Shaeli essentially lets you cast artifacts for free. That HAS to amount to something, in a format with so many infamous artifact-based combos.
Windgrace looks really cool, and the Bant lady is nice, although I'm not a fan of the idea of Bant Enchantress in general. The Esper kid is just weird o.O
I agree that Saheeli is awesome. The cost reduction is also a + ability. It can also float so you can hold a spell up to cast at instant speed. Based off of what's been shown so far the Izzet deck I think will be the best.
I may be the only one who doesn't like Estrid for her art. It feels so uninspired. I thought she was originally some kind of shapeshifter and that's why she looks so emotionless, but she looks bored that these masks are floating around her. It also means that Tamiyo and Serra may not be included. :(.
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A legacy of lies,
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Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
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Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Saheli is ok but we'd need to get something stupidly broken to take over Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain as the best UR artifact commander.
The best way to look at it, is don't compare apples to oranges.
There are broken plays to be made with Saheli. I've already put a shell together of a "Turbo Extra Turns" deck. Her ability to cast extra turns cards easily, means that you can use a strategy of using Howling Mine, Dictate of Kruphix, Kami of the Cresent Moon, etc, to fill in your card draw as you look to get multiple land drops over your opponents, while also building up Saheli for a potential ultimate. Now the ultimate can be a little lackluster, but I'm using cheap cantrip type artifacts, so you can get a lot of draw off them. Sundial of the Infinite means you can keep them all.
the tears over Estrid are ridiculous. Why were people even assuming Serra was in this product? Windgrace is and there's no reason for a commander product to use more than one of the ye oldie iconic characters.
Estrid is also by far the most interesting card here, but I guess that's because I like Auras. There are plenty of cheap creature auras, zendikons and genjus to make her +2 be useful, and giving anything on the board Totem Armor is pretty great.
Uhm, yes? You give to an opponent a couple of permanent, steal all their fatties, then you aso get back your couple of permanents and leave them with nothing?
I mean, for a 3 mana walker that can be casted repeatedly what do you expect? Yeah she is stoppable. Learn to play, learn to build in a way that it's hard t stop her. You can't pretend to have the single card doing all the work, you have the other 99 too.
Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Homeward Path probably not as good as you think, as you're just handing back every bodies creatures back to each other. About the best trick of using it, is to stop an attack during combat, as they will seize to be attacking, but that is pretty weak.
I've already pointed out some stuff with Felidar Guardian in a previous post. But just to reiterate will allow infinites with The Chain Veil and Oath of Teferi, as you can use one of the PW activates to blink out say a land for infinite mana, or maybe you have a draw card like Oath of Jace to draw your deck. The other ability is of course used for Felidar Guardian so you will always get a "fresh" copy of Aminatou, the Fateshifer, meaning you can use her [-1] twice every time.
Homeward Path probably not as good as you think, as you're just handing back every bodies creatures back to each other. About the best trick of using it, is to stop an attack during combat, as they will seize to be attacking, but that is pretty weak.
I've already pointed out some stuff with Felidar Guardian in a previous post. But just to reiterate will allow infinites with The Chain Veil and Oath of Teferi, as you can use one of the PW activates to blink out say a land for infinite mana, or maybe you have a draw card like Oath of Jace to draw your deck. The other ability is of course used for Felidar Guardian so you will always get a "fresh" copy of Aminatou, the Fateshifer, meaning you can use her [-1] twice every time.
Sorry I have a cold and it's made my brain foggy lol. That is cool with the chain veil and oath. I think her -1 is probably where I would build her off of if I buy the esper deck.
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Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Uhm, yes? You give to an opponent a couple of permanent, steal all their fatties, then you aso get back your couple of permanents and leave them with nothing?
I mean, for a 3 mana walker that can be casted repeatedly what do you expect? Yeah she is stoppable. Learn to play, learn to build in a way that it's hard t stop her. You can't pretend to have the single card doing all the work, you have the other 99 too.
So, let's just summarize your trip to Magical Christmas Land. What you need is:
Make your Planeswalker survive 3 turns in a multiplayer game, without taking any damage
Only using her underwhelming +1 ability to do so
Not having a sizable board that will benefit an opponent as you shift your permanents away...
...while still having a single permanent worth returning to your control...
...but STILL having enough stuff to protect her somehow, because she can't do it herself
An opponent actually having a board worth shifting into in either your left or right
Enough mana to recast her after Ulting, so you can immediately -1 her
And what you get if EVERY step above succeeds? One of the cards you gave away come back. Congratulations, you do that while I'll be here playing Estrid and casting my one-sided, non-Artifact Open the Vaults without having to rely on my opponent's board. Sure, she costs 1 mana more, but requires 1 turn less to Ultimate, so...
Uhm, yes? You give to an opponent a couple of permanent, steal all their fatties, then you aso get back your couple of permanents and leave them with nothing?
