I'm personally very excited for 3 sets of ravnica. I've been waiting for this since the day the last ones rotated out of standard.
Also it's good new that all the partner legends work in edh and some people had guessed.
Well, confirmation that Buy-a-box promos will be unique cards like for Dominaria moving forward means I don't have to worry about playing Magic again any time soon, so that's a plus.
That's an odd "final straw" to break your back right there, though everyone's entitled to their breaking point (not that I like this promo thing either)
Wishing you well on your travels. Hope to see you again some day if wizards figures out how to make marketing gimmicks player-friendly... or decides to let the game speak for itself.
Apparently Wizards got the idea that people really like unique buy-a-box promos. Could this actually be true? I thought I remember a recent Blogatog post saying that they'd heard us "loud and clear", which I assumed meant they'd gotten a lot of heat for it...
If I had to guess, they heard us "loud and clear" and then the box sales numbers were probably bother louder and clearer
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
The continuation of unique promos is extremely disappointing. They havesaid that they view cards like nathalni dragon and arena as mistakes, they are aware of the toxic effect they have on competitive magic, and they know that they are unpopular with players. Maro specifically said he heard this message with Firesong and Sunspeaker. You'll notice the announcement is worded very politically and says nothing like "the players loved this," just that there was feedback. I suspect the real reason is that it was popular with LGSs and collectors. So it seems WOTC is willing to go back on their word when it helps these communities, even if it hurts the game, but not when it helps the game and hurts collectors, as with the reserved list.
Edit: a fewmoresources in which they clearly articulate a change of policy in which they do not produce functionally unique promos.
Well, confirmation that Buy-a-box promos will be unique cards like for Dominaria moving forward means I don't have to worry about playing Magic again any time soon, so that's a plus.
That's an odd "final straw" to break your back right there, though I everyone's entitled to their breaking point (not that I like this promo thing either)
Wishing you well on your travels. Hope to see you again some day if wizards figures out how to make marketing gimmicks player-friendly... or decides to let the game speak for itself.
To be fair, I quit a while back. Dominaria then turned out to be really, really good and made me want to come back, but I was waiting to see where they went from here.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
So we've got dual lands in Amonkhet, and we're heading to huge multicolored plane, does that mean we might see fetchlands in M19? They need SOMETHING to sell that set. And I really wanna crack some Scalding Tarns without needing to pay 40 bucks for a draft, or 70 bucks for a card.
Please don't let those two women host another video again. Ever.
This. Dear lord why would they think someone this grating would be enjoyable to listen to? I just skipped to the WOTC people and moved on from them.
Glad to see we're going back and hopefully we get the shocklands...because it's going to be a huge misfire otherwise.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Apparently Wizards got the idea that people really like unique buy-a-box promos. Could this actually be true? I thought I remember a recent Blogatog post saying that they'd heard us "loud and clear", which I assumed meant they'd gotten a lot of heat for it...
This. It was pretty clear from the reaction that people didn't like it. My assumption is that they ordered a certain number of them all at once so they already have them printed, and are just hoping we forget that we hate them.
Did I miss something? Was a buy-a-box promo announced?
It's very possible that the people the Dominaria BAB promo were meant for reacted positively to it ("it" being a way to sneak an extra Commander-focused legend into a card set). I don't think mtgsalvation's reaction is very indicative in these cases.
I don't get what more people were expecting though. It's announcement day, not spoiler day. They announced new products (and showed the sort of early preview art that usually goes with those announcements). Did people think they were going to go into detail about releases ahead of the spoiler week for those releases?
Also: Theros was a really popular set with a good draft environment (especially triple Theros, which was great) that sold well and generated some fun and powerful Standard decks. Mtgsalvation's weird hate-on for Theros is an outlier that rests on mtgs' typical weird narrative of "we're mad you didn't meet our extremely specific expectations built up by speculating on the rumor mill for weeks."
A lot of people hate Theros-era Standard but not because of Theros... it was sandwiched between Pack Rat and Siege Rhino.
Do you have any source for this apart from personal preference? BNG is regarded as one of the worst set ever, a lot of people *****ed and quit the game because of Thoughtseize, and triple Theros is practically universally agreed to be bad by drafters due to being decided by who operates their battlecruiser first thanks to the lack of efficient removal. Even it's dual lands are some of the worst ever. When a reprint of an older card is the only saving grace of the block, it's pretty clear that something has went horribly awry. Evenmoreso when said card dominated Standard until Khans hit the scene due to the block's weak power level, and newer players hated it.
