My first thought was Dimir mill, way back when it premiered. But I didn't know if it would be in Ravnica or an actual graveyard block. (I wondered in Innistrad, especially since illusion tribal was a thing in M12.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I suspect anyone defending this upshift is a wotc plant. Seriously.
lmao. I'm not exactly trying to "defend" this upshift, I'm just trying to understand why they upshifted it rather than being all emotional about it and going "Uncommon to Rare? TERRIBLE! WotC bad!"
The main complaints about this card seem to be
1) "I could open it more often in boosters before, but they made it rarer. They are being greedy." -> As others have pointed out, the card isn't expensive on the secondary market atm. This argument is pretty much invalid.
2) "It's not an exciting rare, they wasted a slot for this." -> I can kind of understand this sentiment, but then again the 'loss' perceived here is largely imaginary. Sure, maybe this slot could've held the next Abrupt Decay … but it also could've been the next Search the City. There's no guarantee that it wouldn't have been an unexciting rare anyway. Now you might say that you'd rather see a new card, even if it's a crap rare, than an upshifted Uncommon. This too I can understand, but I think it's a matter of preference. Especially from a constructed standpoint, I can see some players being intrigued by the reprint of a card whose playability has already been "proven" in other formats, especially since GRN could provide some other pieces to make a deck with Narcomoeba work in Standard.
imho WotC made this a rare because they felt like it was a bad card (even when you get it for free) in Limited, and they didn't want it to take up too much space at the lower rarities. At the same time, should a competitive deck with a large selfmill component emerge in the upcoming Standard, this suddenly makes the jump from a "disappointing rare to open" to at least an "OK rare", i.e. a card with at least some modicum of playability even if you're not that excited about opening it (Aven Mindcensor is another good example of a similar case, as another poster pointed out). I agree that upshifts, especially Uncommon to Rare or Rare to Mythic ones are inherently feel-bad, but I also think you have to remember thay WotC isn't solely doing this in order to rip people off.
We barely have spoilers, but I can not imagine that it is very good in limited. Worst case you get stuck with a 1/1 flyer for 2 in your hand, that sucks. Best case is that you jump through hoops to get a 1/1 flyer. If anything, they might have made it a rare to avoid it being a huge trap in limited. Not sure if I think that this is justification, but it´s something to consider.
Think of it this way: There will be crap rares. They are in every single set, and there are lots of them. This will not change. Complaining about it does nothing. At least this thing is actually playable in a few decks. I don´t see any reason for a huge outcry about the upshift, it really doesn´t matter that it retains a value of a dollar, and it´s not a "wasted slot" because this slot would probably be a mediocre to bad rare anyway.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
It's an eternal format card. Sure they're not very expensive, but try actually getting them without ordering online. The shipping always inflates the price of whatever you're buying. Noone wants them in draft, sure, it's not first pick material, but there WILL be folks trading for them after every draft. Also, I've played with Basking Rootwalla back in Oddysey. Doesn't matter how puny-looking a creature is if it can turn Surveil into more than "draw a card", like Rootwalla did for looting/discard. I mean, if you surveil this thing you've got a 1/1 flier you paid nothing for, and I won plenty of M19 draft matches with the "3 mana 1/1 draw a card" artifact critter boosted with that +2/+0 axe. Folks tended to snap the little buggers up fast, too.
Also, this time around it'll be in standard with Search of Azcanta and a mechanic it is very sinergistic with. Folks will want to open shocklands, sure, but the set will be loaded with crap rares, too, and this isn't half bad.
"Masques Block is the worst block ever! There's not one decent card in there! The whole internet say's so, you're literally the only person who ever said it was good!" - random noob in a conversation with an Eldrazi.
"Doesn't drive you to buy packs" guess what, you shouldn't buy packs just to crack them anywya.
This is the problem with how things have gone. Wizards should try to make cards that are good enough to make people open packs.
That said, it's a tough balancing act and creates design issues. Can't just shove expdeitions/inventions/etc in every set.
That said, upticking rarity certainly won't help.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
They upshift them so you dont have extra's floating around in an uncommon spot. 1 isn't good but imagine 5-6 of these in a draft.
But i agree, its terrible as a rare and definitely doesn't draw me in to buy packs.
Five or six? Opening up a box I couldn't imagine opening up more than two, at least with my experiences getting uncommons from boxes. No way a draft has that many.