I mean, for a 3 mana walker that can be casted repeatedly what do you expect? Yeah she is stoppable. Learn to play, learn to build in a way that it's hard t stop her. You can't pretend to have the single card doing all the work, you have the other 99 too.
So, let's just summarize your trip to Magical Christmas Land. What you need is:
Make your Planeswalker survive 3 turns in a multiplayer game, without taking any damage
Only using her underwhelming +1 ability to do so
Not having a sizable board that will benefit an opponent as you shift your permanents away...
...while still having a single permanent worth returning to your control...
...but STILL having enough stuff to protect her somehow, because she can't do it herself
An opponent actually having a board worth shifting into in either your left or right
Enough mana to recast her after Ulting, so you can immediately -1 her
And what you get if EVERY step above succeeds? One of the cards you gave away come back. Congratulations, you do that while I'll be here playing Estrid and casting my one-sided, non-Artifact Open the Vaults without having to rely on my opponent's board. Sure, she costs 1 mana more, but requires 1 turn less to Ultimate, so...
OK, I think you're being short-sighted here.
Estrid, the Masked [+2] literally does nothing without other cards. She also does not protect herself. She takes 3 turns to ultimate. Even your ultimate might fail to produce anything of worth.
These planeswalkers both have "what if's", but with the right deck design are both interesting and powerful.
If you read through the posts so far, Estrid, the Masked getting dumped upon big time, but this is just because people are not seeing a greater deck design. So might pay to hold off on saying the same thing about Aminatou's until you've thought about deck content and design.
Bant is a powerful set of colors for Enchantress Auras, Her +2 can make her effectively free if you include land enchants (why not?), and her -1 is exactly what you want in Enchantress as it protects whatever you are enchanting from being nuked.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Bant is a powerful set of colors for Enchantress Auras, Her +2 can make her effectively free if you include land enchants (why not?), and her -1 is exactly what you want in Enchantress as it protects whatever you are enchanting from being nuked.
I can't speak for everyone but I run Sigarda 1.0 as an enchantment commander and the build doesn't really involve going wide or protecting lots of creatures - it's basically play Sigarda, maybe play an Enchantress or two, and start drawing and slapping enchants on Siggy so I can mash face.
Estrid is a confusing commander. Why should I go to all the trouble of building up a huge army of creatures, each with auras on them, when instead I could use anthems and get a wider effect? It doesn't make sense.
Bant is a powerful set of colors for Enchantress Auras, Her +2 can make her effectively free if you include land enchants (why not?), and her -1 is exactly what you want in Enchantress as it protects whatever you are enchanting from being nuked.
I can't speak for everyone but I run Sigarda 1.0 as an enchantment commander and the build doesn't really involve going wide or protecting lots of creatures - it's basically play Sigarda, maybe play an Enchantress or two, and start drawing and slapping enchants on Siggy so I can mash face.
I don't get the feeling that Estrid is an Aura commander, per se - it seems like anthems and global enchants would be more what she's about. You don't enchant each creature, you just enchant ALL of them.
Except her +2 is specifically on auras. And her -1 makes an aura as well. She really feels like an Aura Enchantress Ala Bruna. If you utilize Auras, she effectively gives your creatures vigilience. Or if they have special tap abilities, she can abuse those abilities.
What is funny is that she also works well with Theft echantments
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Bant is a powerful set of colors for Enchantress Auras, Her +2 can make her effectively free if you include land enchants (why not?), and her -1 is exactly what you want in Enchantress as it protects whatever you are enchanting from being nuked.
I can't speak for everyone but I run Sigarda 1.0 as an enchantment commander and the build doesn't really involve going wide or protecting lots of creatures - it's basically play Sigarda, maybe play an Enchantress or two, and start drawing and slapping enchants on Siggy so I can mash face.
I don't get the feeling that Estrid is an Aura commander, per se - it seems like anthems and global enchants would be more what she's about. You don't enchant each creature, you just enchant ALL of them.
Except her +2 is specifically on auras. And her -1 makes an aura as well. She really feels like an Aura Enchantress Ala Bruna. If you utilize Auras, she effectively gives your creatures vigilience. Or if they have special tap abilities, she can abuse those abilities.
What is funny is that she also works well with Theft echantments
So the game plan with Estrid would be something like:
Mana-gen auras on lands, use her +2 to untap tapped lands, cast more auras/creatures.
Use her second ability to blunt targeted removal.
Use ult after a wrath? Or just when you need auras? I dunno.
She might be fun. I would like getting two bites at the apple with regards to untapping enchanted lands.
Oh yeah if you have Aminatou, the Fateshifer on say 4 loyalty, then you can cast Deepglow Skate bringing it up to 8, then [-1] blink the Deepglow Skate to get her up to 14 loyalty quite easily. You can do this for a couple of turns (50 loyalty) if you wanted to have counters for the rest of the game, and not care about creatures attacking her.
