Is no one going to comment on the fact that Rhonas's "last stand" involves him chucking his head to become a token?
I mean, if you only look at the art it does appear that way. If you follow the story that Wizards posts though, you will see that's not what happens at all.
Aside from that, back on topic of the card's strength...Tarmogoyf requires you to have 4 card types in graveyards to have a higher toughness. There needs to be 6 card types in graveyards to have higher power. Why are we complaining about this card?
The corona is in the shape of the staff, which appears to be taking the shape of his head.
But the art is ambiguous given the flavor text. Which makes it seems like he just hucks his own head at his target. Which seems like a poor strategy given the events unfolding on the plane at the moment.
I guess you can kind of make out the outline of this shoulders by the hand as well.
Moral of the story. At pre-release, win the die roll, drop Wasteland Scorpion turn 3 or you're gonna have a bad time.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
We really complaining about a 5/4 for 2? Regardless of it dying to removal it's still going to profitably block and swing through most anything they play turns 1-4 unless they're ramping.
goblin dark-dwellers recurs this for a super strong board pressence after a turn 4 wipe.
Any of the expertises can get tons of value off this. kari zev's expertise to snag your dude and drop a 5/4 snake? Heck on turn 5 you can kick a bushwacker and JUST END THE GAME.
Is it LotV or JtMS powerful? No. Is it an above average card if they don't have removal? Sure is. I can think of worse cards to top deck post turn 5.
Dorks and nonland mana sources make this even more bonkers. servant of the conduit and chandra, torch of defiance already see play in the energy shell and both out will let you follow this up wit a rhonas.
If you get this on Turn 2, it's great. Any later turns and it begins to diminish in value.
How does this diminish in value any more than any other creature spell that doesn’t have a ridiculous ETB effect? After turn two this card’s downside becomes less and less relevant. Thus, it improves as the game extends as well as any other big dumb creature. ITS 2 MANA...
Seriously? This Doom Blade argument again? Fatal Push is an amazing card – that doesn’t detract from the efficiency of this card. If you look at this as the worst case scenario – I play Rhonas’s Last Stand on turn 2 while you have 1 mana open. You Fatal Push my snake. I don’t untap turn 3…
You still had to have Push in your hand – had to have the mana open – and you only paid 1 less mana. It’s the same thing if if I pay 4 mana for a creature and you Push it with Revolt…So we are just never supposed to play a ~4 mana creature without an ETB again? Again, this is how we end up with Emrakul…
This card is good – it’s downside is that 2 lands don’t untap on the next turn. Green is THE best color to handle this cycle of downside and this has been the cheapest downside so far. As the game goes on, the downside becomes less and less relevant but a 5/4 creature stays relevant…
This is not just a 5/4 for 2 in any sense. This is a 5/4 for double green that says that none of your lands untap on your next turn. That's not a small downside at all.
This isn't like Bontu's Last Reckoning. That card removes all of your opponent's threats from the board, which buys you the next turn that you have no, or significantly less, mana to work with. It has a built in safety feature by nature of the effect its giving you.
This card doesn't have anything like that. This generates you a vanilla 5/4 at 2 mana. But here's the thing. If you're playing this card, you're playing an aggressive deck. No other deck type really wants this. Here's a bigger thing, though. If you okay this on turn 2, which is the best time to drop this, and your opponent has a Fatal Push, Grasp of Darkness, bounce spell, etc, you just lost both the turn that you played this card and your next turn. Yes, I will trade my one removal spell to double Time Walk you. I don't really know what an aggressive green deck is holding up man's for either other than maybe 1 first for Blossoming Defense so I'm really going to have to assume you're tapped out and that this card is then going to lock you out of your next turn (or a significant portion of your mana) essentially whenever you play this.
It's not the fact that this dies to removal. If this were a vanilla 2cmc 5/4 it would die but it would still be busted. It's what happens WHEN this dies to removal.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Is no one going to comment on the fact that Rhonas's "last stand" involves him chucking his head to become a token?
It's the staff, not his head, no?
Yes. As someone else pointed out, it's like Moses turning his staff into a snake - but it didn't work this time.
The Scorpion God just rips it in half.
Turn 1: Forest, Elvish Mystic OR Arbor Elf Turn 2: Forest, tap one forest and the mystic/arbor in order to cast Rhonas's Last Stand which makes a 5/4 green snake token. Turn 3: Forest, swing with the 5/4 snake, cast a second copy if you got it make another snake. Turn 4: Repeat the prior turn if you got another copy of Rhonas's Last Stand and another basic.
Seriously, this might be all hunky dory for standard and limited, but we all know the truth. At the kitchen table, if your friend is doing this they are practically getting away with murder. If they have two or more mystics and/or arbors you know they are intentionally scooting around the cards drawback and it becomes less of an issue for them.
It's a two mana card that makes a 5/4 token, and people are still disappointed.
Spoiler season can be depressing sometimes...
But it's not two mana. It's at least four.
Well its more like 2+X, where X is equal to the number of tapped lands you control at the start of your next turn. If you got even 1 mana dork, it basically reads as 1+X, where X equals 1. Which is similar value as 2+X and X equaling 0 but can be achieved with 2 mana dorks.
It's a two mana card that makes a 5/4 token, and people are still disappointed.
Spoiler season can be depressing sometimes...
But it's not two mana. It's at least four.
Well its more like 2+X, where X is equal to the number of tapped lands you control at the start of your next turn. If you got even 1 mana dork, it basically reads as 1+X, where X equals 1. Which is similar value as 2+X and X equaling 0 but can be achieved with 2 mana dorks.
Maybe but I'm really thinking of this in terms of standard where 1cmc dorks are not a thing and I don't really feel like you want to cast this late just to play a dork beforehand.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
It's a two mana card that makes a 5/4 token, and people are still disappointed.
Spoiler season can be depressing sometimes...
But it's not two mana. It's at least four.
Well its more like 2+X, where X is equal to the number of tapped lands you control at the start of your next turn. If you got even 1 mana dork, it basically reads as 1+X, where X equals 1. Which is similar value as 2+X and X equaling 0 but can be achieved with 2 mana dorks.
Maybe but I'm really thinking of this in terms of standard where 1cmc dorks are not a thing and I don't really feel like you want to cast this late just to play a dork beforehand.
Standard is a bit borked at the moment in several matters. That is why I look at mana dorks like Elvish Mystic and I ponder more about the card's usefulness.
It's a two mana card that makes a 5/4 token, and people are still disappointed.
Spoiler season can be depressing sometimes...
But it's not two mana. It's at least four.
Well its more like 2+X, where X is equal to the number of tapped lands you control at the start of your next turn. If you got even 1 mana dork, it basically reads as 1+X, where X equals 1. Which is similar value as 2+X and X equaling 0 but can be achieved with 2 mana dorks.
Leaving lands untapped the turn you play this so that they'll be untapped the next turn is still paying that mana,though. Like in the example you posted above--admittedly the best case for this card--my green casual decks that use mana dorks want to go BoP into Blade Splicer into Restoration Angel, or Elf into Rhonas himself into Thunderbreak Regent. Doing a bunch of dancing to get a discounted Woolly Thoctar just doesn't make it.
It's a two mana card that makes a 5/4 token, and people are still disappointed.
Spoiler season can be depressing sometimes...
But it's not two mana. It's at least four.
Well its more like 2+X, where X is equal to the number of tapped lands you control at the start of your next turn. If you got even 1 mana dork, it basically reads as 1+X, where X equals 1. Which is similar value as 2+X and X equaling 0 but can be achieved with 2 mana dorks.
Leaving lands untapped the turn you play this so that they'll be untapped the next turn is still paying that mana,though. Like in the example you posted above--admittedly the best case for this card--my green casual decks that use mana dorks want to go BoP into Blade Splicer into Restoration Angel, or Elf into Rhonas himself into Thunderbreak Regent. Doing a bunch of dancing to get a discounted Woolly Thoctar just doesn't make it.
Right and if you went for instance
T1: Forest, Mana Elf
T2: Forest, Mana Elf, Rhonas's Last Stand
T3: Forest, cast a 3 cmc card.
T4: Untap lands, cast a 5 drop.
I personally like the fact this set has less absurdly busted cards. I can't tell if the same people who complain about these cards also complain that Emrakul and Smugglers Copter and Aetherworks Marvel were too good.
I feel like want people want cards to be obviously overpowered during spoiler season, but once they actually play with those cards and see the effect on standard, they'll complain about those "great" cards to no end. I want to go back to magic where everything is a little less powerful and a little more fun for both sides of the table.
Well, this keeps in line with Rhonas being probably the best god of Amonkhet, besides that casting it on curve is a kick in the nuts in Limited, I wouldn't discount this being played in Standard either, a 5/4 for 2 can have its uses, and the drawback is workable if you're playing vs aggro in particular, a 5/4 can offset the tempo hit of not playing another threat the following turn. More casual formats will definitely love it, Llanowar Elves orMana Parrots make the drawback much less threatening.
Of course you dont need mana elves to make this card viable. Its damn powerful already.
But there is this lil synergy:
If you cast turn 1 Elvish Mystique & turn 2 this card by spending 1 mana from a land & 1 Mana from the mana elf, your turn 3 will only have 1 land, that stays tapped. If you now play your 3rd land, youd have 2 untapped lands & a mana elf = 3 Mana turn 3.
Thats a damn nice trick to evade the Snakes disadvantage & also consisting of already playable cards d:)
Got it, this card is worthless because every deck you ever play against with it will always cast fatal push on it, even the decks without black mana in them...now i understand.
1. Was it impossible to cost this at 1GG? No? Then go and do it WOTC. Sloppy.
2. Was it impossible to make this a N/N, not an N/O token? No? Then go and do it WOTC. Sloppy.
3. This feels like a creature with an odd comes into play ability. So go design a last stand, not an odd tarmogoyf variant.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
That is actually what makes the card so terrible annoying.
It will just ruin limited games and offer nothing else.
Makes it even more stupid in my book.
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I mean, if you only look at the art it does appear that way. If you follow the story that Wizards posts though, you will see that's not what happens at all.
Aside from that, back on topic of the card's strength...Tarmogoyf requires you to have 4 card types in graveyards to have a higher toughness. There needs to be 6 card types in graveyards to have higher power. Why are we complaining about this card?
Just looks like he decapitated himself, that's all. I got a good chuckle at least.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Spoiler season can be depressing sometimes...
But the art is ambiguous given the flavor text. Which makes it seems like he just hucks his own head at his target. Which seems like a poor strategy given the events unfolding on the plane at the moment.
I guess you can kind of make out the outline of this shoulders by the hand as well.
Moral of the story. At pre-release, win the die roll, drop Wasteland Scorpion turn 3 or you're gonna have a bad time.
How you should approach every game of Magic.
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My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
WTF, this set is really dark.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
This is not just a 5/4 for 2 in any sense. This is a 5/4 for double green that says that none of your lands untap on your next turn. That's not a small downside at all.
This isn't like Bontu's Last Reckoning. That card removes all of your opponent's threats from the board, which buys you the next turn that you have no, or significantly less, mana to work with. It has a built in safety feature by nature of the effect its giving you.
This card doesn't have anything like that. This generates you a vanilla 5/4 at 2 mana. But here's the thing. If you're playing this card, you're playing an aggressive deck. No other deck type really wants this. Here's a bigger thing, though. If you okay this on turn 2, which is the best time to drop this, and your opponent has a Fatal Push, Grasp of Darkness, bounce spell, etc, you just lost both the turn that you played this card and your next turn. Yes, I will trade my one removal spell to double Time Walk you. I don't really know what an aggressive green deck is holding up man's for either other than maybe 1 first for Blossoming Defense so I'm really going to have to assume you're tapped out and that this card is then going to lock you out of your next turn (or a significant portion of your mana) essentially whenever you play this.
It's not the fact that this dies to removal. If this were a vanilla 2cmc 5/4 it would die but it would still be busted. It's what happens WHEN this dies to removal.
-Chandra Nalaar
Yes. As someone else pointed out, it's like Moses turning his staff into a snake - but it didn't work this time.
The Scorpion God just rips it in half.
Turn 1: Forest, Elvish Mystic OR Arbor Elf
Turn 2: Forest, tap one forest and the mystic/arbor in order to cast Rhonas's Last Stand which makes a 5/4 green snake token.
Turn 3: Forest, swing with the 5/4 snake, cast a second copy if you got it make another snake.
Turn 4: Repeat the prior turn if you got another copy of Rhonas's Last Stand and another basic.
Seriously, this might be all hunky dory for standard and limited, but we all know the truth. At the kitchen table, if your friend is doing this they are practically getting away with murder. If they have two or more mystics and/or arbors you know they are intentionally scooting around the cards drawback and it becomes less of an issue for them.
But it's not two mana. It's at least four.
-Chandra Nalaar
Leaving lands untapped the turn you play this so that they'll be untapped the next turn is still paying that mana,though. Like in the example you posted above--admittedly the best case for this card--my green casual decks that use mana dorks want to go BoP into Blade Splicer into Restoration Angel, or Elf into Rhonas himself into Thunderbreak Regent. Doing a bunch of dancing to get a discounted Woolly Thoctar just doesn't make it.
T1: Forest, Mana Elf
T2: Forest, Mana Elf, Rhonas's Last Stand
T3: Forest, cast a 3 cmc card.
T4: Untap lands, cast a 5 drop.
I feel like want people want cards to be obviously overpowered during spoiler season, but once they actually play with those cards and see the effect on standard, they'll complain about those "great" cards to no end. I want to go back to magic where everything is a little less powerful and a little more fun for both sides of the table.
But there is this lil synergy:
If you cast turn 1 Elvish Mystique & turn 2 this card by spending 1 mana from a land & 1 Mana from the mana elf, your turn 3 will only have 1 land, that stays tapped. If you now play your 3rd land, youd have 2 untapped lands & a mana elf = 3 Mana turn 3.
Thats a damn nice trick to evade the Snakes disadvantage & also consisting of already playable cards d:)
Edit got my growths wtong initially
2. Was it impossible to make this a N/N, not an N/O token? No? Then go and do it WOTC. Sloppy.
3. This feels like a creature with an odd comes into play ability. So go design a last stand, not an odd tarmogoyf variant.