Leaked via Korean mothership page. Thx to mtgrhox on reddit for the translation. Thx to horn666 for the actual English version.
Tezzeret, Cruel Machinist4UU Legendary Planeswalker — Tezzeret (Mythic)
[+1]: Draw a card
[0]: Until your next turn, target artifact you control becomes a 5/5 artifact creature in addition to its other types.
[-7]: Put any number of cards from your hand onto the battlefield face down. They're 5/5 artifact creatures.
[?]
Liliana, the Necromancer3BB Legendary Planeswalker — Liliana (Mythic)
[+1]: Target player loses 2 life.
[-1]: Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
[-7]: Destroy up to two target creatures. Put up to two target creature cards from graveyards onto the battlefield under your control.
So. A face down card is not necessarily automatically a 2/2 any longer? I wonder if this is something they might want to pursue with other types of mechanics..
And can you unmorph morphs put into play this way? Based on the ruling for manifest, that you can unmorph manifested morp-cards as normal, I guess it's the same here.
I know planeswalker deck planeswalkers are usually pretty awful, but these are alright. I might actually use both in them in brews I have been working on in Standard.
Aww man, I was really hoping that Tezz costed 3UU for casual purposes. As is, it clashes too much with Master of Metal, and I'd rather run that one since his +1 guarantees you hit gas and his second ability deals more damage overall.
So. A face down card is not necessarily automatically a 2/2 any longer? I wonder if this is something they might want to pursue with other types of mechanics..
And can you unmorph morphs put into play this way? Based on the ruling for manifest, that you can unmorph manifested morp-cards as normal, I guess it's the same here.
Putting cards face down and giving them variable aspects is fine....in a digital game where the computer tracks that for you. In the physical card game not so much. What if neither player has the morph covers from Tarkir and theirs morph cards? Hell you can play morph cards in with this Tezzeret and then unmorph but their still 5/5 artifacts wilh no way to prove or disprove. Just gotta belive im not trying to swing the game in my favor.
Fu-t-ken WotC. ‘We want the board state to easily be trackable’ makes card that makes it difficult and opene more cheating avenues.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Putting cards face down and giving them variable aspects is fine....in a digital game where the computer tracks that for you. In the physical card game not so much. What if neither player has the morph covers from Tarkir and theirs morph cards? Hell you can play morph cards in with this Tezzeret and then unmorph but their still 5/5 artifacts wilh no way to prove or disprove. Just gotta belive im not trying to swing the game in my favor.
Fu-t-ken WotC. ‘We want the board state to easily be trackable’ makes card that makes it difficult and opene more cheating avenues.
Can't you just put labels or dice or whatever to keep track of which are 5/5 robots?
Putting cards face down and giving them variable aspects is fine....in a digital game where the computer tracks that for you. In the physical card game not so much. What if neither player has the morph covers from Tarkir and theirs morph cards? Hell you can play morph cards in with this Tezzeret and then unmorph but their still 5/5 artifacts wilh no way to prove or disprove. Just gotta belive im not trying to swing the game in my favor.
Fu-t-ken WotC. ‘We want the board state to easily be trackable’ makes card that makes it difficult and opene more cheating avenues.
Can't you just put labels or dice or whatever to keep track of which are 5/5 robots?
I mean, yes, you absolutely can.
Considering the card will definitely never be in a Standard with morph, nor will it get played in Modern, then the only real place you'd have this issue would be Commander, which is the most tracking complexity-heavy format there is.
So. A face down card is not necessarily automatically a 2/2 any longer? I wonder if this is something they might want to pursue with other types of mechanics..
And can you unmorph morphs put into play this way? Based on the ruling for manifest, that you can unmorph manifested morp-cards as normal, I guess it's the same here.
It's not 2/2 if the effect that puts the card on the battlefield face-down says it's something else:
707.2. Face-down spells and face-down permanents have no characteristics other than those listed by the ability or rules that allowed the spell or permanent to be face down. Any listed characteristics are the copiable values of that object's characteristics. (See rule 613, "Interaction of Continuous Effects," and rule 706, "Copying Objects.")