This is why people look at bad cards and say "Must be for EDH."
Well, it is nice to have a format where anything (within reason) is possible.
I also don't think most people playing EDH (or for that reason, Magic in general) use suboptimal cards unless they of course can't afford better or don't know better.
Uhm, yes? You give to an opponent a couple of permanent, steal all their fatties, then you aso get back your couple of permanents and leave them with nothing?
I mean, for a 3 mana walker that can be casted repeatedly what do you expect? Yeah she is stoppable. Learn to play, learn to build in a way that it's hard t stop her. You can't pretend to have the single card doing all the work, you have the other 99 too.
So, let's just summarize your trip to Magical Christmas Land. What you need is:
Make your Planeswalker survive 3 turns in a multiplayer game, without taking any damage
Only using her underwhelming +1 ability to do so
Not having a sizable board that will benefit an opponent as you shift your permanents away...
...while still having a single permanent worth returning to your control...
...but STILL having enough stuff to protect her somehow, because she can't do it herself
An opponent actually having a board worth shifting into in either your left or right
Enough mana to recast her after Ulting, so you can immediately -1 her
And what you get if EVERY step above succeeds? One of the cards you gave away come back. Congratulations, you do that while I'll be here playing Estrid and casting my one-sided, non-Artifact Open the Vaults without having to rely on my opponent's board. Sure, she costs 1 mana more, but requires 1 turn less to Ultimate, so...
OK, I think you're being short-sighted here.
Estrid, the Masked [+2] literally does nothing without other cards. She also does not protect herself. She takes 3 turns to ultimate. Even your ultimate might fail to produce anything of worth.
These planeswalkers both have "what if's", but with the right deck design are both interesting and powerful.
If you read through the posts so far, Estrid, the Masked getting dumped upon big time, but this is just because people are not seeing a greater deck design. So might pay to hold off on saying the same thing about Aminatou's until you've thought about deck content and design.
Estrid actually has a game plan that rewards you to protect her. Getting strong cards to protect Estrid to Ultimate means you get more targets to Mask. In other words, she has synergy between her game plan and her being a Planeswalker. Yes, her +2 is her most underwhelming aspect, but she as a card provides the resources (Masks) so that it's actually useful without outside support. Finally, her Ultimate provides a mill on her own so that, even in the worst case scenario, it can potentially give you some benefit in a pinch.
With Aminatou, you're actively trying to make your board as bad as possible to not give your opponent too many good cards, while still having just enough cards to protect her and having an opponent's board worth stealing in either your left or right, a board that for some reason didn't just punched Aminatou in the face as soon as she got to Ultimate range. And if none of your opponents have anything worth stealing, then Ultimating her will hurt you instead. And you want to do all that while building a deck that has synergy with her -1, because otherwise that effect is wasted and does nothing, because unlike Estrid, she has no inherent synergy between her own effects.
With Estrid, you're jumping through the hoops to make her good. With Aminatou, you're jumping through the hoops to make her work.
Plus, your math is off. Drop Estrid, +2, she goes to {5} immediately, then {7} on her 1st turn and Ultimates on her 2nd. That's 2 turns that she needs to survive on the board, 1 less than Aminatou's Ultimate, making Aminatou's 1 cost less irrelevant to the Ultimate equation. Yes, you shouldn't rely on your Ultimates, reason why I keep saying that relying on the "synergy" between Aminatou's Ultimate and -1 is stupid.
Uhm, yes? You give to an opponent a couple of permanent, steal all their fatties, then you aso get back your couple of permanents and leave them with nothing?
I mean, for a 3 mana walker that can be casted repeatedly what do you expect? Yeah she is stoppable. Learn to play, learn to build in a way that it's hard t stop her. You can't pretend to have the single card doing all the work, you have the other 99 too.
So, let's just summarize your trip to Magical Christmas Land. What you need is:
Make your Planeswalker survive 3 turns in a multiplayer game, without taking any damage
Only using her underwhelming +1 ability to do so
Not having a sizable board that will benefit an opponent as you shift your permanents away...
...while still having a single permanent worth returning to your control...
...but STILL having enough stuff to protect her somehow, because she can't do it herself
An opponent actually having a board worth shifting into in either your left or right
Enough mana to recast her after Ulting, so you can immediately -1 her
And what you get if EVERY step above succeeds? One of the cards you gave away come back. Congratulations, you do that while I'll be here playing Estrid and casting my one-sided, non-Artifact Open the Vaults without having to rely on my opponent's board. Sure, she costs 1 mana more, but requires 1 turn less to Ultimate, so...
OK, I think you're being short-sighted here.
Estrid, the Masked [+2] literally does nothing without other cards. She also does not protect herself. She takes 3 turns to ultimate. Even your ultimate might fail to produce anything of worth.
These planeswalkers both have "what if's", but with the right deck design are both interesting and powerful.
If you read through the posts so far, Estrid, the Masked getting dumped upon big time, but this is just because people are not seeing a greater deck design. So might pay to hold off on saying the same thing about Aminatou's until you've thought about deck content and design.
Estrid actually has a game plan that rewards you to protect her. Getting strong cards to protect Estrid to Ultimate means you get more targets to Mask. In other words, she has synergy between her game plan and her being a Planeswalker. Yes, her +2 is her most underwhelming aspect, but she as a card provides the resources (Masks) so that it's actually useful without outside support. Finally, her Ultimate provides a mill on her own so that, even in the worst case scenario, it can potentially give you some benefit in a pinch.
With Aminatou, you're actively trying to make your board as bad as possible to not give your opponent too many good cards, while still having just enough cards to protect her and having an opponent's board worth stealing in either your left or right, a board that for some reason didn't just punched Aminatou in the face as soon as she got to Ultimate range. And if none of your opponents have anything worth stealing, then Ultimating her will hurt you instead. And you want to do all that while building a deck that has synergy with her -1, because otherwise that effect is wasted and does nothing, because unlike Estrid, she has no inherent synergy between her own effects.
With Estrid, you're jumping through the hoops to make her good. With Aminatou, you're jumping through the hoops to make her work.
Plus, your math is off. Drop Estrid, +2, she goes to {5} immediately, then {7} on her 1st turn and Ultimates on her 2nd. That's 2 turns that she needs to survive on the board, 1 less than Aminatou's Ultimate, making Aminatou's 1 cost less irrelevant to the Ultimate equation. Yes, you shouldn't rely on your Ultimates, reason why I keep saying that relying on the "synergy" between Aminatou's Ultimate and -1 is stupid.
I'm pretty sure your math is off. Cast Estrid, she ETBs at {3}. +2 she goes to {5}. Next turn +2 she goes to {7}. Next turn -7. Three turns to ult, not two.
Just because you have Aminatou's ultimate available doesn't mean you need to use it, you can wait till you draw a Eerie Interlude, or Teferi's Protection, or Ghostway, or say a Parallax Wave. In the three colors that have access to tutors for any one of these cards or all of them at the same time(Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor. All three of these cards also synergies with Aminatou's "Top Deck matters" theme as well). Sure Aminatou is not a play me and use my abilities until you Ult and win the game kind of PW/Commander, but she doesn't need to be. She's a value engine that comes down T3 and has two powerful value effects as well as an Ultimate that can win you the game if you have some creativity in how you build/play your deck.
Estrid actually has a game plan that rewards you to protect her. Getting strong cards to protect Estrid to Ultimate means you get more targets to Mask. In other words, she has synergy between her game plan and her being a Planeswalker. Yes, her +2 is her most underwhelming aspect, but she as a card provides the resources (Masks) so that it's actually useful without outside support. Finally, her Ultimate provides a mill on her own so that, even in the worst case scenario, it can potentially give you some benefit in a pinch.
With Aminatou, you're actively trying to make your board as bad as possible to not give your opponent too many good cards, while still having just enough cards to protect her and having an opponent's board worth stealing in either your left or right, a board that for some reason didn't just punched Aminatou in the face as soon as she got to Ultimate range. And if none of your opponents have anything worth stealing, then Ultimating her will hurt you instead. And you want to do all that while building a deck that has synergy with her -1, because otherwise that effect is wasted and does nothing, because unlike Estrid, she has no inherent synergy between her own effects.
With Estrid, you're jumping through the hoops to make her good. With Aminatou, you're jumping through the hoops to make her work.
Plus, your math is off. Drop Estrid, +2, she goes to {5} immediately, then {7} on her 1st turn and Ultimates on her 2nd. That's 2 turns that she needs to survive on the board, 1 less than Aminatou's Ultimate, making Aminatou's 1 cost less irrelevant to the Ultimate equation. Yes, you shouldn't rely on your Ultimates, reason why I keep saying that relying on the "synergy" between Aminatou's Ultimate and -1 is stupid.
I'm pretty sure your math is off. Cast Estrid, she ETBs at {3}. +2 she goes to {5}. Next turn +2 she goes to {7}. Next turn -7. Three turns to ult, not two.
Just because you have Aminatou's ultimate available doesn't mean you need to use it, you can wait till you draw a Eerie Interlude, or Teferi's Protection, or Ghostway, or say a Parallax Wave. In the three colors that have access to tutors for any one of these cards or all of them at the same time(Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor. All three of these cards also synergies with Aminatou's "Top Deck matters" theme as well). Sure Aminatou is not a play me and use my abilities until you Ult and win the game kind of PW/Commander, but she doesn't need to be. She's a value engine that comes down T3 and has two powerful value effects as well as an Ultimate that can win you the game if you have some creativity in how you build/play your deck.
