Overall, pretty neat. I'm a little disappointed that I really can't see a Saproling/Thallid deck emerging from what's in the set.
This. Most disappointingly, the absence of a 1-drop for fungi.dec is quite saddening. Something like Thallid, Tukatongue Thallid, or Utopia Mycon would have been real nice.
The only green 1-drop creature is Llanowar Elves. I really like really-low-curve green to be a thing, but they keep on pushing away from that.
Overall the artwork quality in this set is a very mixed bag for me. Some of them are quite stunning like most of the sagas.
Others (for example Blessing of Belzenlok) are imo among the worst magic artworks we've seen in years. Odd.
Same here. DOM has a lot of great art, but I also think they made the plane look too generic and even boring at points. They said Time Spiral had too little variance in the art (as far as I know), but here they are making almost every white card Benalian because of "stained glass is so beautiful" (I like stained glass just as much as the next guy, but they did go a bit overboard with the aesthetic). Speaking of New Benalia: Apparently the castle town (towns?) visible on the Jonas de Ro plains, for example, are what the nation is made out of on the large scale. Why go for such a boring depiction when you have a card in Time Spiral called ... New Benalia with awesome-looking stained-glass-domed cities within the ground?
Overall, pretty neat. I'm a little disappointed that I really can't see a Saproling/Thallid deck emerging from what's in the set.
Hahaha, is that sarcasm? Or are you speaking specifically to a particular format? I think the prevalence of the theme at common and uncommon with actually useful cards could make it a potential G/b draft archetype. If nothing else, Slimefoot and their thallid buds will inspire EDH decks without question, with the DOM offerings for the theme giving those decks a lot of framework to build off of.
What makes you think the Saproling theme won't make a splash?
Oh yeah, for sure in draft. I guess I'm just having trouble seeing an actual Saproling / Thallid tribe deck for constructed. Though I should probably also temper my expectations since it's rare for a tribal deck to be super competitive.
Edit: I was hoping for something similar to original Thallids. Something to make a stream of tokens that isn't a 7 drop.
Edit #2: I actually really do like Slimefoot conceptually. I was excited to see that ... it? ... was a member of the Weatherlight crew. Even kinda made me want to make a myconid character in Pathfinder or D&D.
Yeah his ult is 'you win the game' unless they are stomping you and have a mass of tokens or something.
Hes good.
Actually, no, his ultimate doesn't win you the game at all. You win the game by getting your opponent's life total down to 0 or making him draw all his cards. Teferi does none of those things, and that's why he's not a good control planeswalker. A control planeswalker needs to win you the game in order to be good. Just look up every control planeswalker that was ever succesful and every control planeswalker that was not and this will become very clear.
Teferi will be a failure just like Dovin Baan and Narset, unfortunately, because I have been longing for a good blue/white planeswalker for a long time.
Jace, Architect of Thought didn't win you the game, and he was necessary in Control in Return to Ravnica Standard.
Narset was a failure because she had no removal options, and it was easy to whiff with her. Dovin failed because he only stopped one thing that was already on the board from fatally hitting him, and only drew you a card with some life gain with his minus.
Teferi's +1 draws and untaps two lands to provide some avenue for counter backup, and his -3 removes a threat presumably long enough to keep it from killing him or you.
I can't say with 100% certainty if he'll succeed in Standard, but at least I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself.
Overall, pretty neat. I'm a little disappointed that I really can't see a Saproling/Thallid deck emerging from what's in the set.
This. Most disappointingly, the absence of a 1-drop for fungi.dec is quite saddening. Something like Thallid, Tukatongue Thallid, or Utopia Mycon would have been real nice.
The only green 1-drop creature is Llanowar Elves. I really like really-low-curve green to be a thing, but they keep on pushing away from that.
My only disappointment right now is that there turns out to be no actual cycle of wedge legends (granted that Jodah is technically five-color...). But I did see four cards that have a shot at entering my Commander Rashmi chart--Broken Bond, Territorial Allosaurus, Precognition Field, and Tatyova, Benthic Druid. (It's EtB-based, using recasting as the main mechanism.) So I can't say I'm upset about the set.
If you dominate the resource game, Control (especially in standard with no instant combo) should always win, no?
Yes.
No. Aggro and combo deserve to win, too. And personally, the game needs to have answers against control that don't entail playing more control. Non-control decks have a right to protect their resources from control decks just as control decks have a right to stop their faces from getting smashed in. And every time a control player sulks because an aggro player beat them with a fatty or a combo player comboed off before they could take away all their resources, they should realize that's exactly how it feels to lose the game because your opponent took away your lands, creatures, combo cards, etc.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
If you dominate the resource game, Control (especially in standard with no instant combo) should always win, no?
Yes.
