They would more likely do a Drider planeswalker than a nonhumanoid Spider planeswalker. That way you have the obvious Spider theme while also having some humanoid traits convenient for storytelling purposes.
Boy, I wish they'd do this, but I doubt they will.
I'm just surprised that "Drider" works as a reference on a public forum,
but I guess I'm not the only one here who read Homeland.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I fully agree with you and I have asked Maro this same question here (attachment). I didn't like the answer, but that explains why we get a generic esper zombie or Kess instead of relevant characters or lore references to the past.
On the other side I disagree with your O-kagachi argument, O-Kagachi can be the most powerful entity of Kamigawa, yet not powerful enough compared to other beings from other worlds, the ur-dragon besides is almost like a cosmic entity. In fact the myojin of night's reach punished toshiro because it felt weak when it discovered other worlds.
I fully agree with you and I have asked Maro this same question here (attachment). I didn't like the answer, but that explains why we get a generic esper zombie or Kess instead of relevant characters or lore references to the past.
On the other side I disagree with your O-kagachi argument, O-Kagachi can be the most powerful entity of Kamigawa, yet not powerful enough compared to other beings from other worlds, the ur-dragon besides is almost like a cosmic entity. In fact the myojin of night's reach punished toshiro because it felt weak when it discovered other worlds.
So you're the one who asked that question. I was really pleased someone did, so props to you. I also was not pleased with MaRo's response here, which was very disappointing. I disagree with his reasoning there for sure.
Also, you're incorrect about some Kamigawa lore. The Sisters who succeeded O-Kagachi were capable of blocking even Oldwalkers from entering Kamigawa outright, and O-Kagachi gave them a run for their money in battle, even without his divinity. O-Kagachi's sheer size was constantly emphasized in the lore. And he has 8 heads, the least he could be is an 8/8. He really should have been 10/10 as well, regardless of CMC. Also, the Myojin of Night's Reach did not feel inferior upon visiting other planes. On the contrary. She discovered ways to empower herself more, and acquire more followers and cults. In fact, she punished Toshiro for inadvertently ending the Kami War, knowing the Sisters would re-write the magical laws of Kamigawa, and forbid Night from visiting other planes again.
I for one am excited for the prospect of a new spider legend. My Ishkanah deck has been in limbo for over a year waiting for more usable cards. But I think its still too early to speculate, as we only have a picture. Its obviously jund, but the art doesn't speak legendary, if you now what I mean.
Yes I have been asking him consistently about this issue for months. Different questions of course. Like for example why create generic card art when you can put a known character or world reference, and the same for flavor texts. Even if the art doesn't match lore from any older plane, you can always put a flavor text from a known planeswalker. I also asked if they will always reference more popular worlds, and he also said that the harsh reality is that unpopular world will always get less focus.
...You're original post appeared to recommend throwing a random Izzet artifact legend into a 5-color deck that isn't about artifacts... right after wishing that these decks didn't have strict themes. While I apologize for reading too deeply into this, I hope you can see how things might appear.
If you want your legends to be random good-stuff, I'm all for that. If you want to put a moratorium on creating brand new legends for commander, it might give the design team a real challenge but I wouldn't oppose that.
And my other criticism is, we get new Legends every single set. I was so annoyed with last year, Runo Stormkirk ended up becoming "random nobody Grixis Legend because colors" for basically no reason. Let Commander be about finally getting the cards we can't get anywhere else, from past lore. And leave the new, random, nobodies for other sets. Where have we seen Inalla again? Who the hell is Kess? Kess's entire card could have been Runo Stormkirk (right down to powerful vampires having Flying on Innistrad) and made so many people happy, only to be a Random at the last minute for no reason. And why weren't more prominent Wizards from lore, like Choryu, in the Wizard deck last year?
I for one was happy with seeing a legend from Alara. I love the plane and wish we'd see more of it. On the other hand, Innistrad has gotten so much exposure over the years and even got some vampire legends in that very same set. I could not care less about yet another boring vampire legend (even if it was Grixis and a vampire wizard).
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
I for one was happy with seeing a legend from Alara. I love the plane and wish we'd see more of it. On the other hand, Innistrad has gotten so much exposure over the years and even got some vampire legends in that very same set. I could not care less about yet another boring vampire legend (even if it was Grixis and a vampire wizard).
Aha! The heart of the point. That not everyone interested in these products has the same desires from it. Can we stop *****ing now?
I for one was happy with seeing a legend from Alara. I love the plane and wish we'd see more of it. On the other hand, Innistrad has gotten so much exposure over the years and even got some vampire legends in that very same set. I could not care less about yet another boring vampire legend (even if it was Grixis and a vampire wizard).
