For being a $4/pack set, this is really good. There are some really good and important included reprints. What makes this set so good is it does a great job with all the $5-$10 rares that would've made you salty has this been a Masters set. Even on a $2.50 rare, there's a chance you could get a Chain Lightning or StP at uncommon to end up even with your pack. At the same time, there are some really solid, easy win rares like Seedborn Muse, Diabolic Intent, and Greater Good. And don't forget that the land cycle is going to be very desirable for EDH alone. And then you have the mythics, where you have some clear winners like TNN, Doubling Season, and Land Tax. And there a ton of cards that have first time foil printing, meaning even if the normal version isn't super valuable, the foil multiplier will be massive just because this is the only way to get a foil or the only foil is a rare Judge promo or whatever.
This set won't compete with value-wise nor age as well as Masters sets like MMA, MM3, or EMA, but it's still overall a solid set. Going into it, there are a ton of valuable cards, and while many of them are only valuable due to scarcity and their prices will crash, there are still cards in here that will hold significant value. TNN will always be valuable, and its foil version will be incredibly expensive. Doubling Season, while not worth the $60 it is now, will be a $15-$20 card for a long while imo. And the land cycle will be very much desired for eternity for EDH. Overall, this set did what it needed to do, which is make a great set for EDH and other multiplayer formats, while having interesting flavor/theme and it seems like it will have a solid limited environment. I hope this set is successful financially so they'll do another one of these. It just sucks this won't be on MTGO for cards like TNN.
Are there any notable rarity downshifts (specifically for Pauper purposes?) I'm bad at seeing those things off the bat, being that I'm not familiar with older rarities.
Some of you were "THE BEST SET EVER!" But then To "this set is meh" type of people
How shocking *sarcastic voice*
How many times do I have to tell you people they start with the spicy stuff but end with the not as hype stuff basicly your focusing on the bad stuff rather than what good stuff we got.
Did I give that impression? My honest impression of the set through this entire thing was golf clapping at wizards finally making a set that had reprints people wanted without putting them in a 240 msrp box. Here is the thing, though: it doesn't matter. The part that matters is if people are going to draft it. If the set has a valuable mythic that desperately needed a reprint, I'm not going to run out to the store and order a case at 500-600 usd (I think it is 6 boxes per case with this one?); I'm going to TCGPlayer and ordering the single card from mass box opener #65 or something.
That and Assist is the dumbest mechanic I've seen in ages get through the R&D. They printed intentionally overcosted cards in the set because they are reasoning two players can share their resources and get cards out faster. The trouble is that means your partner is holding up resources to play some card you just pulled. None of the cards I saw really felt like they made this proposition worthwhile. Why pay 4 generic and 1 green for a beater when those resources could put out two individual creatures that could have extra effects to them? Not to mention if the opponent just removes the creature, both players wasted effort getting it out when they could have done something better.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The more utility Assists (Bring Down, Play of the Game, Out of Bounds) are overall fine? The prices are only 1-2 colorless higher than what that would be. Which means in a multiplayer format, it's got a level of flexibility that's worthwhile.
Mostly for Commander, but if your friends like doing Archenemy those cards have a place there too. The creatures are all... yeah, bad. They don't have the space to be like 'let's not let the Combo player win, help me out' and thus push the costs to horrifically too high to be worth it. If you build to specifically play in 2HG as a format, there's a little space for a team where one deck runs out of gas quickly so they just need manasinks and those help, but there are better mana sinks.
The lack of a red instant/sorcery assist also annoys me. Because I wanted to help someone pay theirs with my Pyromancer's Goggles (while hopefully they also use a Pyromancer's Goggles) for some shenanigans.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Assist is definitely a pretty boring mechanic. I only remember seeing one or two assist spells that looked remotely interesting, and the rest just seemed like a huge waste of a turn. I guess it lets your partner hold back resources but still spend their mana on their turn?? I dunno, hard to find a situation in which it feels like it's worth it.
My only real issue with the new cards is Assist makes some of the cards very underwhelming for their costs. I understand that they are not really made to be played solo, but it's a bit strange pay 8 mana for a 3/4 to get a spell back when I could just play Mnemonic Wall.