No. Aggro and combo deserve to win, too. And personally, the game needs to have answers against control that don't entail playing more control. Non-control decks have a right to protect their resources from control decks just as control decks have a right to stop their faces from getting smashed in. And every time a control player sulks because an aggro player beat them with a fatty or a combo player comboed off before they could take away all their resources, they should realize that's exactly how it feels to lose the game because your opponent took away your lands, creatures, combo cards, etc.
I think you're misreading those statements. If you dominate the resource game, Control should win because that's what control does. That doesn't mean Control should always win, period. It doesn't mean it should be easy to dominate the resource game.
Overall, pretty neat. I'm a little disappointed that I really can't see a Saproling/Thallid deck emerging from what's in the set.
This. Most disappointingly, the absence of a 1-drop for fungi.dec is quite saddening. Something like Thallid, Tukatongue Thallid, or Utopia Mycon would have been real nice.
The only green 1-drop creature is Llanowar Elves. I really like really-low-curve green to be a thing, but they keep on pushing away from that.
It needs a target to be cast though. If your opponent plays no creature on their first turn you can’t cast Fungal Infection. The same old problem as Beckon Apparition - it only works as a T1 play on the condition that the opponent sets the table for you just right.
Broken Bond might just be one of the most heartbreaking cards I've ever seen. Honestly, I'm not pleased that the Gatewatch didn't even get a chance to properly stabilize. They got one official client who ended up becoming an opponent, then off to Amonkhet they went to fight Bolas, and now the team's already broken up. I guess I shouldn't be so disappointed seeing as this isn't some TV series with a villain of the week, but it kills the magnitude of the Gatewatch's founding. Makes the entire thing seem like a false start. I guess the Gatewatch haters are getting what they want after all.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I love this set. The power level seems above average. Not too creep and not underpowered. The uncommons themselves are amazing which makes it better for everyone. There may be only a few high dollar cards but thats ok. There might only be a few powerful enough cards to slot into eternal formats and thats ok as well. In fact it just realistic. To usurp some of th entrenched uber powerful cards that are available from the last 15 or 25 years is just really really hard to print. Thats just the reality and nothing more should be expected. As someone mentioned before, it will only get harder the more sets printed because once some of those slots are established its nigh impossible to out do them without being strictly better or broken. The only way new cards will shine in eternal formats will be in new deck archeotypes that may take some time to develop and then we all say, dang how did we miss that card, but in terms of tournament constructed the net decks win out and the cards are established until some creative people take the risk of removing the slotted cards for their own take and make it work.
Overall the set drips with flavor, has some power, has some good tribal possibilities and will be good for standard and edh.
My major gripe is echoed in why Thallid or some other one drop wasnt printed, that just doesnt make sense. In the meantime Ill be happy to pull some pretty legend uncommon foils that are playable.
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
I can't wait to draft this and take things for EDH, and things for casual, and maybe play FNM again. Seriously a lot to take from this set and I couldn't be happier. (Okay maybe if they revived akroma and she was the deus ex machina to defeating nicol bolas but that's a minor stretch.)
Something about it makes it feel like there's another half of the set coming up. Note, not that it feels lacking, just that it seems like its setting up a foundation for something more. That could just be the nature of them trying to satisfy as many nostalgiappetites as possible tho.
Overall, pretty neat. I'm a little disappointed that I really can't see a Saproling/Thallid deck emerging from what's in the set.
Hahaha, is that sarcasm? Or are you speaking specifically to a particular format? I think the prevalence of the theme at common and uncommon with actually useful cards could make it a potential G/b draft archetype. If nothing else, Slimefoot and their thallid buds will inspire EDH decks without question, with the DOM offerings for the theme giving those decks a lot of framework to build off of.
What makes you think the Saproling theme won't make a splash?
Oh yeah, for sure in draft. I guess I'm just having trouble seeing an actual Saproling / Thallid tribe deck for constructed. Though I should probably also temper my expectations since it's rare for a tribal deck to be super competitive.
Oh that's totally fair. I don't know that I see a deck like that taking traditional competitive environments by storm, either.
Edit: I was hoping for something similar to original Thallids. Something to make a stream of tokens that isn't a 7 drop.
Tendershoot Dryad probably isn't going to make a splash or make this deck competitive, but I think it's a fair supplier of Saprolings. More vulnerable than Verdant Force, but cheaper and provides a big boost for the swarm rather quickly. Perhaps Gwb with Annointed Procession? I doubt that's enough to really make it in T2, but casual constructed is probably all over it.
Edit #2: I actually really do like Slimefoot conceptually. I was excited to see that ... it? ... was a member of the Weatherlight crew. Even kinda made me want to make a myconid character in Pathfinder or D&D.
It's fun, I enjoy the character design. Its card is good times.
Overall, pretty neat. I'm a little disappointed that I really can't see a Saproling/Thallid deck emerging from what's in the set.
