Man she's bland, looks like a Precon walker. Other than a matchup like UW control where they have flier finishers, artifacts and enchantments, feels like a liability that dies fast.
This is exactly what I didn't want to see on Core Set 2019: the chance for exciting reprints wasted in order to make uninspired and generic new cards for the sake of being new cards.
First of all, ALL names are real names. What I am saying is that the name they chose is by far the most COMMON first and last name combination they have ever chosen. I guarantee there are more REAL people on this planet with that name (Vivien Reid) given to them at birth than all the other planeswalkers names combined. (Again this discounts people who have legally changed their name.)
I find it lazy, boring and sloppy for whoever decided. But it does fit a lazy, boring and sloppily designed card. That is my opinion.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
So, what manner of "interesting" effects are some hoping Vivien will have, pray tell?
I feel like they could have leaned into her conservationist/"Pokemon Trainer" persona more. Give her abilities that care about having a wide variety of creatures. Something like...
Vivien Reid 2GG
Legendary Planeswalker - Vivien
+1: Up to one target creature gains trample, vigilance, or reach until the beginning of your next turn.
-X: Reveal the top X cards of your library and put any number of creatures with different names revealed this way into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom in a random order.
-6: You get an emblem with "Each creature you control has trample as long as a creature you control has trample. The same is true of vigilance, reach, hexproof, haste, deathtouch, and indestructible.".
I can even explain her reddish skin. As aside from her surname of Reid "Red", Vivian's race would be the equivalent of the Thule people, the prototype of Inuits.
Um, inuitis the plural. The singular is inuk.
Her biggest problem is her lack of a real theme. I mean, I like the "land or creature" thing, and I expect to see "land or" in the future of green dig, since it reduces the number of feel-bad moments. I kinda feel the Return to the Earth could be done in a later version?
That said, she will see play.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I really want to like her, but man, 5 mana, that's the ob-nixilis, jace the unraveler zone. Not protecting herself with okay effects all around doesn't justify a 5 mana walker imo. 4 mana would be sweet, great even to ramp into, but at 5 she's just relegated to rot in sideboards. Worst of all, she's not even a good answer to Lyra as pointed out by some, as Lyra is pretty often flashed in by raff capashen, creating this awkward situation where you might even have to kill Raff cuz you know Vivian will die to a flashed Lyra anyways.
I'm not even riled up because she feels bland or uninteresting, and this is ME we're talking about. I'm just frustrated because she feels so mediocre. If this is supposed to be a new, important character who might even replace Nissa for a long time, make her card so powerful it WOWs people. That's how you create sympathy and interest for a character right from the get-go. Imagine if all lorwyn 5 were on the powerlevel of the first chandra, players wouldn't have given one single **** for each of those characters.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
I can even explain her reddish skin. As aside from her surname of Reid "Red", Vivian's race would be the equivalent of the Thule people, the prototype of Inuits.
Um, inuitis the plural. The singular is inuk.
Yes. They are using the plural in that sentence you quoted as they are referring to a group.
I feel like they could have leaned into her conservationist/"Pokemon Trainer" persona more. Give her abilities that care about having a wide variety of creatures. Something like...
+1: Up to one target creature gains trample, vigilance, or reach until the beginning of your next turn.
-X: Reveal the top X cards of your library and put any number of creatures with different names revealed this way into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom in a random order.
-6: You get an emblem with "Each creature you control has trample as long as a creature you control has trample. The same is true of vigilance, reach, hexproof, haste, deathtouch, and indestructible."
You aren't supposed to post card designs outside of the Custom cards creation forum. You can list abilities without adding on a mana cost and starting loyalty. I've snipped those from the quote for demonstrative purposes.
Trouble is, between pre-curse Garruk and Nissa, so much of green's viable mechanical space has already been explored. Thus, with Vivien they went for the "green bases", covering the two card types green cares about on a regular basis, the three main removal types, and the most common game-ending green effect. It's not flashy or novel, because it isn't supposed to be. Vivien combines traits from both Garruk and Nissa for the purposes of giving us green's standard PW.
