importantly, even IF a player has 2+ of them in a deck and is stacked in Surveil cards (which only look at like ~2 cards at max, if they stick with what Scry provides) , the chances you will hit 2 Narcomoeba early is astronomical bad, theres no way in this reality that this would break any kind of limited format in any way, as no matter what, even if you are the luckiest person on the planet, its still just a 1/1 flyer you get.
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That all said, a lot of people will just ignore the card and maybe just become annoyed if they open it.
But the real deal is the trend that WotC is going, with big upsets like Tree of Redemption, and smaller rarity upshifts that fall under the radar of most players, but still are just 100% feel bad moments, something that WotC should and normally wants to avoid at all cost to make the product more appealing and actually worth to buy.
And the people that care for this rarity upshifts and downright hate them, are actually reason enough to simply not do it at all, at it costs you absolutely nothing to simply not do that, as its maximum lazy to reprint a card at a higher rarity (even more so if it has the same artwork, at the "very" least this card got a new artwork).
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I dont want to be angry at them in every set to see a card get rarity upshifted just because it became "normal" to do so.
They should get a clear and loud feedback to stop it as soon as possible and not when its too late and becomes even more extreme.
I mean, just imagine they would include 10+ former uncommons, upshifted to rare and call it "done".
At what point would you start to care for that ? Not at all ? Never ? Or is there an actual number you feel would be too much.
For a lot of people that number is 1, thats already too many.
I think the average player or even the average new player would much prefer to open an Aven Mindcensor as their rare than a Narcomoeba. It's more exciting. Useful in a wider variety of decks.
My experience with teaching new players during Amonkhet is that they don't want any small fliers, so the difference between the two cards in that sense is negligible. Also, seeing as Aven Mindcensor was not played by nearly anyone during its reprint in standard, we're probably going to have to compare these two cards once GRN is spoiled.
As for experienced players, Narcomoeba has a history of being an incredibly strong card. Wait to see what synergies it gets, then we can see where this comparison lands. Narcomoeba always finds a way.
I also think Narcomoeba isn't the same thing as a normal upshift in rarity. Future Sight was a peculiar set for many reasons, and judging card rarities based on it are sometimes nonsensical. Force of Savagery was a rare, but I'd much rather have opened a Narcomoeba as a rare than Force of Savagery. Were you happy to open Gibbering Descent as a rare? Then look at Aether Revolt. I was just coming back into MtG after a seven-year hiatus shortly after Amonkhet came out. When I was getting cards from Aether Revolt, every pack I opened in the beginning, I only wanted Fatal Push, I didn't care about 99% of the rares. A card's rarity has never really been about power or value. In most cases, it is about the complexity or the narrowness of a card and its effects. Hosers are sometimes rare, because they shouldn't be everywhere in a limited environment. In Magic's earliest days that wasn't always the case and I remember some sealed matches feeling pretty awful sitting across from an opponent with multiple Boils. Fatal Push was worth more than most rares. I think rarity outside of limited environments is often over-cared about. In limited environments, rarities can really mess up the format. In constructed not so much. Sure some planeswalkers reach exorbitant heights, but thats often due to rarity COMBINED with their power level. Jace, Cunning Castaway vs. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. The most valuable card in the pack won't always be a rare, and the overall value of your pack should be more what you care about as a consumer, not the color of ink on a minuscule logo.
The longer this argument goes on, the more I'm losing track of what's actually there to be mad about. I guess people are just preemptively getting angry at Narcomoeba being in the slot that "could've been a shockland" when cracking packs.
Nah, i m mad cause this card would be great at uncommon (for limited) as a rare it is just a filler card.
As for experienced players, Narcomoeba has a history of being an incredibly strong card. Wait to see what synergies it gets, then we can see where this comparison lands. Narcomoeba always finds a way.
Nercomoeba is a pretty terrible card, unless you can realiable abuse it, and even then, you only really want that card in the most extreme decks that abuse it imaginable (aka self-mill decks that just "auto-win" with it being a combo piece for bridge and dread return, but in this case, Narcomoeba isnt the "broken" piece, the entire deck is build of broken mechanics).
I also think Narcomoeba isn't the same thing as a normal upshift in rarity. Future Sight was a peculiar set for many reasons, and judging card rarities based on it are sometimes nonsensical. Force of Savagery was a rare, but I'd much rather have opened a Narcomoeba as a rare than Force of Savagery. Were you happy to open Gibbering Descent as a rare? Then look at Aether Revolt. I was just coming back into MtG after a seven-year hiatus shortly after Amonkhet came out. When I was getting cards from Aether Revolt, every pack I opened in the beginning, I only wanted Fatal Push, I didn't care about 99% of the rares. A card's rarity has never really been about power or value. In most cases, it is about the complexity or the narrowness of a card and its effects. Hosers are sometimes rare, because they shouldn't be everywhere in a limited environment. In Magic's earliest days that wasn't always the case and I remember some sealed matches feeling pretty awful sitting across from an opponent with multiple Boils. Fatal Push was worth more than most rares. I think rarity outside of limited environments is often over-cared about. In limited environments, rarities can really mess up the format. In constructed not so much. Sure some planeswalkers reach exorbitant heights, but thats often due to rarity COMBINED with their power level. Jace, Cunning Castaway vs. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. The most valuable card in the pack won't always be a rare, and the overall value of your pack should be more what you care about as a consumer, not the color of ink on a minuscule logo.
I dont really see your point here.
A terrible rare is a terrible rare, no matter what, nobody wants to open the card, but there are clearly cards that work better at rare as they are pretty much unplayable in limited, and printing such cards are common would just flood the booster packs.
The point is, Narcomoeba should never ever be a rare, as it has a very real purpose in limited, which is best served at uncommon level. Thats the rarity it absolutely should be, which would make everyone happy, while this upshift is just a slap in the face and some people clearly dont even mind to be slapped repeatedly in the face over and over again, they are so used to it.
The rare exceptions when upshifting a rarity is "legit" are cards that are so old (aka Force of Will) and carry a substantial amount of value that printing it in a new set makes sense for everyone involved (and its fine for everyone too, and thats also the best course of action for these special cases).
But here WotC is doing that over and over, people always hate it, and they just dont care at all and the justifications of doing the rarity upshift are downright insultingly bad.
Simply said, if you have to rarity upshift a card to justify its reprint you need VERY VERY good reasons to do so, otherwise people will be upset, and thats an entirely avoidable problem in the first place, they choose to do that, they knowingly upset people (and at the same time lower the expected value of the entire set by doing that, which is just another nail in the coffin and entirely avoidable).
Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
This isn't a starter/core set. "Do something if this is put into your graveyard from your library" isn't too complex for uncommon - Gaea's Blessing was literally just reprinted as an uncommon in the last non-core set.
It also probably isn't garbage in a limited environment with the surveil mechanic. Kind of would have been perfect, actually, if you could draft multiple of these in your blue/black surveil deck and try to "go off" - certainly not busted in limited, but something worth trying for. The kind of card that actually could be neat with multiples, but sorta pointless if you only have one. So, yeah, not great for the rare slot.
As for experienced players, Narcomoeba has a history of being an incredibly strong card. Wait to see what synergies it gets, then we can see where this comparison lands. Narcomoeba always finds a way.
Nercomoeba is a pretty terrible card, unless you can realiable abuse it, and even then, you only really want that card in the most extreme decks that abuse it imaginable (aka self-mill decks that just "auto-win" with it being a combo piece for bridge and dread return, but in this case, Narcomoeba isnt the "broken" piece, the entire deck is build of broken mechanics).
I also think Narcomoeba isn't the same thing as a normal upshift in rarity. Future Sight was a peculiar set for many reasons, and judging card rarities based on it are sometimes nonsensical. Force of Savagery was a rare, but I'd much rather have opened a Narcomoeba as a rare than Force of Savagery. Were you happy to open Gibbering Descent as a rare? Then look at Aether Revolt. I was just coming back into MtG after a seven-year hiatus shortly after Amonkhet came out. When I was getting cards from Aether Revolt, every pack I opened in the beginning, I only wanted Fatal Push, I didn't care about 99% of the rares. A card's rarity has never really been about power or value. In most cases, it is about the complexity or the narrowness of a card and its effects. Hosers are sometimes rare, because they shouldn't be everywhere in a limited environment. In Magic's earliest days that wasn't always the case and I remember some sealed matches feeling pretty awful sitting across from an opponent with multiple Boils. Fatal Push was worth more than most rares. I think rarity outside of limited environments is often over-cared about. In limited environments, rarities can really mess up the format. In constructed not so much. Sure some planeswalkers reach exorbitant heights, but thats often due to rarity COMBINED with their power level. Jace, Cunning Castaway vs. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. The most valuable card in the pack won't always be a rare, and the overall value of your pack should be more what you care about as a consumer, not the color of ink on a minuscule logo.
I dont really see your point here.
A terrible rare is a terrible rare, no matter what, nobody wants to open the card, but there are clearly cards that work better at rare as they are pretty much unplayable in limited, and printing such cards are common would just flood the booster packs.
The point is, Narcomoeba should never ever be a rare, as it has a very real purpose in limited, which is best served at uncommon level. Thats the rarity it absolutely should be, which would make everyone happy, while this upshift is just a slap in the face and some people clearly dont even mind to be slapped repeatedly in the face over and over again, they are so used to it.
The rare exceptions when upshifting a rarity is "legit" are cards that are so old (aka Force of Will) and carry a substantial amount of value that printing it in a new set makes sense for everyone involved (and its fine for everyone too, and thats also the best course of action for these special cases).
But here WotC is doing that over and over, people always hate it, and they just dont care at all and the justifications of doing the rarity upshift are downright insultingly bad.
Simply said, if you have to rarity upshift a card to justify its reprint you need VERY VERY good reasons to do so, otherwise people will be upset, and thats an entirely avoidable problem in the first place, they choose to do that, they knowingly upset people (and at the same time lower the expected value of the entire set by doing that, which is just another nail in the coffin and entirely avoidable).
We're just going to have to disagree, here. Your responses are soaked in self-serving hyperbole, so we will most likely never see eye-to-eye. I have no problem with this upshift. You respond as though you speak for everyone. You're fine with FoW being upshifted for a very unusual reason, and you also seem to just pick and choose what you think is allowable to be upshifted, even though you seem so against upshifting at a fundamental level.
The rare exceptions when upshifting a rarity is "legit" are cards that are so old (aka Force of Will) and carry a substantial amount of value that printing it in a new set makes sense for everyone involved (and its fine for everyone too, and thats also the best course of action for these special cases).
Force of Will was not a card that needed a upward rarity shift either. It's not mythic in the least, unless you're WotC and think the pricemakessomethingmythic.
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A card being crap in draft is one of the reasons for making it rare. There are lots of cards that are ***** in draft and great in constructed. What rarity should these be printed at? You're literally mad because it got upshifted, not because of anything about the actual card. If this card would have been fine as a rare if it were a new card, why does it matter if it used to be an uncommon?
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Hi, you missed the entire argument.
If it needed to be upshift not to break draft, design something else. If youre reprinting it just to jam it into standard but have to upshift it because its too complex or breaks limited... print something else.
It matters that it use to be uncommon because its worthless, and now im paying money to open it. The card i already have tons of because it was a lower rarity, now has the chance to eat my rare slot too. Is a crappy rare reprint the same thing? Well thats a different argument really. Do bad rares happen? Sure they cant all be gems. But the point remains that a crappy new rare is much better to open that an uncommon upshifted to rare... thats also crap.
Design something else.
If it sees standard play, you’ve opened a playable rare, regardless of price.
Who. Cares. Most of you have gone on record stating that you don’t play standard/don’t draft/don’t buy packs anyways, so again, who cares?
I hope they reprint 1 card in each set going forward that gets upshifted. Just to get a good chuckle at this “outrage”.
If thats the straw you hold yourself on, then all hope is lost ...
Expect better from WotC , if you stop expecting better they deliver just the kind of crap that people simply "learned" to accept.
NO , JUST NO.
This is terrible and they should no do that crap.
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The longer this argument goes on, the more I'm losing track of what's actually there to be mad about. I guess people are just preemptively getting angry at Narcomoeba being in the slot that "could've been a shockland" when cracking packs.
Exactly what I was thinking. Many of these people must not remember playing against Narcomoeba when it was in standard. Seems like they think it's like a reprint of Bog Imp when it's more like Cloud of Faeries. Sure a 1/1 flier for 1U is a mediocre rate, but a 1/1 flier for free is entirely different.
Well, it’s part of a graveyard combo deck in Legacy(or was) along with Dread Return.
I know a few people have said it’s bad in limited because it is just a 1/1 flier, but if there is any sort of sac. recursion like Victimize in this set(or the aforementioned dread return), it becomes a pretty neat tool to fuel that strategy. Combine that with Surveil, and you start adding consistency to a strategy like that in limited. The set hasn’t really given us anything to say that would be the case, but it certainly is something to think about.
As for Standard, depending on how powerful Surveil, or self milling in general will be, this becomes best friends with Whisper, Blood Liturgist. If this becomes a 4-of in any deck in standard, I could easily see this rise to a $3-$4 card, making it a good card to open value wise, and from a playability aspect. Looking at it this way, you can’t argue “print a different card with a similar effect” because then you’d be opening yourself up for potential problems in constructed formats where the aforementioned Victimize, Dread Return, etc. are legal by adding redundancy to a very rare effect.
All of that leads me to this point. If R&D determines that this card is a valuable tool for a particular archetype to be successful, put it in the set. I don’t care if it’s upshifted. Nobody should care that it’s upshifted, at least to the degree it seems people do here.
The blind "trust" in WotC just leads to this kind of garbage fire.
They will keep doing rare upshifts if people share your opinion they will keep doing it over and over and over.
There are clearly people that dont care at all, about nothing, and guess what, you can sell these people literally everything, as they simply do not complain, they eat up anything, perfect stupid customer.
In all seriousness , if you do not like something you have to be loud and very clear, otherwise they simply wont hear it at all, or make up excuses, as we seen over and over and over again.
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If you tell someone that Narcomoeba is reprinted and its upshifted to rare the first reaction out of all people i told was "Oh really, why is it rare?".
There is no feasible reason its rare, its just for the sake of it, as any playable card for constructed seems to be upshifted to rare if possible at all ; at this point playing a deck that is not full of rares is the exception and not the rule.
If this would be an uncommon we had a decent and reasonable valuable uncommon, everyone is happy.
But WotC does not want to have happy customers, its rule #1 ensure that players are just "barely" accepting your product , they do not even try anymore ... and people that just blindly accept anything are the reason they can get away with this crap.
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Yeah, you should probably just stop talking at this point.
Why are you so angry? Just because someone thinks Narcomoeba at rare is perfectly fine, doesn't mean they agree with every decision WOTC makes. Your hyperbolic statements make your arguments seem shaky, at best.
If surveil turns out to be all over the place in limited, having multiple Narcomoeba in limited could be considered gamebreaking. You're playing limited and your opponent has a surveil two card on turn two or three, see 2 Narcomoeba in addition to the effect of the card, and get them for free. You are now incredibly far behind--potentially a game state you cannot come back from depending on your deck--for free. 0 mana cost to do that. You're playing heavy green and didn't get much removal in your support colors. Good luck with all the free fliers. That's a very possible situation. Print it at rare, much less likely to happen. Seems to be a rather reasonable solution to me.
Actually, I didn't really expect this level of furor over Narcomoeba. Aven Mindcensor got upshifted, and people basically just shrugged. Heck, being an uncommon in Future Sight doesn't amount to much given that 1.) current sets have much higher print rates, depressing the value of all but the most expensive cards and 2.) Time Spiral block had tons of commons and uncommons that just wouldn't fly under NWO. The implications of NWO are, of course, a conversation in and of themselves.
I have an opinion. Anger is something entirely different.
You have to first understand that an uncommon does NOT mean you get one in every booster.
With 8 person drafting a set you still just barely get 2 copies of the same uncommon, rarely more, and more often than not, it will not have the uncommon at all in the packs.
So its extremely overrating that a person will even have 2+ if they are uncommons.
But making them uncommon does support the mechanic Surveil, it provides a pay-off , something to build around, just like all the traditional uncommon level cards they print that do exactly that, providing a pay-off to build around in limited formats.
With it at rare you will not see one in lots of drafts at all, and if you do, its an extremely unexciting rare to begin with, Feel bad moments all over the place (as an uncommon that would not be the case).
And then most importantly, even IF a player has 2+ of them in a deck and is stacked in Surveil cards (which only look at like ~2 cards at max, if they stick with what Scry provides) , the chances you will hit 2 Narcomoeba early is astronomical bad, theres no way in this reality that this would break any kind of limited format in any way, as no matter what, even if you are the luckiest person on the planet, its still just a 1/1 flyer you get.
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That all said, a lot of people will just ignore the card and maybe just become annoyed if they open it.
But the real deal is the trend that WotC is going, with big upsets like Tree of Redemption, and smaller rarity upshifts that fall under the radar of most players, but still are just 100% feel bad moments, something that WotC should and normally wants to avoid at all cost to make the product more appealing and actually worth to buy.
And the people that care for this rarity upshifts and downright hate them, are actually reason enough to simply not do it at all, at it costs you absolutely nothing to simply not do that, as its maximum lazy to reprint a card at a higher rarity (even more so if it has the same artwork, at the "very" least this card got a new artwork).
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I dont want to be angry at them in every set to see a card get rarity upshifted just because it became "normal" to do so.
They should get a clear and loud feedback to stop it as soon as possible and not when its too late and becomes even more extreme.
I mean, just imagine they would include 10+ former uncommons, upshifted to rare and call it "done".
At what point would you start to care for that ? Not at all ? Never ? Or is there an actual number you feel would be too much.
For a lot of people that number is 1, thats already too many.
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My experience with teaching new players during Amonkhet is that they don't want any small fliers, so the difference between the two cards in that sense is negligible. Also, seeing as Aven Mindcensor was not played by nearly anyone during its reprint in standard, we're probably going to have to compare these two cards once GRN is spoiled.
As for experienced players, Narcomoeba has a history of being an incredibly strong card. Wait to see what synergies it gets, then we can see where this comparison lands. Narcomoeba always finds a way.
I also think Narcomoeba isn't the same thing as a normal upshift in rarity. Future Sight was a peculiar set for many reasons, and judging card rarities based on it are sometimes nonsensical. Force of Savagery was a rare, but I'd much rather have opened a Narcomoeba as a rare than Force of Savagery. Were you happy to open Gibbering Descent as a rare? Then look at Aether Revolt. I was just coming back into MtG after a seven-year hiatus shortly after Amonkhet came out. When I was getting cards from Aether Revolt, every pack I opened in the beginning, I only wanted Fatal Push, I didn't care about 99% of the rares. A card's rarity has never really been about power or value. In most cases, it is about the complexity or the narrowness of a card and its effects. Hosers are sometimes rare, because they shouldn't be everywhere in a limited environment. In Magic's earliest days that wasn't always the case and I remember some sealed matches feeling pretty awful sitting across from an opponent with multiple Boils. Fatal Push was worth more than most rares. I think rarity outside of limited environments is often over-cared about. In limited environments, rarities can really mess up the format. In constructed not so much. Sure some planeswalkers reach exorbitant heights, but thats often due to rarity COMBINED with their power level. Jace, Cunning Castaway vs. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. The most valuable card in the pack won't always be a rare, and the overall value of your pack should be more what you care about as a consumer, not the color of ink on a minuscule logo.
Nah, i m mad cause this card would be great at uncommon (for limited) as a rare it is just a filler card.
Nercomoeba is a pretty terrible card, unless you can realiable abuse it, and even then, you only really want that card in the most extreme decks that abuse it imaginable (aka self-mill decks that just "auto-win" with it being a combo piece for bridge and dread return, but in this case, Narcomoeba isnt the "broken" piece, the entire deck is build of broken mechanics).
I dont really see your point here.
A terrible rare is a terrible rare, no matter what, nobody wants to open the card, but there are clearly cards that work better at rare as they are pretty much unplayable in limited, and printing such cards are common would just flood the booster packs.
The point is, Narcomoeba should never ever be a rare, as it has a very real purpose in limited, which is best served at uncommon level. Thats the rarity it absolutely should be, which would make everyone happy, while this upshift is just a slap in the face and some people clearly dont even mind to be slapped repeatedly in the face over and over again, they are so used to it.
The rare exceptions when upshifting a rarity is "legit" are cards that are so old (aka Force of Will) and carry a substantial amount of value that printing it in a new set makes sense for everyone involved (and its fine for everyone too, and thats also the best course of action for these special cases).
But here WotC is doing that over and over, people always hate it, and they just dont care at all and the justifications of doing the rarity upshift are downright insultingly bad.
Simply said, if you have to rarity upshift a card to justify its reprint you need VERY VERY good reasons to do so, otherwise people will be upset, and thats an entirely avoidable problem in the first place, they choose to do that, they knowingly upset people (and at the same time lower the expected value of the entire set by doing that, which is just another nail in the coffin and entirely avoidable).
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This isn't a starter/core set. "Do something if this is put into your graveyard from your library" isn't too complex for uncommon - Gaea's Blessing was literally just reprinted as an uncommon in the last non-core set.
It also probably isn't garbage in a limited environment with the surveil mechanic. Kind of would have been perfect, actually, if you could draft multiple of these in your blue/black surveil deck and try to "go off" - certainly not busted in limited, but something worth trying for. The kind of card that actually could be neat with multiples, but sorta pointless if you only have one. So, yeah, not great for the rare slot.
We're just going to have to disagree, here. Your responses are soaked in self-serving hyperbole, so we will most likely never see eye-to-eye. I have no problem with this upshift. You respond as though you speak for everyone. You're fine with FoW being upshifted for a very unusual reason, and you also seem to just pick and choose what you think is allowable to be upshifted, even though you seem so against upshifting at a fundamental level.
Force of Will was not a card that needed a upward rarity shift either. It's not mythic in the least, unless you're WotC and think the price makes something mythic.