It's difficult to foresee a situation in which this is good. I would kill for a traditional, single-player, console-based Magic RPG. A huge open world with access to a dozen or so planes could be a lot of fun. But I'm skeptical something like this will be executed properly.
I am going to be pissed off if they pour a litshoad of resources into a terrible MMO befoee they do something about the trainwreck of a MTGO client. I mean, seriously? Do they think that it's okay as it is?They should make the main game run at an acceptable level before they start focusing on spin-offs.
It also blows my mind when it seems like they think most people play this game for its story, setting and characters. It's pretty much like asking me to read a Super Meat Boy novel. Actually, that still sounds better than the MTG movie.
People still dump money into mtgo so theres minimal reason to fix it. Once it starts not making money itll change
Also, it blows my mind when people assume no one enjoys the story aspect of magic
Sometimes its good to try to step outside our bubbles
But wouldn`t people dump more money into it if it was as good as it should be? I know I would.
Fair point on the other thing. Different strokes, I know. I guess I was mostly just taking my MTGO grief out on the movie, which is kind of stupid.
if its generating revenue why fix whats broken? sure, you could potentially grow it by improving it, or you could leave it as is and continue to generate revenue while dumping those resources that would be used to fix it into something else that isn't currently making money, ya know?
as for a movie, i also don't see how thats dumb either. magic has/had a very rich story and a lot of people enjoy that aspect of it. there are certainly movies made from far less source material (by hasbro in particular), so why not make a film from something that actually has a bit of substance behind it? magic is more than just whatever the cards do, and i'd argue its a huge part of its success over the past 25 years.
once again wotc is several years too late. it'll flop, then they'll be reluctant to expand the ip again
Why do you say that? They are expanding into a dozen different directions right now. I will say that a few of them flopping is par for the course. They are trying to take their IP and turn it into... a movie, a puzzle video game, a board game, a mmo rpg and finally allowed it to cross streams with D&D to give players some support material for P&P RPG play. I'd be surprised if I didn't miss anything.
(Oh, yeah, not to forget there are comic books again! And we have a card and a whole plane based on those as setting of one of the major successful supplemental products.)
Should we mention collectible toy figurines. I don't get them, so I don't know whether they deserve special mentioning.
If anything they are spreading their IP too thin and seem to not properly support these outsourced products. I have a feeling the board game already got discontinued, but who would know since its just a licensed product and apparently cool to mismanage that stuff?!?
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
This doesn't really affect me, as I only play with physical cards and mostly older cards. But this has the potential to be hilarious, so I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for news about it.
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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching.
I am going to be pissed off if they pour a litshoad of resources into a terrible MMO befoee they do something about the trainwreck of a MTGO client. I mean, seriously? Do they think that it's okay as it is?They should make the main game run at an acceptable level before they start focusing on spin-offs.
It also blows my mind when it seems like they think most people play this game for its story, setting and characters. It's pretty much like asking me to read a Super Meat Boy novel. Actually, that still sounds better than the MTG movie.
To your first point let's create an analogy. When you own land in a good location you do not pay someone to run their revenue-generating storefront on it...they pay you in the form of rent. So when you own intellectual property like MtG and someone wants to make an ongoing revenue stream based on it...they pay you. There is almost no way in heck that Hasbro / WotC is contracting Cryptic to make a game for them with the expectation that the product is then handed off to an internal team to run/maintain. The most likely scenario is that Cryptic will be paying for the right to use the MtG intellectual property in the form of revenue sharing over X number of years with clauses about mandatory renewal under specified conditions of profitability. If it makes money it's a win for WotC, so long as it's more than the time spent collaborating and coordinating story / art / legal blah blah. If it doesn't make money, it will have had almost ZERO impact on MTGO or the physical card game.
To your second point, an MtG MMO does not have to specifically cater to MtG players. Yes there will be an intersection of interests, but the point from Cryptic's point of view is that using licensed properties accelerates development. In other words, it's cheaper to use someone else's creativity than it is to come up with your own stuff. Not only is it's cheaper, but it's less risky. Is an MtG MMO going to take down WoW? No. Does it need to in order to be profitable? Absolutely not.
This is an interesting situation, assuming this announcement is for an mmo and not an adventure/RPG.