Hahaha, is that sarcasm? Or are you speaking specifically to a particular format? I think the prevalence of the theme at common and uncommon with actually useful cards could make it a potential G/b draft archetype. If nothing else, Slimefoot and their thallid buds will inspire EDH decks without question, with the DOM offerings for the theme giving those decks a lot of framework to build off of.
What makes you think the Saproling theme won't make a splash?
Oh yeah, for sure in draft. I guess I'm just having trouble seeing an actual Saproling / Thallid tribe deck for constructed. Though I should probably also temper my expectations since it's rare for a tribal deck to be super competitive.
Oh that's totally fair. I don't know that I see a deck like that taking traditional competitive environments by storm, either.
Edit: I was hoping for something similar to original Thallids. Something to make a stream of tokens that isn't a 7 drop.
Tendershoot Dryad probably isn't going to make a splash or make this deck competitive, but I think it's a fair supplier of Saprolings. More vulnerable than Verdant Force, but cheaper and provides a big boost for the swarm rather quickly. Perhaps Gwb with Annointed Procession? I doubt that's enough to really make it in T2, but casual constructed is probably all over it.
Edit #2: I actually really do like Slimefoot conceptually. I was excited to see that ... it? ... was a member of the Weatherlight crew. Even kinda made me want to make a myconid character in Pathfinder or D&D.
It's fun, I enjoy the character design. Its card is good times.
TBH I forgot all about the Dryad. Definitely vulnernable, but interesting. I'm thinking Brawl might also be a place for saproling shenanigans.
Edit: I also have to wonder if we may get Thallids in the new Core set since they have the leeway to do a lot of reprints. I'd definitely love to play a half decent Thallid deck with Slimefoot and the new lord.
TBH I forgot all about the Dryad. Definitely vulnernable, but interesting. I'm thinking Brawl might also be a place for saproling shenanigans.
Edit: I also have to wonder if we may get Thallids in the new Core set since they have the leeway to do a lot of reprints. I'd definitely love to play a half decent Thallid deck with Slimefoot and the new lord.
I think they'll be pushing Brawl and seeding sets with necessary tools and supports. Saprolings are a common recurring theme, I'd be shocked if we didn't see supports for a potential Slimefoot Brawl deck in the new Core set. Even a Dreampod Druid, Tukatongue Thallid, Jade Mage or Sprout reprint may help. None of them are powerhouses on their own, but in the context of a Brawl deck for Slimefoot, they could be support. The Druid, in particular, is interesting in light of the RW Dominaria theme of Auras (and Equipment) and the speculated return to Theros in the fall.
I have to say this is a beautifully designed set and it is so much more nostalgic or even iconic than the Masters 25 set which looked like it was thrown together haphazardly by a bunch of drunken employees.
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No. Aggro and combo deserve to win, too. And personally, the game needs to have answers against control that don't entail playing more control. Non-control decks have a right to protect their resources from control decks just as control decks have a right to stop their faces from getting smashed in. And every time a control player sulks because an aggro player beat them with a fatty or a combo player comboed off before they could take away all their resources, they should realize that's exactly how it feels to lose the game because your opponent took away your lands, creatures, combo cards, etc.
I think you're misreading those statements. If you dominate the resource game, Control should win because that's what control does. That doesn't mean Control should always win, period. It doesn't mean it should be easy to dominate the resource game.
Exactly. Let me clarify my earlier laconic response. I didn't say anything about an archetype *deserving* to win, only that a hypothetical blue/white control deck featuring Teferi which has managed to control its opponent's resources with spells like Slaughter the Strong (which typically leaves your opponent with only 1 or 2 creatures) or Fumigate is probably going to win, especially once the planeswalker starting ticking up its loyalty with countermagic backup. This particular ultimate, once you get there, significantly and quickly decreases your opponent's probability of winning to the point where they might as well concede--it was already over once you bounced their board but when you also start exiling their lands they can't even recast the resources they lost.
Except for Approach decks here and there, aggro and midrange have been running all over Standard since SOI/EMN rotated out. DOM finally gives control players the chance to make a comeback, if you are in to that sort of thing.
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This. Most disappointingly, the absence of a 1-drop for fungi.dec is quite saddening. Something like Thallid, Tukatongue Thallid, or Utopia Mycon would have been real nice.
The only green 1-drop creature is Llanowar Elves. I really like really-low-curve green to be a thing, but they keep on pushing away from that.
Same here. DOM has a lot of great art, but I also think they made the plane look too generic and even boring at points. They said Time Spiral had too little variance in the art (as far as I know), but here they are making almost every white card Benalian because of "stained glass is so beautiful" (I like stained glass just as much as the next guy, but they did go a bit overboard with the aesthetic). Speaking of New Benalia: Apparently the castle town (towns?) visible on the Jonas de Ro plains, for example, are what the nation is made out of on the large scale. Why go for such a boring depiction when you have a card in Time Spiral called ... New Benalia with awesome-looking stained-glass-domed cities within the ground?
