I sincerelly didn't think they'd fully release Arena before the fall rotation but it looks like they're serious about implementing KLD and AKH blocks, and later SOI block to push a new format.
How much better or worse do you think this possible new format would be compared to Frontier?
Actually I like the idea of a format without godly mana. No fetches makes game flow faster. I guess that's fine. They can't go back to older set as fast and this could be enough fix for a while till they can bring older sets to the fold.
I'm not sure how much I'd read into this bit of code, but I do think this format sounds better than Frontier. The fetch + BFZ dual manabase makes it so that you are barely, if at all, rewarded for going fewer colors than somethink like three and a half, and the BFZ duals being half a cycle made some color combinations more viable than others. I strongly disliked that every time I tried to brew something up for Frontier.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Do cards older than SOI exist in a (non-bugged) state in Arena? This could easily be a temporary holder format until those cards exist.
Only AHK and IXL blocks are in Arena as of now. The inclusion of SOI block specifically seems to me more purposeful than stand-in to me at least and it kinda supports the theory/fact that the new 2-block Standard design was meant to start at SOI and BFZ was just executive meddling.
I wouldn't read too much into the current sets listed there, they obviously haven't implemented many sets back yet.
What's way more exciting is that they at least internally to the application have a modular JSON configuration to represent an MTG format. That means that this isn't hardcoded and they can potentially introduce a new format (in terms of set and banlist support, if not new mechanics like the command zone, etc) without needing to write additional code.
Arena seems like the perfect platform to try out new things wrt to formats. I'd also love it if they eventually exposed some of this capability and allowed players to set up custom formats and/or tournaments in Arena within whatever constraints they wished to impose. This type of open play with some structure provided by Arena could only help boost player engagement.
well it is in beta, so you can expect resets like that, just like everyone will likely have their collections wiped upon actual release to prevent given testers a massive advantage.
Logically, this makes sense. Cards are going to rotate out of standard eventually, and the cards from old sets will still be in collections and programmed into the game. It would be super weird to prevent players from using those cards outright, but implementing a format as large as modern proper would be a tall task.
Hope they make it a Braw-Modern Format. That, i could get behind. If they are trying to force a new extended format i better stay on MTO where i can at least buy singles.
God damnit this was my biggest concern
I was really excited for a new format, but I did not want it to include Kaladesh
I HATE ENERGY
Oh I hear ya, but since energy is a parasitic mechanic, these decks will not get new cards regularly, which will inevitably make them obsolete at some point.
I am super stoked for UB control now that we're getting a great 2CMC kill spell to go with Push, and I'll probably make sure I get me some Scarab Gods and Torrential Gearhulks when they rotate.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I said this over in the other products thread, but they literally can't create modern or legacy with that game. MTGO already has some trouble with certain decks that combo off or do a lot of complex interactions at once. Arena would just fall over and die trying to deal with dredge or a super big stack of various triggers. I'm sure they may fix this later, but until that point I think that there's just a lot of old files sitting around leftover from development that may still need cleaning up.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I said this over in the other products thread, but they literally can't create modern or legacy with that game. MTGO already has some trouble with certain decks that combo off or do a lot of complex interactions at once. Arena would just fall over and die trying to deal with dredge or a super big stack of various triggers. I'm sure they may fix this later, but until that point I think that there's just a lot of old files sitting around leftover from development that may still need cleaning up.
This plus the steadily increasing busted-ness of Modern has me convinced that some kind of "Post-Modern" format isn't as much an "if" as it is a "when" and "how".
My bet was on Origins, you know, cause it's a very flavourful starting point, but I'd be very happy to skip the Eldrazi-plagued garbage fire that was the BFZ-OGW block. It's also kind of clumsy to not sync it to the M15 frame change, but that's a minor detail.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I said this over in the other products thread, but they literally can't create modern or legacy with that game. MTGO already has some trouble with certain decks that combo off or do a lot of complex interactions at once. Arena would just fall over and die trying to deal with dredge or a super big stack of various triggers. I'm sure they may fix this later, but until that point I think that there's just a lot of old files sitting around leftover from development that may still need cleaning up.
This plus the steadily increasing busted-ness of Modern has me convinced that some kind of "Post-Modern" format isn't as much an "if" as it is a "when" and "how".
My bet was on Origins, you know, cause it's a very flavourful starting point, but I'd be very happy to skip the Eldrazi-plagued garbage fire that was the BFZ-OGW block. It's also kind of clumsy to not sync it to the M15 frame change, but that's a minor detail.
It would match up with the company goals to move to a new competitive format to push the game. Right now it feels like there's so much information to take in from different places that trying to build a cohesive story as to what is going on with the company and game is a headache. What I know is that there is a big disconnect between the aging players and the company due to the company wanting to focus their attention on bringing eager 12-18 year old players into the game.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I said this over in the other products thread, but they literally can't create modern or legacy with that game. MTGO already has some trouble with certain decks that combo off or do a lot of complex interactions at once. Arena would just fall over and die trying to deal with dredge or a super big stack of various triggers. I'm sure they may fix this later, but until that point I think that there's just a lot of old files sitting around leftover from development that may still need cleaning up.
Interesting how you reached this conclusion.
So far, we know that arena runs a rules engine, that allows new or old cards to be 'plug and play', quite different from mtgo where everything has to be coded as its own unique rules entity.
So from their description, it seems they've effectively future-proofed the engine to effortlessly run cards from alpha into the distant future.
And now they've implemented proper timings, priority on abilities/spells and stops on phases etc I see no reason why arena couldn't support modern.
Remember arena is currently (in its beta phase) just a tech demo for a powerful game engine and its the engine that we care about. What gave you the idea that the engine couldn't handle modern?
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I believe Arena can handle quite a few triggers on the stack. A few weeks ago I was playing against a Dino deck that had 3X Forerunner of the Empire on the battlefield and then slammed a Polyraptor. It took some minutes to get all those triggers sorted out, but when it was done, the opponent had 95 copies + the original. Opponent attacked with all, but AI decided it has seen enough and autoended the game when I was at -22 life
A non-standard format where color costs actually matter, and you need more thought than "just run 13 fetches and 4 duals and a couple basics"? Yes please.
Modern and Legacy have had fetch/dual forever, and it makes color costs nearly trivial. Bolt, into Grim Flayer, into Liliana, into Bloodbraid? Easy! Does your deck want to cast Delver or Bolt or Deathrite on turn 1 and then follow that up with Abrupt Decay while having Daze for their follow up? No problem!
Beyond the trivial perfect mana for every 3 color deck is the time saved a format like this would offer. My turn, play a fetch, go. Your turn, play a fetch go... WAIT! I have to search, then shuffle, then you cut. My turn, fetch 2, search, shuffle, present, cast something... IN RESPONSE! You crack fetch, shuffle, present... over and over, game after game, round after round.
Honestly no-fetch/dual is one of the more appealing aspects of a format like this.
A non-standard format where color costs actually matter, and you need more thought than "just run 13 fetches and 4 duals and a couple basics"? Yes please.
Modern and Legacy have had fetch/dual forever, and it makes color costs nearly trivial. Bolt, into Grim Flayer, into Liliana, into Bloodbraid? Easy! Does your deck want to cast Delver or Bolt or Deathrite on turn 1 and then follow that up with Abrupt Decay while having Daze for their follow up? No problem!
Beyond the trivial perfect mana for every 3 color deck is the time saved a format like this would offer. My turn, play a fetch, go. Your turn, play a fetch go... WAIT! I have to search, then shuffle, then you cut. My turn, fetch 2, search, shuffle, present, cast something... IN RESPONSE! You crack fetch, shuffle, present... over and over, game after game, round after round.
Honestly no-fetch/dual is one of the more appealing aspects of a format like this.
This all the way, plus the fact that it´s going to be a lot less busted than Modern. I´ve been big on Modern for a lot of years, but I´m kind of tired of the insane power level, where too many games are won and lost on mulligans and unlucky pairings. That´s why I´ve moved over to draft for the last year, it just feels like it has more play to it. I´d play Standard if it was better than it is. I really love the idea of Standard and the power level, and I´ve had a lot of fun with it in the past, but recently it has had too many problems.
