This deck sprung up from an interesting idea I had about Kaervek the Merciless, a card that normally motivates immediate removal - what if you let your opponents pick the targets?
There are a few restrictions, of course - if you're casting a spell I don't like (i.e. something that screws me over personally), I choose the targets, and I choose you, pikachu. You also can't request that Kaervek target me, my creatures (exceptions for non-lethal damage where I don't suspect a follow-up), or anything that I have strong reason not to want to target (i.e. a player with no no mercy or a phyrexian obliterator). If you decline to choose a target, I will target you or your creatures, whichever hurts more. And of course, if I'm about to win or lose, I'm going to do what needs to be done.
The list is basically just dedicated to getting kaervek into play ASAP, enhancing his abilities, and then protecting him at all costs.
So far the deck is 2-0, both games people pummeled each other to low life, then gratuitous violence screwed up their math and left them unable to cast spells without dying. At first people were hesitant to use Kaervek (first guy targeted himself just to avoid pissing anyone else off, I guess?) but pretty soon he became a potent control tool for keeping the board under control, with little hate directed at me personally. Success!
Rakdos control, I love it! Politicking never works in my playgroup, Edric, Spymaster of Trest can be thanked for that.. But Kaervek is a house! I have an affinity for Furnace of Rath and Dictate of the Twin Gods, and you are in the colors for Havoc Festival!! (I know, I know.. it's a pet card of mine) I'll give a serious push for Goblin Sharpshooter, with all that deathtouch equipment he can do some damage.
Whoever casts the spell, chooses the targets, unless:
-the spell screws me over
-the choice of kaervek target screws me over
-it's the end of the game (1v1 or about to be)
So far the rules have worked very well. There are a few factors that really make them shine. A big one is that it makes people less hesitant to cast spells. One big weakness Kaervek has, I think, is that people will just stop casting spells until they can kill him, for fear that you'll use their spells to kill their own creatures (or them). So even if the rule was simply "I won't target you with your own spell's trigger" then that would largely do the same thing. That said, I think the blame that people can assign to his trigger being displaced onto the other opponents can be a fairly big deal too.
This deck's winrate has been quite high even for me (something like 70-80%). In a few cases that was due to simply being too powerful for the table, but mostly it was a pretty fair fight, with people simply getting trapped at the end by kaervek's ability and an inability to cast spells without killing themselves.
This is probably in the pantheon of my favorite decks I've ever built - I've kept it together for over a month now, so that's certainly something. It's political-ish, but it still plays a fairly fast game since Kaervek is constantly murdering life totals. He also keeps the game reasonably in check, since everyone has removal stapled onto all of their spells.
Whether I'll actually add it to my permanent collection is a little trickier - the manabase can be budgetified, as can the synergy pieces, but the density of tutors and mana rocks has proven pretty critical, and some of those are way past any reasonable budget. Main concerns would be mana crypt, grim monolith, imperial seal, and grim tutor (which I just realized is not in this list so I must have updated a little). Hitting a mana crypt or sol ring T1-2 is hugely valuable, and losing seal, crypt, and monolith drastically reduces those odds. Grim tutor has more frequently fetched my heavy hitters like gratuitous violence and basilisk collar, and could more easily be replaced.
Rakdos control, I love it! Politicking never works in my playgroup, Edric, Spymaster of Trest can be thanked for that.. But Kaervek is a house! I have an affinity for Furnace of Rath and Dictate of the Twin Gods, and you are in the colors for Havoc Festival!! (I know, I know.. it's a pet card of mine) I'll give a serious push for Goblin Sharpshooter, with all that deathtouch equipment he can do some damage.
I don't think I'd want to run any symmetrical damage doublers, the risks are too high. I played against a dictate once and it went in my favor, but I don't think I'd dedicate a card to it. Havoc festival is not really under consideration, I think it makes it too easy for opponents to finish me off, and a little too chaotic (not the sort of thing likely to improve a 70%+ winrate). Sharpshooter is cute, but the intent of the deck is to focus on the commander, and besides, he only presents a must-answer target that pushes more attention onto me and makes people less likely to play spells. Kaervek wants other people to play scary creatures, so that he becomes a necessary part of the solution, and so they run out of juice.
I don't know what you mean by "politicking never works". The intention of "the rules" here is to alter people's decision making by changing how kaervek works. Without the rules, people tend to get worried that casting spells is going to be bad for them, and thus abstain until kaervek is gone. With the rules and the guarantee* that their own stuff won't be targeted, they have no reason to hold back on casting spells, and thus giving kaervek value - as long as people accept that kaervek is following "the rules", they WILL alter their decision making, even if the only difference is that they cast their other spells BEFORE they kill Kaervek. Is that politics? Arguably. The only way I could see it "not working" is if people refuse to choose a target (which seems pointlessly suicidal - it's happened once or twice, but always very temporarily - as soon as an opponent has something they want dead, they're quick to choose it as a target) or if they just always kill kaervek on sight regardless, which seems like more of a power level issue than a politics-not-working one.
Politics and it's effectiveness are a meta call. My meta is an odd one, most of which I've known for half my life, and is keen to shenanigan. Cards like Nevinyrral's Disk and Oblivion Stone are either Krosan Gripped or the player becomes a focal point for attacks to force a boardwipe instead of allowing the game to be "held hostage." Kaervek would just eat removal before players stopped casting spells. By all means that is no reason to not play a powerful creature. The deck looks like a blast, I love the concept and if it works for you, it sounds like a hell of time. It just wouldn't fly in my meta.
Politics and it's effectiveness are a meta call. My meta is an odd one, most of which I've known for half my life, and is keen to shenanigan. Cards like Nevinyrral's Disk and Oblivion Stone are either Krosan Gripped or the player becomes a focal point for attacks to force a boardwipe instead of allowing the game to be "held hostage." Kaervek would just eat removal before players stopped casting spells. By all means that is no reason to not play a powerful creature. The deck looks like a blast, I love the concept and if it works for you, it sounds like a hell of time. It just wouldn't fly in my meta.
I think that reaction is fairly standard for on-board board wipes, which is why I think it's rarely correct to reveal that you have one unless you're prepared to actually activate it.
Kaervek is sometimes prone to removal (hence all the protection and ramp) but I've never had people stop casting spells until it's the end of the game and they're screwed. I'm confused as to how you think your meta would react to Kaervek. Kill him on sight? I mean, that can happen, but should theoretically only happen if he's the most powerful thing on the board, in which case the solution is to wait until he isn't or until you can protect him adequately. Also, once he's got deathtouch etc equipped, he becomes much harder to remove, as any removal will result in him killing your favorite creature.