Green's problem is that it probably has the least diverse toolbox of all five colors, explaining why we're only now getting our fourth monogreen PW (following Garruk, Nissa, and Freyalise). Thematically, it's also strongly tied to either animals or plants, meaning the greatest diversity in green PWs comes from creature type focus. And most of those creature types would probably be represented in multicolor, like Cats, Wolves, Snakes, etc.
And I think that all has to do with green being the diverse resource color, being the main color for mana ramp and color fixing, the secondary color for card draw and life gain, and the best retrieval color, and thus the color most strongly dependent on other colors to branch out.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
How about something depicting what she does with the Arkbow regarding the creature spirit stuff, to start with?
So, a Cat Spirit token or something? Garruk did tokens too. Yeah, they could be different creature types, but it still isn't exactly novel.
No, that wouldn't make sense, because her bow has the essence of what are probably many different species preserved in it. Also this means that you aren't trying to think outside the box where this woman's card is concerned.
You could justify her +1 by saying that the creatures in your library are the creature spirits in her bow, and you casting them is equivalent to Vivien firing her bow. Instead of that roundabout justification though, I'd prefer her card to literally do the Pokemon Trainer thing.
How about something depicting what she does with the Arkbow regarding the creature spirit stuff, to start with?
So, a Cat Spirit token or something? Garruk did tokens too. Yeah, they could be different creature types, but it still isn't exactly novel.
No, that wouldn't make sense, because her bow has the essence of what are probably many different species preserved in it. Also this means that you aren't trying to think outside the box where this woman's card is concerned.
You could justify her +1 by saying that the creatures in your library are the creature spirits in her bow, and you casting them is equivalent to Vivien firing her bow. Instead of that roundabout justification though, I'd prefer her card to literally do the Pokemon Trainer thing.
Her art basically screams "token maker", so, for me, it is a fail that she isn't one. She could exile creatures from somewhere (yard would probably play best, but it might feel too black, the line is fuzzy there) to make copies, or mark creatures in some way to "store" them and make copies when they die. Let's hope her other versions actually convey her flavor.
Also, there is nothing wrong with her being "Garruk 2.0" when he is firmly BG now.
She's is generic green the same way Chandra is generic red, Jace is generic blue and Liliana is generic black. That's the point of these characters, to be a posterboy of their colors. In fact she feels a lot like a green version of Liliana Vess.
I wonder how many of you would dislike her if she was printed in the initial cycle of PW cards. The design team can't keep publishing cards as if every player have been playing the game from many years. From set themes, art direction, to face characters, to level of complexity, standard always needs a fraction of cards that behaves as if they where the first and only set of MTG ever printed. The reason is that for starting players, that IS the case and they need something representative of the game to chew.
Not printing core sets was a HUGE mistake. Imagine yourself starting to play magic during Kaladesh-Amonkhet-Ixalan standard. You wouldn't know wtf the game is about - is it about dinosaurs fighting vampires or grimdark egyptian mythos ? The game is all over the place and building up brand recognition for players starting now is impossible because the art direction, color themes, mechanics, everything is changing from set to set. MTG is about it's colors and what they represent but it's really difficult to understand that via advanced sets where colors subsidize flavors and mechanics and not the other way around.
So maybe you don't need a set where green is just forest animals and elves, blue is fishes and nerd mages, black is zombies and evil people, red is fire and goblins and cool mages and white is all things lawful good. But new players definitely do in order to digest the game, taste something that is not setting dependant and grookable.
You aren't supposed to post card designs outside of the Custom cards creation forum. You can list abilities without adding on a mana cost and starting loyalty. I've snipped those from the quote for demonstrative purposes.
What are you, a cop?
That's what I was originally going to do, but given this forum's penchant for whining about literally everything I figured I was safer giving them the context of a cost.