This proposed format looks perfect for me, and I absolutely think that it looks better than Frontier, if not for anything else then at least because of the lack of fetches and BFZ duals. I really hope that it will become a thing. And I´m pretty optimistic, because look what I found:
Q. What happens when my cards rotate out of Standard?
A. We want you to have ways to continue to play with your cards once they rotate out of Standard. We'll talk more about this later in the year.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
If this is a format, it is a COMPLETE FAIL on wotcs part. They random DON'T include BFV+OGW for what reason? I can understand, according to Maro's post, about not including KTR Block and M15, but not including Origins is the opposite of what he was originally trying to do. Origins forward makes PERFECT sense, and that should be a fine format.
If this is a format, it is a COMPLETE FAIL on wotcs part. They random DON'T include BFV+OGW for what reason? I can understand, according to Maro's post, about not including KTR Block and M15, but not including Origins is the opposite of what he was originally trying to do. Origins forward makes PERFECT sense, and that should be a fine format.
I guess it´s simply my opinion vs. yours, but personally I think that not having Thought-Knot Seer, Reality Smasher and Ulamog automatically makes any format better. I don´t understand how it can possibly be a "COMPLETE FAIL" though, as if the format is terrible and unplayable, but that block would totally save it somehow. If by "COMPLETE FAIL" you mean that it "kinda sucks" or "is an odd decision", then sure.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I said this over in the other products thread, but they literally can't create modern or legacy with that game. MTGO already has some trouble with certain decks that combo off or do a lot of complex interactions at once. Arena would just fall over and die trying to deal with dredge or a super big stack of various triggers. I'm sure they may fix this later, but until that point I think that there's just a lot of old files sitting around leftover from development that may still need cleaning up.
Interesting how you reached this conclusion.
So far, we know that arena runs a rules engine, that allows new or old cards to be 'plug and play', quite different from mtgo where everything has to be coded as its own unique rules entity.
So from their description, it seems they've effectively future-proofed the engine to effortlessly run cards from alpha into the distant future.
And now they've implemented proper timings, priority on abilities/spells and stops on phases etc I see no reason why arena couldn't support modern.
Remember arena is currently (in its beta phase) just a tech demo for a powerful game engine and its the engine that we care about. What gave you the idea that the engine couldn't handle modern?
It's not the engine. The problem is our good old friend connection timeout. Don't take the statement I made as if it can never happen, just that right now it can't as of the beta. That and the system for acquiring cards means people that want to play modern are going to be loot box purchasing for ages before they get the library to do anything. I don't even think modern players like drafting or limited, so there is the added value tossed out the window.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I said this over in the other products thread, but they literally can't create modern or legacy with that game. MTGO already has some trouble with certain decks that combo off or do a lot of complex interactions at once. Arena would just fall over and die trying to deal with dredge or a super big stack of various triggers. I'm sure they may fix this later, but until that point I think that there's just a lot of old files sitting around leftover from development that may still need cleaning up.
Interesting how you reached this conclusion.
So far, we know that arena runs a rules engine, that allows new or old cards to be 'plug and play', quite different from mtgo where everything has to be coded as its own unique rules entity.
So from their description, it seems they've effectively future-proofed the engine to effortlessly run cards from alpha into the distant future.
And now they've implemented proper timings, priority on abilities/spells and stops on phases etc I see no reason why arena couldn't support modern.
Remember arena is currently (in its beta phase) just a tech demo for a powerful game engine and its the engine that we care about. What gave you the idea that the engine couldn't handle modern?
It's not the engine. The problem is our good old friend connection timeout. Don't take the statement I made as if it can never happen, just that right now it can't as of the beta. That and the system for acquiring cards means people that want to play modern are going to be loot box purchasing for ages before they get the library to do anything. I don't even think modern players like drafting or limited, so there is the added value tossed out the window.
those are all superficial details that can change on-the-fly over the course of a beta testing period. the main consideration is whether or not the engine and actual nuts n' bolts behind the frilly surface can handle formats like modern.
your comment was that the game "literally can't" run modern because of "complex interaction" so don't start backpedalling on economy or whatever.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
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So some people found this in a MTGArena .log
I sincerelly didn't think they'd fully release Arena before the fall rotation but it looks like they're serious about implementing KLD and AKH blocks, and later SOI block to push a new format.
