Jump-Start sounds like it could be fun, as long as Ashes of the Abhorrent isn't around to ruin the ride.
I wonder if Convoke will get something like Inspiring Statuary, an effect on an enchantment or artifact that says something like "creature spells you cast have convoke" or "noncreature spells you cast have convoke"? Either "nonartifact spells you cast have convoke" or "spells you cast have convoke" might be a little too much, though.
They're not so much boring as they are simplistic, and I find that simplistic mechanics are the most impactful. So we'll see how these complement those in Standard sans Energy et al and then their applications in eternal.
I just want to see a card carrying each of those mechanics to see how they are written before I reserve final judgement.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Spells you cast have convoke is probably fine. Unlike artifacts, creatures don't have 6 lands that just happen to be artifacts, the artifact "dual lands" from alara block, and a ton of 0 cost artifacts. There are a few 0 cost creatures and a land that's always a creature, but unlike an artifact land, a creature land has summoning sickness.
I'm pretty pumped for Graveyard Scry. Scry is already awesome. Putting the cards I don't want in the graveyard is way better than the bottom of the library, especially in UB.
Has WotC forgotten than Muldrotha is in standard... Surveil may get busted with Muldrotha... and combining Surveil with Undergrowth may get sick...
I think it may be intentional on their part. Maro did mention that Surveil is better than it looks.
I at least know that I will put it in my Damia commander deck, because it is good to selfmill with that one. Could possibly also see play in my Aminatou deck.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
My wife was a huge fan of Guttersnipe when we played during RTR. But now she is to busy to play so I bought a playset of Full Art Gutters to use for myself and Jump-Start might just be really nice with him. I am hoping they reprint Goblin Electromancer to replace Baral, which is still a wizard triggering Wizard’s Lighting.
I figure if we can get 1 cheap “Draw A Card” Jump-Start that will be perfect for when you are being mana flooded. Maybe we will get super lucky and it will be “Draw 2 Cards”. There will definitely be Jump-Start Burn too.
Interested in Surveil and Jump-Start. The Boros one looks like weaker Bolster, so meh? Convoke is always sweet, but having upside for a potential blowout is a nice though. Golgari should have just been Dredge, so meh on this.
Dredge is never coming back, it is absurdly powerful to the point where every eternal format deck has to have sideboard hate specifically for the deck.
I’m actually looking forward to Mentoring. What I imagine is that Mentor will be a rider mechanic on already efficient, or ability-laden creatures to make up for it’s seeming weakness.
They wouldn’t sell Boros short a third time right?
....RIGHT??!?
Hey hey, be fair to Radiance, the actual mechanic for Radiance is pretty good TBH they just WAAAAAAYYY over costed the cards, and it has an interesting design space that could do fun things, like imagine a shock effect for 2R with Radiance but it deals double damage to Hexproof and Shroud creatures, It is a little more expensive than a Pyroclasm but, it has higher reach on creatures that Red can't normally burn.
Selesnia Convoke. Also on some cards If you convoke a spell, you get X for number of creatures that convoked
New Mechanics
Boros Mentor When a Creature with Mentor attacks another attacking creature with lesser power gets +1/+1 counter
Dimir Surveil Graveyard Scry, scrying but card goes to the graveyard.
Izzet Jump-Start cast an instant or sorcery from the graveyard Discard a card as part of the cost
Golgari Undergrowth. Bonus for number of creatures in your graveyard.
Convoke is good on good cards, bad on bad cards, so this will depend on the card itself.
Mentor is just another counter based thing, unless we get a bunch of Amonkhet style cards that interact with counters then meh.
Surveil, The front side of Search for Azcanta is a good card all on it's own, I bet we get at least one cheap cantrip that ends up restricted in vintage with this effect
Jump-Start, Flashback is good, being able to trade a card in hand you can't use for an effect that is good will likely be good somewhere, and it feeds itself.
Undergrowth is Threshold/Delerium, two mechanics that did powerful things this likely won't be weak.
I think Jump-Start has some legitimate potential. The added cost of discarding a card means that cards with Jump-Start are possibly a little more aggressively costed than your average flashback card, with a little more flexibility than the average retrace card.
Compare Engulfing Flames and Flame Jab. We could conceivably see a Jump-Start spell as a halfway point between the two, something along the lines of:
Engulfing Jab R
Instant
Deal 1 Damage to any Target.