She's is generic green the same way Chandra is generic red, Jace is generic blue and Liliana is generic black. That's the point of these characters, to be a posterboy of their colors. In fact she feels a lot like a green version of Liliana Vess.
I wonder how many of you would dislike her if she was printed in the initial cycle of PW cards. The design team can't keep publishing cards as if every player have been playing the game from many years. From set themes, art direction, to face characters, to level of complexity, standard always needs a fraction of cards that behaves as if they where the first and only set of MTG ever printed. The reason is that for starting players, that IS the case and they need something representative of the game to chew.
Not printing core sets was a HUGE mistake. Imagine yourself starting to play magic during Kaladesh-Amonkhet-Ixalan standard. You wouldn't know wtf the game is about - is it about dinosaurs fighting vampires or grimdark egyptian mythos ? The game is all over the place and building up brand recognition for players starting now is impossible because the art direction, color themes, mechanics, everything is changing from set to set. MTG is about it's colors and what they represent but it's really difficult to understand that via advanced sets where colors subsidize flavors and mechanics and not the other way around.
So maybe you don't need a set where green is just forest animals and elves, blue is fishes and nerd mages, black is zombies and evil people, red is fire and goblins and cool mages and white is all things lawful good. But new players definitely do in order to digest the game, taste something that is not setting dependant and grookable.
Laughed at the part on black being "zombies and bad people". Anyway, I agree with you. We need core sets. My friend Karen finds Amonkhet rules complicated... but when I dug up some old precon decks of 7th ed, she took a liking to the game right away - because the cards are easier to understand. She started with black because some creatures looked like from a horror movie, then moved on to using the white precon because the white people are the good guys.
_________________________________________
About the new walker... I think every walker got some hate when they were first printed. The originals... Jace, Chandra, Garruk, Liliana were mentioned as Urza wanna be. For Vivien, I guess it'e because of the name being like a real person and other complaint is the abilities. The more people who don't like her, the easier for me to get copies then.
No, that wouldn't make sense, because her bow has the essence of what are probably many different species preserved in it. Also this means that you aren't trying to think outside the box where this woman's card is concerned.
You could justify her +1 by saying that the creatures in your library are the creature spirits in her bow, and you casting them is equivalent to Vivien firing her bow. Instead of that roundabout justification though, I'd prefer her card to literally do the Pokemon Trainer thing.
The art of Vivien's Invocation was influencing me, reminded me of totem armor and various creature tokens.
And if you're referring to catching Pokemon, that would probably require her card to be GU.
Your comment does provoke a thought, though; what if she can cast creature cards from your graveyard to represent conjuring the essence of species killed off by Bolas?
You aren't supposed to post card designs outside of the Custom cards creation forum. You can list abilities without adding on a mana cost and starting loyalty. I've snipped those from the quote for demonstrative purposes.
What are you, a cop?
That's what I was originally going to do, but given this forum's penchant for whining about literally everything I figured I was safer giving them the context of a cost.
No need to be rude, I was quoting one of the forum's rules. Mods have had to get on people about that before, and I'm trying to help people avoid those mistakes, for both theirs and the mods' sakes. I'm giving you advice on proverbially driving safe and signaling so a cop doesn't have to pull you over for a ticket.
I'll concur about the forum's penchant for whining, but rules are rules. Besides, they'd whine about the cost being 1 too high; goodness knows if I had a nickel for every time I've seen that comment, I could buy a booster pack of Magic cards. People will whine no matter what you do. Point is, just stick to the abilities and maybe the loyalty costs so you don't get modded. Make things easier for yourself and the mods.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Come on we all know mana makes a difference...very few cards are fairly cast that cost more then 4 mana are cast in any constructed competitive format. Fair being having to tap lands for all or most of your mana. So one mana makes all the difference in the world.
Part of me actually wonders If some here are internally predisposed to dislike her because her association with the Mary Sue, and that she’s another new, strong female planeswalker...