How much better or worse do you think this possible new format would be compared to Frontier?
No fetch? No shocks? No thanks. If it doesnt go back to at least Khan's, I wouldn't be interested in even trying it.
Hopefully they implement Modern fully one day.
Spirits
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
What's way more exciting is that they at least internally to the application have a modular JSON configuration to represent an MTG format. That means that this isn't hardcoded and they can potentially introduce a new format (in terms of set and banlist support, if not new mechanics like the command zone, etc) without needing to write additional code.
Arena seems like the perfect platform to try out new things wrt to formats. I'd also love it if they eventually exposed some of this capability and allowed players to set up custom formats and/or tournaments in Arena within whatever constraints they wished to impose. This type of open play with some structure provided by Arena could only help boost player engagement.
I was really excited for a new format, but I did not want it to include Kaladesh
I HATE ENERGY
I am super stoked for UB control now that we're getting a great 2CMC kill spell to go with Push, and I'll probably make sure I get me some Scarab Gods and Torrential Gearhulks when they rotate.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My bet was on Origins, you know, cause it's a very flavourful starting point, but I'd be very happy to skip the Eldrazi-plagued garbage fire that was the BFZ-OGW block. It's also kind of clumsy to not sync it to the M15 frame change, but that's a minor detail.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
It would match up with the company goals to move to a new competitive format to push the game. Right now it feels like there's so much information to take in from different places that trying to build a cohesive story as to what is going on with the company and game is a headache. What I know is that there is a big disconnect between the aging players and the company due to the company wanting to focus their attention on bringing eager 12-18 year old players into the game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Interesting how you reached this conclusion.
So far, we know that arena runs a rules engine, that allows new or old cards to be 'plug and play', quite different from mtgo where everything has to be coded as its own unique rules entity.
So from their description, it seems they've effectively future-proofed the engine to effortlessly run cards from alpha into the distant future.
And now they've implemented proper timings, priority on abilities/spells and stops on phases etc I see no reason why arena couldn't support modern.
Remember arena is currently (in its beta phase) just a tech demo for a powerful game engine and its the engine that we care about. What gave you the idea that the engine couldn't handle modern?
A non-standard format where color costs actually matter, and you need more thought than "just run 13 fetches and 4 duals and a couple basics"? Yes please.
Modern and Legacy have had fetch/dual forever, and it makes color costs nearly trivial. Bolt, into Grim Flayer, into Liliana, into Bloodbraid? Easy! Does your deck want to cast Delver or Bolt or Deathrite on turn 1 and then follow that up with Abrupt Decay while having Daze for their follow up? No problem!
Beyond the trivial perfect mana for every 3 color deck is the time saved a format like this would offer. My turn, play a fetch, go. Your turn, play a fetch go... WAIT! I have to search, then shuffle, then you cut. My turn, fetch 2, search, shuffle, present, cast something... IN RESPONSE! You crack fetch, shuffle, present... over and over, game after game, round after round.
Honestly no-fetch/dual is one of the more appealing aspects of a format like this.
This proposed format looks perfect for me, and I absolutely think that it looks better than Frontier, if not for anything else then at least because of the lack of fetches and BFZ duals. I really hope that it will become a thing. And I´m pretty optimistic, because look what I found:
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
It's not the engine. The problem is our good old friend connection timeout. Don't take the statement I made as if it can never happen, just that right now it can't as of the beta. That and the system for acquiring cards means people that want to play modern are going to be loot box purchasing for ages before they get the library to do anything. I don't even think modern players like drafting or limited, so there is the added value tossed out the window.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
those are all superficial details that can change on-the-fly over the course of a beta testing period. the main consideration is whether or not the engine and actual nuts n' bolts behind the frilly surface can handle formats like modern.
your comment was that the game "literally can't" run modern because of "complex interaction" so don't start backpedalling on economy or whatever.