I said she needs to survive 2 turns to Ult. By the time she hits the board, your opponent has 2 of his turns to deal with her, and that's what really matters. And once she Ults, the turn isn't over either, so it would be incorrect to say she "takes" a 3rd turn to Ult.
As for the rest of the post, once again, using other cards to make Aminatou's abilities work. Tibalt is also good when you load your deck with Graveyard/Discard matters but he's still a bad card. I'm not saying Aminatou is as bad or worse than Tibalt, but it's close. And Aminatou provides no advantage. IF she had an inherent way of providing advantage, then yeah, I'd agree she's good. But she doesn't, her +1 only digs for a single card on its own with no inherent CA (and as a dig ability, it's pretty bad) and her -1 is useless without the right cards. Which, once again, wouldn't be terrible if she could either protect herself OR have a high enough Loyalty / Loyalty Gain to be relevant in the lategame once you assemble the right cards, but once again she doesn't. She's extremely vulnerable on her own, and once she hits the table in a point of the game where she COULD be relevant, your creature-based opponents will have more than enough firepower to kill her.
So, once again, what is the ideal game state for Aminatou to thrive? A stalled Pillowfort board where no opponent can attack Aminatou, despite these same opponents having big threats for you to steal? Not only is this a "best case scenario" which is extremely irrelevant (because all Planeswalkers could benefit from such a board), but it's also bad with her -1, because Pillowfort decks don't usually use powerful ETB effects for her to abuse. Or is it an board full of ETB creatures? Which, as I said, could be the best application for her, but in that case, you're minusing her, which makes her Ult, once again, irrelevant.
Estrid actually has a game plan that rewards you to protect her. Getting strong cards to protect Estrid to Ultimate means you get more targets to Mask. In other words, she has synergy between her game plan and her being a Planeswalker. Yes, her +2 is her most underwhelming aspect, but she as a card provides the resources (Masks) so that it's actually useful without outside support. Finally, her Ultimate provides a mill on her own so that, even in the worst case scenario, it can potentially give you some benefit in a pinch.
With Aminatou, you're actively trying to make your board as bad as possible to not give your opponent too many good cards, while still having just enough cards to protect her and having an opponent's board worth stealing in either your left or right, a board that for some reason didn't just punched Aminatou in the face as soon as she got to Ultimate range. And if none of your opponents have anything worth stealing, then Ultimating her will hurt you instead. And you want to do all that while building a deck that has synergy with her -1, because otherwise that effect is wasted and does nothing, because unlike Estrid, she has no inherent synergy between her own effects.
With Estrid, you're jumping through the hoops to make her good. With Aminatou, you're jumping through the hoops to make her work.
Plus, your math is off. Drop Estrid, +2, she goes to {5} immediately, then {7} on her 1st turn and Ultimates on her 2nd. That's 2 turns that she needs to survive on the board, 1 less than Aminatou's Ultimate, making Aminatou's 1 cost less irrelevant to the Ultimate equation. Yes, you shouldn't rely on your Ultimates, reason why I keep saying that relying on the "synergy" between Aminatou's Ultimate and -1 is stupid.
I'm pretty sure your math is off. Cast Estrid, she ETBs at {3}. +2 she goes to {5}. Next turn +2 she goes to {7}. Next turn -7. Three turns to ult, not two.
Just because you have Aminatou's ultimate available doesn't mean you need to use it, you can wait till you draw a Eerie Interlude, or Teferi's Protection, or Ghostway, or say a Parallax Wave. In the three colors that have access to tutors for any one of these cards or all of them at the same time(Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor. All three of these cards also synergies with Aminatou's "Top Deck matters" theme as well). Sure Aminatou is not a play me and use my abilities until you Ult and win the game kind of PW/Commander, but she doesn't need to be. She's a value engine that comes down T3 and has two powerful value effects as well as an Ultimate that can win you the game if you have some creativity in how you build/play your deck.
I said she needs to survive 2 turns to Ult. By the time she hits the board, your opponent has 2 of his turns to deal with her, and that's what really matters. And once she Ults, the turn isn't over either, so it would be incorrect to say she "takes" a 3rd turn to Ult.
As for the rest of the post, once again, using other cards to make Aminatou's abilities work. Tibalt is also good when you load your deck with Graveyard/Discard matters but he's still a bad card. I'm not saying Aminatou is as bad or worse than Tibalt, but it's close. And Aminatou provides no advantage. IF she had an inherent way of providing advantage, then yeah, I'd agree she's good. But she doesn't, her +1 only digs for a single card on its own with no inherent CA (and as a dig ability, it's pretty bad) and her -1 is useless without the right cards. Which, once again, wouldn't be terrible if she could either protect herself OR have a high enough Loyalty / Loyalty Gain to be relevant in the lategame once you assemble the right cards, but once again she doesn't. She's extremely vulnerable on her own, and once she hits the table in a point of the game where she COULD be relevant, your creature-based opponents will have more than enough firepower to kill her.