Jump-Start
So, Cheaper than Engulfing Flames to cast a second time, due to the additional cost of discarding a card. At the same time, its still slightly easier to recast than Flame Jab since ANY card can be discarded rather than just a land, although you can only recast it once rather than repeatedly.
Factoring in the ability to use the discard cost to fill your gy, chain future Jump-Start spells, or enable madness cards, there is conceivably some REAL potential within the mechanic.
Winner winner, chicken dinner. Flashback should always be overcosted since it's an instant access recast. Retrace was turning your worst dead cards, lands, into repeatable effects i.e. needs to be overcosted.
I know WotC would want to err on the side of caution here but overcosting is mechanically incorrect; the danger, as always, is in aggressively costing or free.
Haven't posted in about two years...not surprised that Ravnica is what brought me back. Convoke as always is great, Boros is boring as usual (Radiance WAS overcosted as another poster stated but I liked it), Jump-start will be the juice, Surveil is simple, uninspired and powerful while Undergrwoth is another win for Golgari.
Honestly if they're going down that route then I hope the jump start burn spell at least deals 2 damage. Doing just 1 damage feels so disappointing even in casual play since it falls off so fast.
I think this set has an uphill battle vs Dominaria given these mechanics. We got three sets in Rav, though, so it's probably their plan to just shuffle the old mechanics into each set. This first one is getting convoke and I'm betting Battalion and Overload will show up in the later ones. That or maybe they will bring back evolve, simply because it works with Mentor.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I 100% assume there will be cards with either "mentor, Whenever you put a +1/+1 counter on another creature it gains X" or "whenever you mentor a creature do X" as well as cards with "whenever X gains one or more +1/+1 counters, do Y" type cards (I'm looking at you Selesnya).
I think this set has an uphill battle vs Dominaria given these mechanics. We got three sets in Rav, though, so it's probably their plan to just shuffle the old mechanics into each set. This first one is getting convoke and I'm betting Battalion and Overload will show up in the later ones. That or maybe they will bring back evolve, simply because it works with Mentor.
I am not sure that Ravnica has to compete with Dominaria.
Mentor and Convoke will work well with something like History of Benalia, Jump-Start could work really well in something Jihora based where the extra legendary cards can be chucked out for the Jump-Start cost.
My problem with Surveil is that it's going to be in the same Standard environment as Explore, and honestly I think Explore is the better version of the mechanic.
Surveil is exactly that. A worse Explore, BUT, it works great in conjunction with the Explore mechanic. I allready have the sultai shell for it so i can't wait to see the cards and feel how they fit together.
Use surveil triggered abilities to fix the top and use explore to abuse it. I.e. as a pump or ramp when you want to. Sort of
Surveil is exactly that. A worse Explore, BUT, it works great in conjunction with the Explore mechanic. I allready have the sultai shell for it so i can't wait to see the cards and feel how they fit together.
Surveil has the advantage of being able to look at more than one card at once, The terrible person that I am wants to see "Surveil 2 then Draw a card" instant for U to see how quickly it gets banned/restricted
Mentor just outright sucks, Surveil will require you to build around it to make it any good, Jumpstart will probably be irrelevant in every format but Commander unless they make one or two cards that are busted, and Undergrowth could go either way.
Mentor just outright sucks, Surveil will require you to build around it to make it any good, Jumpstart will probably be irrelevant in every format but Commander unless they make one or two cards that are busted, and Undergrowth could go either way.
Yesss. Let the dislike of cards we haven't even seen yet flow.
Sure, there is a chance of spending $4 on a booster and getting the Mythic Rare $30 super card. There is also a chance of surviving putting your tongue in a light socket.
Mentor just outright sucks, Surveil will require you to build around it to make it any good, Jumpstart will probably be irrelevant in every format but Commander unless they make one or two cards that are busted, and Undergrowth could go either way.
Yesss. Let the dislike of cards we haven't even seen yet flow.
Only your hatred can destroy cardboard irrelevant to daily life.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Surveil is exactly that. A worse Explore, BUT, it works great in conjunction with the Explore mechanic. I allready have the sultai shell for it so i can't wait to see the cards and feel how they fit together.
Surveil has the advantage of being able to look at more than one card at once, The terrible person that I am wants to see "Surveil 2 then Draw a card" instant for U to see how quickly it gets banned/restricted
We better get the obvious Opt version but man... your version would be amazing, reminds me of Buried Alive being the great Threshold enabler.