Aha! The heart of the point. That not everyone interested in these products has the same desires from it. Can we stop *****ing now?
Exactly. That's why I absolutely agreed with Maro's reasoning in his answer to EstravenEternal.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
I for one was happy with seeing a legend from Alara. I love the plane and wish we'd see more of it. On the other hand, Innistrad has gotten so much exposure over the years and even got some vampire legends in that very same set. I could not care less about yet another boring vampire legend (even if it was Grixis and a vampire wizard).
Aha! The heart of the point. That not everyone interested in these products has the same desires from it. Can we stop *****ing now?
I will continue to ***** about a legendary Kavu until they print one!
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I for one was happy with seeing a legend from Alara. I love the plane and wish we'd see more of it. On the other hand, Innistrad has gotten so much exposure over the years and even got some vampire legends in that very same set. I could not care less about yet another boring vampire legend (even if it was Grixis and a vampire wizard).
Aha! The heart of the point. That not everyone interested in these products has the same desires from it. Can we stop *****ing now?
Absolutely agree with your point.
That said... You're on an online message board populated by gaming nerds and geeks (and being one myself, I say that with the utmost love). *****ing about [insert topic du jour] is basically a second native language here.
Rolled my eyes at yet another Spider. I seriously hope they're not passing off that blue mask lady as a Kamigawa card. No recognizable legends. I do love the Theros artwork, although would be nice to see men on enchantment-matters cards for a change. All the others have been enchantresses. Still, that Theros nymph (?) looking UW enchantment creature lady has some gorgeous art. It's the only thing I got excited about.
Overall, I am more worried than excited.
- No recognizable past Legends finally getting a card
- No clear Kamigawa cards
- BANT may mean we don't get a Mono-White Serra
- Shoe-horning the cards with rigid mechanical themes limits which past Legends we can get as cards
- More Izzet Artifacts, Zombies, Spiders suggests to me being rather out of touch. Is the Spider crowd REALLY all that prominent to warrant ANOTHER Legend in place of others people have been crying out for? How many freaking Zombie cards have we gotten in the last 5 years alone? And while an Izzet Artifacts Legend other than Jhoira is welcome, limiting the whole deck to that theme seems awful considering how broken artifacts are in EDH. Wasn't Breya just last year too?
- If I see any more women in classically male military positions, I may hurl. We got one male in the art, and he's a dead, dumb zombie. Wow.
- No face cards revealed
Don't get me wrong, but Ishkana was not the spider legend we wanted or asked for. The majority of spider related cards previously to her printing had been green or green/red, thus many of the people who wanted a spider legend, myself included, were immensely disappointed when she appeared. It was partially our own fault however, as we had not communicated our wishes properly and instead of saying "we would like a legendary spider that is at least green and red", we just said "we would like a legendary spider". Clarity is key when talking to the various WotC representatives and "public faces".
As for the topic at hand, I think the art is very lovely. The child in the marshes freaked me out a little bit, but I am highly impressed with the detail. I am suspecting that the girl with the "phantasmal" masques and the spider are both legendary, possibly the knight as well, some sort of crusader or conqueror from the looks of it.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I will continue to ***** about a legendary Kavu until they print one!
*nods* Reasonable. I understand.
And yes, I understand that complaining is the core purpose of online forums but I just dont get it. They could just not support our format at all. People are complaining about things they know nothing about. We dont know if the spider is a legend or not. We dont know if there are old story characters in here or not. And no one(but me apparently) is complaining about our third artifact deck, which I think is the most egregious thing here. And even thats not a big deal. I'll just fuse the good stuff into Breya.
I for one was happy with seeing a legend from Alara. I love the plane and wish we'd see more of it. On the other hand, Innistrad has gotten so much exposure over the years and even got some vampire legends in that very same set. I could not care less about yet another boring vampire legend (even if it was Grixis and a vampire wizard).
Aha! The heart of the point. That not everyone interested in these products has the same desires from it. Can we stop *****ing now?
Except, people who want random, nobody legends can get them anywhere. People who want past lore legends as cards can look only to Commander.
...You're original post appeared to recommend throwing a random Izzet artifact legend into a 5-color deck that isn't about artifacts...
Just because the entire deck isn't artifact focused, doesn't mean a 5-color deck wouldn't be playing any (on the contrary, it's 5c...) for the UR legend to interact with, for example. It just doesn't have to consume the entire purpose of the deck to deliver that one card.
And for the record, I did mention how it was annoying getting another artifact deck after Breya, above. But whatever, it's always a solid focus and Bant enchantments is another solid choice. Jund Lands too. Although Esper's focus is weird, we've been needing more Esper legends and cards.
