It seems like the $250 product is 16 packs of guilds of ravnica + 8 more packs from GRN but seeded with those masterpieces...
I really realy hope WotC did not make those masterpieces exclusive to those product and indeed has it in the normal boosters.
That would be a twist i would suport 100% for the masterpieces cashgrab.
I'm guessing they're waiting until Vraska's card is revealed to show us her inevitable inclusion in this product. It's 8 boosters, yet only 7 walkers are currently known.
It seems like the $250 product is 16 packs of guilds of ravnica + 8 more packs from GRN but seeded with those masterpieces...
I really realy hope WotC did not make those masterpieces exclusive to those product and indeed has it in the normal boosters.
That would be a twist i would suport 100% for the masterpieces cashgrab.
The $250 product is 24 packs of Guilds.
16 of the packs are regular packs.
8 of the packs (clearly marked) are regular packs that also have one of the PWs in them (in addition to the regular rare/mythic the pack would normally have).
The MP PWs are only available through the $250 purchase.
The coolest part about these cards, stylistically, is that they're borderless just like the basics and tokens of Unstable. Oddly, though, this combined with an utter lack of other embellishments (they just use a semitransparent version of the normal name-plate and text box) gives them a similar appearance to fan-made proxies. There's not much difference between these and what any old proxy designer could whip up, making them fairly worthless imo.
Sure they have brand new art and they'll be tournament-legal, but neither of those things matters particularly much to someone like me who doesn't bother with organized play and might prefer someone else's fan art to official art.
Aside from that, the selection of planeswalker cards here is pretty weird. Daretti isn't in the colors GRN features, nor does he even play into any themes Ravnica supports. Sure, he might be on Ravnica, but he also hasn't been featured in the main story at all anyway.
Bolas is also expected, being a major player in the story, and I suppose Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is the only viable option considering it isn't tied to a non-Ravnica setting and it isn't a DFC.
Tezzeret is definitely desirable enough, though still off-theme, but justified via his role in the story.
Teferi is another good option here, being desirable, thematically generic, and story-relevant, though he is also guilty of not being in the right colors for the set.
While I don't like people like him that price-gouge - he isn't wrong on the effect this will have on stores. Your local game store is hurting because of decisions WotC is making and this is literally cutting them out of the pie. Oh look - one of those planeswalkers is the new Ral, so there goes some of the value out of packs.
Hasbro seems to be doing something unexpected here - I wonder if they are trying to pad the value of WotC in order to sell it.
It does affect LGS of course and I am not anti-LGS. But I do like it when we the consumer can purchase a product directly from the manufacturer without the markups of all the middle men involved. I don't see a once a year super low volume collectors set going to ruin LGS or online sellers. His attitude in that video is nothing more than an entitled spoiled middleman angry he can't soak the end customer. Again, I like him for the most part and appreciate some of the things he brings to light.
A lot of the other youtubers that have stores/sell are doing the same thing as well. They don't like it when we the consumer doesn't have to go directly through them so they can jack up the price and take their cut. Again, I'm not anti-LGS but the complete bellyaching over one product they can't gouge us on is ridiculous.
As for Hasbro prepping WotC for sale, I wouldn't put it past them for sure.
Uhm - if you think this isn't marked up you are mistaken. If this were going to LGSs 250 would be the MSRP and the base value would be somethibg like 150.
On other words - the middleman markup is still there and Hasbro is collecting it.
Yes but Hasbro won't gouge us by jacking it up to 300 bucks like a LGS could or an online seller would. MSRP is MSRP. Of course if you can get an order in on release day.
My closest LGS would never sell From the Vault at $34.99 MSRP, they would always gouge at like $55 and up. The same thing would happen with these.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The situation with the secondary market is almost irreparable. The reason that the new booster boxes have lower EV most of the time is due to the amount that gets printed and opened, not the actual competitive contents of the box. If the box had the best cards in the world to play the game with eternally and was priced at 120 msrp, the singles seller market would treat it like the next gold rush and just buy until they couldn't pound the buy button on pallets anymore. They'd then flood the market until the prices settled below any point they could net a return. However, the real reason there is a problem is that the entire business is flooded with singles sellers.
Basically, what is making the LGS a bad business is that so many people are trying to get into the business that unless you're name is Star City Games, CFB, or Card Kingdom, there's not enough profit in opening booster boxes except on pre-sales. Its the same problem the ATM industry has with banks and such. There's too much overhead to provide servicing for machines on top of being competitive on pricing with other companies, which is an indicator of a flooded market. The market will correct itself when tons of singles sellers and LGS go out of business, leaving only the ones that are the most robust in the wake of it all.