So, once again, what is the ideal game state for Aminatou to thrive? A stalled Pillowfort board where no opponent can attack Aminatou, despite these same opponents having big threats for you to steal? Not only is this a "best case scenario" which is extremely irrelevant (because all Planeswalkers could benefit from such a board), but it's also bad with her -1, because Pillowfort decks don't usually use powerful ETB effects for her to abuse. Or is it an board full of ETB creatures? Which, as I said, could be the best application for her, but in that case, you're minusing her, which makes her Ult, once again, irrelevant.
Alright, at this point I think we are mostly speaking on matters of opinion. I see a low-costed value based PW commander with abilities that are synergistic with her colors, and you disagree. When c18 releases I'm planning on building her and will make a thread about it, where you are more than welcome to join the discussion. Who knows, maybe you're right, maybe her abilities aren't enough to justify her fragility but personally I have a good feeling about Aminatou.
Bant is a powerful set of colors for Enchantress Auras, Her +2 can make her effectively free if you include land enchants (why not?), and her -1 is exactly what you want in Enchantress as it protects whatever you are enchanting from being nuked.
I can't speak for everyone but I run Sigarda 1.0 as an enchantment commander and the build doesn't really involve going wide or protecting lots of creatures - it's basically play Sigarda, maybe play an Enchantress or two, and start drawing and slapping enchants on Siggy so I can mash face.
I don't get the feeling that Estrid is an Aura commander, per se - it seems like anthems and global enchants would be more what she's about. You don't enchant each creature, you just enchant ALL of them.
Except her +2 is specifically on auras. And her -1 makes an aura as well. She really feels like an Aura Enchantress Ala Bruna. If you utilize Auras, she effectively gives your creatures vigilience. Or if they have special tap abilities, she can abuse those abilities.
What is funny is that she also works well with Theft echantments
So the game plan with Estrid would be something like:
Mana-gen auras on lands, use her +2 to untap tapped lands, cast more auras/creatures.
Use her second ability to blunt targeted removal.
Use ult after a wrath? Or just when you need auras? I dunno.
She might be fun. I would like getting two bites at the apple with regards to untapping enchanted lands.
I know for my $0.02 I will not be editing my pillow fort control enchantress very much at all and using mostly her +2 for extra mana and her ultimate as a second Open the Vaults. At most, I may slide in a few more enchant lands.
As for the rest of the post, once again, using other cards to make Aminatou's abilities work. Tibalt is also good when you load your deck with Graveyard/Discard matters but he's still a bad card. I'm not saying Aminatou is as bad or worse than Tibalt, but it's close. And Aminatou provides no advantage. IF she had an inherent way of providing advantage, then yeah, I'd agree she's good. But she doesn't, her +1 only digs for a single card on its own with no inherent CA (and as a dig ability, it's pretty bad) and her -1 is useless without the right cards. Which, once again, wouldn't be terrible if she could either protect herself OR have a high enough Loyalty / Loyalty Gain to be relevant in the lategame once you assemble the right cards, but once again she doesn't. She's extremely vulnerable on her own, and once she hits the table in a point of the game where she COULD be relevant, your creature-based opponents will have more than enough firepower to kill her.
So, once again, what is the ideal game state for Aminatou to thrive? A stalled Pillowfort board where no opponent can attack Aminatou, despite these same opponents having big threats for you to steal? Not only is this a "best case scenario" which is extremely irrelevant (because all Planeswalkers could benefit from such a board), but it's also bad with her -1, because Pillowfort decks don't usually use powerful ETB effects for her to abuse. Or is it an board full of ETB creatures? Which, as I said, could be the best application for her, but in that case, you're minusing her, which makes her Ult, once again, irrelevant.
The thing is that you're saying these things, and I'm thinking exactly the same semantics about Estrid. Here is "my" thoughts..
You need to be using other cards to make Estrid's abilities work. Tibalt is also good when you load your deck with Graveyard/Discard matters but he's still a bad card. I'm not saying Estrid's is as bad or worse than Tibalt, but it's close. And Estrid's provides no advantage. IF she had an inherent way of providing advantage, then yeah, I'd agree she's good. But she doesn't, her +2 does nothing on its own with no inherent CA and her -1 is useless without the right cards. Which, once again, wouldn't be terrible if she could either protect herself OR have a high enough Loyalty / Loyalty Gain to be relevant in the lategame once you assemble the right cards, but once again she doesn't. She's extremely vulnerable on her own, and once she hits the table in a point of the game where she COULD be relevant, your creature-based opponents will have more than enough firepower to kill her.
You see how you're just arguing the same points which put Estrid in the same boat?
I personally think both these commanders are powerful with the right decks. I'm building a deck for both of them. I can see where they will shine with the right 99. Aminatou has a few infinites with her [-1] and her access to tutors like Demonic Tutor/Vampiric Tutor will mean that I'll pull them off probably quite consistently. I've built a few enchantment decks before, but Estrid does make me more excited about playing one.
