Once again, heavily invested EDH players are mad that they weren't catered to in even the smallest details of a card even as a bunch of Commander stuff is being printed.
No, that's a new player problem. Enfranchised players know how to figure out rules ambiguity, but this game is not made only of enfranchised players. I don't like this, because it isn't elegant designwise nor newbie-friendly at all, but is not a problem for me, personally.
Once again, heavily invested EDH players are mad that they weren't catered to in even the smallest details of a card even as a bunch of Commander stuff is being printed.
Meh, honestly i don't care at all.
Actually i do, because i know i will have to explain that ability many, many times.
At the end we are just giving costructing criticism about an ability that no not-so-expert player will be able to understand the first time he sees it.
During the draft i will actually be in advantage, i know some players that will distractly skip over some partners because they won't fully understand the mechanic. Yay better for me, but i don't think it will be good for wotc
Yep, what they said. Heavily invested EDH players tend to know a lot of cards and how they work; we are used to complication and memorization. The reason we point this out is not because we don't understand, but because we know others will not understand. I've already had to quote the mechanics article to people on this site (who tend to be more heavily invested than a basic noob) to show that "Partner with" does count as a search and can be interacted with using Aven Mindcensor, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Stranglehold, etc. If WOTC had simply put the rules-relevant word there, I (hopefully) wouldn't have had that conversation. It's like printing Lightning Bolt in a new set without the word "target" - you don't do that because it muddies the game.
And the original meaning of Partner is that they can both be your commander, which not only did they not write on the new cards, but they made a new definition and put it on non-legendaries that can't even be a commander. This will cause confusion, and we will have to explain it over and over.
And I can't wait until someone tries to reverse-logic the new functionality to the old Partner commanders - "Does that mean I can run a deck with every Partner in the 99 and when each comes into play, search for any other Partner?"
These two are very nice. The blue one can easily be played as a commander or be played in just about anything. The red one is about as good, maybe only a little less as your opponent needing to attack may hurt you.
I look forward to fitting in one or both into a deck or two.
Honestly, I'm probably mostly jaded on this because of not liking the Aesthetics of the set, but I'll admit they will make an interesting partner commander. That and if this works the way I think it does, if you get one you get both in the same pack.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I like the cards for what they do, but I hate their names, designs, and the art style. They look like random characters from Thor:Ragnarok and they have basic af Earth human names.
Commander is not a game about teamwork. It has politics, but not teams of people working together for the entire match.
But I was talking specifically on Will and Rowan, not other cards. There's nothing on Will and Rowan that leads to 2HG to work necessairly better than EDH. In all fairness, they actually work mechanically better in Commander than 2HG, since in 2HG if one of them dies or get countered, the pair get broken for the rest of the match, while in Commander you can recast them continuously, giving really the idea of "working togeter for the entire match".
4. And... they changed their mind on that.
Oh well that happend. But it's worrying when they change idea in the same set when they said the exact opposite of what they meant to do for that set. That's kinda schizofrenical, if you ask me.
3. Except... they aren't.
Except they are dude. Stop mirror climbing. Do you realize that people here are confused even from the fact that "Partner with" remainder text doesn't even got the word "search"? This templating is a failure if the purpose was to giving new players an easy life to get how cards works. I foresee a mess when Battlebond gonna get released.
Those slots are actually important because they also give the chance to visit old Planeswalkers that don't exist.
Meh. One doesn't exclude the other. They like to mix new characters with old ones and Commander is a annual product anyway, is not like if they missed to put something this year, they haven't got a chance another year.
1. The fact they have synergy with each other and make sense in a team setting with their target player stuff seems to say they are more fitting for 2HG. In what Commander game would you want to give an opponent a helpful emblem?
2. I was referring to your citing Maro with the Saheeli thing. For the Partners in this set adding Commander specific wording does nothing for them on a mechanical level, so they excluded it. The exception is the twins. They can’t be played as Commanders without the text. There is no hypocrisy here. The two are different cases.
3. There is a difference between you being confused and something being confusing. Everyone is not confused by the cards here. They’re very straight forward to myself and others. That keeps them from being confusing because it is not a trait it inherently possesses. That you find them confusing, or that you think somehow that upon hearing how they work players won’t get it in large enough numbers to matter, is irrelevant. Until the latter comes to pass speculation isn’t proof.