I think Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is going about this the wrong way where they could be distributing card singles to the LGS through local distributors (similar to FNM Promos) instead of consumers needing to go through one website to obtain them with non-stop shipping delays. They know that If they change their business model from distributing booster boxes / sealed product to the LGS to just card singles then these stores end up making less money even though they'd have less bulk to deal with. Part of the reason why Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro sticks with the booster box / sealed product distribution model for Magic over the card singles model is to help them avoid acknowledging the Secondary Market that would get them in legal jeopardy.
So the real question is how do we solve the problem of a flooded market of singles sellers while keeping the LGS in business to provide a venue for people to play Magic? The reason why these singles sellers are thriving is due to the LGS being constantly out of stock on specific singles that customers are wanting knowing full well that wishlists won't get them anywhere simply because they don't have the patience for it. I mean who can really blame them? LGS owners have no choice but to leave it to chance in the hopes that people will sell cards that are in high demand to their store instead of selling them online where they're gaining more profit than the LGS who needs that money in order to stay afloat.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Did you happen to notice that they "stopped" doing From the Vault and then "Oh hey 8 planeswalkers in a bundle!" pop up?
That is because these ARE the worse prototype of FtV, masquerading as Masterpieces.
You mention how your LGS would charge $55 for a FtV. My FtV Angels was $65. Let's add that together shall we?
So now we have our collective FtVs at $110. My LGS sells a standard boster box for $120.
Your FTV, my FtV, and a COMPLETE standard booster boc comes to $240. BUT WAIT! THERE IS LESS:
You see you are not getting 36 packs, you are getting only 24 packs.
So $4*24=$72+$65(FTV)=$139
$139...
Now if we look at the SDCC collecton Hasbro offered for $92, that is $92/5=$18.40 per SDCC walker...hmmm...
$18.40*8=$147.20 for 8 "Masterpiece" 'Walkers going by that math. That means you are paying $102.80 for 24 packs of cards or $4.28 a pack.
That is getting gouged.
Now if they want to start gouging the people that want to own ALL the "Masterpieces" and still offer them up in boosters like TRUE Masterpieces for that lucky lottery player, cool. I'm down. If WotC isn't including them in packs, they are not Masterpieces, they are From the Vault and shall be treated like a From the Vault bundle.
The reason why I am pointing out this gouging and why I do not like it is that there are already cards that are out of my price range. I have a full time job, I'm not some whiny jobless kid. What I'm worried about is if they decide to more things LIKE THIS with non reprints (see Nexus of Fate threads all over these forums). I can barely justify buying one NoF to my family, let alone four. What if next year there are eight one day $250 price tag cards to define standard?
At the end of the day, the price tag is a gouge(since it should NOT be factoring above and beyond the price hike from the distributor or store), but if it is just reprints with some typical standard packs, go nuts if you have the spare cash. I am all for letting others pay money for things of fashion.
What I do not want however is for a one-day-pay-to-win-standard-for-the-season to become a thing.
The other problem with a crap rip off product like this and WotC is if they feel it was a 'success' they will push it further and make it bad for players. There's no question about this... see Nexus of Fate for reference.
Please don't buy this trash product. It will not be worth more.
It will not be collectible.
It is a distraction from a company that needs to be getting back on course and not jumping the shark.
Everyone needs to remember a company, a business can ask whatever they want for their product. Its the responsibility of the consumer to turn it down if it isn't worth it. We have the last say.
Speak with your wallet.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The 'S' stands for 'Suggested'. But if I were to take what you said as "The price is the price" then, yes, I understand what you mean and I think I agree. Although based on what Rudy seems to be saying the MSRP on this would probably have been $200 and it would have been jacked to $250 - so I actually think Hasbro might be pre-price jacking too.
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Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
Everyone needs to remember a company, a business can ask whatever they want for their product. Its the responsibility of the consumer to turn it down if it isn't worth it. We have the last say.
Speak with your wallet.
Problem is everyone will buy these up, simply because you get way more money if you can get them for 250$ , selling them for way more.
It simply doesnt work if a product RESELLS for more money, it will always be a hot cake.
Thats the entire point of this, its easy money, super easy money, simply because its such a limited product, its even restricted by region and distributor, its the worst deal that could happen to paper magic , and there is a very real fear that WotC will just swing to digital only and produce paper products for a premium price.