I was just comparing Kaervek to o-stone and nev-disk because they share game slowing qualities. He would obviously eat a Path to exile if he was the biggest threat on board. I think with the set of rules you are bringing to the table, he might see a turn or two but the second he impedes someones path to victory either a Wrath of God is coming down or all the creatures would be turned sideways coming your way.
Awesome. Behavior change at the table is my favorite political tool, and the entire focus of my Marchesa deck. I will have to think about this and see what I can do to contribute.
I was just comparing Kaervek to o-stone and nev-disk because they share game slowing qualities. He would obviously eat a Path to exile if he was the biggest threat on board. I think with the set of rules you are bringing to the table, he might see a turn or two but the second he impedes someones path to victory either a Wrath of God is coming down or all the creatures would be turned sideways coming your way.
I mean it's hard to say with any degree of certainty what will happen given that it depends entirely on how your group reacts. All I can say is that, thus far, he has not generally had that effect. I don't see him as particularly likely to be an obvious obstacle to someone else's victory though - many wincons are fairly bursty and thus only vulnerable if other players can cast something in response to trigger kaervek, and if they're trying to build up a big board they're probably going to find it difficult with all enemy spells blowing away their stuff. Kaervek generally makes it very hard to build up a large board since playing a creature usually means removing another one, so the board stays fairly small unless someone is going absolute ham with tokens or something.
I like this approach a lot. I will try the same thing with the Kaervek in my Vial Smasher build, as it goes very well with the Evil Mastermind trope that is inspiring the deck. It will be interesting to see how my playgroup reacts - they are sometimes quite unpredictable, as I had to find out when I built Gahiji and everybody started attacking me because they "refused to be manipulated"...
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
Ha, fun, glad someone else is doing some kaervek experimentation. The secret rule is pretty hilarious, although I imagine it loses some replay value.
Definitely agree about it creating feuds. Deflecting blame is a big part of why this deck is as awesome as I think it is. You get 90% of the power of kaervek, with 20% of the blame. And it's one of the few decks I've built that I really like and also ends the game on a pretty reasonable time scale. It interacts really well against the classic ramp/draw/bomb strategy that most people employ.
So after Geth's revival was a little lukewarm, I've come back to this deck because I want to build a third perma-deck and Kaervek was one of the most interesting recent decks I've built, plus Taylor half-finished an alter of Kaervek for me that features him holding a scroll with my "rules" on them (only the scroll itself is finished, but it looks really good - sadly the air compressor broke so we need a replacement before she can finish).
Anyway, so right now I'm in the middle of working out a revised list, and I'm mostly thinking about what sorts of cards I want to include.
Ramp is a given. He's a 7-mana commander. I think we need to aggressively target a T4 cast without fast mana, meaning t2 rock, t3 bigger rock, t4 kaervek - and of course faster if I hit fast mana. This also means a hefty land count since we probably can't afford to miss a land drop until at least turn 5, and ideally we'd land at least a few more to recover if he's killed, and to shore us up if artifacts get wiped.
Enhancements are obviously a big part of the fun, the main ones being deathtouch and double damage. I think in general we'll want to stay away from enhancements like scythe of the wretched because, while awesome, they really incentivize people to kill kaervek since it transforms him from a tool for board control useful to everyone, to a tool for my own power consolidation useful mostly to me. That said I could still use stuff that's a little more obliquely enhancing, such as repercussion, burning sands, and death pits of rath, as well as the enticing possibility of helm of the host, although that might get a little too threatening very very quickly.
Naturally protecting him is still important, although I do want to consider paying more attention to recursion as an option. In particular, volrath's stronghold is an easy way to ensure that he doesn't balloon in cost and saves me from needing to commit to being able to cast him for 11, 13, or 15 mana, which could get rather difficult if people are blowing up artifacts with any regularity.
Tutors are going to be really important too, both to ensure I get useful enhancements reliably, and (in the case of demo/vamp/seal/gamble/etc) the option to hit fast mana more reliably and effectively count as extra ramp spells - demo is functionally a 2-mana sol ring thanks to mana crypt, for example, so that greatly increases the chances of casting kaervek t3-4, while still being good draws when I've stuck him and want to make him stronger or more durable. I'm looking at tutors mostly as either the really cheap ones, which double as efficient ramp, and the more expensive ones that can take advantage of my big mana to get a host of lategame power, such as diabolic revelation. Between those two extremes I don't think there's much point.
So all that looks pretty similar to my previous list, but then we're down to the section for simple "control" cards and "cards I like", and those two sections I'm interested in applying the most scrutiny to.
I think there is some value to having targeted removal, since the current rules prevent me from using kaervek directly as removal except in specific situations. The removal does let me exercise control over the board unhindered by political restraints. But, I also think as I transition this from a "social experiment" to a more fully-fleshed deck, I want more avenues to success than just Kaervek himself. So, what sort of cards should I be looking for?
Well, I'm open to suggestions, but right now I'm focusing on a few primary categories - the first is rather straightforward game-closer-outers, like insurrection and comet storm, which are basically there to just finish what Kaervek started by killing off those last few life points. The downside to these is that they feel a bit cheap, to me, and also don't really provide an alternative game plan to Kaervek, just an enhancement of the existing one. If Kaervek fails to stick, or if someone pulls off a combo that gives them a hundred or more life rendering direct damage ineffectual as a tactic, both of my strategies are going to be neutered simultaneously and leave me with not much of anything. So that's kind of a problem. There are some cards, like Sorin Markov, that aim to solve this problem by basically forcing Kaervek to become relevant again instead, though. So there are a few angles to try this tactic from.
The second category is something I'm calling "army of one" cards, which are basically just very flexible cards that aren't obviously threatening but can do a lot of work in various ways. Best example I have for this camp is mirage mirror, which can sometimes be better as a single permanent than several very powerful permanents owned by opponents, but is still only really threatening because of other threatening things. So it gives me a powerful tool on the field without necessarily drawing a lot of hate. Another classic of the genre is mimic vat, although it's more hateable since it can't be neutralized by removing another mirrored threat like mirage mirror can, and because it's just a lot easier to kill than mirage mirror. Other cards include Chaos Wand, Avarice Totem, and Captivating Crew. There's also cards like Olivia Voldaren that might fit in here, although she's certainly very threatening and can't really fly under the radar like mirage mirror can, same for dark imposter and nezumi graverobber. So I'm still sort of figuring out how I want to define this category and what sorts of cards I want to try in it. But safe to say mirage mirror is making it in. I love that freaking card.