...and this is coming from a guy that normally doesn’t suspect sexism as the culprit as much.
Huatli’s character kinda got kinda attacked by many in the storyline thread....for her character flaws. A silly reason.
I mean, diversity and well-rounded characters are a good thing right?!?
I dunno, I mean it’s been kind of fun these past few years seeing more women in Magic. The last two years, each Christmas I purchase 2 planeswalker decks as gifts for a random young girl in the community, hoping to spark a lil planeswalker somewhere. (Distributed by a local charity like angel tree, I’m not a creep lol)
And y’know what?
It’s been fun having so many options of interesting female Planeswalkers to choose from!
I’m not necessarily saying everyone is being influenced by sexism but I think a few might be.
I mean her description hardly reads boring, her world has been lost and all she has to remember it are her summons!
My life is boring. Your life is boring. But I don’t see anything bland in Vivian’s description.
You aren't supposed to post card designs outside of the Custom cards creation forum. You can list abilities without adding on a mana cost and starting loyalty. I've snipped those from the quote for demonstrative purposes.
What are you, a cop?
That's what I was originally going to do, but given this forum's penchant for whining about literally everything I figured I was safer giving them the context of a cost.
No but I am for all intensive purposes.
This is a reminder for all not just you.
No custom cards are allowed outside of the custom card creation thread or specified thread.
thanks guys and keep up the discussion,
Ulka
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My own personal thoughts on Vivian is she has a nice base as most walkers get in their first iteration (if expected to return or have rapid character growth) that is a more toned down card. She may be kinda bland but honestly sometime bland gets the job done.
I dunno, I mean it’s been kind of fun these past few years seeing more women in Magic. The last two years, each Christmas I purchase 2 planeswalker decks as gifts for a random young girl in the community, hoping to spark a lil planeswalker somewhere. (Distributed by a local charity like angel tree, I’m not a creep lol)
And y’know what?
It’s been fun having so many options of interesting female Planeswalkers to choose from!
This makes me think of Disney Princesses, and gives me an idea for a WUBRG Princess planeswalker that summons other planeswalkers.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Yes. You are right and I could have worded that better to come across as opinion rather than fact.
"I agree, and personally find the whole name thing silly."
I just find it odd that people are so focused on her name, when there are a plethora of other characters (planeswalker or otherwise) in Magic with relatively common real names already.
I suppose at least part of it is that many of those names are of foreign origin (thus not well know in the US) so many players simply don't realize how common they are.
Another word for simplicity in card design is elegance. They didn't manage to keep that first ability from being a million words, though.
This is just another color swap on the Ob Nixilis Reignited/Jace, Unraveler of Secrets/Teferi, Hero of Dominaria template, but this is the first green walker to fall into the +:Phyrexian Arena / -: removal template, and the first Green walker under 6 mana to generate actual card advantage with its + ability; I wouldn't be surprised if that's what some deck/cube wants.
Yes. You are right and I could have worded that better to come across as opinion rather than fact.
"I agree, and personally find the whole name thing silly."
I just find it odd that people are so focused on her name, when there are a plethora of other characters (planeswalker or otherwise) in Magic with relatively common real names already.
I suppose at least part of it is that many of those names are of foreign origin (thus not well know in the US) so many players simply don't realize how common they are.
Hey, no problem. Water under the bridge. I have a hard time with the knee-jerk reaction of some on the site that if you criticize WotC for anything they circle the wagons and will defend them to the death. The fact is Vivien and Reid put together is the most common pairings of first and last name that Wizards has ever used on a planeswalker. I'm not talking legends here like Angus MacKenzie or Tetsuo Umezawa. Planeswalkers (to my mind) are these fantastical beings that are 1 in a million. They should have 1 in a million stories, abilities and names. Just my opinion, nothing more. But I like to defend my opinion and will do so aggressively most of the time.
Grand scheme of life, the name is meaningless. To a rabid fan and customer with high expectations like myself, it can be a small issue. Besides, does anyone wonder why I chose my Username? I did so very intentionally. At this point I've said my piece and need to let it go. Cheers.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I just find it odd that people are so focused on her name, when there are a plethora of other characters (planeswalker or otherwise) in Magic with relatively common real names already.
To be fair: It's consistent if you take into consideration complaints about plenty of other characters. I think a lot of old characters get grandfathered in, "Will" from Battlebond got the exact same complaint. You could say it was silly then as well, but if you have to go all the way back, then maybe you are just talking about people who have consistently disliked a lot of other names as well.
Planeswalkers (to my mind) are these fantastical beings that are 1 in a million. They should have 1 in a million stories, abilities and names.
Their stories should be 1 in a million because of their innate ability to planeswalk, so yes, that makes sense.
Name on the other hand are giving to babies, most babies are not planeswalkers (or even mages), they are just babies, so their parents probably give them a family name and are done with it (aside from dragons apparently)
It is completely reasonable from a lore standpoint to get whatever plane's equivalent of John Smith as a planeswalker name (in fact, its more likely than a unique name)
This is exactly what I didn't want to see on Core Set 2019: the chance for exciting reprints wasted in order to make uninspired and generic new cards for the sake of being new cards.
That's your opinion and that is fine.
First of all, ALL names are real names. What I am saying is that the name they chose is by far the most COMMON first and last name combination they have ever chosen. I guarantee there are more REAL people on this planet with that name (Vivien Reid) given to them at birth than all the other planeswalkers names combined. (Again this discounts people who have legally changed their name.)
I find it lazy, boring and sloppy for whoever decided. But it does fit a lazy, boring and sloppily designed card. That is my opinion.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
How about something depicting what she does with the Arkbow regarding the creature spirit stuff, to start with?
I feel like they could have leaned into her conservationist/"Pokemon Trainer" persona more. Give her abilities that care about having a wide variety of creatures. Something like...
Vivien Reid 2GG
Legendary Planeswalker - Vivien
+1: Up to one target creature gains trample, vigilance, or reach until the beginning of your next turn.
-X: Reveal the top X cards of your library and put any number of creatures with different names revealed this way into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom in a random order.
-6: You get an emblem with "Each creature you control has trample as long as a creature you control has trample. The same is true of vigilance, reach, hexproof, haste, deathtouch, and indestructible.".
3
Um, inuit is the plural. The singular is inuk.
Her biggest problem is her lack of a real theme. I mean, I like the "land or creature" thing, and I expect to see "land or" in the future of green dig, since it reduces the number of feel-bad moments. I kinda feel the Return to the Earth could be done in a later version?
That said, she will see play.
On phasing:
I'm not even riled up because she feels bland or uninteresting, and this is ME we're talking about. I'm just frustrated because she feels so mediocre. If this is supposed to be a new, important character who might even replace Nissa for a long time, make her card so powerful it WOWs people. That's how you create sympathy and interest for a character right from the get-go. Imagine if all lorwyn 5 were on the powerlevel of the first chandra, players wouldn't have given one single **** for each of those characters.
So, a Cat Spirit token or something? Garruk did tokens too. Yeah, they could be different creature types, but it still isn't exactly novel.
You aren't supposed to post card designs outside of the Custom cards creation forum. You can list abilities without adding on a mana cost and starting loyalty. I've snipped those from the quote for demonstrative purposes.
Trouble is, between pre-curse Garruk and Nissa, so much of green's viable mechanical space has already been explored. Thus, with Vivien they went for the "green bases", covering the two card types green cares about on a regular basis, the three main removal types, and the most common game-ending green effect. It's not flashy or novel, because it isn't supposed to be. Vivien combines traits from both Garruk and Nissa for the purposes of giving us green's standard PW.
Green's problem is that it probably has the least diverse toolbox of all five colors, explaining why we're only now getting our fourth monogreen PW (following Garruk, Nissa, and Freyalise). Thematically, it's also strongly tied to either animals or plants, meaning the greatest diversity in green PWs comes from creature type focus. And most of those creature types would probably be represented in multicolor, like Cats, Wolves, Snakes, etc.