They upshift them so you dont have extra's floating around in an uncommon spot. 1 isn't good but imagine 5-6 of these in a draft.
But i agree, its terrible as a rare and definitely doesn't draw me in to buy packs.
Five or six? Opening up a box I couldn't imagine opening up more than two, at least with my experiences getting uncommons from boxes. No way a draft has that many.
from my experience u can open up to 5 of the same uncommon on old boxes, and 4 in the new ones (generaly). In a M19 draft i picked 3 Millstones and let one pass for exemple. A deck with 4 1/1 flyers that can be casted for free if u have luck is not as gamebreaking as a card that let u pick other copies of it in your deck as a common imo or a card that whenever u do something you make a token...
but ye, if having 3 narcomoeba in your deck is game breaking, then your limited/draft evroment is kinda lame
Weird. Shouldn't Narcomoeba be from Iquatana? What are they doing in Ravnica? Who brought them there? Jace?
They may exist in Iquatana but this doesn't mean they are not present in other planes.
If the Iquati created them, it's not like they are a "natural species". As such, I wonder what are they doing in Ravnica and who brought them there, or if it is a flavour fail. I know it's a minor discussion considering all the rare-shift stuff, but still intriguing.
Memnarch created the Myr and we see some of them in other places/futures/dimentions. Nah, it is just coincidence. Like Ornithopters and sometimes other artifact creatures really similar being created in diferent planes at the same time.
If the Iquati created them, it's not like they are a "natural species". As such, I wonder what are they doing in Ravnica and who brought them there, or if it is a flavour fail. I know it's a minor discussion considering all the rare-shift stuff, but still intriguing.
I doubt they came up with a "deep" reason in the lore for why they are on Ravnica (like "a planeswalker brought them there" or something), although the idea of species from other planes introduced by walkers is a cool idea. But Narcomoebae are also not likely to come up in the story, so it's one of these cases where you're basically free to make up your own headcanon. Reading the flavor text, Narcomoebae on Ravnica seem to be dreams given form rather than the memories of some ancient civilization. "Narco" means "sleep" and "-moeba" obviously comes from amoeba, meaning "change, alteration", so the name itself is kind of general. Maybe they're slighly different members of the same taxon? Maybe the Iquatanan Narcomoebae were once the same as the Ravnican ones, but were then altered by the Iquati to be living memories instead of dreams?
Damn, now I wan to write about a Planeswalker biologist researching this creature…
Obviously the upshift in rarity is not a good thing. Narcomoebas are underwhelming pretty much everywhere except in overpowered applications like dredge. It's cool that there's new synergies with surveil and expected cards like Mulch from the Golgari guild but I will still be disappointed to open this as my rare every time.
That being said, If there's a decent Buried Alive effect, they could be pretty playable.
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Protection from reason (Decadent_Creed can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by reason.)
That being said, it's no worse than any of the other draft chaff rares that comprise the majority of what you open. It's a combo piece, not an overcosted finisher, but I don't see that as a particular problem, given that it should have at least one application in a Standard environment.
If the Iquati created them, it's not like they are a "natural species". As such, I wonder what are they doing in Ravnica and who brought them there, or if it is a flavour fail. I know it's a minor discussion considering all the rare-shift stuff, but still intriguing.
They are illusions - I see no reason why stray illusions wouldn't be roaming around Ravnica.
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Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
That being said, it's no worse than any of the other draft chaff rares that comprise the majority of what you open. It's a combo piece, not an overcosted finisher, but I don't see that as a particular problem, given that it should have at least one application in a Standard environment.
Haha, what? This card is so much worse than reassembling skeleton, which wasn't exactly a limited all star anyway.
Guys. Sheesh. It's a rare because of its complexity. It's not to preserve its secondary market $2 price. It's not because it would be a broken uncommon (you open, what, like ~1.2 of each uncommon for draft? So even if you're way outside the bell curve, 4 might be opened?). Even if you are in magic Christmas land, you get all 4 and 4 are in your deck, in an average game you flip less than 1 with surveil. OH MY GOD! A free 1/1 flyer. Guaranteed win. More broken that packrat.
Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
Why would you want this in a rare spot? Diluting the number of good cards in a pack is the worst thing a company that lives on selling packs could do. It lowers the incentive for people to buy the product that you are selling.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
Why would you want this in a rare spot? Diluting the number of good cards in a pack is the worst thing a company that lives on selling packs could do. It lowers the incentive for people to buy the product that you are selling.
A lot of rares are garbage. $2 is also worth more than most rares. You want it in the rare slot so you see it in draft less often, because it's useless in draft.
Also, you can argue whether or not it's a good system overall to have narrow and/or hate cards that are not limited playable in the rare rather than the uncommon slot. Personally, I think it would be fine if they were uncommons, but WOTC disagrees. But this thread is about why Narcomeba specifically was upshifted, not whether the policy as a whole is good or bad.
Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
Why would you want this in a rare spot? Diluting the number of good cards in a pack is the worst thing a company that lives on selling packs could do. It lowers the incentive for people to buy the product that you are selling.
That being said, it's no worse than any of the other draft chaff rares that comprise the majority of what you open. It's a combo piece, not an overcosted finisher, but I don't see that as a particular problem, given that it should have at least one application in a Standard environment.
I feel like this card is in the rare slot for two legit reasons:
1. It is a complex card, and yea, it should never have been an uncommon.
2. In order to sell more packs, WotC need to put bad cards in the rare slot. Why? Because they want us to open boosters until we get those nice shocklands! Remember: in the end, the house always wins, wherever you like it or not.
I'm not necessary agree with this reprint, it could have been a way cooler card, but I understand why it's a rare.
I feel like this card is in the rare slot for two legit reasons:
1. It is a complex card, and yea, it should never have been an uncommon.
2. In order to sell more packs, WotC need to put bad cards in the rare slot. Why? Because they want us to open boosters until we get those nice shocklands! Remember: in the end, the house always wins, wherever you like it or not.
I'm not necessary agree with this reprint, it could have been a way cooler card, but I understand why it's a rare.
The card is fairly simple on its own. Other mechanics might produce more complex interactions, but the card as it is, super trivial, as it literally does what is written on it, no extra special secret hidden rules required at all.
Most importantly, its very intuitive too on how it works.
The cards neither powerful nor interesting as a rare.
It does everything you want from an uncommon. It interacts very well with specific mechanics in the set and provides value to these mechanics, so you WANT to have some of them in a draft, and being rare means its a low impact card, that people will simply never be exited about.
----
Point 2 is really blank too. WotC will by definition have BAD cards in a set, simply because a set cannot have just all-star cards, commons and uncommons are often overcosted compared to the cost reduced "rare-version" or a ability overloaded mythic-version of a card, so its already pretty hard for an uncommon creature to see play at all, even less so a common, unless it does extremly specific things that a deck really wants (like a red-burn style deck that has to use some cheap creatures, even if they are bad, at least traditional that was the case, today in the latest past we got a extremely rare/mythic heavy red aggro deck, as they powerdumped all the good cards into rares).
At least removal is sometimes uncommon, but they even tend to push "constructed relevant" removal to rare at this point in time, a trend i really dislike (mostly because the "planeswalker" part of black removal is something they declared to be "rare+only", which is pathetic to begin with).
----
The bad points of reprints that are upshifted in rarity is a real deal breaker.
People are upset about it, OR they dont care, but absolutely NOBODY likes it (unless they are just plain silly and want to be annoying in the argument).
If you so badly want a card in a set, do not ever upshift its rarity, you can avoid that problem by simply not reprinting it at all and design a different card, with somewhat similar effects (but again, dont be so lazy to just change the name, thats something that WotC also does quite often, and its just equally terrible to do so).
Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
Why would you want this in a rare spot? Diluting the number of good cards in a pack is the worst thing a company that lives on selling packs could do. It lowers the incentive for people to buy the product that you are selling.
A lot of rares are garbage. $2 is also worth more than most rares. You want it in the rare slot so you see it in draft less often, because it's useless in draft.
Also, you can argue whether or not it's a good system overall to have narrow and/or hate cards that are not limited playable in the rare rather than the uncommon slot. Personally, I think it would be fine if they were uncommons, but WOTC disagrees. But this thread is about why Narcomeba specifically was upshifted, not whether the policy as a whole is good or bad.
Then design a different card.
If its crap in draft, but too complex for uncommon... design something else
If its great in draft, but not at its previously printed rarity, while still being worthless, design something else
If its being reprinted to keep value low (really? The thing is like a dollar) then make it mesh with the set, if it doesnt... design something else
Theres really no way to slice this one that actually justifies the uptick in rarity, and its something we've seen in other sets, including masters sets.