The one last kind of card I want to mention is cards that aim to more effectively trap my opponents in a situation where they can't do anything without killing themselves, which has always been a funny way to win with Kaervek for me. Cards like spellshock and manabarbs for instance. The main reason I think I want to avoid these is that they largely disincentivize casting spells, which is not what I want. I want people casting spells to their hearts content, while Kaervek quickly burns down their life totals. But their spells have to be burning down OTHER people's life totals, or they wouldn't want to cast them. If they're taking damage from manabarbs at the same time they're shooting someone else, suddenly casting a spell is a lot less of an obvious positive for them, and the more I look like a problem. These cards work great in a 1v1 game, but I don't think I want cards exclusively for that - if I did, probably easier to just use the aforementioned burn spells to close things out.
Anyway, that's my ramblings. I'll be doing more work on this tomorrow and hopefully have something thrown together, although I imagine I'll keep tinkering with it for a bit before I commit to a perma-decklist. I hope it's as fun as I remember it being.
runechanter's pike
I've used this in all of my commander-centered control decks (Talrand, Pheldagriff, Tasigur). Can usually turn any commander into a 2-3 turn clock
blazing shoal
helps speed up the clock if you gotta beat down with your commander for the win while also clearing out a blocker or goin to the dome
Hey, glad you like the deck! Unfortunately, I think you misread Kaervek, though - he only counts enemy spells, so although I definitely hope my opponents cast spells like soul spike, it doesn't do me a lot of good to focus on high cmc spells. I wish, though, that'd make it way easier to abuse my commander.
Runechanters is definitely a way to close out games for Phelddagrif, but I'm probably going to be reducing the number of instants and sorceries in the deck with my newest incarnation (me? reducing the number of instants? impossible), so I doubt it'll be reasonable (also of course Kaervek doesn't have Phelddagrif's excellent flamply evasion, so even if pike gave him a big boost it'd still be fairly easy to block).
Ogre is a maybe, although thinking about the way the deck aims to curve out, I think it's probably worse than sisay's ring, although with the lifelink in the deck maybe it's better than I'm giving it credit for. I'll see how the ramp section is looking when I get there.
I don't think it makes sense here. Getting zombies is pretty useless to me, and discard is kind of the opposite of what I'm about. Setting to 4 is great, but it's a really slow way to do that. And also, it's not something I'd usually want to do until the game was nearly over. Sorin works much better as a way to do this, since it cuts out the long delay and removes most of the opportunity to interact, even if he sets the life total a little higher.
Hey, glad you like the deck! Unfortunately, I think you misread Kaervek, though - he only counts enemy spells, so although I definitely hope my opponents cast spells like soul spike, it doesn't do me a lot of good to focus on high cmc spells. I wish, though, that'd make it way easier to abuse my commander.
Yea. I totally started thinking about Vial Smasher value cards. It was late at night.
Headgames - fill an opponents hand with answers that ultimately help you. I just personally love playing this in any black build
grafted exoskeleton - could be a viable win con. would limit your 1v1 opponents spell casting to 10 cmc tops. They have 10 cmc to answer it while you can also swing in with Kaervek. There's a decent voltron package here already. This may be how you get around life gain combos also.
Headgames
fill an opponents hand with answers that ultimately help you. I just personally love playing this in any black build
grafted exoskeleton
could be a viable win con. would limit your 1v1 opponents spell casting to 10 cmc tops. They have 10 cmc to answer it while you can also swing in with Kaervek. There's a decent voltron package here already. This may be how you get around life gain combos also.
Cards I considered, but I decided against them (although I could change my mind, who knows). Except Bedevil, Bedevil seems good, and that's in there.
Captive audience, as mentioned, seems like a slower version of Sorin to me. I have a hard time thinking of a play pattern where it's remotely as good as Sorin - if it's pre-1v1, then it's basically a declaration of war against one opponent, since once they're set to 4, especially if Kaervek is on board, they're basically guaranteed dead. So they're heavily incentivized to kill Kaervek, kill me, or kill the enchantment before that happens. The goal of the deck is to use Kaervek in a political way to drive down life totals and control the board - putting captive audience on them is unlikely to leave them wanting to play nice with me. In 1v1 it's a lot better, but it's still pretty slow, and I generally shy away from cards that are only intended for the 1v1 part of the game. Also the other two modes are kind of mediocre for me, imo. If after testing, Sorin is the bees knees then maybe I'll consider branching out with audience or torgaar, famine incarnate.
Strionic I think is just a little underwhelming. Compare to gratuitous violence that requires no extra mana and doubles all damage, not just a single cast trigger. I've already got a lot of enhancers right now, I think Strionic would be excessive.
Headgames could be added for sure. I much prefer it over discard since you can stock enemy hands with big boms that make Kaervek shine. Still, it doesn't feel like it accomplishes a core part of the strategy of the deck, so for now it's out. I could see adding it to the "alt wincons" section if some of those underperform, although that's kind of a stretch for what it actually does.
grafted exoskeleton I think I like less than glistening oil as a way to give kaervek infect. Maybe I'm a little too gun-shy about the "grafted" clause that makes our commander dead to artifact removal, but it always scares me off. Granted, oil can get 2-for-1ed as well if kaervek gets killed out from under it while it's on the stack, but it doesn't make kaervek himself vulnerable to more things.
All that said, I should probably try infect, but I'm kind of skeptical. Firstly, people tend to freak out about it, making us a potentially major threat before we've even dealt any infect damage. I'm also really nervous about tactics that leave me attacking along a different avenue than damage - whether that's infect, mill, or even to a certain extent commander damage, because it means that (1) you can't piggy back of other peoples' efforts unless they're using the same avenues, and (2) it sets you up to be a singular problem for opponents. I'll explain - if someone is at low life and Kaervek is on board, people will naturally want to kill him, but they can't ignore other threats that could also kill them, which takes heat off Kaervek. Whereas if he's dealing infect damage and no one else is (which they probably aren't) and someone is almost to 10 poison, they're going to prioritize killing Kaervek above anything else, because he's the only thing threatening to kill them in this way. Non-infect creatures aren't a problem for them, so they won't consider them as alternative removal targets and will focus on Kaervek - and by extension, the person playing Kaervek, namely me.
