If this would always do it as a comes into play effect and cycle for cheaper, it would really be a thing.
As it is, it "might" see play, but its just fringe and not really the kind of card thats simply always great.
Clique was great as you could always play it, remove some form of threat from the opponent, or cycle a card of your own, while providing a relevant creature type for the time. It was simply "always" great, while this is just mediocre choose your fate card.
----
Not impressed, but this might still be a card for constructed, its not "terrible" , but for sure not great.
The card's text feels so blatantly like they tried to nerf it. The fact it can't stifle your own triggers and that it only stifles on a cycle really bothers me. Would love to see it as: "Whenever you cycle Nimble Obstructionist or whenever Nimble Obstructionist enters the battlefield, counter target activated or triggered ability". This is nothing more than almost Trickbind + Draw a card or a 3/1 flier for 3... except you can't counter triggered abilities you control. It just really bothers me.
To be clear, that wording doesn't work. Or, more specifically, it doesn't work the way people want it to. If you cycle this card without an ability on the stack, it will still trigger and you will need to choose a target. Unfortunately, that means the only target for its ability is its own Cycling ability which means if it could counter your activated or triggered abilities, it would always counter the cycling ability if someone was just trying to cycle it.
So basically, by making it say "you don't control" it lets you cycle the card without needing an opponent's ability on the stack (which would of course make this exponentially worse).
Now, Wizards could have just said "you may counter..." but they didn't and the text we have is fine and still gives us a more than playable card. My guess is that the latter wording just increases the chance for mis-clicks on MTGO and Wizards (rightfully) chose to eliminate that possibility.
Then have it be a may clause. The fact is there are certain situations where you'd want to counter your own triggered ability.
Let's be clear: I can't think of a blue 3/1 for 2U at any rarity. I sure as heck can't think of one with flying and flash at 3 mana.
But wait, there's more! We're giving up any pretense of fair costing by making it cycle for the same price; so it's either the most aggressive costed flyer with a freestifle, or it's a fairly costed cantrip stifle... at no additional cost.
I can't tell what's more annoying - Wizards rampant and unabashed power creep, or the incompetent way they're doing it. It really feels like it's not so much a decision "let's make a powerful card" as "let's throw a bunch of things against the wall. And then reduce the cost by 2."
No sir. No.
Edit: Oh, and by the way; despite the fact we have a high profile group of creatures with "Whenever you cycle x or it enters the battlefield" triggers, this won't have it. Feel free to run into players misreading the card due to our incompetent set design.
What? This doesn't have a free Stifle if you cast it. It is just a worse Vendilion Clique in that case.
As to your last point, what creatures do we have that trigger when you cycle them or when they enter? There are none in Amonkhet and I haven't seen any in HOU. It is possible I missed a spoiler somewhere, but I didn't see any in the spoiler list. As such, there doesn't seem to be any cycle (so far) to compare this to that would cause confusion.
There is a cycle that works like that... from Alara Reborn, 8 years ago. So not exactly something most players are going to get tripped up by.
Then have it be a may clause. The fact is there are certain situations where you'd want to counter your own triggered ability.
And Wizards very clearly removed that possibility, for several reasons. The first is, as others have noted, that it prevents misclicks in online play. The second is that (nearly) every single triggered ability you control that you would want to counter with this is something 'bad' added to the card to balance it. Wizards clearly doesn't want you to obviate the drawbacks of cards added for balance reasons, at least with this card.
It's very similar to how O-Ring effects have gradually specified hitting cards 'your opponents control'.
Let's be clear: I can't think of a blue 3/1 for 2U at any rarity. I sure as heck can't think of one with flying and flash at 3 mana.
But wait, there's more! We're giving up any pretense of fair costing by making it cycle for the same price; so it's either the most aggressive costed flyer with a freestifle, or it's a fairly costed cantrip stifle... at no additional cost.
I can't tell what's more annoying - Wizards rampant and unabashed power creep, or the incompetent way they're doing it. It really feels like it's not so much a decision "let's make a powerful card" as "let's throw a bunch of things against the wall. And then reduce the cost by 2."
No sir. No.
Edit: Oh, and by the way; despite the fact we have a high profile group of creatures with "Whenever you cycle x or it enters the battlefield" triggers, this won't have it. Feel free to run into players misreading the card due to our incompetent set design.
What? This doesn't have a free Stifle if you cast it. It is just a worse Vendilion Clique in that case.