If it's an mmo:
They could conceivably break even and cover their costs, make some profit on a venture like this. From the distanced perspective of a board & or director, this could definitely make it seem like it's a great idea (in fact the post above uses this argument as a reason for it being OK). Let's examine the real nub of the issue though:
MMOs occupy a very specific space within digital media. Not only are they a prime example of manipulative business practices (with the negative public opinion to boot), they are at this point a fading genre in terms of relevance and market interest, and for good reason. I'm not a market analyst, but even from an interested-observer's perspective one can tell that the WoWs of the past have become redundant & predictable, lost their lustre in the gaming sphere and it seems safe to say that a majoritative portion of the gaming world sees through the parlour-trickery of the now-familiar mmo grind and "ding!" philosophy of keeping people invested for endless hours of mindless drudgery.
(that's not to say that there aren't still people swayed by the shiny lights or entrenched in a habit, but the overall community has become wise to MMOs. Seems a little strange to describe any wider community as "wise" but in this instance it's applicable)
MMOs are and will be an important chapter in the book called "the history of popular gaming" but right now, today, they aren't what a savvy owner of a rich and vibrant IP would be looking at to expand their oeuvre.
My point is really that while a self-contained RPG in the vein of final fantasy (I'm thinking console audiences) would be a substantive and engaging way to bring the Magic IP to life, an MMO would (and could) be nothing more than a stretched, grindy, bland experience that only hints at wider themes and concerns itself with irritating fetch quests and repetitive mechanics as the main use of your time.
Frankly, however financially lucrative it may look, a sensible company looking to enrich and build on their IP to earn respect and reputation in terms of world-building should not be looking towards the MMO as a reasonable option. Not in 2017, anyway. A few years ago we would be having a very different conversation! But the time has passed. Today, this route only brings you embarrassment, criticism, collective shrugs from your core audience and maybe some profit. There are better options. Hell, give me a week & I could suggest several with business plans to boot.
It's all academic if they aren't making an mmo. If they are though, well, they done f***** up.
They only way i can see this being viable is following a turn based route. Maybe like the 3D Fallout era. (pausing the game to execute actions) I don't know if this is possible in a MMORPG though.
Wish it was a third person turn based RPG where you could fill up your spellbook and collect artifacts as you travel plane after plane. You could play as an existing planeswalker whose spark is unstable because of *plot* so you can only planeswalk at certain places in the game to start a new chapter but you can always travel back to the planes you have previously visited and collect more spells in free roam/open world mode, so when you finish the campaign you can be "invaded" or challenged like in dark souls. Also, planechase must be a part of such a game. However, you can also play as a player made legendary character with whatever color combinations and all of the above applies except you travel between planes via planar portals.
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Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
I am going to be pissed off if they pour a litshoad of resources into a terrible MMO befoee they do something about the trainwreck of a MTGO client. I mean, seriously? Do they think that it's okay as it is?They should make the main game run at an acceptable level before they start focusing on spin-offs.
It also blows my mind when it seems like they think most people play this game for its story, setting and characters. It's pretty much like asking me to read a Super Meat Boy novel. Actually, that still sounds better than the MTG movie.
People still dump money into mtgo so theres minimal reason to fix it. Once it starts not making money itll change
Also, it blows my mind when people assume no one enjoys the story aspect of magic
Sometimes its good to try to step outside our bubbles
But wouldn`t people dump more money into it if it was as good as it should be? I know I would.
Fair point on the other thing. Different strokes, I know. I guess I was mostly just taking my MTGO grief out on the movie, which is kind of stupid.
if its generating revenue why fix whats broken? sure, you could potentially grow it by improving it, or you could leave it as is and continue to generate revenue while dumping those resources that would be used to fix it into something else that isn't currently making money, ya know?
as for a movie, i also don't see how thats dumb either. magic has/had a very rich story and a lot of people enjoy that aspect of it. there are certainly movies made from far less source material (by hasbro in particular), so why not make a film from something that actually has a bit of substance behind it? magic is more than just whatever the cards do, and i'd argue its a huge part of its success over the past 25 years.
Now I'm going to open up a can of worms here. I think what Magic is great at delevering excellent flavor, but not so much on story. Look at the original Zendikar and BFZ. The original atleast from the cards had little story up until ROE. For the most part it was a plane that had a character of it's own. The flavor was all about discovery and adventure. And when we returned the story of the Eldrazi hijacked that flavor. We weren't adventuring we were fighting to stay alive and sometimes that flavor workes like in Scars of Mirrodin but it didn't work for me in BFZ.
That being said I think that flavor is enough to focus a MMO on. I think that they need to make it as sandbox-y as possible and make the experience be through our eyes.
I mean, can you imagine how amazing an action-adventure game set on Zendikar could be? Picture Breath of the Wild, but with more exploration tools than just a glider, more diverse enemies than Zelda games tend to offer, etc.