I think Sorin is probably best(?) option for preventing lifegain from getting out of control, although of course Kaervek can just beatdown for 21 damage, especially with Shizo, Gratuitous Violence, and equipment at his beck and call. If lifegain becomes a major issue I could revisit but for now those are my two backup plans if someone gains too much life.
Great explanations for why infect or Captive Audience aren't ideal. Makes sense. So with Sorin would it be more ideal to be looking to put the 1v1 opponent to 10 and burn or swing for the win or to control their turn and cast their spells into Kaervek triggers for the win?
praetor's grasp over Chaos Wand? What kind of spell would you be looking to hit with the wand?
I used to run avarice totem a lot, way too much I'm sure (back in like 2010 or so, my early days of commander). Haven't run it in a long time, but I think it really shines here for 3 reasons:
-We get to fairly high mana pretty quickly (obviously aiming for 7 but 10 isn't far off, which is usually how much you want to start toteming).
-We have plenty of low-impact cards to trade off (all the 2-drop mana rocks).
-Maybe most importantly, once Kaervek is on the field, we oftentimes don't have much useful to do with all our mana. So having a mana sink like totem gives us something really impactful to do with that mana.
So yeah, I'm excited to give it for a spin after all these years. Soul conduit is a new inclusion, but I think it can be really tricky to play around, I recall getting wrecked by it at the prerelease, funny enough, which in fairness was before I was any good at limited. But I think Kaervek especially plays nicely with it so I'm eager to give it a shot.
Chaos wand is mostly just a card I think is sweet and does the whole toolbox thing (albeit one where you aren't sure which tool you're pulling out). Praetor's grasp is a really reasonable inclusion as an effective 4-mana rock hitting sol ring, but the BB requirement is steep enough that I cut it. I think it's totally reasonable, obviously like all tutors it has the benefit of hitting higher-impact stuff as the situation demands, but the fact that it doesn't fix mana does limit it a fair bit. But yeah, a totally reasonable card to include. I just had to cut something.
Of course how Sorin works best is going to vary. If you've got a good attack, take the good attack. I don't think you can feel confident that Kaervek triggers will kill someone, they could easily enough have STP in hand and deal with him easily, so always take an opportunity if you've got it. Especially since, if they use their stp to kill him on attack you could potentially recast him, which won't work if they stp him eot (although presumably you already cast sorin in the same turn, so maybe it's a pipe dream to pay 10BBBBR+ in one turn).
Any thought towards diversifying your ramp package? Wayfarer's Bauble and Burnished Hart seem like easy upgrades for some of your weaker mana rocks like Prismatic Lens (you seem fine on making coloured mana and its bad at doing even that) and Thought Vessel (I think I see one card in your deck that can generate in-hand card advantage, and its Hedron Archive).
I recognize that Bauble/Hart are slightly less efficient and may disrupt your curve, but considering about 90% of your deck is artifacts/enchantments, I think every small step you can make to avoid being straight up out of the game to a Vandalblast or Bane of Progress will increase your win percentage quite a bit. I'll also mention Solemn Simulacrum, but considering how badly it curves with the rest of your deck, as well as your low basic count, it's probably not worth it.
Chrome Mox exacts a heavy toll and you're not exactly busting out the gates. Gilded Lotus?
As good as mox is, the high density of artifacts is a major downside, especially since a lot of the tutors represent mana crypt/sol ring and thus aren't worth exiling to mox usually. So that might get cut. Maybe I'll toss in jeweled amulet or something.
I don't think lotus makes sense, though. In terms of my curve, once I'm at at 5 I only need 2 more to cast Kaervek, or one more if I hit a land drop on the next turn. The goal (assuming I'm not lucky enough to draw fast mana) is T2 play a 1-mana rock, T3 play a 2 mana rock, then play kaervek on turn 4. Lotus doesn't fit into that curve at all.
Any thought towards diversifying your ramp package? Wayfarer's Bauble and Burnished Hart seem like easy upgrades for some of your weaker mana rocks like Prismatic Lens (you seem fine on making coloured mana and its bad at doing even that) and Thought Vessel (I think I see one card in your deck that can generate in-hand card advantage, and its Hedron Archive).
I recognize that Bauble/Hart are slightly less efficient and may disrupt your curve, but considering about 90% of your deck is artifacts/enchantments, I think every small step you can make to avoid being straight up out of the game to a Vandalblast or Bane of Progress will increase your win percentage quite a bit. I'll also mention Solemn Simulacrum, but considering how badly it curves with the rest of your deck, as well as your low basic count, it's probably not worth it.
Bauble was one of my last cuts, and maybe it should go back in. In the play pattern mentioned above, it works fine as a T2 rock, but only if I have it T1 and none of my lands etbt. Outside of that, it's a 3 mana "rock" that etbts, which is pretty awful. But may it's worth the diversification, idk.
Hart I don't like because it really doesn't fit into that play pattern, at all. If it's on its own it's not that bad though - t3 play it, turn 4 sac it, turn 5 kaervek assuming no missed land drops. But it basically has no ability to curve with other rocks except fast mana, so you're getting T5 kaervek at the absolute fastest if you're playing hart. So it seems like the sort of thing that would fit better into a "well-rounded" version of the deck that's less all-in on Kaervek.
Also worth pointing out that, although we do run a ton of artifacts, we run about the same number of lands. I think the deck is equally, if not more, screwed by armageddon.
I did win a game last night through a vandalblast. I think the key is volrath's stronghold - it enables us to keep Kaervek at a reasonable cost. Hitting 13 mana without artifacts is difficult, but hitting 7 isn't a problem, and the artifacts can serve as a stopgap until we get there.
Gilded Lotus makes a ton of sense. Your deck cares about playing really expensive spells and has a 7 cmc general. I can see it fitting in much better than Heartless Summoning because you only have 1 creature in your deck and it doesn't help you cast or activate anything.
How come you use "curve" to justify not including Lotus because...I mean, if describing your curve as playing 2cc rocks, to curve into playing 4cc rocks, your deck doesn't have a good looking curve. I read about how you're playing the triggers off of Kaervek. But enough players have got to realize that a Fireball attached to every spell 2 opponents play is not good for them right? So Kaervek does die enough that you're saying Volrath's Stronghold is sort of a pseudo-Command Beacon for you. Seems like the kind of deck that could use a Gilded Lotus.
Since you're not trying to jump out the gate, cards like Chrome Mox (->Lotus) and Gemstone Caverns (->Command Beacon) just seem out of place to me.
If you're going to play Jeweled Amulet, how come you cut Molten Slagheap?
But I'm definitely with you on Burnished Hart. That card is just horrible. 6 mana to get two lands tapped. And if you cast it and activate it on separate turns, you're at huge risk. I see every card being a premium here, hence why I don't like Chrome Mox and Gemstone Cavern. Also agree with the sentiment that Armageddon is harder than Vandalblast. You run the right amount of lands. Just playing a land drop each turn for 9 turns is underrated. You can't play around every card and Vandalblast isn't worth playing around here.
Also, if you're going to want players to go after each other would you play Cruel Entertainment?
Typically kaervek does not eat immediate removal, believe it or not. This has held true across 3 playgroups. Sometimes people play nice with the triggers for a bit, but they usually decide to start exploiting him at some point.
Even if he eats removal immediately, though, gilded lotus is meh. Cast on 7, gilded lotus on 8, recast on 9...you didn't need the lotus if you hit land drops. And I think ugin is the only thing above cmc 7. It just doesn't fit the curve.
I am definitely trying to jump out of the gate. Having kaervek out ASAP is sweet. I may cut mox because of the lack of options to imprint, but I think caverns is great. It only takes a card if you start with it, in which case it's awesome.
Molten slagheap doesn't enable good starts. If I have room to charge it before turn 5, something bad happened, and it takes 2 charges before getting anywhere. Amulet enables t2 worn powerstone, for example. Not amazing but much more conducive to getting 7 mana ASAP.
Not a fan of cruel entertainment. 7 mana and you have to hope your opponents decide to screw each other rather than play nice for a turn, plus they might just use the opportunity to attack you and target your stuff rather than their opponent's. It's a garbage meme card, imo.
- We would have hella mana rocks in play to sac to pull of the lose 10 life win-con part
- rip a big comet storm or exanguinate off the top of our library and pay lots of life to win (I think this works)
- its black future sight and has value during the game not just as a win con. Paired with divining top we can dig for removal or board wipes to rip of the top of our library paying life instead of mana.
There are a few restrictions, of course - if you're casting a spell I don't like (i.e. something that screws me over personally), I choose the targets, and I choose you, pikachu. You also can't request that Kaervek target me, my creatures (exceptions for non-lethal damage where I don't suspect a follow-up), or anything that I have strong reason not to want to target (i.e. a player with no no mercy or a phyrexian obliterator). If you decline to choose a target, I will target you or your creatures, whichever hurts more. And of course, if I'm about to win or lose, I'm going to do what needs to be done.
The list is basically just dedicated to getting kaervek into play ASAP, enhancing his abilities, and then protecting him at all costs.
Here's the list.
1 Kaervek the Merciless
Ramp
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Mind Stone
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Palladium Myr
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Ur-Golem's Eye
1 Coalition Relic
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Grim Monolith
1 Thought Vessel
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Sisay's Ring
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Fractured Powerstone
1 Kyren Toy
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
Enhancements
1 Gorgon's Head
1 Scythe of the Wretched
1 Gorgon Flail
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Neko-Te
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boosts
1 Champion's Helm
1 Darksteel Plate
Tutor
1 Ring of Three Wishes
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Gamble
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
Control
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Volcanic Offering
1 Cut // Ribbons
1 Terminate
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 All Is Dust
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Go for the Throat
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Dismember
1 Necromantic Selection
1 Snuff Out
1 Damnation
1 Decree of Pain
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Victim of Night
1 Curtain's Call
Other cards I just like
1 Reiterate
1 Phyrexian Arena
7 Fetches
1 Smoldering Marsh
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Canyon Slough
1 Temple of Malice
1 Molten Slagheap
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Graven Cairns
1 Forboding Ruins
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Command Tower
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
6 Swamp
3 Mountain
So far the deck is 2-0, both games people pummeled each other to low life, then gratuitous violence screwed up their math and left them unable to cast spells without dying. At first people were hesitant to use Kaervek (first guy targeted himself just to avoid pissing anyone else off, I guess?) but pretty soon he became a potent control tool for keeping the board under control, with little hate directed at me personally. Success!
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Whoever casts the spell, chooses the targets, unless:
-the spell screws me over
-the choice of kaervek target screws me over
-it's the end of the game (1v1 or about to be)
So far the rules have worked very well. There are a few factors that really make them shine. A big one is that it makes people less hesitant to cast spells. One big weakness Kaervek has, I think, is that people will just stop casting spells until they can kill him, for fear that you'll use their spells to kill their own creatures (or them). So even if the rule was simply "I won't target you with your own spell's trigger" then that would largely do the same thing. That said, I think the blame that people can assign to his trigger being displaced onto the other opponents can be a fairly big deal too.
This deck's winrate has been quite high even for me (something like 70-80%). In a few cases that was due to simply being too powerful for the table, but mostly it was a pretty fair fight, with people simply getting trapped at the end by kaervek's ability and an inability to cast spells without killing themselves.
This is probably in the pantheon of my favorite decks I've ever built - I've kept it together for over a month now, so that's certainly something. It's political-ish, but it still plays a fairly fast game since Kaervek is constantly murdering life totals. He also keeps the game reasonably in check, since everyone has removal stapled onto all of their spells.
Whether I'll actually add it to my permanent collection is a little trickier - the manabase can be budgetified, as can the synergy pieces, but the density of tutors and mana rocks has proven pretty critical, and some of those are way past any reasonable budget. Main concerns would be mana crypt, grim monolith, imperial seal, and grim tutor (which I just realized is not in this list so I must have updated a little). Hitting a mana crypt or sol ring T1-2 is hugely valuable, and losing seal, crypt, and monolith drastically reduces those odds. Grim tutor has more frequently fetched my heavy hitters like gratuitous violence and basilisk collar, and could more easily be replaced.I don't think I'd want to run any symmetrical damage doublers, the risks are too high. I played against a dictate once and it went in my favor, but I don't think I'd dedicate a card to it. Havoc festival is not really under consideration, I think it makes it too easy for opponents to finish me off, and a little too chaotic (not the sort of thing likely to improve a 70%+ winrate). Sharpshooter is cute, but the intent of the deck is to focus on the commander, and besides, he only presents a must-answer target that pushes more attention onto me and makes people less likely to play spells. Kaervek wants other people to play scary creatures, so that he becomes a necessary part of the solution, and so they run out of juice.
I don't know what you mean by "politicking never works". The intention of "the rules" here is to alter people's decision making by changing how kaervek works. Without the rules, people tend to get worried that casting spells is going to be bad for them, and thus abstain until kaervek is gone. With the rules and the guarantee* that their own stuff won't be targeted, they have no reason to hold back on casting spells, and thus giving kaervek value - as long as people accept that kaervek is following "the rules", they WILL alter their decision making, even if the only difference is that they cast their other spells BEFORE they kill Kaervek. Is that politics? Arguably. The only way I could see it "not working" is if people refuse to choose a target (which seems pointlessly suicidal - it's happened once or twice, but always very temporarily - as soon as an opponent has something they want dead, they're quick to choose it as a target) or if they just always kill kaervek on sight regardless, which seems like more of a power level issue than a politics-not-working one.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Kaervek is sometimes prone to removal (hence all the protection and ramp) but I've never had people stop casting spells until it's the end of the game and they're screwed. I'm confused as to how you think your meta would react to Kaervek. Kill him on sight? I mean, that can happen, but should theoretically only happen if he's the most powerful thing on the board, in which case the solution is to wait until he isn't or until you can protect him adequately. Also, once he's got deathtouch etc equipped, he becomes much harder to remove, as any removal will result in him killing your favorite creature.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
WUBSente: The Politics and Metaphor of Stones
My Vampire Hunter Kit Innistrad Themed Cube!
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
Definitely agree about it creating feuds. Deflecting blame is a big part of why this deck is as awesome as I think it is. You get 90% of the power of kaervek, with 20% of the blame. And it's one of the few decks I've built that I really like and also ends the game on a pretty reasonable time scale. It interacts really well against the classic ramp/draw/bomb strategy that most people employ.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Anyway, so right now I'm in the middle of working out a revised list, and I'm mostly thinking about what sorts of cards I want to include.
Ramp is a given. He's a 7-mana commander. I think we need to aggressively target a T4 cast without fast mana, meaning t2 rock, t3 bigger rock, t4 kaervek - and of course faster if I hit fast mana. This also means a hefty land count since we probably can't afford to miss a land drop until at least turn 5, and ideally we'd land at least a few more to recover if he's killed, and to shore us up if artifacts get wiped.
Enhancements are obviously a big part of the fun, the main ones being deathtouch and double damage. I think in general we'll want to stay away from enhancements like scythe of the wretched because, while awesome, they really incentivize people to kill kaervek since it transforms him from a tool for board control useful to everyone, to a tool for my own power consolidation useful mostly to me. That said I could still use stuff that's a little more obliquely enhancing, such as repercussion, burning sands, and death pits of rath, as well as the enticing possibility of helm of the host, although that might get a little too threatening very very quickly.
Naturally protecting him is still important, although I do want to consider paying more attention to recursion as an option. In particular, volrath's stronghold is an easy way to ensure that he doesn't balloon in cost and saves me from needing to commit to being able to cast him for 11, 13, or 15 mana, which could get rather difficult if people are blowing up artifacts with any regularity.
Tutors are going to be really important too, both to ensure I get useful enhancements reliably, and (in the case of demo/vamp/seal/gamble/etc) the option to hit fast mana more reliably and effectively count as extra ramp spells - demo is functionally a 2-mana sol ring thanks to mana crypt, for example, so that greatly increases the chances of casting kaervek t3-4, while still being good draws when I've stuck him and want to make him stronger or more durable. I'm looking at tutors mostly as either the really cheap ones, which double as efficient ramp, and the more expensive ones that can take advantage of my big mana to get a host of lategame power, such as diabolic revelation. Between those two extremes I don't think there's much point.
So all that looks pretty similar to my previous list, but then we're down to the section for simple "control" cards and "cards I like", and those two sections I'm interested in applying the most scrutiny to.
I think there is some value to having targeted removal, since the current rules prevent me from using kaervek directly as removal except in specific situations. The removal does let me exercise control over the board unhindered by political restraints. But, I also think as I transition this from a "social experiment" to a more fully-fleshed deck, I want more avenues to success than just Kaervek himself. So, what sort of cards should I be looking for?
Well, I'm open to suggestions, but right now I'm focusing on a few primary categories - the first is rather straightforward game-closer-outers, like insurrection and comet storm, which are basically there to just finish what Kaervek started by killing off those last few life points. The downside to these is that they feel a bit cheap, to me, and also don't really provide an alternative game plan to Kaervek, just an enhancement of the existing one. If Kaervek fails to stick, or if someone pulls off a combo that gives them a hundred or more life rendering direct damage ineffectual as a tactic, both of my strategies are going to be neutered simultaneously and leave me with not much of anything. So that's kind of a problem. There are some cards, like Sorin Markov, that aim to solve this problem by basically forcing Kaervek to become relevant again instead, though. So there are a few angles to try this tactic from.
The second category is something I'm calling "army of one" cards, which are basically just very flexible cards that aren't obviously threatening but can do a lot of work in various ways. Best example I have for this camp is mirage mirror, which can sometimes be better as a single permanent than several very powerful permanents owned by opponents, but is still only really threatening because of other threatening things. So it gives me a powerful tool on the field without necessarily drawing a lot of hate. Another classic of the genre is mimic vat, although it's more hateable since it can't be neutralized by removing another mirrored threat like mirage mirror can, and because it's just a lot easier to kill than mirage mirror. Other cards include Chaos Wand, Avarice Totem, and Captivating Crew. There's also cards like Olivia Voldaren that might fit in here, although she's certainly very threatening and can't really fly under the radar like mirage mirror can, same for dark imposter and nezumi graverobber. So I'm still sort of figuring out how I want to define this category and what sorts of cards I want to try in it. But safe to say mirage mirror is making it in. I love that freaking card.
The one last kind of card I want to mention is cards that aim to more effectively trap my opponents in a situation where they can't do anything without killing themselves, which has always been a funny way to win with Kaervek for me. Cards like spellshock and manabarbs for instance. The main reason I think I want to avoid these is that they largely disincentivize casting spells, which is not what I want. I want people casting spells to their hearts content, while Kaervek quickly burns down their life totals. But their spells have to be burning down OTHER people's life totals, or they wouldn't want to cast them. If they're taking damage from manabarbs at the same time they're shooting someone else, suddenly casting a spell is a lot less of an obvious positive for them, and the more I look like a problem. These cards work great in a 1v1 game, but I don't think I want cards exclusively for that - if I did, probably easier to just use the aforementioned burn spells to close things out.
Anyway, that's my ramblings. I'll be doing more work on this tomorrow and hopefully have something thrown together, although I imagine I'll keep tinkering with it for a bit before I commit to a perma-decklist. I hope it's as fun as I remember it being.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
edit. Somehow I mixed Kaervek's ability & Vial Smasher's together in my mind.
Some cards for consideration:
Evoke spells:
shriekmaw
ingot chewer
spitebellows
all cheap control pieces that can also do large chunks of damage
big damage value spells:
Flame Javelin
10 total damage for RRR
pyrokinesis
soul spike
10+ damage without paying any mana for each spell
runechanter's pike
I've used this in all of my commander-centered control decks (Talrand, Pheldagriff, Tasigur). Can usually turn any commander into a 2-3 turn clock
blazing shoalhelps speed up the clock if you gotta beat down with your commander for the win while also clearing out a blocker or goin to the dome
treasonous ogre
as ramp
Runechanters is definitely a way to close out games for Phelddagrif, but I'm probably going to be reducing the number of instants and sorceries in the deck with my newest incarnation (me? reducing the number of instants? impossible), so I doubt it'll be reasonable (also of course Kaervek doesn't have Phelddagrif's excellent flamply evasion, so even if pike gave him a big boost it'd still be fairly easy to block).
Ogre is a maybe, although thinking about the way the deck aims to curve out, I think it's probably worse than sisay's ring, although with the lifelink in the deck maybe it's better than I'm giving it credit for. I'll see how the ramp section is looking when I get there.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
1 Kaervek the Merciless
Tutors (7)
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Expedition Map
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Gamble
Alt wincons (8)
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Sorin Markov
1 Soul Conduit
1 Reiterate
1 Mimic Vat
1 Chaos Wand
1 Mirage Mirror
1 Avarice Totem
Ramp (24)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Chrome Mox
1 Heartless Summoning
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Mind Stone
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Thought Vessel
1 grim monolith
1 charcoal diamond
1 Fire Diamond
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Hedron Archive
1 Coalition Relic
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Sisay's Ring
1 Ur-Golem's Eye
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Champion's Helm
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot boots
1 Null Brooch
1 Gorgon Flail
1 Gorgon's Head
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Deadly Wanderings
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Helm of the Host
1 Wound Reflection
1 Repercussion
Removal (8)
1 Ugin
1 All is Dust
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Chaos Warp
1 Bedevil
1 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Cut // Ribbons
Lands (39)
1 Luxury Suite
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Volrath's Stronghold
7 fetchlands
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Graven Cairns
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Forboding Ruins
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Command Tower
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Arch or Orazca
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Gemstone Caverns
2 Mountain
4 Swamp
I don't think it makes sense here. Getting zombies is pretty useless to me, and discard is kind of the opposite of what I'm about. Setting to 4 is great, but it's a really slow way to do that. And also, it's not something I'd usually want to do until the game was nearly over. Sorin works much better as a way to do this, since it cuts out the long delay and removes most of the opportunity to interact, even if he sets the life total a little higher.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Yea. I totally started thinking about Vial Smasher value cards. It was late at night.
Captive Audience does look good here
Strionic Resonator - offering double triggers as a favor
Headgames - fill an opponents hand with answers that ultimately help you. I just personally love playing this in any black build
grafted exoskeleton - could be a viable win con. would limit your 1v1 opponents spell casting to 10 cmc tops. They have 10 cmc to answer it while you can also swing in with Kaervek. There's a decent voltron package here already. This may be how you get around life gain combos also.
Captive audience, as mentioned, seems like a slower version of Sorin to me. I have a hard time thinking of a play pattern where it's remotely as good as Sorin - if it's pre-1v1, then it's basically a declaration of war against one opponent, since once they're set to 4, especially if Kaervek is on board, they're basically guaranteed dead. So they're heavily incentivized to kill Kaervek, kill me, or kill the enchantment before that happens. The goal of the deck is to use Kaervek in a political way to drive down life totals and control the board - putting captive audience on them is unlikely to leave them wanting to play nice with me. In 1v1 it's a lot better, but it's still pretty slow, and I generally shy away from cards that are only intended for the 1v1 part of the game. Also the other two modes are kind of mediocre for me, imo. If after testing, Sorin is the bees knees then maybe I'll consider branching out with audience or torgaar, famine incarnate.
Strionic I think is just a little underwhelming. Compare to gratuitous violence that requires no extra mana and doubles all damage, not just a single cast trigger. I've already got a lot of enhancers right now, I think Strionic would be excessive.
Headgames could be added for sure. I much prefer it over discard since you can stock enemy hands with big boms that make Kaervek shine. Still, it doesn't feel like it accomplishes a core part of the strategy of the deck, so for now it's out. I could see adding it to the "alt wincons" section if some of those underperform, although that's kind of a stretch for what it actually does.
grafted exoskeleton I think I like less than glistening oil as a way to give kaervek infect. Maybe I'm a little too gun-shy about the "grafted" clause that makes our commander dead to artifact removal, but it always scares me off. Granted, oil can get 2-for-1ed as well if kaervek gets killed out from under it while it's on the stack, but it doesn't make kaervek himself vulnerable to more things.
All that said, I should probably try infect, but I'm kind of skeptical. Firstly, people tend to freak out about it, making us a potentially major threat before we've even dealt any infect damage. I'm also really nervous about tactics that leave me attacking along a different avenue than damage - whether that's infect, mill, or even to a certain extent commander damage, because it means that (1) you can't piggy back of other peoples' efforts unless they're using the same avenues, and (2) it sets you up to be a singular problem for opponents. I'll explain - if someone is at low life and Kaervek is on board, people will naturally want to kill him, but they can't ignore other threats that could also kill them, which takes heat off Kaervek. Whereas if he's dealing infect damage and no one else is (which they probably aren't) and someone is almost to 10 poison, they're going to prioritize killing Kaervek above anything else, because he's the only thing threatening to kill them in this way. Non-infect creatures aren't a problem for them, so they won't consider them as alternative removal targets and will focus on Kaervek - and by extension, the person playing Kaervek, namely me.
I think Sorin is probably best(?) option for preventing lifegain from getting out of control, although of course Kaervek can just beatdown for 21 damage, especially with Shizo, Gratuitous Violence, and equipment at his beck and call. If lifegain becomes a major issue I could revisit but for now those are my two backup plans if someone gains too much life.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
praetor's grasp over Chaos Wand? What kind of spell would you be looking to hit with the wand?
ps I love Avarice Totem & Soul Conduit in the new build
-We get to fairly high mana pretty quickly (obviously aiming for 7 but 10 isn't far off, which is usually how much you want to start toteming).
-We have plenty of low-impact cards to trade off (all the 2-drop mana rocks).
-Maybe most importantly, once Kaervek is on the field, we oftentimes don't have much useful to do with all our mana. So having a mana sink like totem gives us something really impactful to do with that mana.
So yeah, I'm excited to give it for a spin after all these years. Soul conduit is a new inclusion, but I think it can be really tricky to play around, I recall getting wrecked by it at the prerelease, funny enough, which in fairness was before I was any good at limited. But I think Kaervek especially plays nicely with it so I'm eager to give it a shot.
Chaos wand is mostly just a card I think is sweet and does the whole toolbox thing (albeit one where you aren't sure which tool you're pulling out). Praetor's grasp is a really reasonable inclusion as an effective 4-mana rock hitting sol ring, but the BB requirement is steep enough that I cut it. I think it's totally reasonable, obviously like all tutors it has the benefit of hitting higher-impact stuff as the situation demands, but the fact that it doesn't fix mana does limit it a fair bit. But yeah, a totally reasonable card to include. I just had to cut something.
Of course how Sorin works best is going to vary. If you've got a good attack, take the good attack. I don't think you can feel confident that Kaervek triggers will kill someone, they could easily enough have STP in hand and deal with him easily, so always take an opportunity if you've got it. Especially since, if they use their stp to kill him on attack you could potentially recast him, which won't work if they stp him eot (although presumably you already cast sorin in the same turn, so maybe it's a pipe dream to pay 10BBBBR+ in one turn).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I recognize that Bauble/Hart are slightly less efficient and may disrupt your curve, but considering about 90% of your deck is artifacts/enchantments, I think every small step you can make to avoid being straight up out of the game to a Vandalblast or Bane of Progress will increase your win percentage quite a bit. I'll also mention Solemn Simulacrum, but considering how badly it curves with the rest of your deck, as well as your low basic count, it's probably not worth it.
I don't think lotus makes sense, though. In terms of my curve, once I'm at at 5 I only need 2 more to cast Kaervek, or one more if I hit a land drop on the next turn. The goal (assuming I'm not lucky enough to draw fast mana) is T2 play a 1-mana rock, T3 play a 2 mana rock, then play kaervek on turn 4. Lotus doesn't fit into that curve at all.Bauble was one of my last cuts, and maybe it should go back in. In the play pattern mentioned above, it works fine as a T2 rock, but only if I have it T1 and none of my lands etbt. Outside of that, it's a 3 mana "rock" that etbts, which is pretty awful. But may it's worth the diversification, idk.
Hart I don't like because it really doesn't fit into that play pattern, at all. If it's on its own it's not that bad though - t3 play it, turn 4 sac it, turn 5 kaervek assuming no missed land drops. But it basically has no ability to curve with other rocks except fast mana, so you're getting T5 kaervek at the absolute fastest if you're playing hart. So it seems like the sort of thing that would fit better into a "well-rounded" version of the deck that's less all-in on Kaervek.
Also worth pointing out that, although we do run a ton of artifacts, we run about the same number of lands. I think the deck is equally, if not more, screwed by armageddon.
I did win a game last night through a vandalblast. I think the key is volrath's stronghold - it enables us to keep Kaervek at a reasonable cost. Hitting 13 mana without artifacts is difficult, but hitting 7 isn't a problem, and the artifacts can serve as a stopgap until we get there.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
How come you use "curve" to justify not including Lotus because...I mean, if describing your curve as playing 2cc rocks, to curve into playing 4cc rocks, your deck doesn't have a good looking curve. I read about how you're playing the triggers off of Kaervek. But enough players have got to realize that a Fireball attached to every spell 2 opponents play is not good for them right? So Kaervek does die enough that you're saying Volrath's Stronghold is sort of a pseudo-Command Beacon for you. Seems like the kind of deck that could use a Gilded Lotus.
Since you're not trying to jump out the gate, cards like Chrome Mox (->Lotus) and Gemstone Caverns (->Command Beacon) just seem out of place to me.
If you're going to play Jeweled Amulet, how come you cut Molten Slagheap?
But I'm definitely with you on Burnished Hart. That card is just horrible. 6 mana to get two lands tapped. And if you cast it and activate it on separate turns, you're at huge risk. I see every card being a premium here, hence why I don't like Chrome Mox and Gemstone Cavern. Also agree with the sentiment that Armageddon is harder than Vandalblast. You run the right amount of lands. Just playing a land drop each turn for 9 turns is underrated. You can't play around every card and Vandalblast isn't worth playing around here.
Also, if you're going to want players to go after each other would you play Cruel Entertainment?
Even if he eats removal immediately, though, gilded lotus is meh. Cast on 7, gilded lotus on 8, recast on 9...you didn't need the lotus if you hit land drops. And I think ugin is the only thing above cmc 7. It just doesn't fit the curve.
I am definitely trying to jump out of the gate. Having kaervek out ASAP is sweet. I may cut mox because of the lack of options to imprint, but I think caverns is great. It only takes a card if you start with it, in which case it's awesome.
Molten slagheap doesn't enable good starts. If I have room to charge it before turn 5, something bad happened, and it takes 2 charges before getting anywhere. Amulet enables t2 worn powerstone, for example. Not amazing but much more conducive to getting 7 mana ASAP.
Not a fan of cruel entertainment. 7 mana and you have to hope your opponents decide to screw each other rather than play nice for a turn, plus they might just use the opportunity to attack you and target your stuff rather than their opponent's. It's a garbage meme card, imo.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
- We would have hella mana rocks in play to sac to pull of the lose 10 life win-con part
- rip a big comet storm or exanguinate off the top of our library and pay lots of life to win (I think this works)
- its black future sight and has value during the game not just as a win con. Paired with divining top we can dig for removal or board wipes to rip of the top of our library paying life instead of mana.