4. That you don’t care doesn’t mean others don’t, including Wizards. Battlebond isn’t ruined because two Mythic Rares refer to a format that has high overlap with 2HG. That’s part of why they went with Partner instead of a different mechanic in the end I’m sure. The Planeswalkers also, as I keep saying, fit in Battlebond more than Commander. The synergy between their +2 alone makes that obvious.
So maybe I'll get this right...
Some say Rowans +2 might not be all that great for it invites her to be attacked, or you or your teammate? It does say target player not opponent right? Just pick yourself or your teammante if you were going to attack anyway or you have no creatures on board to risk? Free +2 I say, and forcing your opponents hand in the combat phase can also be advantage to you as well.
And the leaving SEARCH out of the reminder text is dumb and confusing. Not everyone is looking up rules as they are playing and sometimes actually just go with the card text (especially if it has reminder text to supposedly remind you of the rule of the mechanic). Leaving that word out makes a big difference
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
So maybe I'll get this right...
Some say Rowans +2 might not be all that great for it invites her to be attacked, or you or your teammate? It does say target player not opponent right? Just pick yourself or your teammante if you were going to attack anyway or you have no creatures on board to risk? Free +2 I say, and forcing your opponents hand in the combat phase can also be advantage to you as well.
And the leaving SEARCH out of the reminder text is dumb and confusing. Not everyone is looking up rules as they are playing and sometimes actually just go with the card text (especially if it has reminder text to supposedly remind you of the rule of the mechanic). Leaving that word out makes a big difference
Does it make a big difference? How many cards actually interact with searches on a regular basis? Most of the ones that do are quirky one off rares from commander sets, so expecting someone who's running them to have a modicum of understanding that reminder text is not explicitly rules text and know to look it up to check, especially when it's almost certainly going to be a case covered by the oracle rulings, is not absurd.
It does make a difference and the excuse of sake of brevity is absurd when it comes to clarity.
You have to look from a new players perspective and not from our personal knowledge of the game. Its a new introduced mechanic which isnt explained properly through the reminder text. Its just seems lazy or a mistake.
(When this creature enters the battlefield, target player may search their library for Soulblade Corrupter and put it into their hand, then shuffle)
That is only ONE more word than what it is now... Search and And are added and from is removed
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
So I'm confused at the commander rules. Can both be commanders in the same deck? If so, can they both be in the same command zone? Or do you choose one to be your general and the other is shuffled in your deck?
And I can't wait until someone tries to reverse-logic the new functionality to the old Partner commanders - "Does that mean I can run a deck with every Partner in the 99 and when each comes into play, search for any other Partner?"
This. The similarities of the mechanic names as well as the ambiguity of the reminder text will cause a lot of confusion. WoTC messed up on this one.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Protection from reason (Decadent_Creed can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by reason.)
I would've preferred the spell copying ability emblem on the red planeswalker and the activated ability copying ability emblem on the blue planeswalker just so that I could run it in my Atraxa, Praetors' Voice EDH deck.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
So I'm confused at the commander rules. Can both be commanders in the same deck? If so, can they both be in the same command zone? Or do you choose one to be your general and the other is shuffled in your deck?
With Partner you can have both as your Commander at the same time, and they would be in the command zone together.
It does make a difference and the excuse of sake of brevity is absurd when it comes to clarity.
You have to look from a new players perspective and not from our personal knowledge of the game. Its a new introduced mechanic which isnt explained properly through the reminder text. Its just seems lazy or a mistake.
(When this creature enters the battlefield, target player may search their library for Soulblade Corrupter and put it into their hand, then shuffle)
That is only ONE more word than what it is now... Search and And are added and from is removed
And my point is that the number of times a new player is going to encounter a spell or ability that cares about the difference between put and search is going to be... fairly low. I'd be extremely surprised if any such cards are in Battlebond, and before that the most recent was probably Aven Mindcensor? From a standard set that came out a year ago, and is a rare. And in those cases, there will be a readily available resource that will spell out the interaction right on the oracle page for each partner.
How would you read the reminder text as anything but search your library for this other card then shuffle? You might be confused about Aven Mindcensor effects but there's probably not a single one in the entire set, and it's only a sort of enfranchised player rules lawyer mindset ("I'm searching my deck for a card but it doesn't count as a search because it doesn't use that word!") that would even lead to being confused. What other reading of that reminder text is there?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Thinking about the art for this team, and the fact that their eyes glow on the Booster version of their arts; Could it be that this will be shown only on the foil version of these cards? And how would foils work for cards that always show up in tandem in boosters?
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
So, let me ask a simple question. How do you put something from your library into your hand. Would you not, you know, search for it?