I agree that Saheeli is awesome. The cost reduction is also a + ability. It can also float so you can hold a spell up to cast at instant speed. Based off of what's been shown so far the Izzet deck I think will be the best.
I may be the only one who doesn't like Estrid for her art. It feels so uninspired. I thought she was originally some kind of shapeshifter and that's why she looks so emotionless, but she looks bored that these masks are floating around her. It also means that Tamiyo and Serra may not be included. :(.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
There are broken plays to be made with Saheli. I've already put a shell together of a "Turbo Extra Turns" deck. Her ability to cast extra turns cards easily, means that you can use a strategy of using Howling Mine, Dictate of Kruphix, Kami of the Cresent Moon, etc, to fill in your card draw as you look to get multiple land drops over your opponents, while also building up Saheli for a potential ultimate. Now the ultimate can be a little lackluster, but I'm using cheap cantrip type artifacts, so you can get a lot of draw off them. Sundial of the Infinite means you can keep them all.
Casting an Enter the Infinite, Omniscience, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is something that can be potentially done the following turn you play Saheli.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Estrid is also by far the most interesting card here, but I guess that's because I like Auras. There are plenty of cheap creature auras, zendikons and genjus to make her +2 be useful, and giving anything on the board Totem Armor is pretty great.
Whine harder
Well you can do some mean things like play Homeward Path or pass someone a Demonic Pact. There has to be something degenerate you can do with Felidar Guardian.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
I've already pointed out some stuff with Felidar Guardian in a previous post. But just to reiterate will allow infinites with The Chain Veil and Oath of Teferi, as you can use one of the PW activates to blink out say a land for infinite mana, or maybe you have a draw card like Oath of Jace to draw your deck. The other ability is of course used for Felidar Guardian so you will always get a "fresh" copy of Aminatou, the Fateshifer, meaning you can use her [-1] twice every time.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Aminatou's ultimate is not off-color.
Sorry I have a cold and it's made my brain foggy lol. That is cool with the chain veil and oath. I think her -1 is probably where I would build her off of if I buy the esper deck.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
So, let's just summarize your trip to Magical Christmas Land. What you need is:
And what you get if EVERY step above succeeds? One of the cards you gave away come back. Congratulations, you do that while I'll be here playing Estrid and casting my one-sided, non-Artifact Open the Vaults without having to rely on my opponent's board. Sure, she costs 1 mana more, but requires 1 turn less to Ultimate, so...
Estrid, the Masked [+2] literally does nothing without other cards. She also does not protect herself. She takes 3 turns to ultimate. Even your ultimate might fail to produce anything of worth.
These planeswalkers both have "what if's", but with the right deck design are both interesting and powerful.
If you read through the posts so far, Estrid, the Masked getting dumped upon big time, but this is just because people are not seeing a greater deck design. So might pay to hold off on saying the same thing about Aminatou's until you've thought about deck content and design.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Avarice Totem, Chromeshell Crab, Conjured Currency, Cultural Exchange, Daring Thief, Djinn of Infinite Deceits, Gauntlets of Chaos, Gilded Drake, Juxtapose, Legerdemain, Perplexing Chimera, Phyrexian Infiltrator, Political Trickery, Puca's Mischief, Shifting Borders, Shifting Loyalties, Shrewd Negotiation, Spawnbroker, Switcheroo, Vedalken Plotter.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Bant is a powerful set of colors for Enchantress Auras, Her +2 can make her effectively free if you include land enchants (why not?), and her -1 is exactly what you want in Enchantress as it protects whatever you are enchanting from being nuked.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I can't speak for everyone but I run Sigarda 1.0 as an enchantment commander and the build doesn't really involve going wide or protecting lots of creatures - it's basically play Sigarda, maybe play an Enchantress or two, and start drawing and slapping enchants on Siggy so I can mash face.
Estrid is a confusing commander. Why should I go to all the trouble of building up a huge army of creatures, each with auras on them, when instead I could use anthems and get a wider effect? It doesn't make sense.
Except her +2 is specifically on auras. And her -1 makes an aura as well. She really feels like an Aura Enchantress Ala Bruna. If you utilize Auras, she effectively gives your creatures vigilience. Or if they have special tap abilities, she can abuse those abilities.
What is funny is that she also works well with Theft echantments
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
So the game plan with Estrid would be something like:
Mana-gen auras on lands, use her +2 to untap tapped lands, cast more auras/creatures.
Use her second ability to blunt targeted removal.
Use ult after a wrath? Or just when you need auras? I dunno.
She might be fun. I would like getting two bites at the apple with regards to untapping enchanted lands.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Well, it is nice to have a format where anything (within reason) is possible.
I also don't think most people playing EDH (or for that reason, Magic in general) use suboptimal cards unless they of course can't afford better or don't know better.
