Yeah, that scans, relative to Fated Infatuation (easier to play for no instant speed or scry) and I guess Cackling Counterpart (cheaper recast for no instant speed). Does what it needs to.
Oh. This makes Jump Start far less interesting if the cost is always the same as the CMC of the card + Discard. Not what I was expecting when I saw the mechanics announcement.
However, you can use alternate cost shenanigans like As Foretold to 'help'. Since Jump-Start counts as an additional cost, not an alternate cost. Kinda like Retrace (except you can discard anything, but it self-exiles).
Oh. This makes Jump Start far less interesting if the cost is always the same as the CMC of the card + Discard. Not what I was expecting when I saw the mechanics announcement.
Yeah I was hoping for a bonus effect when you jumpstart.
Yeah I was hoping for a bonus effect when you jumpstart.
Well, we've only had one card previewed with the ability so far. The others are just simple examples so far, and I would not be surprised if we got something like Flamespeaker Adept for Surveil, but we haven't seen it yet. (I'm expecting we'll get some "whenever you cast a spell from your graveyard" cards -- maybe Secrets of the Dead knockoff? -- or maybe even some more specific "whenever you jump-start an instant or sorcery card" abilities.)
too bad it's not in a big token color. Selesyna rather than Izzet would be fun.
Blue is, however, the color of cloning creatures you already have; this effect would probably not come up in Selesnya. Usually they only get copies of creatures as tokens on stuff like Spawnwrithe, i.e. self-replicating creatures. Basically, it'd look a lot different.
But I do admire what you're saying; if only populate were in this set.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I... really don't think that Jump-Start is worse than Retrace. You cannot play the card infinitely like Retrace, but you do get the following upsides:
1) The cost is WAY cheaper.
2) It can self-fuel, while Retrace cannot. (I.e., I can discard Jump-Start cards to Jump-Start cards.)
3) You are not required to discard a land. While lands are likely going to be the preferred discard, unless your deck is made with 2) in effect, it's not required... and that's a good thing.
Finally, I would expect a card, similar to what they print in Flashback blocks, to get an Instant or Sorcery back from exile.
I... really don't think that Jump-Start is worse than Retrace. You cannot play the card infinitely like Retrace, but you do get the following upsides:
1) The cost is WAY cheaper.
2) It can self-fuel, while Retrace cannot. (I.e., I can discard Jump-Start cards to Jump-Start cards.)
3) You are not required to discard a land. While lands are likely going to be the preferred discard, unless your deck is made with 2) in effect, it's not required... and that's a good thing.
Finally, I would expect a card, similar to what they print in Flashback blocks, to get an Instant or Sorcery back from exile.
1) cost is way cheaper than Retrace? how?
2) discarding Jump start cards to activate jump start isn`t fueling anything, just losing the opportunity of casting that same card from your hand for the same cost.
3) ok, now an upside.... but I`d take the ability of casting it again and again over it any day of the week
I... really don't think that Jump-Start is worse than Retrace. You cannot play the card infinitely like Retrace, but you do get the following upsides:
1) The cost is WAY cheaper.
2) It can self-fuel, while Retrace cannot. (I.e., I can discard Jump-Start cards to Jump-Start cards.)
3) You are not required to discard a land. While lands are likely going to be the preferred discard, unless your deck is made with 2) in effect, it's not required... and that's a good thing.
Finally, I would expect a card, similar to what they print in Flashback blocks, to get an Instant or Sorcery back from exile.
1) cost is way cheaper than Retrace? how?
2) discarding Jump start cards to activate jump start isn`t fueling anything, just losing the opportunity of casting that same card from your hand for the same cost.
3) ok, now an upside.... but I`d take the ability of casting it again and again over it any day of the week
Spitting Image says this card would likely cost at least 3UU if it had Retrace (Restricting it to your own creatures has traditionally made these things cost 1 less, as evidenced by Mirror Image.)
Is there some reason we've never seen the most basic version of this card?
We keep getting stuff like this and Fated Infatuation.
Speaking of Mirror Image, it seems likely that's the most basic version of this card. They're not going to turn it into a token unless they have a reason to, such as Fated Infatuation being part of a cycle or wanting to give it flashback.
Honestly, the biggest value of Jump-Start over retrace is that it doesn’t come with the design constraints of retrace
Note that there is no retrace card that bounces. Note that the only retrace kill spell deals 1 damage to a target. Note that the draw spell doesn’t actually get card advantage.
Any card effect that could become too oppressive in limited formats when repeated ad nauseum (other than high end 5-7 drops that make game-ending tokens) could not be transformed into retrace spells without ruining limited.
Jump-Start lacks that restriction. They can put jump start on a divination, pyroclasm, disperse, or counterspell without causing too much problems. I would personally view jump-start less like a one-time retrace and more like a flashback that never increases the mana cost (making discard and self-mill more potent). In that light, jump-start is pretty rad.
Oh. This makes Jump Start far less interesting if the cost is always the same as the CMC of the card + Discard. Not what I was expecting when I saw the mechanics announcement.
It's actually the exact opposite. Jump-start is super powerful. It's more powerful that flashback most of the time. The reasons:
1. Flashback has always been balance by making the flashback cost higher, sometimes make it the extra cast useless.
2. Because jump-start's cost is the same as the original cost, they have the choice of either making the card not playable (because the CMC is too high to play the card) or make the card great. I'll bve surprised if a few don't end-up being eternal playable.
3. The mechanics basically allow you to play 8 copies of the card. It's basically a free-const transmute for a single target.
This card is balanced, but only because it only can target you creatures.
too bad it's not in a big token color. Selesyna rather than Izzet would be fun.
Blue is, however, the color of cloning creatures you already have; this effect would probably not come up in Selesnya. Usually they only get copies of creatures as tokens on stuff like Spawnwrithe, i.e. self-replicating creatures. Basically, it'd look a lot different.
But I do admire what you're saying; if only populate were in this set.
Yes, it's on-color for that reason, but if it was in green/white it would be fun with populate, big-token makers like Advent of the Wurm and Doubling Season. In blue it could work with Simic especially since Doubling Season also plays into that guild's +1/+1 counter mechanics.
It's actually the exact opposite. Jump-start is super powerful. It's more powerful that flashback most of the time. The reasons:
1. Flashback has always been balance by making the flashback cost higher, sometimes make it the extra cast useless.
2. Because jump-start's cost is the same as the original cost, they have the choice of either making the card not playable (because the CMC is too high to play the card) or make the card great. I'll bve surprised if a few don't end-up being eternal playable.
3. The mechanics basically allow you to play 8 copies of the card. It's basically a free-const transmute for a single target.
This card is balanced, but only because it only can target you creatures.
1) Yousureaboutthat?
2) + 3) Are essentially the same problem. R&D has to cost everything at the "appropriate" power level because every Jump-Start card can be cast on back-to-back turns. Nothing can be overly pushed because of the gameplay risks of playing 2 of them in a row.
Unlocking the second cost from the first simply gives R&D more options. There is no way removing that ability makes the cards better.
R&D has to handle retrace like it's toxic waste. It's super easy to produce repetitive and oppressive game states with it. TBH, they kind of crossed the line with it at least once already. Between overcosted Scylla and overpowered Charybdis, the mechanic has such a narrow band of "fun and fair" that I'd be wary to ever see it in a Standard-legal product again. It's a mechanic that looks good on paper, but is really dangerous for the game in practice.
On the other hand, jump-start takes one of the best parts about retrace (its simplicity) and combines it with one of the best parts about flashback (its self-exile). I think it's a great mechanic. Original? Of course not. Farthest thing from it. But jump-start looks like a mechanic that R&D can push without too much concern over degeneracy. I expect some real winners, here.
Oh. This makes Jump Start far less interesting if the cost is always the same as the CMC of the card + Discard. Not what I was expecting when I saw the mechanics announcement.
Yeah I was hoping for a bonus effect when you jumpstart.