The only ways you could turn such a card face-up would be if it would have morph or megamorph while face-up (just pay the mega/morph cost), or when it leaves the battlefield (in which case you would have to).
So. A face down card is not necessarily automatically a 2/2 any longer? I wonder if this is something they might want to pursue with other types of mechanics..
And can you unmorph morphs put into play this way? Based on the ruling for manifest, that you can unmorph manifested morp-cards as normal, I guess it's the same here.
It looks like they would still be artifacts when turned face-up:
707.8. As a face-down permanent is turned face up, its copiable values revert to its normal copiable values. Any effects that have been applied to the face-down permanent still apply to the face-up permanent. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don't trigger and don't have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.
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And would still be 5/5 creatures regardless of anything else?
Like if a Nameless One had this done to it, then was turned face up, it'd just be a 5/5 blue artifact creature, and not have the CDA, just like a Tarm/Scarab God interaction?
Wonder why they chose this mechanic for the ultimate and not "exile any number of cards from your hand. Create that many 5/5 tokens". There might be a larger "face down" theme in his deck, but it seems a bit complex for an entry-level product...
edit: typo
Wonder why they cose this mechanic for the ultimate and not "exile any number of cards from your hand. Create that many 5/5 tokens". There might be a larger "face down" theme in his deck, but it seems a bit complex for an entry-level product...
Kinda makes me wonder why they were this adventurous with Tezz, but not the new walker with a bow that lets her use spirit copies of animals she's encountered.
Wonder why they chose this mechanic for the ultimate and not "exile any number of cards from your hand. Create that many 5/5 tokens". There might be a larger "face down" theme in his deck, but it seems a bit complex for an entry-level product...
edit: typo
Or maybe just flicker effects. Which also could explain why the blue 'walker gets this tech.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I'll take 100 of that Tezzeret over 1 Vivien/Ob Nix in terms of design.
I've seen a few references to Ob Nix being a bad design in the last day. Is there something I'm missing? I have never seen that criticism before the Core spoilers.
I'll take 100 of that Tezzeret over 1 Vivien/Ob Nix in terms of design.
I've seen a few references to Ob Nix being a bad design in the last day. Is there something I'm missing? I have never seen that criticism before the Core spoilers.
Ob Nixilis Reignited is a fair planeswalker with decent effects, but the problem with him is that he's very "boring". This criticism was leveled at the card long before now. His first two effects are just generic black things that just tick the checkboxes for what a "good" planeswalker card is supposed to do (give you advantage and protect itself), and those are what you'd expect to use him for 99% of the time. His ultimate is a bit more interesting, but ultimates tend to be relatively exciting in general.
Ob Nixilis Reignited is a fair planeswalker with decent effects, but the problem with him is that he's very "boring". This criticism was leveled at the card long before now. His first two effects are just generic black things that just tick the checkboxes for what a "good" planeswalker card is supposed to do (give you advantage and protect itself), and those are what you'd expect to use him for 99% of the time. His ultimate is a bit more interesting though.
Interesting, thank you. I wasn't following things when that card came out, I never knew it was considered boring. I use it a bunch for budget utility and he serves that role well,I guess I just never thought about how exciting the card is. Hmm.
Ob Nixilis Reignited is a fair planeswalker with decent effects, but the problem with him is that he's very "boring". This criticism was leveled at the card long before now. His first two effects are just generic black things that just tick the checkboxes for what a "good" planeswalker card is supposed to do (give you advantage and protect itself), and those are what you'd expect to use him for 99% of the time. His ultimate is a bit more interesting though.
Interesting, thank you. I wasn't following things when that card came out, I never knew it was considered boring. I use it a bunch for budget utility and he serves that role well,I guess I just never thought about how exciting the card is. Hmm.
One thing to consider here is that planeswalker characters need to have their cards do things that differentiate themselves from the others, or they'll eventually look too similar to tell apart.