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This can turn really really bad, and chances that it flat out fails are almost 0 , but future releases of this will almost for sure (as like all the premium product WotC is doing, the first is almost always a major hit, as its limited and "new" , but WotC will be guaranteed to take it too far and make this "alters" into a terrible deal, just a matter of time).
I can see them printing almost all the planeswalkers worth anything in short order, just to fall flat the moment they see that there simply are not enough "expensive" planeswalker around to justify such a horrific price tag.
No the premise still works. Its up to the end buyer to reject the product and the price regardless of who tries to buy it and flip it for profit. Fiscal discipline will rule out. Problem is people make impulse buys and will pay whatever for whatever if they think they want/need it. Let the flippers sit on the product and rot.
Again, I am usually super hard on Wizards but trying this with one high end product doesn't seem like the end of the world. Concentrating on stuff that isn't PC, focusing on getting woke and then actually looking like a business for once (in this case) surprises me.
And yes Hasbro is probably overcharging, but again consumer discipline needs to take over. The thing is a lot of people will like this product, don't mind spending the money and they will all sell out, to the end user or to a scalper who will try to flip them. The market will dictate what happens.
Hey I'm guilty of it as well. I rail on Wizards but I go out and buy sealed product from time to time. They laugh all the way to the bank.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Not probably, they are overcharging. If you break down the value of this product using MSRP on the packs then WotC is charging us about $20 for each of these Masterpiece 'walkers. $20 for a card that costs the same for WotC to print as any other foil. If you break down the value based on average costs of packs rather than MSRP then WotC is charging us about $22.75 per 'walker. That's pretty unreasonable IMO. The markup here is enormous.
Did you happen to notice that they "stopped" doing From the Vault and then "Oh hey 8 planeswalkers in a bundle!" pop up?
That is because these ARE the worse prototype of FtV, masquerading as Masterpieces.
You mention how your LGS would charge $55 for a FtV. My FtV Angels was $65. Let's add that together shall we?
So now we have our collective FtVs at $110. My LGS sells a standard boster box for $120.
Your FTV, my FtV, and a COMPLETE standard booster boc comes to $240. BUT WAIT! THERE IS LESS:
You see you are not getting 36 packs, you are getting only 24 packs.
So $4*24=$72+$65(FTV)=$139
$139...
Now if we look at the SDCC collecton Hasbro offered for $92, that is $92/5=$18.40 per SDCC walker...hmmm...
$18.40*8=$147.20 for 8 "Masterpiece" 'Walkers going by that math. That means you are paying $102.80 for 24 packs of cards or $4.28 a pack.
That is getting gouged.
Now if they want to start gouging the people that want to own ALL the "Masterpieces" and still offer them up in boosters like TRUE Masterpieces for that lucky lottery player, cool. I'm down. If WotC isn't including them in packs, they are not Masterpieces, they are From the Vault and shall be treated like a From the Vault bundle.
The reason why I am pointing out this gouging and why I do not like it is that there are already cards that are out of my price range. I have a full time job, I'm not some whiny jobless kid. What I'm worried about is if they decide to more things LIKE THIS with non reprints (see Nexus of Fate threads all over these forums). I can barely justify buying one NoF to my family, let alone four. What if next year there are eight one day $250 price tag cards to define standard?
At the end of the day, the price tag is a gouge(since it should NOT be factoring above and beyond the price hike from the distributor or store), but if it is just reprints with some typical standard packs, go nuts if you have the spare cash. I am all for letting others pay money for things of fashion.
What I do not want however is for a one-day-pay-to-win-standard-for-the-season to become a thing.
Honestly, I'm starting to think they decided they wanted to try and do what some other places do in other games and stick the price. Rudy had some pretty convincing points and they align with what I was postulating: That wizards of the coast is more willing to experiment with the paper market due to now having Arena and MTGO to fall back on.
Few problems I have with this product:
1) Lack of added value. It has no specialty swag outside of the cards themselves that people can put on their shelves like books, models, night vision goggles, Collector pins, etc. Imagine if they had this set, but also each of the boxes has a 20mm scale reproduction of an iconic landmark or structure belonging to each guild. Duskmantle, Vitu Ghazi, etc. And I mean diorama quality production.
2) Given the size of magic the gathering and the absolute lack of technical prowess wizards has, the "two per person" limit is not going to stop bots from flushing out their inventory and posting all the boxes up for inflated prices. People are going to be angry.