And I think that all has to do with green being the diverse resource color, being the main color for mana ramp and color fixing, the secondary color for card draw and life gain, and the best retrieval color, and thus the color most strongly dependent on other colors to branch out.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
No, that wouldn't make sense, because her bow has the essence of what are probably many different species preserved in it. Also this means that you aren't trying to think outside the box where this woman's card is concerned.
You could justify her +1 by saying that the creatures in your library are the creature spirits in her bow, and you casting them is equivalent to Vivien firing her bow. Instead of that roundabout justification though, I'd prefer her card to literally do the Pokemon Trainer thing.
Her art basically screams "token maker", so, for me, it is a fail that she isn't one. She could exile creatures from somewhere (yard would probably play best, but it might feel too black, the line is fuzzy there) to make copies, or mark creatures in some way to "store" them and make copies when they die. Let's hope her other versions actually convey her flavor.
Also, there is nothing wrong with her being "Garruk 2.0" when he is firmly BG now.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
She's is generic green the same way Chandra is generic red, Jace is generic blue and Liliana is generic black. That's the point of these characters, to be a posterboy of their colors. In fact she feels a lot like a green version of Liliana Vess.
I wonder how many of you would dislike her if she was printed in the initial cycle of PW cards. The design team can't keep publishing cards as if every player have been playing the game from many years. From set themes, art direction, to face characters, to level of complexity, standard always needs a fraction of cards that behaves as if they where the first and only set of MTG ever printed. The reason is that for starting players, that IS the case and they need something representative of the game to chew.
Not printing core sets was a HUGE mistake. Imagine yourself starting to play magic during Kaladesh-Amonkhet-Ixalan standard. You wouldn't know wtf the game is about - is it about dinosaurs fighting vampires or grimdark egyptian mythos ? The game is all over the place and building up brand recognition for players starting now is impossible because the art direction, color themes, mechanics, everything is changing from set to set. MTG is about it's colors and what they represent but it's really difficult to understand that via advanced sets where colors subsidize flavors and mechanics and not the other way around.
So maybe you don't need a set where green is just forest animals and elves, blue is fishes and nerd mages, black is zombies and evil people, red is fire and goblins and cool mages and white is all things lawful good. But new players definitely do in order to digest the game, taste something that is not setting dependant and grookable.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
What are you, a cop?
That's what I was originally going to do, but given this forum's penchant for whining about literally everything I figured I was safer giving them the context of a cost.
Laughed at the part on black being "zombies and bad people". Anyway, I agree with you. We need core sets. My friend Karen finds Amonkhet rules complicated... but when I dug up some old precon decks of 7th ed, she took a liking to the game right away - because the cards are easier to understand. She started with black because some creatures looked like from a horror movie, then moved on to using the white precon because the white people are the good guys.
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About the new walker... I think every walker got some hate when they were first printed. The originals... Jace, Chandra, Garruk, Liliana were mentioned as Urza wanna be. For Vivien, I guess it'e because of the name being like a real person and other complaint is the abilities. The more people who don't like her, the easier for me to get copies then.
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The art of Vivien's Invocation was influencing me, reminded me of totem armor and various creature tokens.
And if you're referring to catching Pokemon, that would probably require her card to be GU.
Your comment does provoke a thought, though; what if she can cast creature cards from your graveyard to represent conjuring the essence of species killed off by Bolas?
No need to be rude, I was quoting one of the forum's rules. Mods have had to get on people about that before, and I'm trying to help people avoid those mistakes, for both theirs and the mods' sakes. I'm giving you advice on proverbially driving safe and signaling so a cop doesn't have to pull you over for a ticket.