Btw non CoCo khans was one of the most powerful and diverse standard environments we've had for a while until this banning debacle got solved.
I hope Ravnica won't get destroyed like the previous planes recently.
I can see a guild war between :
1) The gatewatch + 5 guilds.
2) Bolas and friends + the rest of the guilds.
The Izzet and Gruul are my favorite factions in the entirety of Magic along with the Temur and Mardu. The latter two no longer exist because of the storyline, so if they take my Ravnican guilds away as well, I will march on WotC headquarters with my fellow artificers, spellslingers, and warriors.
Also, worried they might kill Niv-Mizzet off. Bolas already has an affinity for using the creations of artificers and researchers for his designs. I could see him wanting to use Ral as a means to take control of the Izzet. That would mean a showdown with Sir Mizz-A-Lot himself. If this happens and they kill my favorite character in the entire Magic multiverse, forget marching...
Scorched...
...Earth.
That reminds me... I still need to get that custom playmat made where Niv-Mizzet is Cyclonic Rifting Bolas into oblivion. I sketched a preliminary example during Return to Ravnica block that I'll have to dig out of my vaults.
COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
So we've got dual lands in Amonkhet, and we're heading to huge multicolored plane, does that mean we might see fetchlands in M19? They need SOMETHING to sell that set. And I really wanna crack some Scalding Tarns without needing to pay 40 bucks for a draft, or 70 bucks for a card.
I strongly doubt they want a fetch-and-shock Standard. Assuming Shocks are back in Ravnica (seems likely), I would expect this means no Fetches for their lifetime in standard.
I do wonder if they'll consider a lower-powered fixing aid that works with shocks for standard though - like bringing back the original (and sub-rare) fetches (Bad River et al), or something akin to the Panorama cycle. Basically something that works at the speed of Evolving Wilds / Terramorphic Expanse (either entering tapped or making the land it fetches enter tapped), but specifically able to grab shocks.
So we've got dual lands in Amonkhet, and we're heading to huge multicolored plane, does that mean we might see fetchlands in M19?
VERY unlikely. Shock+Fetch turns standard into "the 60 best cards, colors be damned", and makes a very boring standard.
Check lands are also a thing and while not game breaking they combo very well with shock lands.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
3 sets of ravnica what a load of crapp... they should have made 2 sets of dominaria and 2 of ravnica then. 3 sets is to much to be fun. They will have another dragonsmaze dissaster. Aside from the collectable lands there is not much on ravnica for me. Thank god dominaria will still be in standard for a year.
Considering there's a possibility that the third set is about the Bolas invasion, and they're actively hyping the set up in the video, I wouldn't be so quick to assume it will be anything like Dragon's Maze.
Those two women need to stop it that, otherwise a Battalion will make them stop. If they don't, it will Evolve and make people Hellbent otherwise.
Anywho.
One thing that caught my eye was the way they are tying in the art to the season the sets are released. Should make for some colourful play...outside of the guild combinations of course. But three sets? Does that mean that they've let out all of their Ravnica fanaticism and it will be put to rest for a good period of time? If it's executed properly and not a rehash of Dragon's Maze, then we may see Ravnica post-Bolas or post-Gatewatch within teh next five to ten years.
Love the battlebond cards. That's a cool evolution of Partner and the search feature upon ETB is a good way to execute it. I just wish they would reveal expansion symbols along with the announcements too
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
So we've got dual lands in Amonkhet, and we're heading to huge multicolored plane, does that mean we might see fetchlands in M19? They need SOMETHING to sell that set. And I really wanna crack some Scalding Tarns without needing to pay 40 bucks for a draft, or 70 bucks for a card.
I wouldn't expect fetches back in Standard anytime soon, especially with fetchable duals in the format. I forget which article they said it, but design/development straight out said that having fetchable duals in KTK-BFZ Standard with fetches was an experiment that turned into a disaster with the meta being flooded with 4-color goodstuff decks.
Also, fetches sell Masters sets. So Wizards is not going to waste their reprinting in a garden variety Standard set.
And I must add, I understand Ravnica is popular, but their popularity also created stereotype/mold for each of the 2-color pie. For example, it took a while for developers to stray from the Boros = combat and Orzhov = life steal, but the damage was done.