As to your last point, what creatures do we have that trigger when you cycle them or when they enter? There are none in Amonkhet and I haven't seen any in HOU. It is possible I missed a spoiler somewhere, but I didn't see any in the spoiler list. As such, there doesn't seem to be any cycle (so far) to compare this to that would cause confusion.
There is a cycle that works like that... from Alara Reborn, 8 years ago. So not exactly something most players are going to get tripped up by.
Wow. First of all, if that is what entombedhyrda was referring to, that is digging pretty deep to be complaining about new cards.
Second, are you pointing to the Sojourners (Bant Sojourners and friends)? If so, even those did not have enter the battlefield clauses. They had "die" triggers. So I still don't see the "high profile" cycle entombedhydra was comparing this to that would cause confusion.
In any case, I am really excited about this card. I could see it making decks in Standard and maybe Modern though the latter is tougher for new cards to break to into. I personally will be putting this into my Ephara, God of the Polis and Thassa, God of the Sea EDH decks as this card seems way too good not to include in blue based control EDH decks.
Wow. First of all, if that is what entombedhyrda was referring to, that is digging pretty deep to be complaining about new cards.
Second, are you pointing to the Sojourners (Bant Sojourners and friends)? If so, even those did not have enter the battlefield clauses. They had "die" triggers. So I still don't see the "high profile" cycle entombedhydra was comparing this to that would cause confusion.
In any case, I am really excited about this card. I could see it making decks in Standard and maybe Modern though the latter is tougher for new cards to break to into. I personally will be putting this into my Ephara, God of the Polis and Thassa, God of the Sea EDH decks as this card seems way too good not to include in blue based control EDH decks.
You are correct, I'd forgotten that the Sojourner cycle was "cycle or dies", rather than etb.
My guess would actually be that they misremembered the text on the various "cycle or discard a card" cards, possibly? At least some of those are high profile, so that would explain that part of the comment.
My feeling on this card is that it is good in standard, though it competes with spell queller right now even though both hit different things. Modern it is a budget option and maybe sideboard fodder, but a 3/1 flier or a stifle isn't as good as a 3/1 flier that also is a thought seize without life cost.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So what everyone is saying is that they would've liked for this to have been Mythic and had the same effect be an ETB effect because comparing this to a legendary mythic rare isn't fair to this card at all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
So what everyone is saying is that they would've liked for this to have been Mythic and had the same effect be an ETB effect because comparing this to a legendary mythic rare isn't fair to this card at all.
While people wanting this to be an ETB trigger are way too greedy, the two cards compete for the same deck slot because they have the same CMC and stats. Comparing the two cards matters insomuch as most decks would rather run Clique due to it being more flexible, but this card works better in a few specific matchups.
So what everyone is saying is that they would've liked for this to have been Mythic and had the same effect be an ETB effect because comparing this to a legendary mythic rare isn't fair to this card at all.
While people wanting this to be an ETB trigger are way too greedy, the two cards compete for the same deck slot because they have the same CMC and stats. Comparing the two cards matters insomuch as most decks would rather run Clique due to it being more flexible, but this card works better in a few specific matchups.
Maybe 3 Clique 1 Obstructionst?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
Let's be clear: I can't think of a blue 3/1 for 2U at any rarity. I sure as heck can't think of one with flying and flash at 3 mana.
But wait, there's more! We're giving up any pretense of fair costing by making it cycle for the same price; so it's either the most aggressive costed flyer with a freestifle, or it's a fairly costed cantrip stifle... at no additional cost.
I can't tell what's more annoying - Wizards rampant and unabashed power creep, or the incompetent way they're doing it. It really feels like it's not so much a decision "let's make a powerful card" as "let's throw a bunch of things against the wall. And then reduce the cost by 2."
No sir. No.
Edit: Oh, and by the way; despite the fact we have a high profile group of creatures with "Whenever you cycle x or it enters the battlefield" triggers, this won't have it. Feel free to run into players misreading the card due to our incompetent set design.
What? This doesn't have a free Stifle if you cast it. It is just a worse Vendilion Clique in that case.
As to your last point, what creatures do we have that trigger when you cycle them or when they enter? There are none in Amonkhet and I haven't seen any in HOU. It is possible I missed a spoiler somewhere, but I didn't see any in the spoiler list. As such, there doesn't seem to be any cycle (so far) to compare this to that would cause confusion.
1UU vs 2U
Legendary vs not legendary.
Vendilion Clique is a better designed card by a wide margin, and a better costed card to boot. And - most of all - it feels rare. This is overpowered garbage that feels like an uncommon.
That seems like an odd comment (and one that basically has nothing to do with my comments about your previous post). I am honestly not sure what you are even trying to say. Yes Clique is Legendary and has a stricter mana requirement. I am not sure why that means this is a bad card. My comparison to Clique was because it is a 3/1 flyer with Flash. I wasn't intending to discuss the merits of one over the other.
However, since you want to bring it up: Clique is certainly more powerful as its effect gives you hand disruption and a 3/1 flying body. That isn't an issue with this card though. You seem to admit yourself that this is powerful (overpowered is a bit of a stretch though) so I don't know why there should be an issue with it being at Rare. It does something different than Clique in that it gives a (more or less) uncounterable stifle and a card for 3 mana. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your comments, but I still haven't seen a good argument for why this "poorly designed", "overpowered" card is bad. It doesn't seem broken and I personally feel this is designed pretty well.
The versatility of this card is remarkable. Flash air blocker when needed, aggressive evader when cast at end step to finish someone off on your turn, or an uncounterable stifle that replaces itself for 2U. Wizard for tribal support.
Straight into my Azami EDH. As if that deck needed to get any nastier.
So what everyone is saying is that they would've liked for this to have been Mythic and had the same effect be an ETB effect because comparing this to a legendary mythic rare isn't fair to this card at all.
Oh no, this is actually pretty close to the power of the venerable fairy clique. That stifle effect is from cycling the card, meaning it basically replaces itself so it is very flexible. It's basically "Counter activated or blah ability, draw a card" or "I bring in a 3/1 flying creature to hit you with". Ironically, I'd say playing the card is actually the last ditch effort in this case vs cycling it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As it is, it "might" see play, but its just fringe and not really the kind of card thats simply always great.
Clique was great as you could always play it, remove some form of threat from the opponent, or cycle a card of your own, while providing a relevant creature type for the time. It was simply "always" great, while this is just mediocre choose your fate card.
----
Not impressed, but this might still be a card for constructed, its not "terrible" , but for sure not great.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Then have it be a may clause. The fact is there are certain situations where you'd want to counter your own triggered ability.
And Wizards very clearly removed that possibility, for several reasons. The first is, as others have noted, that it prevents misclicks in online play. The second is that (nearly) every single triggered ability you control that you would want to counter with this is something 'bad' added to the card to balance it. Wizards clearly doesn't want you to obviate the drawbacks of cards added for balance reasons, at least with this card.
It's very similar to how O-Ring effects have gradually specified hitting cards 'your opponents control'.
Second, are you pointing to the Sojourners (Bant Sojourners and friends)? If so, even those did not have enter the battlefield clauses. They had "die" triggers. So I still don't see the "high profile" cycle entombedhydra was comparing this to that would cause confusion.
In any case, I am really excited about this card. I could see it making decks in Standard and maybe Modern though the latter is tougher for new cards to break to into. I personally will be putting this into my Ephara, God of the Polis and Thassa, God of the Sea EDH decks as this card seems way too good not to include in blue based control EDH decks.
My guess would actually be that they misremembered the text on the various "cycle or discard a card" cards, possibly? At least some of those are high profile, so that would explain that part of the comment.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
While people wanting this to be an ETB trigger are way too greedy, the two cards compete for the same deck slot because they have the same CMC and stats. Comparing the two cards matters insomuch as most decks would rather run Clique due to it being more flexible, but this card works better in a few specific matchups.
Maybe 3 Clique 1 Obstructionst?
1UU vs 2U
Legendary vs not legendary.
Vendilion Clique is a better designed card by a wide margin, and a better costed card to boot. And - most of all - it feels rare. This is overpowered garbage that feels like an uncommon.
However, since you want to bring it up: Clique is certainly more powerful as its effect gives you hand disruption and a 3/1 flying body. That isn't an issue with this card though. You seem to admit yourself that this is powerful (overpowered is a bit of a stretch though) so I don't know why there should be an issue with it being at Rare. It does something different than Clique in that it gives a (more or less) uncounterable stifle and a card for 3 mana. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your comments, but I still haven't seen a good argument for why this "poorly designed", "overpowered" card is bad. It doesn't seem broken and I personally feel this is designed pretty well.
Straight into my Azami EDH. As if that deck needed to get any nastier.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Oh no, this is actually pretty close to the power of the venerable fairy clique. That stifle effect is from cycling the card, meaning it basically replaces itself so it is very flexible. It's basically "Counter activated or blah ability, draw a card" or "I bring in a 3/1 flying creature to hit you with". Ironically, I'd say playing the card is actually the last ditch effort in this case vs cycling it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!