With that said, I don't think 10 bucks a pack is the right price. And I won't open a single pack of this that I'm not drafting, though that has been true for most Masters sets.
Same. I have never bought a masters pack of any sort just for the thrill of opening it (and I won't this time, and never planned to). Every single masters pack I've ever cracked was in either draft or sealed. Part of the value proposition is the afternoon/evening of play of a new limited environment, and store prizing.
UB control looks pretty brutal in Limited: Disfigure at 1, Counterspell, Accumulated Knowledge and Diabolic Edict at 2, Murder and Exclude at 3 and Ravenous Chupacabra at 4, with a smattering of decent cycling creatures plugging the hole inbetween including the landcyclers which can double up as finishers. And all of that at Common except for the Chupacabra.
Is this set actually worse than iconic masters? If jace didn't get unbanned I don't think there is a single scalding tarn, mana drain or force of will level of a card here.
UB control looks pretty brutal in Limited: Disfigure at 1, Counterspell, Accumulated Knowledge and Diabolic Edict at 2, Murder and Exclude at 3 and Ravenous Chupacabra at 4, with a smattering of decent cycling creatures plugging the hole inbetween including the landcyclers which can double up as finishers. And all of that at Common except for the Chupacabra.
I just hate how this and iconic masters have a seemingly similar theme and both failed completely at it, while also failing at providing an interesting set players would want to buy. It feels like you could combine the two into one set and get something halfway decent. These boosters still being ten euros is just laughable.
Hmmm.... The next time I'm in the mood to gamble, I'm debating if it's better to buy a $10 pack of M25 or $10 in instant lotto tickets and then buy singles with any money I get back...
On the one hand, I could, in theory, open cards that are worth more than $10 to me personally, but the likelihood is fairly low. Otherwise, I'd need to open enough to get $10 in either trade-in value from my LGS or trade value from other players (and hope that they have things I want enough to trade for and are actually fair traders).
On the other hand, instant lotto tickets don't have any significant time cost to them regarding finding a buyer/trader. Tossing the numbers from an arbitrary $10 instant lotto ticket into a spreadsheet, it looks like the expected value of the ticket is roughly $7.62 ($28.71 average winning value, 1:3.77 win chance). That's roughly the price I would expect the filter lands to settle on in the end, so...
Yup, looks like actual gambling is the way to go for this set.
gotta say i am incredibly disappointed in this set as a masters set, especially a 25th anniversary one. low number of cards iconic to the game, not a single notable reprint from khans block onwards, only a single planeswalker, questionable value.
and, above all, the intended limited archetypes look like an ABSOLUTE mess. A TON of cycling and morph with no significant payoffs what so ever, R/B rituals and nothing to do with them, Green ramp with nothing worth ramping into, Black/x sacrifice with not a whole lot to sac, tokens with only hordeling outburst and stangg as token producers, U/R spells with only a single payoff card. I think U/W blink and Auras might be the only intended limited archetypes to get there. we'll see how the limited environment plays out, but it looks sloppy.
Is this set actually worse than iconic masters? If jace didn't get unbanned I don't think there is a single scalding tarn, mana drain or force of will level of a card here.
It's definitely worse than Iconic. How many Modern/Legacy staples are there at rare? Maybe Blood Moon or Pact of Negation? Azusa certainly sees Modern play, but she's not a staple since she's only really in one archetype. Port may be a Legacy staple, but (1) the number of players active in Legacy is FAR lower than Modern, and (2) Port's high price is way more attributable to low supply than high demand. Port's price will TANK after the set's release.
Pact and Blood Moon are currently under $20 each, and Pact will almost certainly drop to below $10 with the set's release.
By contrast, Iconic Masters has Horizon Canopy, Aether Vial, Cryptic Command, Thoughtseize, and Ancestral Vision ALL AT RARE. Three of those are sitting at around $30 each and the other two are just under $20 each. And that's several months after the set's release when boxes can be had for $140 online.
The only true competitive staples in the set with any value are at Mythic (and there five or less at that), so while it's true that their value will hold over time, players will only open them an eighth as often as if they were a regular rare.
Bad, bad set. I say this because I care: Do not purchase any sealed product. You are burning your money.
One Arabian Nights card and they give us Erg Raiders, what a miss.
I know most of the stuff in this set that’s not on the reserved list do mot make for good reprints but come on. Junun Efreet, Rukh Egg, or Sorceress Queen would all have better choices. Even Stone-Throwing Devils or El-Hajjaj.
I know the templating was goofy as all get out, but Oubliette?
While I'm not exactly a fan of this set and I do share the same bad taste in my mouth it's given me with everyone else, I decided to crunch a few numbers to see if this set really is the dumpster fire of (non)value that it looked like and the results did surprise me a little. Using price points for all the rares/mythics from the time Rivals of Ixalan was printed (so as not to take into account the huge Jace spike or the Imperial Recruiter anti-spike), the prices ranged from 0.37 to 149.99 USD with a median of ~5.30, which was a lot higher than I expected. I understand that this is a huge simplification, but the rare/mythic slot is averaging at covering half the price of the pack, which is about what I expect out of Standard legal product as well. Not to say I'll be spending any money on this product because that price of entry is way too high for my blood, but I just thought this was some interesting food for thought.
I haven't bought a single sealed Masters product since the loathsome experience I had with EMA.
That box I drop-kicked over a table and left it laying on the floor, against the wall, while my buddy who helped me open it and I proceeded to sit down to a table of EDH.
The entire Eternal, Iconic and Masters 25 series has been a sad saaaaaaaaad experience. A journey of let-downs. Destroy all player's hope. They can't be regenerated.
I have no more hope for premium priced product.
I will be hoping that Battlebond and other products that contain newly designed cards that bypass other formats will pick up the slack.
I preordered a box a few weeks ago and cancelled it after Plague Wind dropped. Last time WoTC got my dollars was that box of EMA. All sealed product I've gotten since EMA has been via trade to my store owner.. Until this preorder I made for A25.. I felt like this set was the chance to change my outlook on the Masters product... and Day1 spoilers had my hope up.... then it was all downhill after Day1. My experience with EMA was so bad that when I drop kicked that box of cards I decided I probably wasn't going to give any more dollar bills to WoTC.. I get the EDH sets every year and slide a dual land across the table to the store owner for them but as far as sliding dollar bills across tables, WoTC hasn't stepped up to the table yet to earn it.
This set is a terrible gamble. It's almost a certainty that a person will lose their ass in buying this letdown. My primary concern with these masters products has always been the card choice.. No Rhystic Study, no Demonic Tutor the list goes on and on and on and on and ends at a stupid ass tree mythic. Actually for me it ended at Plague Winds!
I made this document just to gauge my own interest from a financial perspective since I haven’t been getting the warm and fuzzies by just looking through the spoilers.
It’s not perfect and I did some rounding. I missed some cards, particularly the uncommon and common cards revealed today. Again, I intended this for my own use. However, it was revealing for me. I used TCG Mid for my price references. I only focused on cards that were above $2 unless I had a special interest in them.
Looking at the list - when values get corrected for the cards that had high prices due to low supply - I just can’t see how it’s worth it to pay $10 a pack which is nothing surprising. But, it also showed me how few cards I was interested in.
Absurd rares and mythics with 13 in them aside the set needs like 50 more cards to flush out the limited archetypes. But its too expensive to draft anyway so really who cares?
Street Wraith is at $9 right now so it's worth a pack and there are some other good ones too.
Same. I have never bought a masters pack of any sort just for the thrill of opening it (and I won't this time, and never planned to). Every single masters pack I've ever cracked was in either draft or sealed. Part of the value proposition is the afternoon/evening of play of a new limited environment, and store prizing.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
I'm on the Temur Combo train. Horseshoe Crab, Freed from the Real, Quicksilver Dagger, Presence of Gond, Retraction Helix, Heavy Arbalest, Nettle Sentinel. Crab/Gond/Helix/Sentinel all common.
Squadron Hawk
Accumulated Knowledge
Relentless rats!!!!!!!
Kindle
Timberpack Wolf
Self-Assembler
But atleast they unbanned Jace, right?
I am not buying any of these packs at full price. Way too many feel bad moments. To be honest, I am not even sure I would draft this set.
On the one hand, I could, in theory, open cards that are worth more than $10 to me personally, but the likelihood is fairly low. Otherwise, I'd need to open enough to get $10 in either trade-in value from my LGS or trade value from other players (and hope that they have things I want enough to trade for and are actually fair traders).
On the other hand, instant lotto tickets don't have any significant time cost to them regarding finding a buyer/trader. Tossing the numbers from an arbitrary $10 instant lotto ticket into a spreadsheet, it looks like the expected value of the ticket is roughly $7.62 ($28.71 average winning value, 1:3.77 win chance). That's roughly the price I would expect the filter lands to settle on in the end, so...
Yup, looks like actual gambling is the way to go for this set.
gotta say i am incredibly disappointed in this set as a masters set, especially a 25th anniversary one. low number of cards iconic to the game, not a single notable reprint from khans block onwards, only a single planeswalker, questionable value.
and, above all, the intended limited archetypes look like an ABSOLUTE mess. A TON of cycling and morph with no significant payoffs what so ever, R/B rituals and nothing to do with them, Green ramp with nothing worth ramping into, Black/x sacrifice with not a whole lot to sac, tokens with only hordeling outburst and stangg as token producers, U/R spells with only a single payoff card. I think U/W blink and Auras might be the only intended limited archetypes to get there. we'll see how the limited environment plays out, but it looks sloppy.
Just so you know, this is not new art, but a cropped version of the textless WPN version. It's pretty rad.
My 720 Peasant Cube
It's definitely worse than Iconic. How many Modern/Legacy staples are there at rare? Maybe Blood Moon or Pact of Negation? Azusa certainly sees Modern play, but she's not a staple since she's only really in one archetype. Port may be a Legacy staple, but (1) the number of players active in Legacy is FAR lower than Modern, and (2) Port's high price is way more attributable to low supply than high demand. Port's price will TANK after the set's release.
Pact and Blood Moon are currently under $20 each, and Pact will almost certainly drop to below $10 with the set's release.
By contrast, Iconic Masters has Horizon Canopy, Aether Vial, Cryptic Command, Thoughtseize, and Ancestral Vision ALL AT RARE. Three of those are sitting at around $30 each and the other two are just under $20 each. And that's several months after the set's release when boxes can be had for $140 online.
The only true competitive staples in the set with any value are at Mythic (and there five or less at that), so while it's true that their value will hold over time, players will only open them an eighth as often as if they were a regular rare.
Bad, bad set. I say this because I care: Do not purchase any sealed product. You are burning your money.
I don't know how I skipped over them twice. I even commented on Ash Barrens in this forum.
Refers to the Vess family and the Vess girl who eternally seeks for her brother. Do we have foreshadowing from Dominaria occuring?
That flavor text isn’t on any of the other printings of the card...
I know most of the stuff in this set that’s not on the reserved list do mot make for good reprints but come on. Junun Efreet, Rukh Egg, or Sorceress Queen would all have better choices. Even Stone-Throwing Devils or El-Hajjaj.
I know the templating was goofy as all get out, but Oubliette?
That box I drop-kicked over a table and left it laying on the floor, against the wall, while my buddy who helped me open it and I proceeded to sit down to a table of EDH.
The entire Eternal, Iconic and Masters 25 series has been a sad saaaaaaaaad experience. A journey of let-downs. Destroy all player's hope. They can't be regenerated.
I have no more hope for premium priced product.
I will be hoping that Battlebond and other products that contain newly designed cards that bypass other formats will pick up the slack.
I preordered a box a few weeks ago and cancelled it after Plague Wind dropped. Last time WoTC got my dollars was that box of EMA. All sealed product I've gotten since EMA has been via trade to my store owner.. Until this preorder I made for A25.. I felt like this set was the chance to change my outlook on the Masters product... and Day1 spoilers had my hope up.... then it was all downhill after Day1. My experience with EMA was so bad that when I drop kicked that box of cards I decided I probably wasn't going to give any more dollar bills to WoTC.. I get the EDH sets every year and slide a dual land across the table to the store owner for them but as far as sliding dollar bills across tables, WoTC hasn't stepped up to the table yet to earn it.
This set is a terrible gamble. It's almost a certainty that a person will lose their ass in buying this letdown. My primary concern with these masters products has always been the card choice.. No Rhystic Study, no Demonic Tutor the list goes on and on and on and on and ends at a stupid ass tree mythic. Actually for me it ended at Plague Winds!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
There are threads about new pauper legalities on both pauper boards here, but I don't think either one has a complete collated list.
From what I can see:
Fencing Ace, Geist of the Moors, Loyal Sentry, Borrowing 100,000 Arrows, Court Hussar, Dragon's Eye Savants,
Relentless Rats, Ruthless Ripper, Balduvian Horde, Cinder Storm, Crimson Mage, Frenzied Goblin, Hordeling Outburst, Jackal Pup, Pillage, Skeletonize, Ainok Survivalist
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WMtBC7Z6srZGRH4kLNfu9WQGtBi1qZLyDU__Mri4pJg/edit?usp=sharing
It’s not perfect and I did some rounding. I missed some cards, particularly the uncommon and common cards revealed today. Again, I intended this for my own use. However, it was revealing for me. I used TCG Mid for my price references. I only focused on cards that were above $2 unless I had a special interest in them.
Looking at the list - when values get corrected for the cards that had high prices due to low supply - I just can’t see how it’s worth it to pay $10 a pack which is nothing surprising. But, it also showed me how few cards I was interested in.
Absurd rares and mythics with 13 in them aside the set needs like 50 more cards to flush out the limited archetypes. But its too expensive to draft anyway so really who cares?
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
They still royally screwed the rares and mythics