This set is still a great one. I didn't expect much out of the last cards, as those are meant to be useless for most people a lot of the time. We did get a few small surprises like Magmatic Force and it being able to be foil for the first time.
Again, this set is great with how many great reprints it gave us. This is far better than the last two Masters sets combined, easily. This is what reprint sets should be like.
Why pay 4 generic and 1 green for a beater when those resources could put out two individual creatures that could have extra effects to them?
Because it only costs one card instead of two. If your team is tapping out to cast one creature a turn, and the other team is tapping out to cast two creatures a turn, you are going to accumulate cards while they don't. This gives you options later.
Additionally, Assist significantly smooths out draws. In 2HG limited, it's rare for both partners to draw perfectly on-curve. What do you do when you are on turn 2 with no 2-drops? With Assist, you can contribute to your partner. It also massively smooths out both mana screw and mana flood - the only thing it doesn't fix is colored mana requirements.
2HG is my primary format and I can tell you Assist is absolutely a wonderful mechanic. We have wanted something like this for years.
Why pay 4 generic and 1 green for a beater when those resources could put out two individual creatures that could have extra effects to them?
Because it only costs one card instead of two. If your team is tapping out to cast one creature a turn, and the other team is tapping out to cast two creatures a turn, you are going to accumulate cards while they don't. This gives you options later.
Additionally, Assist significantly smooths out draws. In 2HG limited, it's rare for both partners to draw perfectly on-curve. What do you do when you are on turn 2 with no 2-drops? With Assist, you can contribute to your partner. It also massively smooths out both mana screw and mana flood - the only thing it doesn't fix is colored mana requirements.
2HG is my primary format and I can tell you Assist is absolutely a wonderful mechanic. We have wanted something like this for years.
If you say so. Charging Binox and Dwarven Lightsmith seem horrible outside draft / limited in this set, but if someone is playing limited with a friend than there sometimes isn't another option.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Why pay 4 generic and 1 green for a beater when those resources could put out two individual creatures that could have extra effects to them?
Because it only costs one card instead of two. If your team is tapping out to cast one creature a turn, and the other team is tapping out to cast two creatures a turn, you are going to accumulate cards while they don't. This gives you options later.
Additionally, Assist significantly smooths out draws. In 2HG limited, it's rare for both partners to draw perfectly on-curve. What do you do when you are on turn 2 with no 2-drops? With Assist, you can contribute to your partner. It also massively smooths out both mana screw and mana flood - the only thing it doesn't fix is colored mana requirements.
2HG is my primary format and I can tell you Assist is absolutely a wonderful mechanic. We have wanted something like this for years.
If you say so. Charging Binox and Dwarven Lightsmith seem horrible outside draft / limited in this set, but if someone is playing limited with a friend than there sometimes isn't another option.
I mean, they're both commons. Being horrible outside draft/limited is... kinda a given, with playability outside of that the exception, not the rule.
The few assist cards that are good that I'm seeing are Game Plan, and the crowd goes wild. Out of Bounds feels like it's too much mana for a simple effect. I could cast that and have my friend cover for the 2 mana, or I can just use Counter Spell or some of the more situational counters. Another one would be Play of the Game, but if I'm using that I can't help but feel like I could just use Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God. It mostly seems like assist got used as a limited mechanic.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The few assist cards that are good that I'm seeing are Game Plan, and the crowd goes wild. Out of Bounds feels like it's too much mana for a simple effect. I could cast that and have my friend cover for the 2 mana, or I can just use Counter Spell or some of the more situational counters. Another one would be Play of the Game, but if I'm using that I can't help but feel like I could just use Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God. It mostly seems like assist got used as a limited mechanic.
It’s exile and all non-land. Merciless Eviction does a more narrow version of that for a bit less. Not saying it’s cheap, but an exiling board reset is kind of rare.
The few assist cards that are good that I'm seeing are Game Plan, and the crowd goes wild. Out of Bounds feels like it's too much mana for a simple effect. I could cast that and have my friend cover for the 2 mana, or I can just use Counter Spell or some of the more situational counters. Another one would be Play of the Game, but if I'm using that I can't help but feel like I could just use Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God. It mostly seems like assist got used as a limited mechanic.
