Emrakul, the Promised End
Reflector Mage
Smuggler’s Copter
Felidar Guardian
Then, what is going to be next? I am not evaluating the convenience or not of them being banned, but the fact that Wizards designs and sells us these cards. At this pace the list of cards banned in standard in going to be longer that the ones banned in modern.
I have lost completely my trust in Wizards. Standard? Nevermore; Wizards, you can count me out of it.
Guys, you know standard has been in bad places before, right?
This isn't a sudden and unexpected problem, standard has a history of bad times. And this isn't the worst of them.
Things will get better, and eventually worse again. That's just how it happens sometimes. What should happen is the bad times get less bad and/or less frequent which I think has happened over time.
Yeah this is stupid. The deck needed a ban for sure, but this is no way to do it, you don't announce no ban, have the cards spike when people buy in and then ban it. Confidence in WOTC is no doubt at a all time low.
I just hope we don't just get Gideon.format now. At least 4 color Saheeli played fun cards like Whirler Virtuoso and Rogue Refiner. Mardu Vehicles is boring.
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That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
Right now between FNM promos having no wow factor and the game itself being a complete mess at the moment, I'm surprised any FNM is firing off for standard. Wizards PR would have been much better if they had banned cat combo in the original announcement as it wasn't like people weren't already saying it was a problem. It felt like everyone had to jam the statement down their throats, including nearly the entire Pro player scene, to get them to actually do something. Even then, the fact they actually let this go through is just bad. Historically, this entire problem seems to have started happening ever since BFZ/Oath was released, with Coco sort of being the harbinger.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It's the combined knowledge of the internet vs internal testing.
There is no way internal testing in Wizards can figure out every possible combination of cards.
On the other side is millions of people connected through the internet, so as soon as someone somewhere figures it out, everybody will know.
A card like Reflector Mage or Emrakul makes total sense to print.
But when such a card can be ramped into turn 2, or repeatedly and consistently blinked into locking players out of a game, it becomes a problem.
Felidar Guardian and Saheeli are both totally fine cards that form a degenerate combo, just like Splinter Twin. Who first looked at Pestermite thinking: well there's an overpower piece of cardboard.
Yes the timing of the banning is very problematic, but be a bit more considerate with the company making your favorite card game.
Standard is in a really bad shape now. Expensive chase cards, even when it comes to uncommons. Then a massive drop overnight when they rotate. IMO, Standard should be at least half its current value going forward. They gotta do something about speculations and hoarding. They should speak to the big shops and try to find the best possible solution.
Let's all be honest. If Standard was half its current value I'm pretty sure many would pick up the format. It's currently not as sustainable as one would think. And don't mentioned the pros. They're sponsored. Tell me if you're playing Standard for years and never ever felt burnt out with the spending.
Cheaper Standard magic would bring more acceptance, more attendees, more prominance/awareness. Maybe even more willingness to travel for magic.
Standard is in a really bad shape now. Expensive chase cards, even when it comes to uncommons. Then a massive drop overnight when they rotate. IMO, Standard should be at least half its current value going forward. They gotta do something about speculations and hoarding. They should speak to the big shops and try to find the best possible solution.
Let's all be honest. If Standard was half its current value I'm pretty sure many would pick up the format. It's currently not as sustainable as one would think. And don't mentioned the pros. They're sponsored. Tell me if you're playing Standard for years and never ever felt burnt out with the spending.
Cheaper Standard magic would bring more acceptance, more attendees, more prominance/awareness. Maybe even more willingness to travel for magic.
If it were half its current value nobody would buy booster boxes, since the potential value in a box would be less than you paid for it.
So, how would a flex slot work? You'd have to decide on rarity and color before you even knew what the problem was and then you'd have to cram a really powerful card into the set without as much testing as normal. You'd also have to be able to get art for it and either make the card blue/white or risk the color not being able to answer the problem at all. The other option is to just bump a card out at the last minute which might wreck limited strategies/balance or axe a neat card that might not fit into any other sets.