3) This entire venture is assuming that their is enough interest in these walkers to get people into spending insane amounts of money for them. On top of which, the target audience for specialty cards are collectors, where as this box is completely sealed packs. I'm just foreseeing a complete disaster on the market as people who are ill informed buy packs from these luxury boxes thinking they are the marked ones when they get sent a regular one.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There is no such thing as overcharging for collectors items in my opinion. They could price it at $1000 if they wanted to. It's down to the consumer to decide if it is a good product or not to spend their money on.
Now if they were offering cards that could only be got through limited edition and was constructed format playable as well, then you could have the pitch forks out.
Now will the buyer get a return on investment? There will be some buyers who legitimately want those planeswalkers and will be happy. "Yah I've got full art bordered versions of some random planeswalkers ... that I could have commissioned an artist for a reasonable price anyway, and had it completely custom for me."
There will be a moderate number of collectors, but at the end of the day it's not that exciting, as we've seen full art a lot through the altered art scene.
There will also be those hoping to make money by scalping. Are people willing to pay for the singles? Well for sure Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Liliana, the Last Hope will have demand. Will the other have much demand? My guess is moderate, to not much.
So there is going to be some real decisions on purchasers of the product to split up the cards for single sales. This in itself is going to cause some confusion and be a little chaotic I think.
Will there be enough collectors to profit the scalpers? We will have to see.
So I mean it's not a terrible risky product to purchase, but I wouldn't expect gold either. The GRN boosters themselves mean nothing. So there is no randomness to what is in the purchase, so you can't expect the value of a "box" to increase much as the years go on, unless you truly catch collectors with their pants down. It's not like you can open a Gaea's Cradle (Urza's Saga), or even a Blood Moon (Amonkhet Invocations), stuff that is exciting to open once it's sat on the shelf for awhile. You know exactly what it's face value is.
Short video on wizards' twitter, showing the shiny cards.
It looks like FTV foiling, which is a super huge bummer. You could see the slight bend in the card as the person twirled it around.
Unfortunate, this makes them a little less desirable.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Short video on wizards' twitter, showing the shiny cards.
It looks like FTV foiling, which is a super huge bummer. You could see the slight bend in the card as the person twirled it around.
Unfortunate, this makes them a little less desirable.
Well that doesn't help things. To elaborate on what I was saying earlier, I wasn't saying that the 250 dollars is too much or too little. The main issue is that the only thing the box has to justify itself at that price is the alternate art planeswalker cards themselves. The booster packs are worthless in a sense since they are the same booster packs found in typical Guilds of Ravnica boxes, so the question is if there is a market for FTV Foiled walkers on the market. The sellers will certainly post a high dollar price tag, but unless people are going crazy over buying walkers they just aren't going to go anywhere.
Also, this is making me think the transformers pack that happened was a beta for this. I'm just glad I'm playing other games and am not stuck with MtG, because this is the worst rip off I've seen since the attempts of GW to raise their already expensive model prices.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Also, this is making me think the transformers pack that happened was a beta for this. I'm just glad I'm playing other games and am not stuck with MtG, because this is the worst rip off I've seen since the attempts of GW to raise their already expensive model prices.
You say that as if this wont 1, sell out, and 2, command massive numbers on the secondary market?
Unless they overprint it like crazy.
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UW Spirits
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I really realy hope WotC did not make those masterpieces exclusive to those product and indeed has it in the normal boosters.
That would be a twist i would suport 100% for the masterpieces cashgrab.
The $250 product is 24 packs of Guilds.
16 of the packs are regular packs.
8 of the packs (clearly marked) are regular packs that also have one of the PWs in them (in addition to the regular rare/mythic the pack would normally have).
The MP PWs are only available through the $250 purchase.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
This is a really bad idea. I liked having Masterpieces in a set. This is just wrong, and neither art nor the frames are really outstanding.
Before the glory of Yawgmoth, yes, even this makes sense.
Sure they have brand new art and they'll be tournament-legal, but neither of those things matters particularly much to someone like me who doesn't bother with organized play and might prefer someone else's fan art to official art.
Aside from that, the selection of planeswalker cards here is pretty weird. Daretti isn't in the colors GRN features, nor does he even play into any themes Ravnica supports. Sure, he might be on Ravnica, but he also hasn't been featured in the main story at all anyway.
And for that matter, Elspeth isn't even on Ravnica. I will say that Elspeth, Knight Errant is a perfectly desirable card (although a bit less so since the arrival of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar), which is more than I can say for Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast.
Ral and Vraska are no surprise, being in the set.
Bolas is also expected, being a major player in the story, and I suppose Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is the only viable option considering it isn't tied to a non-Ravnica setting and it isn't a DFC.
Tezzeret is definitely desirable enough, though still off-theme, but justified via his role in the story.
Teferi is another good option here, being desirable, thematically generic, and story-relevant, though he is also guilty of not being in the right colors for the set.
The same positives apply with Liliana, the Last Hope, although I can see arguments that it should've been Liliana of the Veil.
Yes but Hasbro won't gouge us by jacking it up to 300 bucks like a LGS could or an online seller would. MSRP is MSRP. Of course if you can get an order in on release day.
My closest LGS would never sell From the Vault at $34.99 MSRP, they would always gouge at like $55 and up. The same thing would happen with these.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
So the real question is how do we solve the problem of a flooded market of singles sellers while keeping the LGS in business to provide a venue for people to play Magic? The reason why these singles sellers are thriving is due to the LGS being constantly out of stock on specific singles that customers are wanting knowing full well that wishlists won't get them anywhere simply because they don't have the patience for it. I mean who can really blame them? LGS owners have no choice but to leave it to chance in the hopes that people will sell cards that are in high demand to their store instead of selling them online where they're gaining more profit than the LGS who needs that money in order to stay afloat.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
That is because these ARE the worse prototype of FtV, masquerading as Masterpieces.
You mention how your LGS would charge $55 for a FtV. My FtV Angels was $65. Let's add that together shall we?
So now we have our collective FtVs at $110. My LGS sells a standard boster box for $120.
Your FTV, my FtV, and a COMPLETE standard booster boc comes to $240.
BUT WAIT! THERE IS LESS:
You see you are not getting 36 packs, you are getting only 24 packs.
So $4*24=$72+$65(FTV)=$139
$139...
Now if we look at the SDCC collecton Hasbro offered for $92, that is $92/5=$18.40 per SDCC walker...hmmm...
$18.40*8=$147.20 for 8 "Masterpiece" 'Walkers going by that math. That means you are paying $102.80 for 24 packs of cards or $4.28 a pack.
That is getting gouged.
Now if they want to start gouging the people that want to own ALL the "Masterpieces" and still offer them up in boosters like TRUE Masterpieces for that lucky lottery player, cool. I'm down. If WotC isn't including them in packs, they are not Masterpieces, they are From the Vault and shall be treated like a From the Vault bundle.
The reason why I am pointing out this gouging and why I do not like it is that there are already cards that are out of my price range. I have a full time job, I'm not some whiny jobless kid. What I'm worried about is if they decide to more things LIKE THIS with non reprints (see Nexus of Fate threads all over these forums). I can barely justify buying one NoF to my family, let alone four. What if next year there are eight one day $250 price tag cards to define standard?
At the end of the day, the price tag is a gouge(since it should NOT be factoring above and beyond the price hike from the distributor or store), but if it is just reprints with some typical standard packs, go nuts if you have the spare cash. I am all for letting others pay money for things of fashion.
What I do not want however is for a one-day-pay-to-win-standard-for-the-season to become a thing.
Please don't buy this trash product. It will not be worth more.
It will not be collectible.
It is a distraction from a company that needs to be getting back on course and not jumping the shark.
Speak with your wallet.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The 'S' stands for 'Suggested'. But if I were to take what you said as "The price is the price" then, yes, I understand what you mean and I think I agree. Although based on what Rudy seems to be saying the MSRP on this would probably have been $200 and it would have been jacked to $250 - so I actually think Hasbro might be pre-price jacking too.
Problem is everyone will buy these up, simply because you get way more money if you can get them for 250$ , selling them for way more.
It simply doesnt work if a product RESELLS for more money, it will always be a hot cake.
Thats the entire point of this, its easy money, super easy money, simply because its such a limited product, its even restricted by region and distributor, its the worst deal that could happen to paper magic , and there is a very real fear that WotC will just swing to digital only and produce paper products for a premium price.
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This can turn really really bad, and chances that it flat out fails are almost 0 , but future releases of this will almost for sure (as like all the premium product WotC is doing, the first is almost always a major hit, as its limited and "new" , but WotC will be guaranteed to take it too far and make this "alters" into a terrible deal, just a matter of time).
I can see them printing almost all the planeswalkers worth anything in short order, just to fall flat the moment they see that there simply are not enough "expensive" planeswalker around to justify such a horrific price tag.
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Again, I am usually super hard on Wizards but trying this with one high end product doesn't seem like the end of the world. Concentrating on stuff that isn't PC, focusing on getting woke and then actually looking like a business for once (in this case) surprises me.
And yes Hasbro is probably overcharging, but again consumer discipline needs to take over. The thing is a lot of people will like this product, don't mind spending the money and they will all sell out, to the end user or to a scalper who will try to flip them. The market will dictate what happens.
Hey I'm guilty of it as well. I rail on Wizards but I go out and buy sealed product from time to time. They laugh all the way to the bank.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Not probably, they are overcharging. If you break down the value of this product using MSRP on the packs then WotC is charging us about $20 for each of these Masterpiece 'walkers. $20 for a card that costs the same for WotC to print as any other foil. If you break down the value based on average costs of packs rather than MSRP then WotC is charging us about $22.75 per 'walker. That's pretty unreasonable IMO. The markup here is enormous.
Honestly, I'm starting to think they decided they wanted to try and do what some other places do in other games and stick the price. Rudy had some pretty convincing points and they align with what I was postulating: That wizards of the coast is more willing to experiment with the paper market due to now having Arena and MTGO to fall back on.
Few problems I have with this product:
1) Lack of added value. It has no specialty swag outside of the cards themselves that people can put on their shelves like books, models, night vision goggles, Collector pins, etc. Imagine if they had this set, but also each of the boxes has a 20mm scale reproduction of an iconic landmark or structure belonging to each guild. Duskmantle, Vitu Ghazi, etc. And I mean diorama quality production.
2) Given the size of magic the gathering and the absolute lack of technical prowess wizards has, the "two per person" limit is not going to stop bots from flushing out their inventory and posting all the boxes up for inflated prices. People are going to be angry.
3) This entire venture is assuming that their is enough interest in these walkers to get people into spending insane amounts of money for them. On top of which, the target audience for specialty cards are collectors, where as this box is completely sealed packs. I'm just foreseeing a complete disaster on the market as people who are ill informed buy packs from these luxury boxes thinking they are the marked ones when they get sent a regular one.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Now if they were offering cards that could only be got through limited edition and was constructed format playable as well, then you could have the pitch forks out.
Now will the buyer get a return on investment? There will be some buyers who legitimately want those planeswalkers and will be happy. "Yah I've got full art bordered versions of some random planeswalkers ... that I could have commissioned an artist for a reasonable price anyway, and had it completely custom for me."
There will be a moderate number of collectors, but at the end of the day it's not that exciting, as we've seen full art a lot through the altered art scene.
There will also be those hoping to make money by scalping. Are people willing to pay for the singles? Well for sure Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Liliana, the Last Hope will have demand. Will the other have much demand? My guess is moderate, to not much.
So there is going to be some real decisions on purchasers of the product to split up the cards for single sales. This in itself is going to cause some confusion and be a little chaotic I think.
Will there be enough collectors to profit the scalpers? We will have to see.
So I mean it's not a terrible risky product to purchase, but I wouldn't expect gold either. The GRN boosters themselves mean nothing. So there is no randomness to what is in the purchase, so you can't expect the value of a "box" to increase much as the years go on, unless you truly catch collectors with their pants down. It's not like you can open a Gaea's Cradle (Urza's Saga), or even a Blood Moon (Amonkhet Invocations), stuff that is exciting to open once it's sat on the shelf for awhile. You know exactly what it's face value is.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
It looks like FTV foiling, which is a super huge bummer. You could see the slight bend in the card as the person twirled it around.
Unfortunate, this makes them a little less desirable.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Well that doesn't help things. To elaborate on what I was saying earlier, I wasn't saying that the 250 dollars is too much or too little. The main issue is that the only thing the box has to justify itself at that price is the alternate art planeswalker cards themselves. The booster packs are worthless in a sense since they are the same booster packs found in typical Guilds of Ravnica boxes, so the question is if there is a market for FTV Foiled walkers on the market. The sellers will certainly post a high dollar price tag, but unless people are going crazy over buying walkers they just aren't going to go anywhere.
Also, this is making me think the transformers pack that happened was a beta for this. I'm just glad I'm playing other games and am not stuck with MtG, because this is the worst rip off I've seen since the attempts of GW to raise their already expensive model prices.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You say that as if this wont 1, sell out, and 2, command massive numbers on the secondary market?
Unless they overprint it like crazy.
Spirits