The funny bit is that the sole printing to date of Master of the Pearl Trident has a higher purchase price than several of the whiteborder printings of Lord of Atlantis. So this isn’t even whining about actual value - it’s whining about wanting a new card frame black border LoA. As if THAT should have been WotC’s reprint priority. They printed the more valuable card, they just didn’t satisfy the people with very specific wants. “And old style white border on my fishlord? No thank you!”
The funny bit is that the sole printing to date of Master of the Pearl Trident has a higher purchase price than several of the whiteborder printings of Lord of Atlantis. So this isn’t even whining about actual value - it’s whining about wanting a new card frame black border LoA. As if THAT should have been WotC’s reprint priority. They printed the more valuable card, they just didn’t satisfy the people with very specific wants. “And old style white border on my fishlord? No thank you!”
There is nothing funny at all.
This is not the product I am interested in because of the lack of Lord of Atlantis. Therefore I skip.
Simple enough.
You do not need to analysis why I think so or convince me this is a good or valuable product.
No matter how good it is, just not relevent to me.
The 6+ dumb ways to KO master of waves is pants on head deck design. Decks are solid enough to make the leave-out even more glaring. Also too much "Hey this card has a goblin/merfolk in the art, put it in hurr." It's crazy that the same company that makes commander decks also makes duel decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
I'm glad they're keeping it mono-colors for the decks - BR Gobs have been an on and off thing, and personally, introducing Black into a Goblin deck bogs it down. The beauty of Goblins is you play a Mountain, play a Goblin, and likely swing right away. It's Red at its finest - no thought, little effort, usually for a couple points of damage. If defenses arise, start saccing them and get around it that way.
Merfolk I couldn't possibly comment on - I suspect most White Merfolk from Lorwyn haven't been deemed necessary enough to include in a fish list.
But then I saw the Goblin Charbelcher. And to me, that's reason enough to have kept the landbase entirely Mountains. The Blighted Gorges (and - dear god - the Forgotten Caves) aren't good enough to run the risk of having Belcher not-double its damage, when in a deck wherer the only lands are mountains, it would *always* double.
You're completely correct in griping about this. However, I think their decision is at least consistent with previous Duel Deck products.
These decks tend to aim for a fairly modest power level. And by adding some non-Mountain lands into the Goblins deck, more variability is added to an already-variable card, leading to more varied play experiences. You get more of a feeling for what Charbelcher is like in an average Limited deck than how it's always been used in Constructed.
Likewise, they may have just been making the judgement call that the added utility of the Blighted Gorges and Forgotten Caves was worth reducing the effectiveness of Charbelcher.
It was probably a tough call on their part, but I think they erred on the side of it being a casual product rather than a competitive one.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On MTGO as Protoman.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Also the decks seen pretty weak in terms of reprints and fun.
I won't debate fun, but weak reprints?
Master of the Pearl Trident $6
Master of Waves $3.50
Merrow Reejeray $4.50
Wake Thrasher $3
Goblin Chieftain $5
Goblin Rabblemaster $3
Krenko $4.50
Warren Instigator $9
8 cards at or above $3 and those 8 totalling $38ish in preannouncement value on a set that will be readily available under $20... is weak?
okay great. they won't stay there. you're not factoring in the inevitability of reduced price BECAUSE of these reprints, so whats it actually come out to?
then there's the question...does a 3 dollar card actually need a reprint?
then there's the question...does a 3 dollar card actually need a reprint?
For a player and collector the answer is YES.
Every card over 25 cent bulk status needs a reprint at some point so I don't have to pay over-inflated values for it. No I'm not advocating overprinting everything into worthlessness, but keeping supply ahead of demand. Reprints will always be needed due to attrition.
It was probably a tough call on their part, but I think they erred on the side of it being a casual product rather than a competitive one.
It wasn't a tough call at all. This was is and ever shall be an entry level casual product and has never been competitive outside of the kitchen table.
People, this is about as good as this entry level, mass market product is going to get. Its like people griping about buying a bare bones, no option Honda Civic and then complaining it doesn't have the luxury and amenities of a Rolls Royce Phantom.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
People, this is about as good as this entry level, mass market product is going to get. Its like people griping about buying a bare bones, no option Honda Civic and then complaining it doesn't have the luxury and amenities of a Rolls Royce Phantom.
REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS
I think the expectation of Lord of Atlantis over Master of the Pearl Trident is realistic, as they are about the same price anyways.
Honestly this is the best DD we've had in a long while, although that isn't saying much after the last 3-5 years of them being terrible.
Another reason why Lord of Atlantis is UNREALISTIC as a reprint is because Atlantis is an Earth concept and they really try to avoid Earth references in multiverse cards these days. Even if not for reserved list or power level they’d never put Library of Alexandria or Bazaar of Baghdad into reprint because they’re from an era when Magic incorporated Earth locations - which they generally avoid nowadays.
Master is the card that (a) is worth more (albeit slightly), (b) has seen fewer printings, (c) is templated the way they like to template tribal lords in the past decade, and (d) does not reference an Earth location/legend.
So no, LoA getting the reprint was, in many ways, not a realistic expectation.
*Sigh* Seeing Aquitect’s Will in this makes me wish Wizards downgraded the Tribal card-type from evergreen to deciduous like they did with Protection instead of abandoning Tribal completely.
*Sigh* Seeing Aquitect’s Will in this makes me wish Wizards downgraded the Tribal card-type from evergreen to deciduous like they did with Protection instead of abandoning Tribal completely.
I've always wondered. Do they have to have Tribal on cards to include a race type to non-creatures? Can't they still have Instant-Elf or Enchantment-Dwarf?
So, when we get around to Elves vs. Merfolk, can we assume they'll also be monocolored?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
*Sigh* Seeing Aquitect’s Will in this makes me wish Wizards downgraded the Tribal card-type from evergreen to deciduous like they did with Protection instead of abandoning Tribal completely.
I've always wondered. Do they have to have Tribal on cards to include a race type to non-creatures? Can't they still have Instant-Elf or Enchantment-Dwarf?
Yes. There's a very complex answer, but the short version is that a card that is a card cannot have subtypes (Elf, Goblin, Gate) that do not correspond to its type. Since creature has rules requirements (goes into play, has power and toughness) they created a different type, Tribal, that shares the creature subtypes and could be put on non-creature permanents and spells without turning them into creatures.
The problem is, for design, Tribal kinda needs to be an all or nothing thing. Since it wasn't in from the beginning, there are cards that feel like they should be Tribal but aren't (Elvish Guidance,Krenko's Command) that would need to new Tribal versions if reprinted, but if its deciduous it creates the problem of people having to track even more card info for a minimum of gain, since Tribal cards are only relevant in sets with heavy tribal interactions (Onslaught, Lorwyn, Ixalan). Maro said they'd tried to bring back Tribal for OG Innistrad which had a light tribal theme and it wasn't relevant enough to game play to matter.
Lastly, there is the confusion of talking about Tribal cards interacting with tribal card (card type versus game effects) which made this really confusing to type.
There is nothing funny at all.
This is not the product I am interested in because of the lack of Lord of Atlantis. Therefore I skip.
Simple enough.
You do not need to analysis why I think so or convince me this is a good or valuable product.
No matter how good it is, just not relevent to me.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Feel free to tell me yours!
Merfolk I couldn't possibly comment on - I suspect most White Merfolk from Lorwyn haven't been deemed necessary enough to include in a fish list.
You're completely correct in griping about this. However, I think their decision is at least consistent with previous Duel Deck products.
Look at the Liliana deck for example. 2 Corrupt, 2 Tendrils of Corruption, yet 2 Polluted Mire in the deck.
Or look at the Might deck. With Lovisa Coldeyes as the "face card," you'd expect every creature to be a Barbarian, Warrior, or Berserker (especially with Coat of Arms also in the deck). Yet the deck features 2 Call of the Herd, 1 Beast Attack, 2 Burning-Tree Emissary, 1 Roar of the Wurm, etc.
These decks tend to aim for a fairly modest power level. And by adding some non-Mountain lands into the Goblins deck, more variability is added to an already-variable card, leading to more varied play experiences. You get more of a feeling for what Charbelcher is like in an average Limited deck than how it's always been used in Constructed.
Likewise, they may have just been making the judgement call that the added utility of the Blighted Gorges and Forgotten Caves was worth reducing the effectiveness of Charbelcher.
It was probably a tough call on their part, but I think they erred on the side of it being a casual product rather than a competitive one.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
okay great. they won't stay there. you're not factoring in the inevitability of reduced price BECAUSE of these reprints, so whats it actually come out to?
then there's the question...does a 3 dollar card actually need a reprint?
For a player and collector the answer is YES.
Every card over 25 cent bulk status needs a reprint at some point so I don't have to pay over-inflated values for it. No I'm not advocating overprinting everything into worthlessness, but keeping supply ahead of demand. Reprints will always be needed due to attrition.
It wasn't a tough call at all. This was is and ever shall be an entry level casual product and has never been competitive outside of the kitchen table.
People, this is about as good as this entry level, mass market product is going to get. Its like people griping about buying a bare bones, no option Honda Civic and then complaining it doesn't have the luxury and amenities of a Rolls Royce Phantom.
REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think the expectation of Lord of Atlantis over Master of the Pearl Trident is realistic, as they are about the same price anyways.
Honestly this is the best DD we've had in a long while, although that isn't saying much after the last 3-5 years of them being terrible.
Master is the card that (a) is worth more (albeit slightly), (b) has seen fewer printings, (c) is templated the way they like to template tribal lords in the past decade, and (d) does not reference an Earth location/legend.
So no, LoA getting the reprint was, in many ways, not a realistic expectation.
It's interesting that they use Master of Waves as the face card. Maybe they changed their mind about sidelining Protection.
As I recall, the sidelining of protection was in regards to the creation of new cards, and reprint laden product is not beholden to that.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Thanks in advance!!!
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
The merfolk ones.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
The goblin ones
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
I've always wondered. Do they have to have Tribal on cards to include a race type to non-creatures? Can't they still have Instant-Elf or Enchantment-Dwarf?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
But it is a nice overall product. Very playable, and replayable. I think the price should be junked down to $20. The set symbol is fantastic.
A much betetr monoU v monoR deck than jace v Chandra where Jace always loses if it doesn't hit land drops.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
Agreed! We need more art like this. I typically love the way the artists handle the goblin art.
Yes. There's a very complex answer, but the short version is that a card that is a card cannot have subtypes (Elf, Goblin, Gate) that do not correspond to its type. Since creature has rules requirements (goes into play, has power and toughness) they created a different type, Tribal, that shares the creature subtypes and could be put on non-creature permanents and spells without turning them into creatures.
The problem is, for design, Tribal kinda needs to be an all or nothing thing. Since it wasn't in from the beginning, there are cards that feel like they should be Tribal but aren't (Elvish Guidance,Krenko's Command) that would need to new Tribal versions if reprinted, but if its deciduous it creates the problem of people having to track even more card info for a minimum of gain, since Tribal cards are only relevant in sets with heavy tribal interactions (Onslaught, Lorwyn, Ixalan). Maro said they'd tried to bring back Tribal for OG Innistrad which had a light tribal theme and it wasn't relevant enough to game play to matter.
Lastly, there is the confusion of talking about Tribal cards interacting with tribal card (card type versus game effects) which made this really confusing to type.
Already done a little while back, actually.