Yeah, I'm thinking less "trackball DPS grindfest" and more "fully interactive spellslinging sandbox". But maybe that's not what Cryptic is known for? In which case the problem would be Cryptic, not the concept of a Magic MMO.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Before people start going off into the wild blue yonder on thinking this could be like Shandalar, here is an example of gameplay for Neverwinter, which is most likely the template Cryptic Studios is going to follow...
As much as I want to have a lot of hopes and dreams for good gameplay systems that are exciting, these are consistently representative of the form MMOs tend to take these days. Wizards should really be investing in a single player game experience that has MMO-like multiplayer, where there's more freedom to play with the game systems.
If we wanted a really good MMO wizards would have had to pair up with bigger publishers like Square Enix, Blizzard Activision, etc, which are way too big and probably would end up strong-arming WoTC and Hasbro to be frank. At least it isn't EA or Ubisoft. If it was one of those two I'm not sure what new breed of nightmares would come out of that marriage.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Here is the silver lining on the announcement: If they do make an MMORPG it will greatly help the game as a whole by giving wizards a way to present the world in an interactive fashion. Also, all of Magic the Gathering stems from the same kind of fantasy roots as games like Final Fantasy XIV, which has become one of the best tributes to mid 2000 MMOs out there these days. So the worst case scenario isn't really all that bad for a game like this.
What I'm afraid of is lazy developers using an IP without creating relatable game systems. Games like Chrono Cross, Megaman Battle Network, and most recently Hand of Fate all come to mind as good inspirations to use as materials to try and build a good MtG MMO. Chrono Cross used a system where you equipped spells and could only use the spells once per battle per equip. Characters had affiliations to certain types of spell magic and equipping them with those spells logically would lead to better results. Megaman Battle Network was all about collecting abilities from other navi, viruses, etc, and utilize those abilities in a card game like form in an active time battle. Hand of Fates system... well that is best seen from watching this video...
That system would be a really great way to make use of monsters and summons as adversaries. It would also let them expand into whatever planes they want near indefinitely as the zones are arenas. However, I doubt Cryptic Studios would want to go wholesale game rip off so unfortunately I doubt they will be able to do something exactly like that.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I can only imagine the various silly names that would be popping up in this mmorpg.
Nothing like those classic MMORPG names like xSephirothx, Legolas13276, and XxSephirothxX. Not to mention those fancy "guild" names like Jackson 4 LFM.
Hot garbage... p2w is the new(ish) way of handling things like this so they can make games 'free' to play (f2p = lose). Horrible idea WotC. I'd rather pay the old-school monthly fee so everyone is on the same playing field.
Hot garbage... p2w is the new(ish) way of handling things like this so they can make games 'free' to play (f2p = lose). Horrible idea WotC. I'd rather pay the old-school monthly fee so everyone is on the same playing field.
Sub based games get forced out of the market by WoW. Wildstar tried that and was forced to go F2P after less than a year.
It's also kind of hilarious seeing people talk about the evils of p2w in a MTG forum.
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Randomness:
Quote from Singer of White Line »
Hey, lolis with katanas are awesome, and I don't care about their home country.
Hot garbage... p2w is the new(ish) way of handling things like this so they can make games 'free' to play (f2p = lose). Horrible idea WotC. I'd rather pay the old-school monthly fee so everyone is on the same playing field.
Sub based games get forced out of the market by WoW. Wildstar tried that and was forced to go F2P after less than a year.
It's also kind of hilarious seeing people talk about the evils of p2w in a MTG forum.
P2W with something physical to show for it is way different to me than P2W for digital content, which I refuse to do (even on mtgo). I can add to my EDH decks incrementally and still compete... I can't add to an mmo account incrementally and keep up with rich people and their spoiled children lol.
Hot garbage... p2w is the new(ish) way of handling things like this so they can make games 'free' to play (f2p = lose). Horrible idea WotC. I'd rather pay the old-school monthly fee so everyone is on the same playing field.
Sub based games get forced out of the market by WoW. Wildstar tried that and was forced to go F2P after less than a year.
It's also kind of hilarious seeing people talk about the evils of p2w in a MTG forum.
P2W with something physical to show for it is way different to me than P2W for digital content, which I refuse to do (even on mtgo). I can add to my EDH decks incrementally and still compete... I can't add to an mmo account incrementally and keep up with rich people and their spoiled children lol.
In most of F2P MMOs you hit the point where diminishing returns make further spending pointless well before the cost of a single standard deck though. They're less about spending money and more about finding niches in the in game economy to take advantage of. Also, I love digital items. They don't take up as much space as the eight foot tall stack of boxes filled with commons and uncommons I have from drafting over the years.
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Hey, lolis with katanas are awesome, and I don't care about their home country.
This has potential, although I'm skeptical. People also need to realize that budget is a definite hinder for how succesful these games can be. This is new grounds for a company. Is the money behind it? And if the money is behind it, can large amounts of funding be economically succesful with WoW in the picture? We don't want the Multiverse to appear small, so it requires a lot of upfront investment by an analogue game company - which is doubtful to happen - and even if it happens, it sets itself up to financial failure.
Why this has potential is plentifold. The planeswalker aspect can really make the game feel different from other MMOs. If they do it right, there'll be no classes, instead only leveling up magic through as many different colors as you want (and of course certain spells, items or abilities should make it possible to go Gideon). Full customization, the ability to start out a white cleric and eventually develop into the equivalent of Abzan creature growth (+1/+1 counters) matters. Much less need for creative worldbuilding in a sense, as Magic has a massive library of stories and settings to draw upon; Creative has already done plenty. The ability to explore the equivalent of dozens of WoW continents. But will it succeed in that case? Or become empty and fail?
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
if its generating revenue why fix whats broken? sure, you could potentially grow it by improving it, or you could leave it as is and continue to generate revenue while dumping those resources that would be used to fix it into something else that isn't currently making money, ya know?
as for a movie, i also don't see how thats dumb either. magic has/had a very rich story and a lot of people enjoy that aspect of it. there are certainly movies made from far less source material (by hasbro in particular), so why not make a film from something that actually has a bit of substance behind it? magic is more than just whatever the cards do, and i'd argue its a huge part of its success over the past 25 years.
Why do you say that? They are expanding into a dozen different directions right now. I will say that a few of them flopping is par for the course. They are trying to take their IP and turn it into... a movie, a puzzle video game, a board game, a mmo rpg and finally allowed it to cross streams with D&D to give players some support material for P&P RPG play. I'd be surprised if I didn't miss anything.
(Oh, yeah, not to forget there are comic books again! And we have a card and a whole plane based on those as setting of one of the major successful supplemental products.)
Should we mention collectible toy figurines. I don't get them, so I don't know whether they deserve special mentioning.
If anything they are spreading their IP too thin and seem to not properly support these outsourced products. I have a feeling the board game already got discontinued, but who would know since its just a licensed product and apparently cool to mismanage that stuff?!?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
To your first point let's create an analogy. When you own land in a good location you do not pay someone to run their revenue-generating storefront on it...they pay you in the form of rent. So when you own intellectual property like MtG and someone wants to make an ongoing revenue stream based on it...they pay you. There is almost no way in heck that Hasbro / WotC is contracting Cryptic to make a game for them with the expectation that the product is then handed off to an internal team to run/maintain. The most likely scenario is that Cryptic will be paying for the right to use the MtG intellectual property in the form of revenue sharing over X number of years with clauses about mandatory renewal under specified conditions of profitability. If it makes money it's a win for WotC, so long as it's more than the time spent collaborating and coordinating story / art / legal blah blah. If it doesn't make money, it will have had almost ZERO impact on MTGO or the physical card game.
To your second point, an MtG MMO does not have to specifically cater to MtG players. Yes there will be an intersection of interests, but the point from Cryptic's point of view is that using licensed properties accelerates development. In other words, it's cheaper to use someone else's creativity than it is to come up with your own stuff. Not only is it's cheaper, but it's less risky. Is an MtG MMO going to take down WoW? No. Does it need to in order to be profitable? Absolutely not.
If it's an mmo:
They could conceivably break even and cover their costs, make some profit on a venture like this. From the distanced perspective of a board & or director, this could definitely make it seem like it's a great idea (in fact the post above uses this argument as a reason for it being OK). Let's examine the real nub of the issue though:
MMOs occupy a very specific space within digital media. Not only are they a prime example of manipulative business practices (with the negative public opinion to boot), they are at this point a fading genre in terms of relevance and market interest, and for good reason. I'm not a market analyst, but even from an interested-observer's perspective one can tell that the WoWs of the past have become redundant & predictable, lost their lustre in the gaming sphere and it seems safe to say that a majoritative portion of the gaming world sees through the parlour-trickery of the now-familiar mmo grind and "ding!" philosophy of keeping people invested for endless hours of mindless drudgery.
(that's not to say that there aren't still people swayed by the shiny lights or entrenched in a habit, but the overall community has become wise to MMOs. Seems a little strange to describe any wider community as "wise" but in this instance it's applicable)
MMOs are and will be an important chapter in the book called "the history of popular gaming" but right now, today, they aren't what a savvy owner of a rich and vibrant IP would be looking at to expand their oeuvre.
My point is really that while a self-contained RPG in the vein of final fantasy (I'm thinking console audiences) would be a substantive and engaging way to bring the Magic IP to life, an MMO would (and could) be nothing more than a stretched, grindy, bland experience that only hints at wider themes and concerns itself with irritating fetch quests and repetitive mechanics as the main use of your time.
Frankly, however financially lucrative it may look, a sensible company looking to enrich and build on their IP to earn respect and reputation in terms of world-building should not be looking towards the MMO as a reasonable option. Not in 2017, anyway. A few years ago we would be having a very different conversation! But the time has passed. Today, this route only brings you embarrassment, criticism, collective shrugs from your core audience and maybe some profit. There are better options. Hell, give me a week & I could suggest several with business plans to boot.
It's all academic if they aren't making an mmo. If they are though, well, they done f***** up.
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Now I'm going to open up a can of worms here. I think what Magic is great at delevering excellent flavor, but not so much on story. Look at the original Zendikar and BFZ. The original atleast from the cards had little story up until ROE. For the most part it was a plane that had a character of it's own. The flavor was all about discovery and adventure. And when we returned the story of the Eldrazi hijacked that flavor. We weren't adventuring we were fighting to stay alive and sometimes that flavor workes like in Scars of Mirrodin but it didn't work for me in BFZ.
That being said I think that flavor is enough to focus a MMO on. I think that they need to make it as sandbox-y as possible and make the experience be through our eyes.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFNSALRkwk
As you can see, very detached from the source material in mechanics. The other example is this one for Champions Online...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_O1hlP2ous
As much as I want to have a lot of hopes and dreams for good gameplay systems that are exciting, these are consistently representative of the form MMOs tend to take these days. Wizards should really be investing in a single player game experience that has MMO-like multiplayer, where there's more freedom to play with the game systems.
If we wanted a really good MMO wizards would have had to pair up with bigger publishers like Square Enix, Blizzard Activision, etc, which are way too big and probably would end up strong-arming WoTC and Hasbro to be frank. At least it isn't EA or Ubisoft. If it was one of those two I'm not sure what new breed of nightmares would come out of that marriage.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What I'm afraid of is lazy developers using an IP without creating relatable game systems. Games like Chrono Cross, Megaman Battle Network, and most recently Hand of Fate all come to mind as good inspirations to use as materials to try and build a good MtG MMO. Chrono Cross used a system where you equipped spells and could only use the spells once per battle per equip. Characters had affiliations to certain types of spell magic and equipping them with those spells logically would lead to better results. Megaman Battle Network was all about collecting abilities from other navi, viruses, etc, and utilize those abilities in a card game like form in an active time battle. Hand of Fates system... well that is best seen from watching this video...
Gameplay for Hand of Fate
That system would be a really great way to make use of monsters and summons as adversaries. It would also let them expand into whatever planes they want near indefinitely as the zones are arenas. However, I doubt Cryptic Studios would want to go wholesale game rip off so unfortunately I doubt they will be able to do something exactly like that.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Nothing like those classic MMORPG names like xSephirothx, Legolas13276, and XxSephirothxX. Not to mention those fancy "guild" names like Jackson 4 LFM.
Sub based games get forced out of the market by WoW. Wildstar tried that and was forced to go F2P after less than a year.
It's also kind of hilarious seeing people talk about the evils of p2w in a MTG forum.
P2W with something physical to show for it is way different to me than P2W for digital content, which I refuse to do (even on mtgo). I can add to my EDH decks incrementally and still compete... I can't add to an mmo account incrementally and keep up with rich people and their spoiled children lol.
Thanks.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
In most of F2P MMOs you hit the point where diminishing returns make further spending pointless well before the cost of a single standard deck though. They're less about spending money and more about finding niches in the in game economy to take advantage of. Also, I love digital items. They don't take up as much space as the eight foot tall stack of boxes filled with commons and uncommons I have from drafting over the years.
Why this has potential is plentifold. The planeswalker aspect can really make the game feel different from other MMOs. If they do it right, there'll be no classes, instead only leveling up magic through as many different colors as you want (and of course certain spells, items or abilities should make it possible to go Gideon). Full customization, the ability to start out a white cleric and eventually develop into the equivalent of Abzan creature growth (+1/+1 counters) matters. Much less need for creative worldbuilding in a sense, as Magic has a massive library of stories and settings to draw upon; Creative has already done plenty. The ability to explore the equivalent of dozens of WoW continents. But will it succeed in that case? Or become empty and fail?