I mean, commander makes comparisons to other cards less of an issue since you have an incentive to just play both. Countermagic and board wipes are also the most likely to get opponents to chip in to stop another player.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
The set is one of the best set even printed imho. Ever
You and I are polar opposites. I feel it is one of the worst sets ever printed. Something tells me it probably falls between the two.
So your insight of the day is that this set probably falls somewhere between one of the best sets and one of the worst sets? You really don't like your probabilities low, do you`?
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I mostly play Modern. This set has ONE card I'm happy to see reptinted (Spell Snare). Why would it fare among the best reprint sets ever?
Okay, reprinting overpriced EDH/casual cards is good. But we've got annual Commander product designed specifically for that! They could've put Doubling Season in a Commander 20XX deck years ago and it would've never become a $60 card. On another note, in my experience it's been considerably more difficult to move pricey casual cards compared to constructed staples. Even though the set has high EV, the liquidity might just not be there.
Oh, and the art is ugly. It's up there with Battle for Zendikar in the contest for the most plastic set ever.
Different products for different crowds, huh? I guess I never was in the crowd for this one.
Okay, reprinting overpriced EDH/casual cards is good. But we've got annual Commander product designed specifically for that!
When were the Commander decks made for this purpose? It's not often we get a reprint that costs more than $20 in them and since they have to follow one or several themes we don't get random high costing reprints like in this set.
As for Doubling Season not becoming a $60 card if it was in one deck one year, it still would have. That deck would have been scooped up just because of Doubling Season and its price wouldn't have dropped much, if at all.
The set is one of the best set even printed imho. Ever
You and I are polar opposites. I feel it is one of the worst sets ever printed. Something tells me it probably falls between the two.
So your insight of the day is that this set probably falls somewhere between one of the best sets and one of the worst sets? You really don't like your probabilities low, do you`?
Can you prove me wrong?
Personally I rank this set somewhere around Fallen Empires or Homelands. As I said, truth of the matter is it probably falls somewhere in the lower center of the bell curve. (art,strength,draft ability,value,play all together) What exactly was your point? Probability is that you are poking a stick at me is my guess to provoke a reaction.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The set is one of the best set even printed imho. Ever
You and I are polar opposites. I feel it is one of the worst sets ever printed. Something tells me it probably falls between the two.
Why do you think its one of the worst sets?
Thanks for asking. Remember these are personal preferences and you inquired on them.
1. Artwork is Terribad. Juvenile, boring and bland.
2. Artwork bit too much SJW for my taste as well.
3. 2HG is the most boring format to me.
4. The mechanics limit many cards to 2HG. (or EDH which I also don't like playing)
5. The reprints are a blatant, "Hey players buy me cause we have semi-lotto cards inside".
6. I don't want to play a game aimed at 8 to 12 year olds.
7. The "plane" of Kylem blows hard. 8 year olds with imaginary pets dueling to the pain is beyond my suspension of disbelief.
8. Gavin Verhey is a palooka. Can't stand him or whatever he comes up with.
You asked.
With that said these are all my personal beliefs nothing more, nothing less. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you like the set, buy it and play the heck out of it. I'll save my money for different product.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Oh yeah, I LOVE the friend or foe mechanic because it is in that family of mechanics that open up choices and gameplay options. It's why I liked Collective Brutality and Collective Effort. Kicker / Overload / Escalate are basically all the same mechanic, but with different names. I would have preferred they kept it all to kicker instead of confusing the heck out of players with ridiculous keywords, but that's WoTC post 2013.
Private Mod Note
():
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Thanks for asking. Remember these are personal preferences and you inquired on them.
1. Artwork is Terribad. Juvenile, boring and bland.
2. Artwork bit too much SJW for my taste as well.
It's one thing to not like some art, that's subjective, but how can art be SJW? And if it is "SJW" in what ways?
5. The reprints are a blatant, "Hey players buy me cause we have semi-lotto cards inside".
Considering the $4 packs this is far more acceptable than the Xtreme lotto cards inside $10 packs. I'd take the first over the latter any day, but I guess you don't?