3 sets of ravnica what a load of crapp... they should have made 2 sets of dominaria and 2 of ravnica then. 3 sets is to much to be fun. They will have another dragonsmaze dissaster. Aside from the collectable lands there is not much on ravnica for me. Thank god dominaria will still be in standard for a year.
Dragon's Maze was a disaster in large part because they tried to provide coverage to ten guilds in a small set (which in turn wound up providing one third of its draft environment). It was too much spread too thin. This unnamed Ravnica 3.3 will be a large set, drafted in triplicate in isolation, and from what they've said, will NOT be guild-focused.
I have a sneaking suspicion that by the end of 3.2, there won't be any guilds left to speak of on Ravnica at all.
So we've got dual lands in Amonkhet, and we're heading to huge multicolored plane, does that mean we might see fetchlands in M19?
VERY unlikely. Shock+Fetch turns standard into "the 60 best cards, colors be damned", and makes a very boring standard.
Check lands are also a thing and while not game breaking they combo very well with shock lands.
Sure, the main difference though is that with shocks and fetches in the same environment, every single fetch can get every single color of mana.
Sorry I meant that as to add on why I don't think we'll see fetchlands. We already have the checkalnds that already work pretty well with shocks, so with fetch lands it be bonkers.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I have a sneaking suspicion that by the end of 3.2, there won't be any guilds left to speak of on Ravnica at all.
Aren't the magically enforced guilds already a thing of the past? It seems pretty obvious that 3.3 will be bolas vs. ravnica, but the guild structure isn't something that will just disappear from Ravnican culture.
I have a sneaking suspicion that by the end of 3.2, there won't be any guilds left to speak of on Ravnica at all.
Aren't the magically enforced guilds already a thing of the past? It seems pretty obvious that 3.3 will be bolas vs. ravnica, but the guild structure isn't something that will just disappear from Ravnican culture.
The magical Guildpact dissolved for a time, but after RTR, they're magically enforced again. This time, it's through Jace as the Living Guildpact.
I'm glad they came back to Ravnica but i was hoping for two sets. Why Dominaria couldn't get at least two sets
It was going to but then they switched up how they did blocks again and it sadly had to give up its second set to the core set.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Given how monumentally pissed the enfranchised playerbase was at Battle for Zen losing the thematic focus of Zendikar proper? Breaking Ravnica seems like a colossally bad idea Wizards won't do.
We might get a plot based set where guilds don't matter, but I doubt guilds won't be a thing for Rav4.
After actually watching the video, I must say that I really dig what we got to see about the art direction. RtR already dialed back a bit on the "Eastern Europe" theme so I was a bit worried they would do that again in the next return set. Seeing one of the style guide captions say that Ravnica is supposed to be Magics version of medieval Prague was very nice. Focusing on a certain season is also neat, the concepts already look promising. Really looking forward to the art!
Regarding the third set, I think the guilds will take a big hit but somehow manage to survive. Maybe Bolas wins against the Planeswalker cast but doesn't demolish Ravnica entirely somehow.
Also it's good new that all the partner legends work in edh and some people had guessed.
That's an odd "final straw" to break your back right there, though everyone's entitled to their breaking point (not that I like this promo thing either)
Wishing you well on your travels. Hope to see you again some day if wizards figures out how to make marketing gimmicks player-friendly... or decides to let the game speak for itself.
If I had to guess, they heard us "loud and clear" and then the box sales numbers were probably bother louder and clearer
Edit: a few more sources in which they clearly articulate a change of policy in which they do not produce functionally unique promos.
To be fair, I quit a while back. Dominaria then turned out to be really, really good and made me want to come back, but I was waiting to see where they went from here.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
This. Dear lord why would they think someone this grating would be enjoyable to listen to? I just skipped to the WOTC people and moved on from them.
Glad to see we're going back and hopefully we get the shocklands...because it's going to be a huge misfire otherwise.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
This. It was pretty clear from the reaction that people didn't like it. My assumption is that they ordered a certain number of them all at once so they already have them printed, and are just hoping we forget that we hate them.
VERY unlikely. Shock+Fetch turns standard into "the 60 best cards, colors be damned", and makes a very boring standard.