Except, people who want random, nobody legends can get them anywhere. People who want past lore legends as cards can look only to Commander.
Except how we got 4 (5 if you want to count Bolas) in the set that just got released. And personally I would rather they not do well known lore characters if they don't have a unique, evocative design, which I think your Choryu is not, or if they have to force it like they did with Ludevic. And if they are going to jam a boring design, like giving one spell during your turn flashback, then I would prefer it be on a generic nobody character like Kess.
Izzet Inventions: "How would you like Daretti, Scrap Savant but better since you have access to blue?"
Nature's Vengeance: Going right for the throat of anyone piloting their versions of this deck from the very start. We all know Crucible of Worlds and Strip Mine are in your build so you better hope to draw that Glacial Chasm because nobody else is going to save you from a quick death.
Adaptive Enchantment: I've always wanted to build enchantress. I happen to have several enchantress cards laying around and my Phelddagrif is already an enchantment based deck so this one I'm interested in.
Except, people who want random, nobody legends can get them anywhere. People who want past lore legends as cards can look only to Commander.
Me personally, I'd like to see them do more of what they did in Planechase and show us snapshots of the larger Multiverse from planes that maybe aren't deep enough to carry a whole set. Part of what makes The Mimeoplasm so cool is that it's a hook for Muraganda, a plane we're honestly probably never going to fully see. I would much rather get some rando from Kaldheim or Equilor and learn something new about those places, rather than get another dork from Zendikar who showed up in a flavor text once (sorry Bruse).
Of course, I'm also aware that Magic isn't made for an audience of me and only me alone, so I don't gretch every time a card gets spoiled that doesn't cater to my specific tastes.
I think they should have a balance but they drove the hype train up and then they revealed people we know almost nothing about besides ones from innistrad and ones from theros. I’m fine with new characters but when you’re product says it’s going to have walkers in it and they aren’t ones we know about it kinda feels like they pulled the breaks on the hype train.
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Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Seb McKinnon always knocks it out of the park with his art.
Is that who did the little girl?
Yes. He's done a lot of really amazing pieces. My favorite is the Theros Unknown Shores.
With personality, too, rare amongst WotC art direction these days.
No wonder that's the best art of the bunch. I was going to point out that someone was rocking it on the art, but of course it's old Seb McKinnon. They should really learn from their successes, and hire more artists with a personal touch like him.
Seb McKinnon always knocks it out of the park with his art.
Is that who did the little girl?
Yes. He's done a lot of really amazing pieces. My favorite is the Theros Unknown Shores.
With personality, too, rare amongst WotC art direction these days.
No wonder that's the best art of the bunch. I was going to point out that someone was rocking it on the art, but of course it's old Seb McKinnon. They should really learn from their successes, and hire more artists with a personal touch like him.
You mean like Rebecca Guay? Or Christopher Moeller? I resent the latter retiring, and the former being called upon to scarcely. I love beautiful painted pieces like theirs. Moeller captured Kamigawa and Theros so perfectly, like Seb McKinnon did. Between Moeller and McKinnon - theirs were literally painted works that I'd expect to appear in a Greek Mythology textbook. Just perfect capture. If only Satyr Piper were a better card, but if this Bant Enchantment deck gives me a good Commander, I may finally be able to incorporate Green and add him, Thrasios and Kydele to my UW deck helmed currently by Ephara.
Based on the size of the pictures of the swamp girl and the mask lady I would say they are going to be primary commanders or something because that looks like the sort of picture WotC would put on sleeves
Plus is it just me or does that thing on the swamp girls head a fishing net, I’d put my money on her being the Esper commander
Regarding "derailing the deck", look at historical Commander precons. It's normal to have even the potential commanders go in multiple directions, as long as they aren't actively antagonistic (There was no way Derevi, Empyreal Tactician was going to get Rafiq of the Many.) and maybe just pull the deck in different directions. (Karador, Ghost Chieftain does not want to be in your Ghave, Guru of Spores deck: Karador runs more creatures, Ghave runs more artifacts and enchantments like a token Stax deck should. It's not that Ghave can't run creatures, though.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Yes well these new decks are suppose to be stronger so it will be interesting if they stop weakening decks by splitting them in conflicting directions.
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I'm just surprised that "Drider" works as a reference on a public forum,
but I guess I'm not the only one here who read Homeland.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
On the other side I disagree with your O-kagachi argument, O-Kagachi can be the most powerful entity of Kamigawa, yet not powerful enough compared to other beings from other worlds, the ur-dragon besides is almost like a cosmic entity. In fact the myojin of night's reach punished toshiro because it felt weak when it discovered other worlds.