Estrid actually has a game plan that rewards you to protect her. Getting strong cards to protect Estrid to Ultimate means you get more targets to Mask. In other words, she has synergy between her game plan and her being a Planeswalker. Yes, her +2 is her most underwhelming aspect, but she as a card provides the resources (Masks) so that it's actually useful without outside support. Finally, her Ultimate provides a mill on her own so that, even in the worst case scenario, it can potentially give you some benefit in a pinch.
With Aminatou, you're actively trying to make your board as bad as possible to not give your opponent too many good cards, while still having just enough cards to protect her and having an opponent's board worth stealing in either your left or right, a board that for some reason didn't just punched Aminatou in the face as soon as she got to Ultimate range. And if none of your opponents have anything worth stealing, then Ultimating her will hurt you instead. And you want to do all that while building a deck that has synergy with her -1, because otherwise that effect is wasted and does nothing, because unlike Estrid, she has no inherent synergy between her own effects.
With Estrid, you're jumping through the hoops to make her good. With Aminatou, you're jumping through the hoops to make her work.
Plus, your math is off. Drop Estrid, +2, she goes to {5} immediately, then {7} on her 1st turn and Ultimates on her 2nd. That's 2 turns that she needs to survive on the board, 1 less than Aminatou's Ultimate, making Aminatou's 1 cost less irrelevant to the Ultimate equation. Yes, you shouldn't rely on your Ultimates, reason why I keep saying that relying on the "synergy" between Aminatou's Ultimate and -1 is stupid.
Just because you have Aminatou's ultimate available doesn't mean you need to use it, you can wait till you draw a Eerie Interlude, or Teferi's Protection, or Ghostway, or say a Parallax Wave. In the three colors that have access to tutors for any one of these cards or all of them at the same time(Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor. All three of these cards also synergies with Aminatou's "Top Deck matters" theme as well). Sure Aminatou is not a play me and use my abilities until you Ult and win the game kind of PW/Commander, but she doesn't need to be. She's a value engine that comes down T3 and has two powerful value effects as well as an Ultimate that can win you the game if you have some creativity in how you build/play your deck.
As for the rest of the post, once again, using other cards to make Aminatou's abilities work. Tibalt is also good when you load your deck with Graveyard/Discard matters but he's still a bad card. I'm not saying Aminatou is as bad or worse than Tibalt, but it's close. And Aminatou provides no advantage. IF she had an inherent way of providing advantage, then yeah, I'd agree she's good. But she doesn't, her +1 only digs for a single card on its own with no inherent CA (and as a dig ability, it's pretty bad) and her -1 is useless without the right cards. Which, once again, wouldn't be terrible if she could either protect herself OR have a high enough Loyalty / Loyalty Gain to be relevant in the lategame once you assemble the right cards, but once again she doesn't. She's extremely vulnerable on her own, and once she hits the table in a point of the game where she COULD be relevant, your creature-based opponents will have more than enough firepower to kill her.
So, once again, what is the ideal game state for Aminatou to thrive? A stalled Pillowfort board where no opponent can attack Aminatou, despite these same opponents having big threats for you to steal? Not only is this a "best case scenario" which is extremely irrelevant (because all Planeswalkers could benefit from such a board), but it's also bad with her -1, because Pillowfort decks don't usually use powerful ETB effects for her to abuse. Or is it an board full of ETB creatures? Which, as I said, could be the best application for her, but in that case, you're minusing her, which makes her Ult, once again, irrelevant.
I know for my $0.02 I will not be editing my pillow fort control enchantress very much at all and using mostly her +2 for extra mana and her ultimate as a second Open the Vaults. At most, I may slide in a few more enchant lands.
You need to be using other cards to make Estrid's abilities work. Tibalt is also good when you load your deck with Graveyard/Discard matters but he's still a bad card. I'm not saying Estrid's is as bad or worse than Tibalt, but it's close. And Estrid's provides no advantage. IF she had an inherent way of providing advantage, then yeah, I'd agree she's good. But she doesn't, her +2 does nothing on its own with no inherent CA and her -1 is useless without the right cards. Which, once again, wouldn't be terrible if she could either protect herself OR have a high enough Loyalty / Loyalty Gain to be relevant in the lategame once you assemble the right cards, but once again she doesn't. She's extremely vulnerable on her own, and once she hits the table in a point of the game where she COULD be relevant, your creature-based opponents will have more than enough firepower to kill her.
You see how you're just arguing the same points which put Estrid in the same boat?
I personally think both these commanders are powerful with the right decks. I'm building a deck for both of them. I can see where they will shine with the right 99. Aminatou has a few infinites with her [-1] and her access to tutors like Demonic Tutor/Vampiric Tutor will mean that I'll pull them off probably quite consistently. I've built a few enchantment decks before, but Estrid does make me more excited about playing one.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith