Which also applys to this creature as well. Ramping into MW means ramping into...anything?
Not trying to argue, but that’s pretty much EDH in a nutshell, s*** gets blown up. It’s free. You didn’t tap out for 8 to whiff/get stone walled. And any competent MW pilot encourages players to blow up their stuff, that’s what the decks all about. I play it, that’s what I want. I’ll just bury the opponents in CA. Having a way to cheat out MW besides the hoops involved with Command Beacon is good. Let’s me keep mana up to protect what I cascade into.
There is literally nothing about his that is “ineffiecnt”. If you’re ramping, you’re just playing this sooner. No need for the hate-train to make a stop here.
Call the golem ramp if you want, you’re still missing the point. You want MW to come down before combat, not after. That’s textbook inefficient.
Yeah, but this Golem gives you a free MW on turn 3/4 instead of hardcasting turn 5/6... You're still missing the point too, free early casts are good always, even if they aren't in the optimal main phase. You still have your mana up to activate Aggravated Assault if you really want to get the instant value, but the cascade cascade so early in the game is worth it anyway.
And if the cascades don’t win you the game on the spot all you’ve done is make MW that much more expensive to cast on subsequent turns, when it actually matters. Seriously, does nobody in your guys’ play groups use removal or sweepers?
Since when do the cascades need to win the game on the spot? I’ve played hundreds of games both with and against MW and rarely do the cascades win the game “in the spot”. That’s not the point of the games. Ramp to 8 and win doesn’t endear yourself to many playgroups. Shoot for value, which means regardless of when the damn card is cast you gain something off of it. It’s not “inefficient”, it’s simply personal preference. If you and your groups relish in ending games as quickly as possible off of one particular card being cast, great. Not the most exciting thing in the world, but who am I to say you can’t do that? Fact is, this is a unique form of ramp that cheats your commander into play. It’s that damn simple. If you are ramping to 8, you have to pass 5. You’ll get to 5 faster ramping just as you will getting to 8, therefore you lose absolutely nothing.
Surprise surpirse, it’s f****** spoiler season and everybody is out here trying to tell you how to play the damn game.
First of all, I don’t appreciate your attitude. I didn’t appreciate it when you told me to think bigger, that I suck, or that I’m narrow-minded, and I don’t appreciate it now.
Second of all, your general lack of context - and inability to grasp the multi-dimensional nuances of EDH - casts a serious shadow over your supposed level of experience with Maelstrom Wanderer. Like I said, maybe your playgroups just don’t do sweepers, but I’ve never played a game where somebody didn’t have a ready answer turns 4-7, the turns you’re hoping to make use out of the golem. Value, card advantage, those are all terrific concepts in a vacuum. In practice, all your little combo is going to do is dump a couple of potentially expensive cards in the graveyard and make your commander that much harder to cast on subsequent turns, turns when interacting with the board state is far more crucial. Do those cascade triggers actually have to win you the game on turns 4-6? Obviously not. But dumping that much value on the board with little or no way of protecting it is a novice mistake, a misplay. My point was that if your gamble doesn’t pay off with an instant win you’ve not only accomplished nothing, you’ve actually set yourself back.
Look, I’m not saying the golem is bad, and I’m certainly not trying to tell anyone how to play the game. If this is the interaction you’ve been thirsting over then follow your bliss, but don’t try to piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. It’s an interesting card with a cool (and mostly harmless effect), but pairing it with Maelstrom Wanderer is an objectively bad play. Go do you.
It's not going to have many decks that want it but in decks that can get to 5 mana by turn 2 and have 10 mana commmanders I think it's probably a slam dunk.
It's not going to have many decks that want it but in decks that can get to 5 mana by turn 2 and have 10 mana commmanders I think it's probably a slam dunk.
It seems good, but it doesn't seem that much more powerful than say Quicksilver Amulet.
Notice how cards like the Amulet, Elvish Piper, Show and Tell, and Sneak Attack all say "from your hand". This is one of the few ways to cheat a card from your command zone for "free". It's not "powerful" but it is "notable"... as there aren't many other effects to compare it to in commander.
As for the Maelstrom Wanderer debate... I would rather wait a few turns to get everything out and instantly attack rather than getting a whole bunch of creatures out early and hoping that nobody has a wrath. Commanders that hinge on big, swingy turns generally thrive more when you minimize the window for enemy interactions (even if that means waiting) and may actively suffer when you bring out all of the small pieces as soon as you can. Similar Example: While I could cast Godo, Bandit Warlord as soon I get to 6 mana, it generally makes more tactical sense to wait until I have 11 mana so I can instantly equip Helm of the Host and go infinite with minimal room for interaction. While I could probably play the pieces one at a time and win a couple turns earlier if everything goes right, I am painting a giant bulls-eye on my head and the odds are high that at least one of my opponents will disrupt me (making me less likely to win in the long run).
Seems fun and casual. Eats a bit of life and a free spell with lands open.
You can already do CCMDR shenanigans with Dream Halls though.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I prefer these generic kind of cards be reprints instead, and save the new cards for something interesting, like Legends, or solving issues Angels have in EDH (casting Avacyn off this isn't what I have in mind) or solving mono-white in general. Perhaps the idea is a fun way to overcome cast burdens for generals like Progenitus or something. But not sure it's the best approach for those. Just not really seeing it for my decks. It's a fun concept nonetheless, trying to make it connect early. In artifacts it can come down early too, but those don't play splashy generals.
I mean you could even play additional attack cards, so that you get another attack in with Geode Golem and maybe a sacrifice outlet to recast MW again. If you did put other creatures into play then they would be able to attack.
I just think you've gone a bit overboard with your attack phase is the important part of MW, because it isn't. Getting value, and positioning yourself to a threshold of mana so that you can recast it multiple times, is where usually games are won.
I think you also have to look at this card in terms of commanders that also require spending mana to get value out of them.
An example of this is something that is quite expensive like Firesong and Sunspeaker. Now it's not the most expensive commnader at 6 mana, but the card does nothing by itself, unless you cast a spell. Geode Golem is the sort of card that allows you to spend mana, cast spells, etc on the same turn your commander comes into play.
So it will pay for people to not only think in terms high mana cost commanders, but also those that really want to be getting value the turn the come into play, via spells or activated abilities requiring mana.
My Will and Rowan Kenrith deck, does have problems with playing out planewalkers and protecting them. But it's possible with a card like Geode Golem, that I can cast out both of them (I understand I'll have to pay the full cost for one), but allows me to combine them on the same turn, so I might be able to clear the smaller creatures with a Rowan [-2] ability, and then also use Will [+2] to lock down two creatures who are untapped and/or bigger than 3 toughness. It's the freeing up of additional mana which can be super important.
I mean you could even play additional attack cards, so that you get another attack in with Geode Golem and maybe a sacrifice outlet to recast MW again. If you did put other creatures into play then they would be able to attack.
I just think you've gone a bit overboard with your attack phase is the important part of MW, because it isn't. Getting value, and positioning yourself to a threshold of mana so that you can recast it multiple times, is where usually games are won.
Still not exactly my point. I get what makes Maelstrom Wanderer good, I really do. Other people seem to be having a hard time understanding that everything that makes MW good is better before the combat phase. Dropping the golem on any turn represents an opportunity cost (how many other excellent spells cost 5?), and then you still have to hope he survives a turn before connecting with someone’s face. That’s too many hoops to jump through to justify a card that’s ostensibly mediocre at best, and detrimental at worst.
I would love to play this guy in my Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger deck. Mana rock heavy opener with this guy and boots of some kind sounds pretty great. I think he's going to be a mostly niche creature card, but he's interesting at least. I fully expect to this guy pop-up in my LGS pods and have to explain over and over about commander tax still being a thing though.
Can you explain to me why Kozilek, the great distortion is not on your list you literally get your hand back when you cast that one and counterspell on a stick if you have the right card
Because new Koz' draws you cards til you have 7. But, only in this scenario, I want all 4 (or 8) triggers to be useful.
It looks like good insurance for Rakdos, Lord of Riots, as you can cast it for free easily off Rakdos, then it's a bad spot for opponents to remove the commander unless they are also removing Geode Golem. It allows you to get the damage component out of it's trample to recast Raxdos for whatever the commander tax is. I like it because you don't care too much about how much the commander tax is, as you'll get the cost reduction for other creatures in second main, so don't need mana.
With this golem thing being #56, this either means that we won't get new lands (or any artifacts starting with a letter that comes after G in the alphabet), or that they upped the number of newly made cards again. In the last three releases there would be only 56 new cards in total, compared to 2014, where we've got 61 new cards (2013 and 2012 got us 51 new cards each).
it'll almost never connect. any commander that really needs to be cheated into play with this thing will immediately be apparent to the entire table and they will do anything and everything they can to stop it from hitting. it has no built in evasion, and don't even with the argument that you'll give it some form of evasion because now you're building around making this bad card good instead of building your deck around your commander. its toughness is nothing and its an artifact creature, the easiest thing in the format to kill.
Trample is literally printed on the card.
Edit: bold is my emphasis.
Yeah that trample is very relevant. It means that if it even survives only one turn, he will sure resolve his ability, unless all opponents got superfatty blockers, it's enough just 1 of his 5 damages to make magic happens.
And if it dies, blue don't care. Neither black actually. Artifacts creatures are the easiest thing to blow up? sure, but are also very easy to recur again from grave too.
it'll almost never connect. any commander that really needs to be cheated into play with this thing will immediately be apparent to the entire table and they will do anything and everything they can to stop it from hitting. it has no built in evasion, and don't even with the argument that you'll give it some form of evasion because now you're building around making this bad card good instead of building your deck around your commander. its toughness is nothing and its an artifact creature, the easiest thing in the format to kill.