6. I don't want to play a game aimed at 8 to 12 year olds.
That's pretty much Magic for you, especially the last few years, so not sure why this set brings that out in you. 14+ years ago this set really wasn't being sold any different than now.
7. The "plane" of Kylem blows hard. 8 year olds with imaginary pets dueling to the pain is beyond my suspension of disbelief.
This is just over exaggerating. There's ONE character like that and somehow that means the whole plane is like that? That's just you being biased based on you disliking one character. It's okay to not like something but you have to admit your bias at the very least.
I will admit though there isn't much separating this plane from the others minus the crazy hair colors. It's not very fleshed out.
Thanks for asking. Remember these are personal preferences and you inquired on them.
1. Artwork is Terribad. Juvenile, boring and bland.
2. Artwork bit too much SJW for my taste as well.
It's one thing to not like some art, that's subjective, but how can art be SJW? And if it is "SJW" in what ways?
5. The reprints are a blatant, "Hey players buy me cause we have semi-lotto cards inside".
Considering the $4 packs this is far more acceptable than the Xtreme lotto cards inside $10 packs. I'd take the first over the latter any day, but I guess you don't?
6. I don't want to play a game aimed at 8 to 12 year olds.
That's pretty much Magic for you, especially the last few years, so not sure why this set brings that out in you. 14+ years ago this set really wasn't being sold any different than now.
7. The "plane" of Kylem blows hard. 8 year olds with imaginary pets dueling to the pain is beyond my suspension of disbelief.
This is just over exaggerating. There's ONE character like that and somehow that means the whole plane is that? That's just you being biased based on you disliking one character. It's okay to not like something but you have to admit that not liking it because of one character is over the top.
I will admit though there isn't much separating this plane from the others minus the crazy hair colors. It's not very fleshed out.
You are free to have your opinions on my opinions. But yours do not invalidate mine. Just like mine don't invalidate someone else's. Others have brought up my points on ALL of my points, I don't stand alone there, just as many don't subscribe to them. We have to agree to disagree and move on. People shouldn't take to heart criticisms over something they like. Find someone who share's a like mind with you and talk it out with them. In the end we will see what shakes out if the set sells or bombs. No need to argue personal preferences, its pointless. We have to move on. No harm no foul.
It's one thing to not like some art, that's subjective, but how can art be SJW? And if it is "SJW" in what ways?
^^^^^This I would actually like to discuss. Problem is there are many (on both sides) that can't handle an honest and truthful conversation on the topic. I just feel its best to leave sleeping dogs lie on this one at this time.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Let's stop feeding the obvious troll who comes into threads about a product meant for Two-Headed Giant when he's already going to hate it because he dislikes card games meant for children and Two-Headed Giant.
---
To defend Out of Bounds (and Play of the Game).
Out of Bounds couldn't be printed at 2U, just, flat out. Moving it to 1UU makes the Assist weaker since there's only one shareable mana. 3U is the right price even if it's fairly overcosted to play yourself, but when used in the format it's meant for, this works very easily. Because if you have a hand of Counterspell and Out of Bounds, you only need to hold up UUU to use both. Which if you can politics out some help on this, means you can get someone fairly easily with that spare hard counter at U.
Play of the Game is similar only the effect is far more pushed than just 'kill all creatures.' The lowest a multi-permanent type exile board wipe could be (in this day and age) would be 6 (and that's fairly buff for removal). 7 is more likely? So that'd put it at 5WW. There are boards where you just want to murder a lot of things because you (and the table) are all about to die. And just making sure anything not named Squee is super gone is worth the mana cost here. Getting someone else to go halfsies on it is just... well, probably someone went off and is about to kill you all.
There's an interesting space of a 'downside(?)' they could have given the ETB effect weaker creatures, of everyone who paid in getting the effect. BUT while a more interesting gameplay situation, it'd also be a lot harder to balance. But at the end of the day the 3/4 vampire is just rubbish who should not have cost eight.