The partner mechanic isn’t even confusing. This is one of those you types of problems.
This was covered extensively on pages 3 & 4. You do indeed search but wizards took it off for brevity, even though now people might miss certain triggers than happen from searching. I dont like it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Old MTGSalvation’s staff dared to dream so the community could live on. Support the new MTGNexus. Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
So, let me ask a simple question. How do you put something from your library into your hand. Would you not, you know, search for it?
The partner mechanic isn’t even confusing. This is one of those you types of problems.
This was covered extensively on pages 3 & 4. You do indeed search but wizards took it off for brevity, even though now people might miss certain triggers than happen from searching. I dont like it.
I’m fully aware. It’s not that confusing.
M:TG players, in my experience, are more than willing to tout or demonstarate their “superior” intellect. So, I find it very hard to believe that this is anything but griping about nothing. A little logic goes a long way.
So I guess Im being called stupid now because of sloppy reminder text? Nice
I find regenerate and banding to be logical and easy to understand but I guess everyone else is just stupid......? Real Nice
The point was there is no reason to omit the word. One more word to clarify any possible confusion that could happen.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the kind words
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
So I guess Im being called stupid now because of sloppy reminder text? Nice
I find regenerate and banding to be logical and easy to understand but I guess everyone else is just stupid......? Real Nice
The point was there is no reason to omit the word. One more word to clarify any possible confusion that could happen.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the kind words
Your words man, don’t pin that on anybody here.
Anyways, it’s not just a word, it’s an entire phrase. “Search your library for X and put it into your hand”. That’s a lot of text, unnecessary text I might add. You aren’t doing a functionally different action.
I mean, this is a game that has layers, this is a cake walk compared to understanding that atrocity.
So I guess Im being called stupid now because of sloppy reminder text? Nice
I find regenerate and banding to be logical and easy to understand but I guess everyone else is just stupid......? Real Nice
The point was there is no reason to omit the word. One more word to clarify any possible confusion that could happen.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the kind words
Your words man, don’t pin that on anybody here.
Anyways, it’s not just a word, it’s an entire phrase. “Search your library for X and put it into your hand”. That’s a lot of text, unnecessary text I might add. You aren’t doing a functionally different action.
I mean, this is a game that has layers, this is a cake walk compared to understanding that atrocity.
You obviously dont read previous posts
(When this creature enters the battlefield, target player may search their library for Soulblade Corrupter and put it into their hand, then shuffle)
That is only ONE more word than what it is now... Search and And are added and from is removed
You are the one that implied I wasnt using intellect. You are the one that implied its a you problem. You are the one that implied I cant use logic. So I do pin it on you
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
So I guess Im being called stupid now because of sloppy reminder text? Nice
I find regenerate and banding to be logical and easy to understand but I guess everyone else is just stupid......? Real Nice
The point was there is no reason to omit the word. One more word to clarify any possible confusion that could happen.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the kind words
Your words man, don’t pin that on anybody here.
Anyways, it’s not just a word, it’s an entire phrase. “Search your library for X and put it into your hand”. That’s a lot of text, unnecessary text I might add. You aren’t doing a functionally different action.
I mean, this is a game that has layers, this is a cake walk compared to understanding that atrocity.
You obviously dont read previous posts
(When this creature enters the battlefield, target player may search their library for Soulblade Corrupter and put it into their hand, then shuffle)
That is only ONE more word than what it is now... Search and And are added and from is removed
You are the one that implied I wasnt using intellect. You are the one that implied its a you problem. You are the one that implied I cant use logic. So I do pin it on you
I’m not going to get into a feces slinging match over something this ridiculous, but, I’d just like to straighten out a few things.
My initial comment wasn’t directed at any one particular individual. I mean, if you took offense to it, and if the shoe fits... but I sure as hell didn’t single anybody out.
Also, my point was that it isn’t just one word, it’s the entire phrase, which happens to have more overall characters. Which is my point about being too long, etc. Considering this doesn’t just appear on one card, you’d have to shoehorn the text depending on the rest of the cards abilities. So, what’s more logical, a functionally similar action word, or smaller, harder to read text that varies from card to card?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
And the original meaning of Partner is that they can both be your commander, which not only did they not write on the new cards, but they made a new definition and put it on non-legendaries that can't even be a commander. This will cause confusion, and we will have to explain it over and over.
And I can't wait until someone tries to reverse-logic the new functionality to the old Partner commanders - "Does that mean I can run a deck with every Partner in the 99 and when each comes into play, search for any other Partner?"
