Yeah but buyback and Infect need to be part of a draft archetype or environment as every others masters set has been. They're also made in a perfect draft pod number of 24 packs, so they can't stretch too far with the keywords. I'd personally love to see capsize in another set, but I'm not too optimistic about them printing up buyback. However Phyrexian Tower I've been suggesting in other posts and I really want that to be a reality.
Infect in particular would need to be an archtype, probably for G/B, but if WOTC does reprint the much needed Blightsteel Colossus, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and others creatures with infect or poisonous wouldn't be too far behind. Also, if that was the case, even Leeches could be reprinted in this set, particularly at uncommon or common.
I don't see buyback as an archtype, but if Capsize was reprinted, because of it's buyback cost, WOTC could put it at rare or so because of it's power level as a undermined card from back in the day of it's release. Plus, the tempest watermark would look dope.
Yeah but buyback and Infect need to be part of a draft archetype or environment as every others masters set has been. They're also made in a perfect draft pod number of 24 packs, so they can't stretch too far with the keywords. I'd personally love to see capsize in another set, but I'm not too optimistic about them printing up buyback. However Phyrexian Tower I've been suggesting in other posts and I really want that to be a reality.
Infect in particular would need to be an archtype, probably for G/B, but if WOTC does reprint the much needed Blightsteel Colossus, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and others creatures with infect or poisonous wouldn't be too far behind. Also, if that was the case, even Leeches could be reprinted in this set, particularly at uncommon or common.
I don't see buyback as an archtype, but if Capsize was reprinted, because of it's buyback cost, WOTC could put it at rare or so because of it's power level as a undermined card from back in the day of it's release. Plus, the tempest watermark would look dope.
Oh yeah infect is a floodgate so you're right there. Leeches could satiate the collective crying of anit-infect players.
As far as Capsize, it would be nice to have updated everything past the invocation era, still kinda 50/50 on it. I'd like foil copies that aren't in the $25+ range but I'm sure they have bigger rares to proverbially fry in the masters chunk. I'd really be behind seeing obscure expensive crap from Lorwyn/Shadowmoor like Bloom Tender and Prismatic Omen or even the desperately needed Doubling Season. But knowing wizards, they'll double down on the good stuff for the next few masters products, and give us great gems like Channel again.
At least it looks like they are off to a better start with this than with iconic masters. Masters sets may be a heartless cash grab from the company, but if they are going to do a heartless cash grab at least make it feel like it is worth buying one of these things. They already got two big name cards on the packs that we've identified and the third is probably going to be on similar scale. Given what we've seen so far I think this is fitting my prediction that the set is going to be a modern masters that happens to get some legacy cards to back it up.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
this is too close on the heels of iconic, and coupled with the poor set design of the past few, for me to care at all.
Iconic Masters and Masters 25 are not going to be comparable. Iconic Masters was a set created when they shifted direction from sticking lottery cards in the standard boxes. That's why the set seemed so weird to look at. Masters 25 is probably going to be more true to the typical masters set so I'm fully expecting it to be really good. The downside is that I'm also expecting it to be underprinted compared to other sets of the past. WoTC knows the player base is shrinking, which means limited run sets are going to get hit hard. The second wave of the Unset was comically small, for example, and I'm just hoping masters 25 doesn't turn into a vingolf 3 scenario with a 240 msrp box set.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yeah but buyback and Infect need to be part of a draft archetype or environment as every others masters set has been. They're also made in a perfect draft pod number of 24 packs, so they can't stretch too far with the keywords. I'd personally love to see capsize in another set, but I'm not too optimistic about them printing up buyback. However Phyrexian Tower I've been suggesting in other posts and I really want that to be a reality.