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This set won't compete with value-wise nor age as well as Masters sets like MMA, MM3, or EMA, but it's still overall a solid set. Going into it, there are a ton of valuable cards, and while many of them are only valuable due to scarcity and their prices will crash, there are still cards in here that will hold significant value. TNN will always be valuable, and its foil version will be incredibly expensive. Doubling Season, while not worth the $60 it is now, will be a $15-$20 card for a long while imo. And the land cycle will be very much desired for eternity for EDH. Overall, this set did what it needed to do, which is make a great set for EDH and other multiplayer formats, while having interesting flavor/theme and it seems like it will have a solid limited environment. I hope this set is successful financially so they'll do another one of these. It just sucks this won't be on MTGO for cards like TNN.
Not sure if they'll do anything, but Peace Strider and Pierce Strider got shifted to common.
Did I give that impression? My honest impression of the set through this entire thing was golf clapping at wizards finally making a set that had reprints people wanted without putting them in a 240 msrp box. Here is the thing, though: it doesn't matter. The part that matters is if people are going to draft it. If the set has a valuable mythic that desperately needed a reprint, I'm not going to run out to the store and order a case at 500-600 usd (I think it is 6 boxes per case with this one?); I'm going to TCGPlayer and ordering the single card from mass box opener #65 or something.
That and Assist is the dumbest mechanic I've seen in ages get through the R&D. They printed intentionally overcosted cards in the set because they are reasoning two players can share their resources and get cards out faster. The trouble is that means your partner is holding up resources to play some card you just pulled. None of the cards I saw really felt like they made this proposition worthwhile. Why pay 4 generic and 1 green for a beater when those resources could put out two individual creatures that could have extra effects to them? Not to mention if the opponent just removes the creature, both players wasted effort getting it out when they could have done something better.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Mostly for Commander, but if your friends like doing Archenemy those cards have a place there too. The creatures are all... yeah, bad. They don't have the space to be like 'let's not let the Combo player win, help me out' and thus push the costs to horrifically too high to be worth it. If you build to specifically play in 2HG as a format, there's a little space for a team where one deck runs out of gas quickly so they just need manasinks and those help, but there are better mana sinks.
The lack of a red instant/sorcery assist also annoys me. Because I wanted to help someone pay theirs with my Pyromancer's Goggles (while hopefully they also use a Pyromancer's Goggles) for some shenanigans.
On phasing:
This set is still a great one. I didn't expect much out of the last cards, as those are meant to be useless for most people a lot of the time. We did get a few small surprises like Magmatic Force and it being able to be foil for the first time.
Again, this set is great with how many great reprints it gave us. This is far better than the last two Masters sets combined, easily. This is what reprint sets should be like.
Additionally, Assist significantly smooths out draws. In 2HG limited, it's rare for both partners to draw perfectly on-curve. What do you do when you are on turn 2 with no 2-drops? With Assist, you can contribute to your partner. It also massively smooths out both mana screw and mana flood - the only thing it doesn't fix is colored mana requirements.
2HG is my primary format and I can tell you Assist is absolutely a wonderful mechanic. We have wanted something like this for years.
If you say so. Charging Binox and Dwarven Lightsmith seem horrible outside draft / limited in this set, but if someone is playing limited with a friend than there sometimes isn't another option.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It’s exile and all non-land. Merciless Eviction does a more narrow version of that for a bit less. Not saying it’s cheap, but an exiling board reset is kind of rare.
I mean, commander makes comparisons to other cards less of an issue since you have an incentive to just play both. Countermagic and board wipes are also the most likely to get opponents to chip in to stop another player.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
So your insight of the day is that this set probably falls somewhere between one of the best sets and one of the worst sets? You really don't like your probabilities low, do you`?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Okay, reprinting overpriced EDH/casual cards is good. But we've got annual Commander product designed specifically for that! They could've put Doubling Season in a Commander 20XX deck years ago and it would've never become a $60 card. On another note, in my experience it's been considerably more difficult to move pricey casual cards compared to constructed staples. Even though the set has high EV, the liquidity might just not be there.
Oh, and the art is ugly. It's up there with Battle for Zendikar in the contest for the most plastic set ever.
Different products for different crowds, huh? I guess I never was in the crowd for this one.
When were the Commander decks made for this purpose? It's not often we get a reprint that costs more than $20 in them and since they have to follow one or several themes we don't get random high costing reprints like in this set.
As for Doubling Season not becoming a $60 card if it was in one deck one year, it still would have. That deck would have been scooped up just because of Doubling Season and its price wouldn't have dropped much, if at all.
Can you prove me wrong?
Personally I rank this set somewhere around Fallen Empires or Homelands. As I said, truth of the matter is it probably falls somewhere in the lower center of the bell curve. (art,strength,draft ability,value,play all together) What exactly was your point? Probability is that you are poking a stick at me is my guess to provoke a reaction.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Thanks for asking. Remember these are personal preferences and you inquired on them.
1. Artwork is Terribad. Juvenile, boring and bland.
2. Artwork bit too much SJW for my taste as well.
3. 2HG is the most boring format to me.
4. The mechanics limit many cards to 2HG. (or EDH which I also don't like playing)
5. The reprints are a blatant, "Hey players buy me cause we have semi-lotto cards inside".
6. I don't want to play a game aimed at 8 to 12 year olds.
7. The "plane" of Kylem blows hard. 8 year olds with imaginary pets dueling to the pain is beyond my suspension of disbelief.
8. Gavin Verhey is a palooka. Can't stand him or whatever he comes up with.
You asked.
With that said these are all my personal beliefs nothing more, nothing less. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you like the set, buy it and play the heck out of it. I'll save my money for different product.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Oh yeah, I LOVE the friend or foe mechanic because it is in that family of mechanics that open up choices and gameplay options. It's why I liked Collective Brutality and Collective Effort. Kicker / Overload / Escalate are basically all the same mechanic, but with different names. I would have preferred they kept it all to kicker instead of confusing the heck out of players with ridiculous keywords, but that's WoTC post 2013.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It's one thing to not like some art, that's subjective, but how can art be SJW? And if it is "SJW" in what ways?
Considering the $4 packs this is far more acceptable than the Xtreme lotto cards inside $10 packs. I'd take the first over the latter any day, but I guess you don't?
That's pretty much Magic for you, especially the last few years, so not sure why this set brings that out in you. 14+ years ago this set really wasn't being sold any different than now.
This is just over exaggerating. There's ONE character like that and somehow that means the whole plane is like that? That's just you being biased based on you disliking one character. It's okay to not like something but you have to admit your bias at the very least.
I will admit though there isn't much separating this plane from the others minus the crazy hair colors. It's not very fleshed out.
You are free to have your opinions on my opinions. But yours do not invalidate mine. Just like mine don't invalidate someone else's. Others have brought up my points on ALL of my points, I don't stand alone there, just as many don't subscribe to them. We have to agree to disagree and move on. People shouldn't take to heart criticisms over something they like. Find someone who share's a like mind with you and talk it out with them. In the end we will see what shakes out if the set sells or bombs. No need to argue personal preferences, its pointless. We have to move on. No harm no foul.
^^^^^This I would actually like to discuss. Problem is there are many (on both sides) that can't handle an honest and truthful conversation on the topic. I just feel its best to leave sleeping dogs lie on this one at this time.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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To defend Out of Bounds (and Play of the Game).
Out of Bounds couldn't be printed at 2U, just, flat out. Moving it to 1UU makes the Assist weaker since there's only one shareable mana. 3U is the right price even if it's fairly overcosted to play yourself, but when used in the format it's meant for, this works very easily. Because if you have a hand of Counterspell and Out of Bounds, you only need to hold up UUU to use both. Which if you can politics out some help on this, means you can get someone fairly easily with that spare hard counter at U.
Play of the Game is similar only the effect is far more pushed than just 'kill all creatures.' The lowest a multi-permanent type exile board wipe could be (in this day and age) would be 6 (and that's fairly buff for removal). 7 is more likely? So that'd put it at 5WW. There are boards where you just want to murder a lot of things because you (and the table) are all about to die. And just making sure anything not named Squee is super gone is worth the mana cost here. Getting someone else to go halfsies on it is just... well, probably someone went off and is about to kill you all.
There's an interesting space of a 'downside(?)' they could have given the ETB effect weaker creatures, of everyone who paid in getting the effect. BUT while a more interesting gameplay situation, it'd also be a lot harder to balance. But at the end of the day the 3/4 vampire is just rubbish who should not have cost eight.