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
I look forward to fitting in one or both into a deck or two.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. The fact they have synergy with each other and make sense in a team setting with their target player stuff seems to say they are more fitting for 2HG. In what Commander game would you want to give an opponent a helpful emblem?
2. I was referring to your citing Maro with the Saheeli thing. For the Partners in this set adding Commander specific wording does nothing for them on a mechanical level, so they excluded it. The exception is the twins. They can’t be played as Commanders without the text. There is no hypocrisy here. The two are different cases.
3. There is a difference between you being confused and something being confusing. Everyone is not confused by the cards here. They’re very straight forward to myself and others. That keeps them from being confusing because it is not a trait it inherently possesses. That you find them confusing, or that you think somehow that upon hearing how they work players won’t get it in large enough numbers to matter, is irrelevant. Until the latter comes to pass speculation isn’t proof.
4. That you don’t care doesn’t mean others don’t, including Wizards. Battlebond isn’t ruined because two Mythic Rares refer to a format that has high overlap with 2HG. That’s part of why they went with Partner instead of a different mechanic in the end I’m sure. The Planeswalkers also, as I keep saying, fit in Battlebond more than Commander. The synergy between their +2 alone makes that obvious.
Some say Rowans +2 might not be all that great for it invites her to be attacked, or you or your teammate? It does say target player not opponent right? Just pick yourself or your teammante if you were going to attack anyway or you have no creatures on board to risk? Free +2 I say, and forcing your opponents hand in the combat phase can also be advantage to you as well.
And the leaving SEARCH out of the reminder text is dumb and confusing. Not everyone is looking up rules as they are playing and sometimes actually just go with the card text (especially if it has reminder text to supposedly remind you of the rule of the mechanic). Leaving that word out makes a big difference
You have to look from a new players perspective and not from our personal knowledge of the game. Its a new introduced mechanic which isnt explained properly through the reminder text. Its just seems lazy or a mistake.
(When this creature enters the battlefield, target player may search their library for Soulblade Corrupter and put it into their hand, then shuffle)
That is only ONE more word than what it is now... Search and And are added and from is removed
Commander: *Five Color Fun-Stuff *Grixis Artifacts *Beast Tribal
Brawl: To Be Decided At Eldraine Release!
This. The similarities of the mechanic names as well as the ambiguity of the reminder text will cause a lot of confusion. WoTC messed up on this one.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
With Partner you can have both as your Commander at the same time, and they would be in the command zone together.
• Call of Cthulhu CCG Servitor for the Netherlands!
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
https://twitter.com/GavinVerhey/status/998780024009338880
The partner mechanic isn’t even confusing. This is one of those you types of problems.
This was covered extensively on pages 3 & 4. You do indeed search but wizards took it off for brevity, even though now people might miss certain triggers than happen from searching. I dont like it.
Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
I’m fully aware. It’s not that confusing.
M:TG players, in my experience, are more than willing to tout or demonstarate their “superior” intellect. So, I find it very hard to believe that this is anything but griping about nothing. A little logic goes a long way.
I find regenerate and banding to be logical and easy to understand but I guess everyone else is just stupid......? Real Nice
The point was there is no reason to omit the word. One more word to clarify any possible confusion that could happen.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the kind words
Your words man, don’t pin that on anybody here.
Anyways, it’s not just a word, it’s an entire phrase. “Search your library for X and put it into your hand”. That’s a lot of text, unnecessary text I might add. You aren’t doing a functionally different action.
I mean, this is a game that has layers, this is a cake walk compared to understanding that atrocity.
You obviously dont read previous posts
(When this creature enters the battlefield, target player may search their library for Soulblade Corrupter and put it into their hand, then shuffle)
That is only ONE more word than what it is now... Search and And are added and from is removed
You are the one that implied I wasnt using intellect. You are the one that implied its a you problem. You are the one that implied I cant use logic. So I do pin it on you
I’m not going to get into a feces slinging match over something this ridiculous, but, I’d just like to straighten out a few things.
My initial comment wasn’t directed at any one particular individual. I mean, if you took offense to it, and if the shoe fits... but I sure as hell didn’t single anybody out.
Also, my point was that it isn’t just one word, it’s the entire phrase, which happens to have more overall characters. Which is my point about being too long, etc. Considering this doesn’t just appear on one card, you’d have to shoehorn the text depending on the rest of the cards abilities. So, what’s more logical, a functionally similar action word, or smaller, harder to read text that varies from card to card?