Good question.
Uncommon... they've done it with Rakdos Charm, Volcanic Fallout, and Raking Canopy in the past
Maybe they just need to make the sets a little bigger so they can print more answers at common and uncommon. Amonkhet felt very light on enchantment removal, for instance. An extra 10 cards or so would go a long way in keeping things balanced.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
So, how would a flex slot work? You'd have to decide on rarity and color before you even knew what the problem was and then you'd have to cram a really powerful card into the set without as much testing as normal. You'd also have to be able to get art for it and either make the card blue/white or risk the color not being able to answer the problem at all. The other option is to just bump a card out at the last minute which might wreck limited strategies/balance or axe a neat card that might not fit into any other sets.
Good question.
Uncommon... they've done it with Rakdos Charm, Volcanic Fallout, and Raking Canopy in the past
Maybe they just need to make the sets a little bigger so they can print more answers at common and uncommon. Amonkhet felt very light on enchantment removal, for instance. An extra 10 cards or so would go a long way in keeping things balanced.
That would be nice, but it often seems they will cry how its to complex to be common or uncommon because those are cards for limited! (aka yeah constructed playable cards must be rare or higher more often then not because that sells more packs, if 2 cases can get a play set of playable cards due to low rarity how will we keep sales up?) exactly. Remember what wizards truly cares about is selling more and more packs to keep Hasbro happy.
Glad I made the decision to stop collecting and sell off my collection. I can play my limited tournaments I enjoy, sell the valuable cards instantly, offsetting the cost, if I win more stuff to sell. Do not have to worry about keeping things for a collection, just to read banned, banned, banned and watch the prices go down, then prices of other cards do not rise as much because hey they seem to like banning things now... ah well. This decision will save me a couple grand a year likely.... Time to pursue other passions, magic had been allowed to take in to much of my expendable income for to long. I feel bad for some people holding on, the trends are worrisome, got lottery cards sucking up a huge chunk of a sets value, to the point where if you fail to get them you likely lose. like 4 or 5 cards in a new set over $10.... all mythics at that. yeah very nice ( I got lucky at pre-release promo liliana and a foil angel of sanctions so I made money over all playing there even with all the prize packs being 100% crap.
I hope wizards can get their act together and stop being 100% lets do anything we think will bring in another penny instantly no matter the long term effects, and start looking more to the future and how to keep the game strong. But lottery cards, master sets year after year, other random sets each year... just $$$$$$$$ to wizards and anything else be damned.
Glad I made the decision to stop collecting and sell off my collection. I can play my limited tournaments I enjoy, sell the valuable cards instantly, offsetting the cost, if I win more stuff to sell. Do not have to worry about keeping things for a collection, just to read banned, banned, banned and watch the prices go down, then prices of other cards do not rise as much because hey they seem to like banning things now... ah well. This decision will save me a couple grand a year likely.... Time to pursue other passions, magic had been allowed to take in to much of my expendable income for to long. I feel bad for some people holding on, the trends are worrisome, got lottery cards sucking up a huge chunk of a sets value, to the point where if you fail to get them you likely lose. like 4 or 5 cards in a new set over $10.... all mythics at that. yeah very nice ( I got lucky at pre-release promo liliana and a foil angel of sanctions so I made money over all playing there even with all the prize packs being 100% crap.
I hope wizards can get their act together and stop being 100% lets do anything we think will bring in another penny instantly no matter the long term effects, and start looking more to the future and how to keep the game strong. But lottery cards, master sets year after year, other random sets each year... just $$$$$$$$ to wizards and anything else be damned.
I'm pretty much thinking the same thing. The trends with both modern and standard are extremely troubling to me. How they let let copycat through in the first place is beyond me; plus their design philosophy is so warped that it isn't even the best deck in a format devoid decent answers. Then you let it go through an announcement that we ALL expected it to be banned in so people think it is safe to buy into. Only to ban it two days later based on MTGO stats? I'm glad they are using some stats instead of just anecdotal evidence like "condemn is a thing guys!" but how in the world is 2 days on a platform where roughly 1% of players play enough to know anything? Most people don't even have the cards yet, or other things to do the beginning of the week.
If you couldn't see copycat was a problem all this time but learned enough in two days worth of bad data then I absolutely cannot trust them to manage anything with my money.
I love limited and will probably continue to play that, as well as update my pauper cube, but I am surely going to be phasing out of the game. It's a pity really. If you asked me a year ago what it would take for me to lose all confidence in wizards and quit the game I would've answered "A LOT!!". Well They've at least started to make me consider it.
No point looking a gift horse in the mouth. The ban needed to happen and the fact that they did get around to it, even if they had to be prodded by the community at large, is still commendable.
I'm not really sure I would characterize it as an "emergency ban" in the same way Memory Jar got axed though. It's pretty close in the sense they've added a card to the original announcement before the it went into effect but the card in question was a very well known quality and which, arguably, should have been banned in March, not a completely new card from the set that was just released. The prize on the line was not the game itself, at least I don't think it was.
Standard, right now, is as wide open as you can hope for it to be. There is exactly one police deck still running around which is fine as it gives deck builders a starting point when approaching the format. Where we go from there is anyone's guess but it certainly wont be turn 4 kitty death. The Pro Tour is looking better then ever and I'm certain the pros will step up and show up with interesting new brews, new takes on old format staples or maybe even something completely different.
All in all this ban gets a pass.
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
A format needs failsafe mechanisms and right now Standard doesn't really have them. If we had Lightning Strike or Mana Leak in the format, this combo would have been much more manageable and no ban would have been necessary. Probably wouldn't have needed the other three bans either. Wizards just absolutely neuters control, and the result is that a combo deck can run unchallenged.
In a truly healthy standard, combo, control, aggro, midrange are all well represented. Cat Combo was not broken, at all. Wizards destroyed control, neutered fast mana, and got rid of pretty much any playable hand disruption that could get at the combo before it comes online. Hence why I hate the decision to drop the Core Sets. Love them or hate them, core sets are the PERFECT place to keep answers to upcoming power creep cards in check, Lightning Bolt, Duress, Mana Leak, Condemn/Path, nothing new, nothing broken, just answers that balance a format going forward. It isn't that hard R&D...
A format needs failsafe mechanisms and right now Standard doesn't really have them. If we had Lightning Strike or Mana Leak in the format, this combo would have been much more manageable and no ban would have been necessary. Probably wouldn't have needed the other three bans either. Wizards just absolutely neuters control, and the result is that a combo deck can run unchallenged.
Agreed 100%.
Their desire to slow down the format has created monsters out of cards that are at best a little pushed.
Its also no coincidence that all the banned cards are creatures when they have been far too focused on making sure there is a busy and exciting battlefield full of cards for Twitch streams, instead of maintaining a balance between creatures, control, removal, etc.
Its also no coincidence that all the banned cards are creatures...
This... is a really good point actually. Like, if you look at other formats like Modern and Legacy, almost none of the cards banned in those formats are creatures. Hmm...
Wizards almost makes it look like it's simply banning the top deck(s) to shake up the format because they can't print cards powerful enough to compete with the old stuff. It's no way to run a game, and as standard goes so does OP as a whole.
This is how they handle Modern, so if you're not excited with this ideology, don't get into eternal formats.
Also, as a guy who started right at the end of Innistrad standard, power creep feels great on the way up, but terrible on the way down (ie Theros standard.)
In a truly healthy standard, combo, control, aggro, midrange are all well represented. Cat Combo was not broken, at all. Wizards destroyed control, neutered fast mana, and got rid of pretty much any playable hand disruption that could get at the combo before it comes online. Hence why I hate the decision to drop the Core Sets. Love them or hate them, core sets are the PERFECT place to keep answers to upcoming power creep cards in check, Lightning Bolt, Duress, Mana Leak, Condemn/Path, nothing new, nothing broken, just answers that balance a format going forward. It isn't that hard R&D...
Excellent point.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
In a truly healthy standard, combo, control, aggro, midrange are all well represented. Cat Combo was not broken, at all. Wizards destroyed control, neutered fast mana, and got rid of pretty much any playable hand disruption that could get at the combo before it comes online. Hence why I hate the decision to drop the Core Sets. Love them or hate them, core sets are the PERFECT place to keep answers to upcoming power creep cards in check, Lightning Bolt, Duress, Mana Leak, Condemn/Path, nothing new, nothing broken, just answers that balance a format going forward. It isn't that hard R&D...
It would have been ok if those answers that would have been in the core set were spread throughout the regular sets. Instead we just get Evolving Wilds, Mind Rot, and Cancel printed in every block.
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My decks
Standard - RIP Cat
Modern - Death & Taxes
Commander - Mazirek, Trostani, Angry Omnath
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The following cards are banned:
Emrakul, the Promised End
Reflector Mage
Smuggler’s Copter
Felidar Guardian
Then, what is going to be next? I am not evaluating the convenience or not of them being banned, but the fact that Wizards designs and sells us these cards. At this pace the list of cards banned in standard in going to be longer that the ones banned in modern.
I have lost completely my trust in Wizards. Standard? Nevermore; Wizards, you can count me out of it.
This isn't a sudden and unexpected problem, standard has a history of bad times. And this isn't the worst of them.
Things will get better, and eventually worse again. That's just how it happens sometimes. What should happen is the bad times get less bad and/or less frequent which I think has happened over time.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
lol... this ban was not based on data. I bet wizards got a ***** load of emails *****ing about Felidar Guardian.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There is no way internal testing in Wizards can figure out every possible combination of cards.
On the other side is millions of people connected through the internet, so as soon as someone somewhere figures it out, everybody will know.
A card like Reflector Mage or Emrakul makes total sense to print.
But when such a card can be ramped into turn 2, or repeatedly and consistently blinked into locking players out of a game, it becomes a problem.
Felidar Guardian and Saheeli are both totally fine cards that form a degenerate combo, just like Splinter Twin. Who first looked at Pestermite thinking: well there's an overpower piece of cardboard.
Yes the timing of the banning is very problematic, but be a bit more considerate with the company making your favorite card game.
( 0.0 )
=O ((U/R)) O=
(")(")
I'm an AI making Magic cards.
http://www.staalmedia.nl/nexus/#generate
Let's all be honest. If Standard was half its current value I'm pretty sure many would pick up the format. It's currently not as sustainable as one would think. And don't mentioned the pros. They're sponsored. Tell me if you're playing Standard for years and never ever felt burnt out with the spending.
Cheaper Standard magic would bring more acceptance, more attendees, more prominance/awareness. Maybe even more willingness to travel for magic.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
If it were half its current value nobody would buy booster boxes, since the potential value in a box would be less than you paid for it.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
Maybe they just need to make the sets a little bigger so they can print more answers at common and uncommon. Amonkhet felt very light on enchantment removal, for instance. An extra 10 cards or so would go a long way in keeping things balanced.
That's got to be the biggest standard banned list since Mirrodin block.
Well, it was the biggest standard banned list since Mirrodin block before the felidar ban so it does in fact continue to be that.
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
That would be nice, but it often seems they will cry how its to complex to be common or uncommon because those are cards for limited! (aka yeah constructed playable cards must be rare or higher more often then not because that sells more packs, if 2 cases can get a play set of playable cards due to low rarity how will we keep sales up?) exactly. Remember what wizards truly cares about is selling more and more packs to keep Hasbro happy.
Glad I made the decision to stop collecting and sell off my collection. I can play my limited tournaments I enjoy, sell the valuable cards instantly, offsetting the cost, if I win more stuff to sell. Do not have to worry about keeping things for a collection, just to read banned, banned, banned and watch the prices go down, then prices of other cards do not rise as much because hey they seem to like banning things now... ah well. This decision will save me a couple grand a year likely.... Time to pursue other passions, magic had been allowed to take in to much of my expendable income for to long. I feel bad for some people holding on, the trends are worrisome, got lottery cards sucking up a huge chunk of a sets value, to the point where if you fail to get them you likely lose. like 4 or 5 cards in a new set over $10.... all mythics at that. yeah very nice ( I got lucky at pre-release promo liliana and a foil angel of sanctions so I made money over all playing there even with all the prize packs being 100% crap.
I hope wizards can get their act together and stop being 100% lets do anything we think will bring in another penny instantly no matter the long term effects, and start looking more to the future and how to keep the game strong. But lottery cards, master sets year after year, other random sets each year... just $$$$$$$$ to wizards and anything else be damned.
I'm pretty much thinking the same thing. The trends with both modern and standard are extremely troubling to me. How they let let copycat through in the first place is beyond me; plus their design philosophy is so warped that it isn't even the best deck in a format devoid decent answers. Then you let it go through an announcement that we ALL expected it to be banned in so people think it is safe to buy into. Only to ban it two days later based on MTGO stats? I'm glad they are using some stats instead of just anecdotal evidence like "condemn is a thing guys!" but how in the world is 2 days on a platform where roughly 1% of players play enough to know anything? Most people don't even have the cards yet, or other things to do the beginning of the week.
If you couldn't see copycat was a problem all this time but learned enough in two days worth of bad data then I absolutely cannot trust them to manage anything with my money.
I love limited and will probably continue to play that, as well as update my pauper cube, but I am surely going to be phasing out of the game. It's a pity really. If you asked me a year ago what it would take for me to lose all confidence in wizards and quit the game I would've answered "A LOT!!". Well They've at least started to make me consider it.
I'm not really sure I would characterize it as an "emergency ban" in the same way Memory Jar got axed though. It's pretty close in the sense they've added a card to the original announcement before the it went into effect but the card in question was a very well known quality and which, arguably, should have been banned in March, not a completely new card from the set that was just released. The prize on the line was not the game itself, at least I don't think it was.
Standard, right now, is as wide open as you can hope for it to be. There is exactly one police deck still running around which is fine as it gives deck builders a starting point when approaching the format. Where we go from there is anyone's guess but it certainly wont be turn 4 kitty death. The Pro Tour is looking better then ever and I'm certain the pros will step up and show up with interesting new brews, new takes on old format staples or maybe even something completely different.
All in all this ban gets a pass.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Agreed 100%.
Their desire to slow down the format has created monsters out of cards that are at best a little pushed.
Its also no coincidence that all the banned cards are creatures when they have been far too focused on making sure there is a busy and exciting battlefield full of cards for Twitch streams, instead of maintaining a balance between creatures, control, removal, etc.
http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/20765
Standard - RIP Cat
Modern - Death & Taxes
Commander - Mazirek, Trostani, Angry Omnath
This... is a really good point actually. Like, if you look at other formats like Modern and Legacy, almost none of the cards banned in those formats are creatures. Hmm...
This is how they handle Modern, so if you're not excited with this ideology, don't get into eternal formats.
Also, as a guy who started right at the end of Innistrad standard, power creep feels great on the way up, but terrible on the way down (ie Theros standard.)
Excellent point.
It would have been ok if those answers that would have been in the core set were spread throughout the regular sets. Instead we just get Evolving Wilds, Mind Rot, and Cancel printed in every block.
Standard - RIP Cat
Modern - Death & Taxes
Commander - Mazirek, Trostani, Angry Omnath