Also, you're incorrect about some Kamigawa lore. The Sisters who succeeded O-Kagachi were capable of blocking even Oldwalkers from entering Kamigawa outright, and O-Kagachi gave them a run for their money in battle, even without his divinity. O-Kagachi's sheer size was constantly emphasized in the lore. And he has 8 heads, the least he could be is an 8/8. He really should have been 10/10 as well, regardless of CMC. Also, the Myojin of Night's Reach did not feel inferior upon visiting other planes. On the contrary. She discovered ways to empower herself more, and acquire more followers and cults. In fact, she punished Toshiro for inadvertently ending the Kami War, knowing the Sisters would re-write the magical laws of Kamigawa, and forbid Night from visiting other planes again.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
...You're original post appeared to recommend throwing a random Izzet artifact legend into a 5-color deck that isn't about artifacts... right after wishing that these decks didn't have strict themes. While I apologize for reading too deeply into this, I hope you can see how things might appear.
If you want your legends to be random good-stuff, I'm all for that. If you want to put a moratorium on creating brand new legends for commander, it might give the design team a real challenge but I wouldn't oppose that.
Sorry about that
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
Aha! The heart of the point. That not everyone interested in these products has the same desires from it. Can we stop *****ing now?
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
I will continue to ***** about a legendary Kavu until they print one!
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Absolutely agree with your point.
That said... You're on an online message board populated by gaming nerds and geeks (and being one myself, I say that with the utmost love). *****ing about [insert topic du jour] is basically a second native language here.
Don't get me wrong, but Ishkana was not the spider legend we wanted or asked for. The majority of spider related cards previously to her printing had been green or green/red, thus many of the people who wanted a spider legend, myself included, were immensely disappointed when she appeared. It was partially our own fault however, as we had not communicated our wishes properly and instead of saying "we would like a legendary spider that is at least green and red", we just said "we would like a legendary spider". Clarity is key when talking to the various WotC representatives and "public faces".
As for the topic at hand, I think the art is very lovely. The child in the marshes freaked me out a little bit, but I am highly impressed with the detail. I am suspecting that the girl with the "phantasmal" masques and the spider are both legendary, possibly the knight as well, some sort of crusader or conqueror from the looks of it.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
*nods* Reasonable. I understand.
And yes, I understand that complaining is the core purpose of online forums but I just dont get it. They could just not support our format at all. People are complaining about things they know nothing about. We dont know if the spider is a legend or not. We dont know if there are old story characters in here or not. And no one(but me apparently) is complaining about our third artifact deck, which I think is the most egregious thing here. And even thats not a big deal. I'll just fuse the good stuff into Breya.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
And for the record, I did mention how it was annoying getting another artifact deck after Breya, above. But whatever, it's always a solid focus and Bant enchantments is another solid choice. Jund Lands too. Although Esper's focus is weird, we've been needing more Esper legends and cards.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Except how we got 4 (5 if you want to count Bolas) in the set that just got released. And personally I would rather they not do well known lore characters if they don't have a unique, evocative design, which I think your Choryu is not, or if they have to force it like they did with Ludevic. And if they are going to jam a boring design, like giving one spell during your turn flashback, then I would prefer it be on a generic nobody character like Kess.
Nature's Vengeance: Going right for the throat of anyone piloting their versions of this deck from the very start. We all know Crucible of Worlds and Strip Mine are in your build so you better hope to draw that Glacial Chasm because nobody else is going to save you from a quick death.
Adaptive Enchantment: I've always wanted to build enchantress. I happen to have several enchantress cards laying around and my Phelddagrif is already an enchantment based deck so this one I'm interested in.
Subjective Reality: Ok, now this I have to see.
Me personally, I'd like to see them do more of what they did in Planechase and show us snapshots of the larger Multiverse from planes that maybe aren't deep enough to carry a whole set. Part of what makes The Mimeoplasm so cool is that it's a hook for Muraganda, a plane we're honestly probably never going to fully see. I would much rather get some rando from Kaldheim or Equilor and learn something new about those places, rather than get another dork from Zendikar who showed up in a flavor text once (sorry Bruse).
Of course, I'm also aware that Magic isn't made for an audience of me and only me alone, so I don't gretch every time a card gets spoiled that doesn't cater to my specific tastes.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
No wonder that's the best art of the bunch. I was going to point out that someone was rocking it on the art, but of course it's old Seb McKinnon. They should really learn from their successes, and hire more artists with a personal touch like him.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Plus is it just me or does that thing on the swamp girls head a fishing net, I’d put my money on her being the Esper commander
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
On phasing: