Nice sphinx. Unlike most, his state-to-CMC ratio is great. (They tend to cost too much.)
The white exert can be constructed-worthy. It's certainly a draft power-house, given that we've seen multiple untap combat tricks in the set already. Try racing a 4/4 lifelink two drop. At least its 1 toughness means he die to pretty much any removal. Now that I think about it, given the -1/-1 theme, he may not be *that* powerful in limited.
Green naga draw-1-every-two-turns looks good in limited.
And they've been doing this from the start. Minotaur is strongly bound to specifically-Greek myth (Minos), but it's been a creature type everywhere from Dominaria to Ravnica to Alara to Zendikar, in addition to its logical place in Theros. They could use the existing creature typeOx, but they don't.
I think the stranger inconsistency is that cat and cat-people are given the same type - that they never made Leonin a type.
The Minotaurus is a mythical creature literally everyone is familiar though, at least in Magic's main audience in the west. The Naga? Not so much.
They could also decide to give bird-people the Aven type, since that name has a very long history in magic. But they don't and only the snakes are split into two tribes for no good reason, that's why I'm so salty right now.
Why are the snake people Naga again? I was *just* entertaining the idea of building a Seshiro the Anointed deck.
Once they make a distinct race they tend not to go back. Viashino exist and Lizard Warrior won't be a thing anymore. Naga once created usurp the snakefolk. Sad thing. That's why we shouldn't want certain creature types.
They could also decide to give bird-people the Aven type, since that name has a very long history in magic. But they don't and only the snakes are split into two tribes for no good reason, that's why I'm so salty right now.
Lizard is split, also Fish and Plant. And Octopus. Horses also get covered by three or four different creature types, maybe five.
That Gideon is actually quite decent. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw it as a one of in something.
I was gonna say the same thing. The PW deck Gideon seems quite playable, if only for the +1 and 0 abilities. The +1 ability works wonderfully with exerted creatures (and interacts with crew abilities, because of course it does).
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I have to say that I'm relatively disappointed with today's spoilers. I would have liked to see another God or Walker like he have the last three days. That being said I guess the blue God wasn't spoiled until a bit later in the day so it's still possible.
[quote from="thatmarkguy »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/774006-4-6-mothership-spoilers-pw-deck-cards-and-some?comment=26"]But they don't and only the snakes are split into two tribes for no good reason, that's why I'm so salty right now.
The Kamigawa snake people are humanoid reptilians with four arms that happen to look like snakes and that are called Orochibito in their source mythology while the nagas are snakes with humanoid characteristics that exist in indian mythology. They have almost nothing in common except for the fact that they look like snakes.
Instead of complaining about Nagas having the type naga, you should complain about snake people from Kamigawa not having the type Orochibito, which would be more logical than making the naga snakes.
And they've been doing this from the start. Minotaur is strongly bound to specifically-Greek myth (Minos), but it's been a creature type everywhere from Dominaria to Ravnica to Alara to Zendikar, in addition to its logical place in Theros. They could use the existing creature typeOx, but they don't.
I think the stranger inconsistency is that cat and cat-people are given the same type - that they never made Leonin a type.
The Minotaurus is a mythical creature literally everyone is familiar though, at least in Magic's main audience in the west. The Naga? Not so much.
They could also decide to give bird-people the Aven type, since that name has a very long history in magic. But they don't and only the snakes are split into two tribes for no good reason, that's why I'm so salty right now.
Apparently the hate boner they have for Kamigawa is very strong. It's like Tamiyo is the gonorrhea result of then having a druken one-night stand with Kamigawa after they said the didn't want to go back. They can't get rid of her, but avoid doing anything the can from having anything else that reminds them of what they did. Now that we have a non legendary cat lord their we're probably going to get a bird, jakal and crocodile lord too. Then will get a naga lord....that also effects snakes. Wizards literally just heard 'The nagas of Tarkir should have been snakes for backwards compatibility.' as 'Just use naga instead of snake for snake people from now on.'
Roughly as far back as 2005 its has been as long as its tied to a creature in some way. Harmonize was a planeshifted card that's considered a mistake now.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
This thread is full of idiots... Lightning Bolt is NOT being reprinted.