Surveil certainly operates on the same spectrum as Explore but certainly has more potential to be much more powerful. I highly doubt we'll see a triple explore card due to clunkiness and being tied to creatures is limiting. It is definitely not a strictly worse version by any means
Mentor just outright sucks, Surveil will require you to build around it to make it any good, Jumpstart will probably be irrelevant in every format but Commander unless they make one or two cards that are busted, and Undergrowth could go either way.
The Surveil part is funny because you seem to be forgetting that if you don't build around it it's still almost the same as Scry.
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I wonder if Convoke will get something like Inspiring Statuary, an effect on an enchantment or artifact that says something like "creature spells you cast have convoke" or "noncreature spells you cast have convoke"? Either "nonartifact spells you cast have convoke" or "spells you cast have convoke" might be a little too much, though.
Surveil. Searching for Azcanta in all the wrong places.
I just want to see a card carrying each of those mechanics to see how they are written before I reserve final judgement.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
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I think it may be intentional on their part. Maro did mention that Surveil is better than it looks.
I at least know that I will put it in my Damia commander deck, because it is good to selfmill with that one. Could possibly also see play in my Aminatou deck.
---
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Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I figure if we can get 1 cheap “Draw A Card” Jump-Start that will be perfect for when you are being mana flooded. Maybe we will get super lucky and it will be “Draw 2 Cards”. There will definitely be Jump-Start Burn too.
Excited for spoiler season.
I find that it gets exiled or Cast Down way to easily and often.
Dredge is never coming back, it is absurdly powerful to the point where every eternal format deck has to have sideboard hate specifically for the deck.
Hey hey, be fair to Radiance, the actual mechanic for Radiance is pretty good TBH they just WAAAAAAYYY over costed the cards, and it has an interesting design space that could do fun things, like imagine a shock effect for 2R with Radiance but it deals double damage to Hexproof and Shroud creatures, It is a little more expensive than a Pyroclasm but, it has higher reach on creatures that Red can't normally burn.
Convoke is good on good cards, bad on bad cards, so this will depend on the card itself.
Mentor is just another counter based thing, unless we get a bunch of Amonkhet style cards that interact with counters then meh.
Surveil, The front side of Search for Azcanta is a good card all on it's own, I bet we get at least one cheap cantrip that ends up restricted in vintage with this effect
Jump-Start, Flashback is good, being able to trade a card in hand you can't use for an effect that is good will likely be good somewhere, and it feeds itself.
Undergrowth is Threshold/Delerium, two mechanics that did powerful things this likely won't be weak.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
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Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
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Winner winner, chicken dinner. Flashback should always be overcosted since it's an instant access recast. Retrace was turning your worst dead cards, lands, into repeatable effects i.e. needs to be overcosted.
I know WotC would want to err on the side of caution here but overcosting is mechanically incorrect; the danger, as always, is in aggressively costing or free.
Haven't posted in about two years...not surprised that Ravnica is what brought me back. Convoke as always is great, Boros is boring as usual (Radiance WAS overcosted as another poster stated but I liked it), Jump-start will be the juice, Surveil is simple, uninspired and powerful while Undergrwoth is another win for Golgari.
4/5 ain't bad at all I'd say.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I am not sure that Ravnica has to compete with Dominaria.
Mentor and Convoke will work well with something like History of Benalia, Jump-Start could work really well in something Jihora based where the extra legendary cards can be chucked out for the Jump-Start cost.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Surveil is exactly that. A worse Explore, BUT, it works great in conjunction with the Explore mechanic. I allready have the sultai shell for it so i can't wait to see the cards and feel how they fit together.
Use surveil triggered abilities to fix the top and use explore to abuse it. I.e. as a pump or ramp when you want to. Sort of
This will probably see play in decks that draw a bunch of cards.
I'm liking this might go izzet with my Uwizards deck.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Surveil has the advantage of being able to look at more than one card at once, The terrible person that I am wants to see "Surveil 2 then Draw a card" instant for U to see how quickly it gets banned/restricted
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Yesss. Let the dislike of cards we haven't even seen yet flow.
Only your hatred can destroy cardboard irrelevant to daily life.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
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We better get the obvious Opt version but man... your version would be amazing, reminds me of Buried Alive being the great Threshold enabler.
Surveil certainly operates on the same spectrum as Explore but certainly has more potential to be much more powerful. I highly doubt we'll see a triple explore card due to clunkiness and being tied to creatures is limiting. It is definitely not a strictly worse version by any means
The Surveil part is funny because you seem to be forgetting that if you don't build around it it's still almost the same as Scry.
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Necromancer (or Noob)
Cat.
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