Do you have any source for this apart from personal preference? BNG is regarded as one of the worst set ever, a lot of people *****ed and quit the game because of Thoughtseize, and triple Theros is practically universally agreed to be bad by drafters due to being decided by who operates their battlecruiser first thanks to the lack of efficient removal. Even it's dual lands are some of the worst ever. When a reprint of an older card is the only saving grace of the block, it's pretty clear that something has went horribly awry. Evenmoreso when said card dominated Standard until Khans hit the scene due to the block's weak power level, and newer players hated it.
Btw non CoCo khans was one of the most powerful and diverse standard environments we've had for a while until this banning debacle got solved.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
The Izzet and Gruul are my favorite factions in the entirety of Magic along with the Temur and Mardu. The latter two no longer exist because of the storyline, so if they take my Ravnican guilds away as well, I will march on WotC headquarters with my fellow artificers, spellslingers, and warriors.
Also, worried they might kill Niv-Mizzet off. Bolas already has an affinity for using the creations of artificers and researchers for his designs. I could see him wanting to use Ral as a means to take control of the Izzet. That would mean a showdown with Sir Mizz-A-Lot himself. If this happens and they kill my favorite character in the entire Magic multiverse, forget marching...
Scorched...
...Earth.
That reminds me... I still need to get that custom playmat made where Niv-Mizzet is Cyclonic Rifting Bolas into oblivion. I sketched a preliminary example during Return to Ravnica block that I'll have to dig out of my vaults.
I hate Bolas.
COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
I strongly doubt they want a fetch-and-shock Standard. Assuming Shocks are back in Ravnica (seems likely), I would expect this means no Fetches for their lifetime in standard.
I do wonder if they'll consider a lower-powered fixing aid that works with shocks for standard though - like bringing back the original (and sub-rare) fetches (Bad River et al), or something akin to the Panorama cycle. Basically something that works at the speed of Evolving Wilds / Terramorphic Expanse (either entering tapped or making the land it fetches enter tapped), but specifically able to grab shocks.
Check lands are also a thing and while not game breaking they combo very well with shock lands.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Considering there's a possibility that the third set is about the Bolas invasion, and they're actively hyping the set up in the video, I wouldn't be so quick to assume it will be anything like Dragon's Maze.
Anywho.
One thing that caught my eye was the way they are tying in the art to the season the sets are released. Should make for some colourful play...outside of the guild combinations of course. But three sets? Does that mean that they've let out all of their Ravnica fanaticism and it will be put to rest for a good period of time? If it's executed properly and not a rehash of Dragon's Maze, then we may see Ravnica post-Bolas or post-Gatewatch within teh next five to ten years.
Love the battlebond cards. That's a cool evolution of Partner and the search feature upon ETB is a good way to execute it. I just wish they would reveal expansion symbols along with the announcements too
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I wouldn't expect fetches back in Standard anytime soon, especially with fetchable duals in the format. I forget which article they said it, but design/development straight out said that having fetchable duals in KTK-BFZ Standard with fetches was an experiment that turned into a disaster with the meta being flooded with 4-color goodstuff decks.
Also, fetches sell Masters sets. So Wizards is not going to waste their reprinting in a garden variety Standard set.
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Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
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Hallar
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Sure, the main difference though is that with shocks and fetches in the same environment, every single fetch can get every single color of mana.
Dragon's Maze was a disaster in large part because they tried to provide coverage to ten guilds in a small set (which in turn wound up providing one third of its draft environment). It was too much spread too thin. This unnamed Ravnica 3.3 will be a large set, drafted in triplicate in isolation, and from what they've said, will NOT be guild-focused.
I have a sneaking suspicion that by the end of 3.2, there won't be any guilds left to speak of on Ravnica at all.
Sorry I meant that as to add on why I don't think we'll see fetchlands. We already have the checkalnds that already work pretty well with shocks, so with fetch lands it be bonkers.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Aren't the magically enforced guilds already a thing of the past? It seems pretty obvious that 3.3 will be bolas vs. ravnica, but the guild structure isn't something that will just disappear from Ravnican culture.
The magical Guildpact dissolved for a time, but after RTR, they're magically enforced again. This time, it's through Jace as the Living Guildpact.
It was going to but then they switched up how they did blocks again and it sadly had to give up its second set to the core set.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
We might get a plot based set where guilds don't matter, but I doubt guilds won't be a thing for Rav4.
Regarding the third set, I think the guilds will take a big hit but somehow manage to survive. Maybe Bolas wins against the Planeswalker cast but doesn't demolish Ravnica entirely somehow.