They could do this if they added stuff like Searing Touch, the giant growth variant, Slaughter, Reaping the Rewards and so on. The problem is that Capsize is really, REALLY good since it bounces lands, and you'd have to put it at Uncommon. Sadly, I do not see a cycle of buyback (:D) so the three cards from Tempest will be something else, maybe Shocker or Bounty Hunter or whatnot.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Iconic Masters and Masters 25 are not going to be comparable. Iconic Masters was a set created when they shifted direction from sticking lottery cards in the standard boxes. That's why the set seemed so weird to look at. Masters 25 is probably going to be more true to the typical masters set so I'm fully expecting it to be really good. The downside is that I'm also expecting it to be underprinted compared to other sets of the past. WoTC knows the player base is shrinking, which means limited run sets are going to get hit hard. The second wave of the Unset was comically small, for example, and I'm just hoping masters 25 doesn't turn into a vingolf 3 scenario with a 240 msrp box set.
They did mention that Masters 25 will follow Iconic's print pattern, meaning it'll be sold at big-box stores, which was also a factor in Iconic Master's "downfall", so I don't think print runs will be a problem (EMA and MM3 went on pretty fine for Masters standards).
Iconic was hit with several problems at once - it technically had the same problem as Eternal Masters in where the chase cards (e.g. Mana Crypt, Mana Drain) were expensive purely from extreme scarcity rather than usage. The reason Eternal floated better was because it was still LGS-restricted (yes that's not a good thing from a purely-player perspective on supply, but objectively it is a relevant factor regardless of opinion on the matter) and Mana Crypt was honestly at least a tier higher than Mana Drain in EDH (where both cards were most relevant) because of its colorless nature.
Modern Masters, on the other hand, ran more on usage than supply and hence supply didn't outright crash the value of the cards - it took 3 Masters Sets over 5 years (alongside diminished usage) to get Goyf back to its peak Standard Price. Yes, granted the first two Masters were experimental disasters in different ways and had less print, but combined they should still outnumber Eternal or Iconic individually.
I'm not confident at M25 at the moment, because JTMS isn't that high-usage (especially when he already had a reprint in Eternal) and neither is Azusa, actually (better than JTMS simply because she isn't outright banned in Modern, but still crippled since Bloom isn't a thing anymore). Even a Demonic Tutor reprint will not gather too much confidence, because it will be better than Drain, but worse than Crypt on the EDH front.
Despite all my relative negativity here, I was ironically quite happy with Iconic in the sense it showed what really happens when price drops are successful - that the demand for MSRP and below actually started working in some ways - that was a pipe dream with the likes of the first two Modern Masters and Eternal was the middle ground that fought hard enough to sustain that. MM3 was just unique that it hit a lot of important points (Fetches, LotV and arguably even smaller cards like Death's Shadow) that it was capable of maintaining its fighting point. If anything, M25 needs to be less Eternal/Iconic and more MM3, so we can see the effect of a MM3 on a "second run" with Iconic's release pattern.
Please don't ever compare Unset prints to Masters prints though, MaRo takes extra care personally concerning himself with UnSet prints because they got burned quite badly twice to the point MaRo needed 10 years from the last one to re-convince his higher-ups to get a third one out and that's for a set that's arguably the pet project of the game's head designer. Masters printing strike me as more often a marketing/logistics-sides decision with some R&D input than largely driven by a single person.
So basically I personally feel the "big-name cards" aren't really that big enough to hold the product and it will depend a lot of the many other supporting cards - even a lone Demonic Tutor will not grab me too much confidence because I personally feel I have enough examples from Eternal and Iconic to think that way now.
Disclaimer that it's all my opinion from my perspective from analyzing previous sets and I could be completely wrong for all I know (especially when we only have 2 preview cards so I do know I'm commenting way too early, but at the same time after MM3's relatively recent print and Modern's stabilizing, I cannot imagine a lot of high-usage cards that can hold product nicely at the moment, mostly are scarcity-driven cards that follow Crypt/Drain patterns).
Just for the record, I personally think the last card is Steel Overseer - it doesn't have the Darksteel nor Phyrexian properties to be either Colossus and honestly it looks more like a buffed Overseer than a skinny Emperion to me (or at least I think it's more likely the artist drew a buffed Overseer than a skinnier Emperion since its likely they know what they're drawing already), also it has the same blue glow the MM Arcbound Ravager had. And no, it's definitely not Ravager to me at least, Ravager has the Beast subtype and all variations depict it that it moves mainly on its fours, so I doubt it suddenly got a sliver-treatment for a single, arguably deck-iconic card (especially since Affinity doesn't really run any cards with the ability in it much anymore, so Ravager is sort of the last reminder of the older version of the deck).
this is too close on the heels of iconic, and coupled with the poor set design of the past few, for me to care at all.
Iconic Masters and Masters 25 are not going to be comparable. Iconic Masters was a set created when they shifted direction from sticking lottery cards in the standard boxes. That's why the set seemed so weird to look at. Masters 25 is probably going to be more true to the typical masters set so I'm fully expecting it to be really good. The downside is that I'm also expecting it to be underprinted compared to other sets of the past. WoTC knows the player base is shrinking, which means limited run sets are going to get hit hard. The second wave of the Unset was comically small, for example, and I'm just hoping masters 25 doesn't turn into a vingolf 3 scenario with a 240 msrp box set.
and i'm saying i'll hold out judgement until its released, but for now i am not even a little excited because of the previous masters sets. there is really anything to debate there.
Iconic masters gave a lot of rates and mythics and they desperate for reprints and their prices dropped a bit from before.
And you guys hate it why all the hate for iconic? And t gave amazing stuff.
I agree personally that the set had a lot of fun cards, and in fact remember sharing a mutual enthusiasm with you when the cards were getting spoiled during Hascon. Not everyone has those same thoughts though. Other than Mana Drain, there wasn't much value that would get people excited when they spend $10 a pack. There was also the shindig that the name "Iconic Masters" was very misleading as other than Mana Drain and the creature archtypes, nothing lead older players to believe in the fact that it was "iconic", no nostalgia, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I personally loved it for my own reasons, but Iconic Masters did fail what it was supposed to do with the general player base.
this is too close on the heels of iconic, and coupled with the poor set design of the past few, for me to care at all.
Iconic Masters and Masters 25 are not going to be comparable. Iconic Masters was a set created when they shifted direction from sticking lottery cards in the standard boxes. That's why the set seemed so weird to look at. Masters 25 is probably going to be more true to the typical masters set so I'm fully expecting it to be really good. The downside is that I'm also expecting it to be underprinted compared to other sets of the past. WoTC knows the player base is shrinking, which means limited run sets are going to get hit hard. The second wave of the Unset was comically small, for example, and I'm just hoping masters 25 doesn't turn into a vingolf 3 scenario with a 240 msrp box set.
and i'm saying i'll hold out judgement until its released, but for now i am not even a little excited because of the previous masters sets. there is really anything to debate there.
Oh yeah, I understand completely. After the nightmare they put everyone through this xmas season the only way I'm getting excited for a set is if it has only 1/4 of the rares and mythics being under 8 dollars. The problem wizards has is they make great sets with the masters series, but then take them to the butcher block and just over price the suckers to the moon. Iconic masters was basically just the tipping point because of the weird distribution catching people off guard and how they failed to deliver on expectations. The fact the set plummeted in value just from the latter two when the similar Modern Masters 2015 still managed to hold at 200 a box for a while speaks volumes.
Unfortunately, I don't think we're getting that low msrp opportunity with Masters 25. Wizards is selling it at 240 msrp and if they deliver on putting the cards people expect to see, even if it is as simple as throwing counter spells and lightning bolts into it, we're going to be seeing prices at minimum being 190 a box.
Honestly, I don't know how WoTC makes money or who is giving them the money to justify the prices. A relatively inexpensive card game like Force of Will can average out to being between 100-150 usd a month on singles and sealed product. Magic the Gathering is just massively over that threshold except for casual play.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Honestly, I don't know how WoTC makes money or who is giving them the money to justify the prices. A relatively inexpensive card game like Force of Will can average out to being between 100-150 usd a month on singles and sealed product. Magic the Gathering is just massively over that threshold except for casual play.
Walmart, Target and the like that sell at MSRP. They sell it and LGSs have to play ball for the most part. As long as uber casuals and/or their parents buy it at department stores, it'll continue to be churned out. The unfortunate part is that these products are becoming homogeneous by having like 80% rares that are fetch-worthy but not over the top for value. As far as I'm concerned MM17 was well done (from a value and reprint standpoint) and they should have stuck with "Modern" and "Eternal" in the titles, instead of heading down the road to having "March" or "Seasonal" Masters etc.
Is the Magic symbol with 25 in front of it. Its not that bad!
While your description is right (if one equates the planeswalker symbol with the Magic symbol), I'll agree that the set symbol is busy due to the fact that the planeswalker symbol is not really suited to be a background to more text - it's too detailed.
On the plus side the cards all have watermarks with much more prominent and much prettier set symbols?
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Initial impressions are that this is "Master's edition: we're not f*(&ing around this time".
Good. I hope this can abate some of the fears people had about masters sets after Iconic Masters.
Every single Masters set in the past has had a chorus of unbridled hype as the first most valuable cards are revealed that cooled to big disappointment once the entire set was revealed. You shouldn't take this to be any indication of how the full set will look. Calm the hype.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Wait, how expensive can a common, mostly used in Commander, from a set that was honestly worse than Homelands, at a time when they really were overprinting things, be? *looks at price statistics on MTGSal* 💰 📈 🤑
Err, pardon me, I have to go to my LGS...*hums "We're in the Money"*
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Colt47 wants a Rhystic Study reprint. Albeit, I think they may not reprint it outside of commander because of the fact in draft someone has to keep asking "did you pay the study tax?"
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You probably noticed already, but it looks like your wish came true.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
2-3 expensive cards isn't enough to sell the set. Unless Wizards wants another dud to collect dust on store shelves like Iconic Masters, they'd better stuff this one full of format staples (i.e. LANDS!! LANDS!! LANDS!!).
It’s kinda expected now that there’ll be a cycle of 5 rare lands, right? They did a cycle of 5 in MM17, they did a cycle of 5 in IMA - I expect a cycle of 5 here.
I'm not sure what lands they are using for this coming masters 25 set. If rumors are true, we are heading towards Ravnica again so the shock lands are going to get reprinted there possibly in the fall or even sooner (they pair well with the check lands, so it will be like the BFZ/SOI mana only better). The only land cycles I can think of that are left are the long overdo filter lands, which would be a godsend, the onslaught fetchlands, or at worse the enemy check lands.
Also, the reason iconic masters failed is not because of the big box stores getting it. It was the fact the set didn't meet anyones expectations as an iconic set and people were disappointed in the large number of fun, but not terribly competitive cards that got stacked in it. I dare say that SoI and EMN had more interesting and powerful cards in it than Iconic masters and the cost per box was far lower.
Seeing Phyrexian Obliterator is making me think they may reprint Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to help ease the high black requirement and promote a theme. If they do a card from each set they may also reprint Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Purphoros, god of the forge. Lets hope they don't go lowballing this set with a ton of filler cards like the last one because as much as Hypersonic Dragon is a cool card it doesn't justify the price tag on the set.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Infect in particular would need to be an archtype, probably for G/B, but if WOTC does reprint the much needed Blightsteel Colossus, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and others creatures with infect or poisonous wouldn't be too far behind. Also, if that was the case, even Leeches could be reprinted in this set, particularly at uncommon or common.
I don't see buyback as an archtype, but if Capsize was reprinted, because of it's buyback cost, WOTC could put it at rare or so because of it's power level as a undermined card from back in the day of it's release. Plus, the tempest watermark would look dope.
EDH DECKS
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MAGECRAFT STORM
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Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
Please please please reprint Phyrexian Obliterator
As far as Capsize, it would be nice to have updated everything past the invocation era, still kinda 50/50 on it. I'd like foil copies that aren't in the $25+ range but I'm sure they have bigger rares to proverbially fry in the masters chunk. I'd really be behind seeing obscure expensive crap from Lorwyn/Shadowmoor like Bloom Tender and Prismatic Omen or even the desperately needed Doubling Season. But knowing wizards, they'll double down on the good stuff for the next few masters products, and give us great gems like Channel again.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As for the idea Jace 2 being unbanned, I can't see that happening. Jace 2 is incredibly oppressive when he's out.
Iconic Masters and Masters 25 are not going to be comparable. Iconic Masters was a set created when they shifted direction from sticking lottery cards in the standard boxes. That's why the set seemed so weird to look at. Masters 25 is probably going to be more true to the typical masters set so I'm fully expecting it to be really good. The downside is that I'm also expecting it to be underprinted compared to other sets of the past. WoTC knows the player base is shrinking, which means limited run sets are going to get hit hard. The second wave of the Unset was comically small, for example, and I'm just hoping masters 25 doesn't turn into a vingolf 3 scenario with a 240 msrp box set.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They could do this if they added stuff like Searing Touch, the giant growth variant, Slaughter, Reaping the Rewards and so on. The problem is that Capsize is really, REALLY good since it bounces lands, and you'd have to put it at Uncommon. Sadly, I do not see a cycle of buyback (:D) so the three cards from Tempest will be something else, maybe Shocker or Bounty Hunter or whatnot.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
They did mention that Masters 25 will follow Iconic's print pattern, meaning it'll be sold at big-box stores, which was also a factor in Iconic Master's "downfall", so I don't think print runs will be a problem (EMA and MM3 went on pretty fine for Masters standards).
Iconic was hit with several problems at once - it technically had the same problem as Eternal Masters in where the chase cards (e.g. Mana Crypt, Mana Drain) were expensive purely from extreme scarcity rather than usage. The reason Eternal floated better was because it was still LGS-restricted (yes that's not a good thing from a purely-player perspective on supply, but objectively it is a relevant factor regardless of opinion on the matter) and Mana Crypt was honestly at least a tier higher than Mana Drain in EDH (where both cards were most relevant) because of its colorless nature.
Modern Masters, on the other hand, ran more on usage than supply and hence supply didn't outright crash the value of the cards - it took 3 Masters Sets over 5 years (alongside diminished usage) to get Goyf back to its peak Standard Price. Yes, granted the first two Masters were experimental disasters in different ways and had less print, but combined they should still outnumber Eternal or Iconic individually.
I'm not confident at M25 at the moment, because JTMS isn't that high-usage (especially when he already had a reprint in Eternal) and neither is Azusa, actually (better than JTMS simply because she isn't outright banned in Modern, but still crippled since Bloom isn't a thing anymore). Even a Demonic Tutor reprint will not gather too much confidence, because it will be better than Drain, but worse than Crypt on the EDH front.
Despite all my relative negativity here, I was ironically quite happy with Iconic in the sense it showed what really happens when price drops are successful - that the demand for MSRP and below actually started working in some ways - that was a pipe dream with the likes of the first two Modern Masters and Eternal was the middle ground that fought hard enough to sustain that. MM3 was just unique that it hit a lot of important points (Fetches, LotV and arguably even smaller cards like Death's Shadow) that it was capable of maintaining its fighting point. If anything, M25 needs to be less Eternal/Iconic and more MM3, so we can see the effect of a MM3 on a "second run" with Iconic's release pattern.
Please don't ever compare Unset prints to Masters prints though, MaRo takes extra care personally concerning himself with UnSet prints because they got burned quite badly twice to the point MaRo needed 10 years from the last one to re-convince his higher-ups to get a third one out and that's for a set that's arguably the pet project of the game's head designer. Masters printing strike me as more often a marketing/logistics-sides decision with some R&D input than largely driven by a single person.
So basically I personally feel the "big-name cards" aren't really that big enough to hold the product and it will depend a lot of the many other supporting cards - even a lone Demonic Tutor will not grab me too much confidence because I personally feel I have enough examples from Eternal and Iconic to think that way now.
Disclaimer that it's all my opinion from my perspective from analyzing previous sets and I could be completely wrong for all I know (especially when we only have 2 preview cards so I do know I'm commenting way too early, but at the same time after MM3's relatively recent print and Modern's stabilizing, I cannot imagine a lot of high-usage cards that can hold product nicely at the moment, mostly are scarcity-driven cards that follow Crypt/Drain patterns).
Just for the record, I personally think the last card is Steel Overseer - it doesn't have the Darksteel nor Phyrexian properties to be either Colossus and honestly it looks more like a buffed Overseer than a skinny Emperion to me (or at least I think it's more likely the artist drew a buffed Overseer than a skinnier Emperion since its likely they know what they're drawing already), also it has the same blue glow the MM Arcbound Ravager had. And no, it's definitely not Ravager to me at least, Ravager has the Beast subtype and all variations depict it that it moves mainly on its fours, so I doubt it suddenly got a sliver-treatment for a single, arguably deck-iconic card (especially since Affinity doesn't really run any cards with the ability in it much anymore, so Ravager is sort of the last reminder of the older version of the deck).
Iconic masters gave a lot of rates and mythics and they desperate for reprints and their prices dropped a bit from before.
And you guys hate it why all the hate for iconic? And t gave amazing stuff.
and i'm saying i'll hold out judgement until its released, but for now i am not even a little excited because of the previous masters sets. there is really anything to debate there.
I agree personally that the set had a lot of fun cards, and in fact remember sharing a mutual enthusiasm with you when the cards were getting spoiled during Hascon. Not everyone has those same thoughts though. Other than Mana Drain, there wasn't much value that would get people excited when they spend $10 a pack. There was also the shindig that the name "Iconic Masters" was very misleading as other than Mana Drain and the creature archtypes, nothing lead older players to believe in the fact that it was "iconic", no nostalgia, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I personally loved it for my own reasons, but Iconic Masters did fail what it was supposed to do with the general player base.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
Comparing the way that IMA was billed versus what its contents and outcome are I think it's a ****ing disaster.
Oh yeah, I understand completely. After the nightmare they put everyone through this xmas season the only way I'm getting excited for a set is if it has only 1/4 of the rares and mythics being under 8 dollars. The problem wizards has is they make great sets with the masters series, but then take them to the butcher block and just over price the suckers to the moon. Iconic masters was basically just the tipping point because of the weird distribution catching people off guard and how they failed to deliver on expectations. The fact the set plummeted in value just from the latter two when the similar Modern Masters 2015 still managed to hold at 200 a box for a while speaks volumes.
Unfortunately, I don't think we're getting that low msrp opportunity with Masters 25. Wizards is selling it at 240 msrp and if they deliver on putting the cards people expect to see, even if it is as simple as throwing counter spells and lightning bolts into it, we're going to be seeing prices at minimum being 190 a box.
Honestly, I don't know how WoTC makes money or who is giving them the money to justify the prices. A relatively inexpensive card game like Force of Will can average out to being between 100-150 usd a month on singles and sealed product. Magic the Gathering is just massively over that threshold except for casual play.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
While your description is right (if one equates the planeswalker symbol with the Magic symbol), I'll agree that the set symbol is busy due to the fact that the planeswalker symbol is not really suited to be a background to more text - it's too detailed.
On the plus side the cards all have watermarks with much more prominent and much prettier set symbols?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Every single Masters set in the past has had a chorus of unbridled hype as the first most valuable cards are revealed that cooled to big disappointment once the entire set was revealed. You shouldn't take this to be any indication of how the full set will look. Calm the hype.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Wait, how expensive can a common, mostly used in Commander, from a set that was honestly worse than Homelands, at a time when they really were overprinting things, be? *looks at price statistics on MTGSal* 💰 📈 🤑
Err, pardon me, I have to go to my LGS...*hums "We're in the Money"*
On phasing:
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You probably noticed already, but it looks like your wish came true.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It’s kinda expected now that there’ll be a cycle of 5 rare lands, right? They did a cycle of 5 in MM17, they did a cycle of 5 in IMA - I expect a cycle of 5 here.
Also, the reason iconic masters failed is not because of the big box stores getting it. It was the fact the set didn't meet anyones expectations as an iconic set and people were disappointed in the large number of fun, but not terribly competitive cards that got stacked in it. I dare say that SoI and EMN had more interesting and powerful cards in it than Iconic masters and the cost per box was far lower.
Seeing Phyrexian Obliterator is making me think they may reprint Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to help ease the high black requirement and promote a theme. If they do a card from each set they may also reprint Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Purphoros, god of the forge. Lets hope they don't go lowballing this set with a ton of filler cards like the last one because as much as Hypersonic Dragon is a cool card it doesn't justify the price tag on the set.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!