Liliana, outside of one card, does necromancer things. Sorin usually has drain effects or creates Vampire tokens, because he's a vampire. Vraska routinely kills things because she's a Gorgon assassin.
Ob Nixilis Reignited was so generic that it didn't really establish what his cards are supposed to do as a rule of thumb.
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Koreanmothership page. Thx to mtgrhoxon reddit for the translation.Thx to horn666 for the actual English version.Legendary Planeswalker — Tezzeret (Mythic)
[+1]: Draw a card
[0]: Until your next turn, target artifact you control becomes a 5/5 artifact creature in addition to its other types.
[-7]: Put any number of cards from your hand onto the battlefield face down. They're 5/5 artifact creatures.
Legendary Planeswalker — Liliana (Mythic)
[+1]: Target player loses 2 life.
[-1]: Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
[-7]: Destroy up to two target creatures. Put up to two target creature cards from graveyards onto the battlefield under your control.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Im just sick of Ob Nix Template
*tinfoil hats on*
/sarcasm
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
And can you unmorph morphs put into play this way? Based on the ruling for manifest, that you can unmorph manifested morp-cards as normal, I guess it's the same here.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
And I suppose they'd still be artifacts if you use Ixidor, Reality Sculptor?
Fu-t-ken WotC. ‘We want the board state to easily be trackable’ makes card that makes it difficult and opene more cheating avenues.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Can't you just put labels or dice or whatever to keep track of which are 5/5 robots?
I mean, yes, you absolutely can.
Considering the card will definitely never be in a Standard with morph, nor will it get played in Modern, then the only real place you'd have this issue would be Commander, which is the most tracking complexity-heavy format there is.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
It's not 2/2 if the effect that puts the card on the battlefield face-down says it's something else:
707.2. Face-down spells and face-down permanents have no characteristics other than those listed by the ability or rules that allowed the spell or permanent to be face down. Any listed characteristics are the copiable values of that object's characteristics. (See rule 613, "Interaction of Continuous Effects," and rule 706, "Copying Objects.")
The only ways you could turn such a card face-up would be if it would have morph or megamorph while face-up (just pay the mega/morph cost), or when it leaves the battlefield (in which case you would have to).
It looks like they would still be artifacts when turned face-up:
707.8. As a face-down permanent is turned face up, its copiable values revert to its normal copiable values. Any effects that have been applied to the face-down permanent still apply to the face-up permanent. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don't trigger and don't have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.
Like if a Nameless One had this done to it, then was turned face up, it'd just be a 5/5 blue artifact creature, and not have the CDA, just like a Tarm/Scarab God interaction?
edit: typo
Kinda makes me wonder why they were this adventurous with Tezz, but not the new walker with a bow that lets her use spirit copies of animals she's encountered.
What do you mean Ob Nixilis template?
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Or maybe just flicker effects. Which also could explain why the blue 'walker gets this tech.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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I've seen a few references to Ob Nix being a bad design in the last day. Is there something I'm missing? I have never seen that criticism before the Core spoilers.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Ob Nixilis Reignited is a fair planeswalker with decent effects, but the problem with him is that he's very "boring". This criticism was leveled at the card long before now. His first two effects are just generic black things that just tick the checkboxes for what a "good" planeswalker card is supposed to do (give you advantage and protect itself), and those are what you'd expect to use him for 99% of the time. His ultimate is a bit more interesting, but ultimates tend to be relatively exciting in general.
Interesting, thank you. I wasn't following things when that card came out, I never knew it was considered boring. I use it a bunch for budget utility and he serves that role well,I guess I just never thought about how exciting the card is. Hmm.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
One thing to consider here is that planeswalker characters need to have their cards do things that differentiate themselves from the others, or they'll eventually look too similar to tell apart.
Liliana, outside of one card, does necromancer things. Sorin usually has drain effects or creates Vampire tokens, because he's a vampire. Vraska routinely kills things because she's a Gorgon assassin.
Ob Nixilis Reignited was so generic that it didn't really establish what his cards are supposed to do as a rule of thumb.