This might happen on some cards. "If you cast this from the graveyard then..." might appear. Still hoping
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via Pax West event.
Yeah I was hoping for a bonus effect when you jumpstart.
the flavor text? Niv Mizzet would be proud of that attitude.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Blue is, however, the color of cloning creatures you already have; this effect would probably not come up in Selesnya. Usually they only get copies of creatures as tokens on stuff like Spawnwrithe, i.e. self-replicating creatures. Basically, it'd look a lot different.
But I do admire what you're saying; if only populate were in this set.
We keep getting stuff like this and Fated Infatuation.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I... really don't think that Jump-Start is worse than Retrace. You cannot play the card infinitely like Retrace, but you do get the following upsides:
1) The cost is WAY cheaper.
2) It can self-fuel, while Retrace cannot. (I.e., I can discard Jump-Start cards to Jump-Start cards.)
3) You are not required to discard a land. While lands are likely going to be the preferred discard, unless your deck is made with 2) in effect, it's not required... and that's a good thing.
Finally, I would expect a card, similar to what they print in Flashback blocks, to get an Instant or Sorcery back from exile.
This copy your "own" stuff cards are always just terrible bad ...
Why do them at all ?
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
1) cost is way cheaper than Retrace? how?
2) discarding Jump start cards to activate jump start isn`t fueling anything, just losing the opportunity of casting that same card from your hand for the same cost.
3) ok, now an upside.... but I`d take the ability of casting it again and again over it any day of the week
Speaking of Mirror Image, it seems likely that's the most basic version of this card. They're not going to turn it into a token unless they have a reason to, such as Fated Infatuation being part of a cycle or wanting to give it flashback.
Note that there is no retrace card that bounces. Note that the only retrace kill spell deals 1 damage to a target. Note that the draw spell doesn’t actually get card advantage.
Any card effect that could become too oppressive in limited formats when repeated ad nauseum (other than high end 5-7 drops that make game-ending tokens) could not be transformed into retrace spells without ruining limited.
Jump-Start lacks that restriction. They can put jump start on a divination, pyroclasm, disperse, or counterspell without causing too much problems. I would personally view jump-start less like a one-time retrace and more like a flashback that never increases the mana cost (making discard and self-mill more potent). In that light, jump-start is pretty rad.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
It's actually the exact opposite. Jump-start is super powerful. It's more powerful that flashback most of the time. The reasons:
1. Flashback has always been balance by making the flashback cost higher, sometimes make it the extra cast useless.
2. Because jump-start's cost is the same as the original cost, they have the choice of either making the card not playable (because the CMC is too high to play the card) or make the card great. I'll bve surprised if a few don't end-up being eternal playable.
3. The mechanics basically allow you to play 8 copies of the card. It's basically a free-const transmute for a single target.
This card is balanced, but only because it only can target you creatures.
Yes, it's on-color for that reason, but if it was in green/white it would be fun with populate, big-token makers like Advent of the Wurm and Doubling Season. In blue it could work with Simic especially since Doubling Season also plays into that guild's +1/+1 counter mechanics.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Turn 4 Biovisionary
Turn 5 Stunt Double
Turn 6 Quasiduplicate, Jump-start Quasiduplicate
2) + 3) Are essentially the same problem. R&D has to cost everything at the "appropriate" power level because every Jump-Start card can be cast on back-to-back turns. Nothing can be overly pushed because of the gameplay risks of playing 2 of them in a row.
Unlocking the second cost from the first simply gives R&D more options. There is no way removing that ability makes the cards better.
On the other hand, jump-start takes one of the best parts about retrace (its simplicity) and combines it with one of the best parts about flashback (its self-exile). I think it's a great mechanic. Original? Of course not. Farthest thing from it. But jump-start looks like a mechanic that R&D can push without too much concern over degeneracy. I expect some real winners, here.
Skilled Animator can make any non-creature artifact a viable target to clone.
This might happen on some cards. "If you cast this from the graveyard then..." might appear. Still hoping