I'll concur about the forum's penchant for whining, but rules are rules. Besides, they'd whine about the cost being 1 too high; goodness knows if I had a nickel for every time I've seen that comment, I could buy a booster pack of Magic cards. People will whine no matter what you do. Point is, just stick to the abilities and maybe the loyalty costs so you don't get modded. Make things easier for yourself and the mods.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
...and this is coming from a guy that normally doesn’t suspect sexism as the culprit as much.
Huatli’s character kinda got kinda attacked by many in the storyline thread....for her character flaws. A silly reason.
I mean, diversity and well-rounded characters are a good thing right?!?
I dunno, I mean it’s been kind of fun these past few years seeing more women in Magic. The last two years, each Christmas I purchase 2 planeswalker decks as gifts for a random young girl in the community, hoping to spark a lil planeswalker somewhere. (Distributed by a local charity like angel tree, I’m not a creep lol)
And y’know what?
It’s been fun having so many options of interesting female Planeswalkers to choose from!
I’m not necessarily saying everyone is being influenced by sexism but I think a few might be.
I mean her description hardly reads boring, her world has been lost and all she has to remember it are her summons!
My life is boring. Your life is boring. But I don’t see anything bland in Vivian’s description.
And her story has just begun!
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No but I am for all intensive purposes.
This is a reminder for all not just you.
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thanks guys and keep up the discussion,
Ulka
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My own personal thoughts on Vivian is she has a nice base as most walkers get in their first iteration (if expected to return or have rapid character growth) that is a more toned down card. She may be kinda bland but honestly sometime bland gets the job done.
This makes me think of Disney Princesses, and gives me an idea for a WUBRG Princess planeswalker that summons other planeswalkers.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Yes. You are right and I could have worded that better to come across as opinion rather than fact.
"I agree, and personally find the whole name thing silly."
I just find it odd that people are so focused on her name, when there are a plethora of other characters (planeswalker or otherwise) in Magic with relatively common real names already.
I suppose at least part of it is that many of those names are of foreign origin (thus not well know in the US) so many players simply don't realize how common they are.
Another word for simplicity in card design is elegance. They didn't manage to keep that first ability from being a million words, though.
This is just another color swap on the Ob Nixilis Reignited/Jace, Unraveler of Secrets/Teferi, Hero of Dominaria template, but this is the first green walker to fall into the +:Phyrexian Arena / -: removal template, and the first Green walker under 6 mana to generate actual card advantage with its + ability; I wouldn't be surprised if that's what some deck/cube wants.
Hey, no problem. Water under the bridge. I have a hard time with the knee-jerk reaction of some on the site that if you criticize WotC for anything they circle the wagons and will defend them to the death. The fact is Vivien and Reid put together is the most common pairings of first and last name that Wizards has ever used on a planeswalker. I'm not talking legends here like Angus MacKenzie or Tetsuo Umezawa. Planeswalkers (to my mind) are these fantastical beings that are 1 in a million. They should have 1 in a million stories, abilities and names. Just my opinion, nothing more. But I like to defend my opinion and will do so aggressively most of the time.
Grand scheme of life, the name is meaningless. To a rabid fan and customer with high expectations like myself, it can be a small issue. Besides, does anyone wonder why I chose my Username? I did so very intentionally. At this point I've said my piece and need to let it go. Cheers.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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DFC Garruk fights - but with loyalty rather than p/t.
EDIT:
To be fair: It's consistent if you take into consideration complaints about plenty of other characters. I think a lot of old characters get grandfathered in, "Will" from Battlebond got the exact same complaint. You could say it was silly then as well, but if you have to go all the way back, then maybe you are just talking about people who have consistently disliked a lot of other names as well.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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Their stories should be 1 in a million because of their innate ability to planeswalk, so yes, that makes sense.
Name on the other hand are giving to babies, most babies are not planeswalkers (or even mages), they are just babies, so their parents probably give them a family name and are done with it (aside from dragons apparently)
It is completely reasonable from a lore standpoint to get whatever plane's equivalent of John Smith as a planeswalker name (in fact, its more likely than a unique name)