We should, and are, demanding better. Its what the design team exists for. If they cant or wont design new things, and instead upshift rarities for various reasons... theyre not really doing their job and should quite honestly be ***** canned
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My first thought was Dimir mill, way back when it premiered. But I didn't know if it would be in Ravnica or an actual graveyard block. (I wondered in Innistrad, especially since illusion tribal was a thing in M12.)
On phasing:
lmao. I'm not exactly trying to "defend" this upshift, I'm just trying to understand why they upshifted it rather than being all emotional about it and going "Uncommon to Rare? TERRIBLE! WotC bad!"
The main complaints about this card seem to be
1) "I could open it more often in boosters before, but they made it rarer. They are being greedy." -> As others have pointed out, the card isn't expensive on the secondary market atm. This argument is pretty much invalid.
2) "It's not an exciting rare, they wasted a slot for this." -> I can kind of understand this sentiment, but then again the 'loss' perceived here is largely imaginary. Sure, maybe this slot could've held the next Abrupt Decay … but it also could've been the next Search the City. There's no guarantee that it wouldn't have been an unexciting rare anyway. Now you might say that you'd rather see a new card, even if it's a crap rare, than an upshifted Uncommon. This too I can understand, but I think it's a matter of preference. Especially from a constructed standpoint, I can see some players being intrigued by the reprint of a card whose playability has already been "proven" in other formats, especially since GRN could provide some other pieces to make a deck with Narcomoeba work in Standard.
imho WotC made this a rare because they felt like it was a bad card (even when you get it for free) in Limited, and they didn't want it to take up too much space at the lower rarities. At the same time, should a competitive deck with a large selfmill component emerge in the upcoming Standard, this suddenly makes the jump from a "disappointing rare to open" to at least an "OK rare", i.e. a card with at least some modicum of playability even if you're not that excited about opening it (Aven Mindcensor is another good example of a similar case, as another poster pointed out). I agree that upshifts, especially Uncommon to Rare or Rare to Mythic ones are inherently feel-bad, but I also think you have to remember thay WotC isn't solely doing this in order to rip people off.
Think of it this way: There will be crap rares. They are in every single set, and there are lots of them. This will not change. Complaining about it does nothing. At least this thing is actually playable in a few decks. I don´t see any reason for a huge outcry about the upshift, it really doesn´t matter that it retains a value of a dollar, and it´s not a "wasted slot" because this slot would probably be a mediocre to bad rare anyway.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
But i agree, its terrible as a rare and definitely doesn't draw me in to buy packs.
Also, this time around it'll be in standard with Search of Azcanta and a mechanic it is very sinergistic with. Folks will want to open shocklands, sure, but the set will be loaded with crap rares, too, and this isn't half bad.
For Limited it makes sense.
"Doesn't drive you to buy packs" guess what, you shouldn't buy packs just to crack them anywya.
This is the problem with how things have gone. Wizards should try to make cards that are good enough to make people open packs.
That said, it's a tough balancing act and creates design issues. Can't just shove expdeitions/inventions/etc in every set.
That said, upticking rarity certainly won't help.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Five or six? Opening up a box I couldn't imagine opening up more than two, at least with my experiences getting uncommons from boxes. No way a draft has that many.
It's surely an unfun sight to see in your prerelease kits.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
from my experience u can open up to 5 of the same uncommon on old boxes, and 4 in the new ones (generaly). In a M19 draft i picked 3 Millstones and let one pass for exemple. A deck with 4 1/1 flyers that can be casted for free if u have luck is not as gamebreaking as a card that let u pick other copies of it in your deck as a common imo or a card that whenever u do something you make a token...
but ye, if having 3 narcomoeba in your deck is game breaking, then your limited/draft evroment is kinda lame
Memnarch created the Myr and we see some of them in other places/futures/dimentions. Nah, it is just coincidence. Like Ornithopters and sometimes other artifact creatures really similar being created in diferent planes at the same time.
Damn, now I wan to write about a Planeswalker biologist researching this creature…
That being said, If there's a decent Buried Alive effect, they could be pretty playable.
That being said, it's no worse than any of the other draft chaff rares that comprise the majority of what you open. It's a combo piece, not an overcosted finisher, but I don't see that as a particular problem, given that it should have at least one application in a Standard environment.
It's actually a better Reassembling Skeleton, when you think about it.
They are illusions - I see no reason why stray illusions wouldn't be roaming around Ravnica.
Haha, what? This card is so much worse than reassembling skeleton, which wasn't exactly a limited all star anyway.
Guys. Sheesh. It's a rare because of its complexity. It's not to preserve its secondary market $2 price. It's not because it would be a broken uncommon (you open, what, like ~1.2 of each uncommon for draft? So even if you're way outside the bell curve, 4 might be opened?). Even if you are in magic Christmas land, you get all 4 and 4 are in your deck, in an average game you flip less than 1 with surveil. OH MY GOD! A free 1/1 flyer. Guaranteed win. More broken that packrat.
Narcomeba is a complex card that's garbage in limited. Guess where those cards go now? In the rare slot. It's not a conspiracy. It's exactly where it would be printed if it was a new card.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Why would you want this in a rare spot? Diluting the number of good cards in a pack is the worst thing a company that lives on selling packs could do. It lowers the incentive for people to buy the product that you are selling.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
A lot of rares are garbage. $2 is also worth more than most rares. You want it in the rare slot so you see it in draft less often, because it's useless in draft.
It's the same reason stuff like alpine moon and lost legacy are in the rare slot.
Also, you can argue whether or not it's a good system overall to have narrow and/or hate cards that are not limited playable in the rare rather than the uncommon slot. Personally, I think it would be fine if they were uncommons, but WOTC disagrees. But this thread is about why Narcomeba specifically was upshifted, not whether the policy as a whole is good or bad.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Oh, yeah...thought it said from your graveyard to the battlefield, not library>graveyard>battlefield. My bad.
Yeah, on second glance, this thing is...limited, certainly.
1. It is a complex card, and yea, it should never have been an uncommon.
2. In order to sell more packs, WotC need to put bad cards in the rare slot. Why? Because they want us to open boosters until we get those nice shocklands! Remember: in the end, the house always wins, wherever you like it or not.
I'm not necessary agree with this reprint, it could have been a way cooler card, but I understand why it's a rare.
The card is fairly simple on its own. Other mechanics might produce more complex interactions, but the card as it is, super trivial, as it literally does what is written on it, no extra special secret hidden rules required at all.
Most importantly, its very intuitive too on how it works.
The cards neither powerful nor interesting as a rare.
It does everything you want from an uncommon. It interacts very well with specific mechanics in the set and provides value to these mechanics, so you WANT to have some of them in a draft, and being rare means its a low impact card, that people will simply never be exited about.
----
Point 2 is really blank too. WotC will by definition have BAD cards in a set, simply because a set cannot have just all-star cards, commons and uncommons are often overcosted compared to the cost reduced "rare-version" or a ability overloaded mythic-version of a card, so its already pretty hard for an uncommon creature to see play at all, even less so a common, unless it does extremly specific things that a deck really wants (like a red-burn style deck that has to use some cheap creatures, even if they are bad, at least traditional that was the case, today in the latest past we got a extremely rare/mythic heavy red aggro deck, as they powerdumped all the good cards into rares).
At least removal is sometimes uncommon, but they even tend to push "constructed relevant" removal to rare at this point in time, a trend i really dislike (mostly because the "planeswalker" part of black removal is something they declared to be "rare+only", which is pathetic to begin with).
----
The bad points of reprints that are upshifted in rarity is a real deal breaker.
People are upset about it, OR they dont care, but absolutely NOBODY likes it (unless they are just plain silly and want to be annoying in the argument).
If you so badly want a card in a set, do not ever upshift its rarity, you can avoid that problem by simply not reprinting it at all and design a different card, with somewhat similar effects (but again, dont be so lazy to just change the name, thats something that WotC also does quite often, and its just equally terrible to do so).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Then design a different card.
If its crap in draft, but too complex for uncommon... design something else
If its great in draft, but not at its previously printed rarity, while still being worthless, design something else
If its being reprinted to keep value low (really? The thing is like a dollar) then make it mesh with the set, if it doesnt... design something else
Theres really no way to slice this one that actually justifies the uptick in rarity, and its something we've seen in other sets, including masters sets.
We should, and are, demanding better. Its what the design team exists for. If they cant or wont design new things, and instead upshift rarities for various reasons... theyre not really doing their job and should quite honestly be ***** canned