Oh yeah, for sure in draft. I guess I'm just having trouble seeing an actual Saproling / Thallid tribe deck for constructed. Though I should probably also temper my expectations since it's rare for a tribal deck to be super competitive.
Edit: I was hoping for something similar to original Thallids. Something to make a stream of tokens that isn't a 7 drop.
Edit #2: I actually really do like Slimefoot conceptually. I was excited to see that ... it? ... was a member of the Weatherlight crew. Even kinda made me want to make a myconid character in Pathfinder or D&D.
Jace, Architect of Thought didn't win you the game, and he was necessary in Control in Return to Ravnica Standard.
Narset was a failure because she had no removal options, and it was easy to whiff with her. Dovin failed because he only stopped one thing that was already on the board from fatally hitting him, and only drew you a card with some life gain with his minus.
Teferi's +1 draws and untaps two lands to provide some avenue for counter backup, and his -3 removes a threat presumably long enough to keep it from killing him or you.
I can't say with 100% certainty if he'll succeed in Standard, but at least I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself.
Or make it green and reprint Tukatongue Thallid.
No. Aggro and combo deserve to win, too. And personally, the game needs to have answers against control that don't entail playing more control. Non-control decks have a right to protect their resources from control decks just as control decks have a right to stop their faces from getting smashed in. And every time a control player sulks because an aggro player beat them with a fatty or a combo player comboed off before they could take away all their resources, they should realize that's exactly how it feels to lose the game because your opponent took away your lands, creatures, combo cards, etc.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
It needs a target to be cast though. If your opponent plays no creature on their first turn you can’t cast Fungal Infection. The same old problem as Beckon Apparition - it only works as a T1 play on the condition that the opponent sets the table for you just right.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Overall the set drips with flavor, has some power, has some good tribal possibilities and will be good for standard and edh.
My major gripe is echoed in why Thallid or some other one drop wasnt printed, that just doesnt make sense. In the meantime Ill be happy to pull some pretty legend uncommon foils that are playable.
Just more racism in WotC, nothing new. Also its not like they would do lizard tribal the same way that they did orochi as snake tribal
Something about it makes it feel like there's another half of the set coming up. Note, not that it feels lacking, just that it seems like its setting up a foundation for something more. That could just be the nature of them trying to satisfy as many nostalgiappetites as possible tho.
Agreed. White and green got a few above average cards. The gravetide is the only card I got excited about. The rest is edh poo.
Oh that's totally fair. I don't know that I see a deck like that taking traditional competitive environments by storm, either.
Tendershoot Dryad probably isn't going to make a splash or make this deck competitive, but I think it's a fair supplier of Saprolings. More vulnerable than Verdant Force, but cheaper and provides a big boost for the swarm rather quickly. Perhaps Gwb with Annointed Procession? I doubt that's enough to really make it in T2, but casual constructed is probably all over it.
It's fun, I enjoy the character design. Its card is good times.
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Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
TBH I forgot all about the Dryad. Definitely vulnernable, but interesting. I'm thinking Brawl might also be a place for saproling shenanigans.
Edit: I also have to wonder if we may get Thallids in the new Core set since they have the leeway to do a lot of reprints. I'd definitely love to play a half decent Thallid deck with Slimefoot and the new lord.
I think they'll be pushing Brawl and seeding sets with necessary tools and supports. Saprolings are a common recurring theme, I'd be shocked if we didn't see supports for a potential Slimefoot Brawl deck in the new Core set. Even a Dreampod Druid, Tukatongue Thallid, Jade Mage or Sprout reprint may help. None of them are powerhouses on their own, but in the context of a Brawl deck for Slimefoot, they could be support. The Druid, in particular, is interesting in light of the RW Dominaria theme of Auras (and Equipment) and the speculated return to Theros in the fall.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
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oh wow ya that guy, would've been an awesome reprint
He'll probably show up in coreset on RtRtR
Exactly. Let me clarify my earlier laconic response. I didn't say anything about an archetype *deserving* to win, only that a hypothetical blue/white control deck featuring Teferi which has managed to control its opponent's resources with spells like Slaughter the Strong (which typically leaves your opponent with only 1 or 2 creatures) or Fumigate is probably going to win, especially once the planeswalker starting ticking up its loyalty with countermagic backup. This particular ultimate, once you get there, significantly and quickly decreases your opponent's probability of winning to the point where they might as well concede--it was already over once you bounced their board but when you also start exiling their lands they can't even recast the resources they lost.
Except for Approach decks here and there, aggro and midrange have been running all over Standard since SOI/EMN rotated out. DOM finally gives control players the chance to make a comeback, if you are in to that sort of thing.