Trample is literally printed on the card.
Edit: bold is my emphasis.
Yeah that trample is very relevant. It means that if it even survives only one turn, he will sure resolve his ability, unless all opponents got superfatty blockers, it's enough just 1 of his 5 damages to make magic happens.
And if it dies, blue don't care. Neither black actually. Artifacts creatures are the easiest thing to blow up? sure, but are also very easy to recur again from grave too.
First of all, I don’t appreciate your attitude. I didn’t appreciate it when you told me to think bigger, that I suck, or that I’m narrow-minded, and I don’t appreciate it now.
Second of all, your general lack of context - and inability to grasp the multi-dimensional nuances of EDH - casts a serious shadow over your supposed level of experience with Maelstrom Wanderer. Like I said, maybe your playgroups just don’t do sweepers, but I’ve never played a game where somebody didn’t have a ready answer turns 4-7, the turns you’re hoping to make use out of the golem. Value, card advantage, those are all terrific concepts in a vacuum. In practice, all your little combo is going to do is dump a couple of potentially expensive cards in the graveyard and make your commander that much harder to cast on subsequent turns, turns when interacting with the board state is far more crucial. Do those cascade triggers actually have to win you the game on turns 4-6? Obviously not. But dumping that much value on the board with little or no way of protecting it is a novice mistake, a misplay. My point was that if your gamble doesn’t pay off with an instant win you’ve not only accomplished nothing, you’ve actually set yourself back.
Look, I’m not saying the golem is bad, and I’m certainly not trying to tell anyone how to play the game. If this is the interaction you’ve been thirsting over then follow your bliss, but don’t try to piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. It’s an interesting card with a cool (and mostly harmless effect), but pairing it with Maelstrom Wanderer is an objectively bad play. Go do you.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
It's not going to have many decks that want it but in decks that can get to 5 mana by turn 2 and have 10 mana commmanders I think it's probably a slam dunk.
Fixed it for you
Take your pick
Land + mana crypt + mana vault there you go
Notice how cards like the Amulet, Elvish Piper, Show and Tell, and Sneak Attack all say "from your hand". This is one of the few ways to cheat a card from your command zone for "free". It's not "powerful" but it is "notable"... as there aren't many other effects to compare it to in commander.
As for the Maelstrom Wanderer debate... I would rather wait a few turns to get everything out and instantly attack rather than getting a whole bunch of creatures out early and hoping that nobody has a wrath. Commanders that hinge on big, swingy turns generally thrive more when you minimize the window for enemy interactions (even if that means waiting) and may actively suffer when you bring out all of the small pieces as soon as you can.
Similar Example: While I could cast Godo, Bandit Warlord as soon I get to 6 mana, it generally makes more tactical sense to wait until I have 11 mana so I can instantly equip Helm of the Host and go infinite with minimal room for interaction. While I could probably play the pieces one at a time and win a couple turns earlier if everything goes right, I am painting a giant bulls-eye on my head and the odds are high that at least one of my opponents will disrupt me (making me less likely to win in the long run).
You can already do CCMDR shenanigans with Dream Halls though.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I mean you could even play additional attack cards, so that you get another attack in with Geode Golem and maybe a sacrifice outlet to recast MW again. If you did put other creatures into play then they would be able to attack.
I just think you've gone a bit overboard with your attack phase is the important part of MW, because it isn't. Getting value, and positioning yourself to a threshold of mana so that you can recast it multiple times, is where usually games are won.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
An example of this is something that is quite expensive like Firesong and Sunspeaker. Now it's not the most expensive commnader at 6 mana, but the card does nothing by itself, unless you cast a spell. Geode Golem is the sort of card that allows you to spend mana, cast spells, etc on the same turn your commander comes into play.
So it will pay for people to not only think in terms high mana cost commanders, but also those that really want to be getting value the turn the come into play, via spells or activated abilities requiring mana.
My Will and Rowan Kenrith deck, does have problems with playing out planewalkers and protecting them. But it's possible with a card like Geode Golem, that I can cast out both of them (I understand I'll have to pay the full cost for one), but allows me to combine them on the same turn, so I might be able to clear the smaller creatures with a Rowan [-2] ability, and then also use Will [+2] to lock down two creatures who are untapped and/or bigger than 3 toughness. It's the freeing up of additional mana which can be super important.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Still not exactly my point. I get what makes Maelstrom Wanderer good, I really do. Other people seem to be having a hard time understanding that everything that makes MW good is better before the combat phase. Dropping the golem on any turn represents an opportunity cost (how many other excellent spells cost 5?), and then you still have to hope he survives a turn before connecting with someone’s face. That’s too many hoops to jump through to justify a card that’s ostensibly mediocre at best, and detrimental at worst.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Nor white