Many times has a writer in Wizards said so, because of the plain and simple fact that it's too powerful for what it costs. x/3 creatures shouldn't be able to die at instant speed for one mana without a signifigant drawback. (like PTE giving you a land)
I absolutely guarantee that LB will not be printed in M10, and you can quote me on that.
As is Blue efficient creatures with built-in evasion. "Blue has the worst creatures overall" means nothing when its top-end is as good as any other color.
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Instead of complaining about Nagas having the type naga, you should complain about snake people from Kamigawa not having the type Orochibito, which would be more logical than making the naga snakes.
The whole point of creature types is grouping creatures with similar appearance / attributes though. The aven of Amonkhet are literally just humans with bird heads and wings, yet they don't have their own type. If Aven can be birds and Leonin can be cats on every plane, I see no reason why Nagas and snakes have to be split, especially since the problem of backwards compatibility exists. Also, in contrast to fish, plants, and lizards, they actually designed a commander for the snake tribe just two years ago. Sure, that's only one card. But I still don't really get why they had to establish this new type - no one would have complained if the Naga type hadn't been introduced.
wow is this the first time we are getting enemy colored duals at common, great for pauper.
Woah, really? If that's true then it's a pretty big deal. We should be talking about this more
1) They are printed at common in the Planewalkers decks, so I don't think they count for pauper. (I'm not certain though).
2) We already have the lifegain lands of Tarkir and the Ravnica bouncelands that were printed at common, and which are better than these. Check this (dated) article: http://puremtgo.com/articles/building-pauper-mana-bases
Gideon, Martial Pargon
W4 is extremely reasonably costed and splashable in a world of Aether Hub and dual lands.
Starting at 5 Loyalty that can jump to 7 off his plus ability is pretty impressive.
+2: Untap all creatures you control. Those creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn. - This allows you to untap blockers for defending Gideon, untap Crewers for newly played Vehicles, untap mana producing creatures for use after ramping Gideon out, and untap Exerted creatures before or after their Exertion. The buff can be used offensively and the pseudo-vigilance can be used defensively. All around an amazing ability.
0: Until end of turn, Gideon, Martial Paragon becomes a 5/5 Human Soldier creature with indestructible that's still a planeswalker. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn. - Standard Gideon creature ability. 5/5 size is great in a world where Ishkanah, Grafwidow is still lurking around.
-10: Creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn. Tap all creatures your opponents control. - A real finisher ultimate that can be achieved as Gideon's fourth activation if undisturbed while still leaving him alive (5+2+2+2-10=1).
These are fantastic abilities. He is a living anthem that can get in the beats with a good sized body when left alone on the battlefield. Gideon of the Trials is a fine card but is not a very good team player. His "Can't Lose" Emblem is more like Phyrexian Unlife than Platinum Angel, his size is nice but nothing amazing anymore, and his +1 ability seems underwhelming when going toe to toe with Liliana, the Last Hope's zombie emblem and associated multiple 2/2's. I really think Gideon, Martial Pargon will impress people, especially with Vehicles and Exert.
Why are the snake people Naga again? I was *just* entertaining the idea of building a Seshiro the Anointed deck.
They knew they messed up making the Naga in Tarkir not-snakes. However, I think this was a case of "switching back now will just piss more people off than sticking with naga." Especially if they continue to have naga creatures going forward.
Put another way, having Kamigawa, Tarkir, and Amonkhet snake-people ALL be compatible would be nice. But they'd rather Tarkir + Amonkhet are backwards compatible than Kamigawa + Amonkhet be backwards compatible, just because Tarkir is 10 years more recent than Kamigawa and has way more cards in current players collections.
You are free to disagree with this (I have no opinion either way) but I imagine that was their thinking.
I also feel like I'll be hated but I'm happy that the sneeple of Amonkhet are Naga and not snakes. I'm on the "give sentient and non-sentient creatures different types" train.
I don't like the Naga type because it is a term from indian mythology. It is like giving all rat-people the type "Nezumi" or all fox-people the type "Kitsune".
Fair point, but I would argue that Naga is MUCH closer to Minotaur in terms of recognizability than to Kitsune, much less Nezumi.
It's always been tertiary in green tied in someway to creatures.
Yeah you're like 10ish years late to the party on this one haha. MaRo has even said that while Harmonize is a REALLY strong bend, it's not a color pie break because green is third in card draw.
The Snake people from Kamigawa may be snakes, but Nagas are not. Nagas are Nagas.
It would be like saying a minotaur is a bull or saying a human is an ape or that a drake is a dragon. They have similar physical qualities but they are not the animals they look like. According to your arguments, you would be ok with them making angels birds humans simply because they got wings.
I do have a problem with the mummies being zombies though. A mummy is very different from a zombie. The only thing that tie them together is literally both being undead.
Wow, it seems like stronger-than-normal creatures are getting pushed a lot for this set. 1R 2/2 with a fairly useful mass looting ability? I think blue did have a 4/4 flyer with an advantage for 4 before, though, can't remember. I guess we also have an artifact 2/2 for 2 with no downside, too.
Just really odd. Nothing game-breaking, but also, wow.
That said, I kind of wonder if the Gideon deck is going to lean token-heavy, because it feels like him and his fetch card really want backup from Raise the Alarm and its ilk.
Wow, it seems like stronger-than-normal creatures are getting pushed a lot for this set. 1R 2/2 with a fairly useful mass looting ability? I think blue did have a 4/4 flyer with an advantage for 4 before, though, can't remember. I guess we also have an artifact 2/2 for 2 with no downside, too.
Just really odd. Nothing game-breaking, but also, wow.
That said, I kind of wonder if the Gideon deck is going to lean token-heavy, because it feels like him and his fetch card really want backup from Raise the Alarm and its ilk.
I also noticed this. None of these things are actually overpowered, but the willingness to push in these areas makes me uncomfortable. Precedents exist for a reason, and breaking precedent requires a reason too.
Wow, it seems like stronger-than-normal creatures are getting pushed a lot for this set. 1R 2/2 with a fairly useful mass looting ability? I think blue did have a 4/4 flyer with an advantage for 4 before, though, can't remember. I guess we also have an artifact 2/2 for 2 with no downside, too.
Just really odd. Nothing game-breaking, but also, wow.
That said, I kind of wonder if the Gideon deck is going to lean token-heavy, because it feels like him and his fetch card really want backup from Raise the Alarm and its ilk.
I also noticed this. None of these things are actually overpowered, but the willingness to push in these areas makes me uncomfortable. Precedents exist for a reason, and breaking precedent requires a reason too.
Eh, a 2 mana 2/2, even with reasonable upside isn't going to break anything in any color.
History has shown that creatures at 4 or greater mana that provide no value when they ETB are usually fair. That said a mono-black "kill anything" instant for 3 or less mana probably needs to show up for that rule to hold... Doom Blade plz don't even care if it's at rare.
Am I the only one who thinks Watchful Naga's gold chest piece looks like a different kind of snake? At any rate, that's literally some of the most aggressive green card draw ever. Exert your snake and get rewarded immediately! Also, green Wizard.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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The white exert can be constructed-worthy. It's certainly a draft power-house, given that we've seen multiple untap combat tricks in the set already. Try racing a 4/4 lifelink two drop. At least its 1 toughness means he die to pretty much any removal. Now that I think about it, given the -1/-1 theme, he may not be *that* powerful in limited.
Green naga draw-1-every-two-turns looks good in limited.
The Minotaurus is a mythical creature literally everyone is familiar though, at least in Magic's main audience in the west. The Naga? Not so much.
They could also decide to give bird-people the Aven type, since that name has a very long history in magic. But they don't and only the snakes are split into two tribes for no good reason, that's why I'm so salty right now.
Once they make a distinct race they tend not to go back. Viashino exist and Lizard Warrior won't be a thing anymore. Naga once created usurp the snakefolk. Sad thing. That's why we shouldn't want certain creature types.
Maybe we'll get combined lords one day like Howlpack Alpha and Immerwolf.
Lizard is split, also Fish and Plant. And Octopus. Horses also get covered by three or four different creature types, maybe five.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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I was gonna say the same thing. The PW deck Gideon seems quite playable, if only for the +1 and 0 abilities. The +1 ability works wonderfully with exerted creatures (and interacts with crew abilities, because of course it does).
Green draw has been a thing for a long time. It's the tertiary draw color behind blue and black.
It's always been tertiary in green tied in someway to creatures.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
The Kamigawa snake people are humanoid reptilians with four arms that happen to look like snakes and that are called Orochibito in their source mythology while the nagas are snakes with humanoid characteristics that exist in indian mythology. They have almost nothing in common except for the fact that they look like snakes.
Instead of complaining about Nagas having the type naga, you should complain about snake people from Kamigawa not having the type Orochibito, which would be more logical than making the naga snakes.
Apparently the hate boner they have for Kamigawa is very strong. It's like Tamiyo is the gonorrhea result of then having a druken one-night stand with Kamigawa after they said the didn't want to go back. They can't get rid of her, but avoid doing anything the can from having anything else that reminds them of what they did. Now that we have a non legendary cat lord their we're probably going to get a bird, jakal and crocodile lord too. Then will get a naga lord....that also effects snakes. Wizards literally just heard 'The nagas of Tarkir should have been snakes for backwards compatibility.' as 'Just use naga instead of snake for snake people from now on.'
Roughly as far back as 2005 its has been as long as its tied to a creature in some way. Harmonize was a planeshifted card that's considered a mistake now.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
“Homo homini lupus est.”
I think anyone that has played Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft and or Heartstone is more than familiar with what a Naga is.
Your argument might have been true 10 years ago but not so much anymore.
As is Blue efficient creatures with built-in evasion. "Blue has the worst creatures overall" means nothing when its top-end is as good as any other color.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
1) They are printed at common in the Planewalkers decks, so I don't think they count for pauper. (I'm not certain though).
2) We already have the lifegain lands of Tarkir and the Ravnica bouncelands that were printed at common, and which are better than these. Check this (dated) article: http://puremtgo.com/articles/building-pauper-mana-bases
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Gideon, Martial Pargon
W4 is extremely reasonably costed and splashable in a world of Aether Hub and dual lands.
Starting at 5 Loyalty that can jump to 7 off his plus ability is pretty impressive.
+2: Untap all creatures you control. Those creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn. - This allows you to untap blockers for defending Gideon, untap Crewers for newly played Vehicles, untap mana producing creatures for use after ramping Gideon out, and untap Exerted creatures before or after their Exertion. The buff can be used offensively and the pseudo-vigilance can be used defensively. All around an amazing ability.
0: Until end of turn, Gideon, Martial Paragon becomes a 5/5 Human Soldier creature with indestructible that's still a planeswalker. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn. - Standard Gideon creature ability. 5/5 size is great in a world where Ishkanah, Grafwidow is still lurking around.
-10: Creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn. Tap all creatures your opponents control. - A real finisher ultimate that can be achieved as Gideon's fourth activation if undisturbed while still leaving him alive (5+2+2+2-10=1).
These are fantastic abilities. He is a living anthem that can get in the beats with a good sized body when left alone on the battlefield. Gideon of the Trials is a fine card but is not a very good team player. His "Can't Lose" Emblem is more like Phyrexian Unlife than Platinum Angel, his size is nice but nothing amazing anymore, and his +1 ability seems underwhelming when going toe to toe with Liliana, the Last Hope's zombie emblem and associated multiple 2/2's. I really think Gideon, Martial Pargon will impress people, especially with Vehicles and Exert.
They knew they messed up making the Naga in Tarkir not-snakes. However, I think this was a case of "switching back now will just piss more people off than sticking with naga." Especially if they continue to have naga creatures going forward.
Put another way, having Kamigawa, Tarkir, and Amonkhet snake-people ALL be compatible would be nice. But they'd rather Tarkir + Amonkhet are backwards compatible than Kamigawa + Amonkhet be backwards compatible, just because Tarkir is 10 years more recent than Kamigawa and has way more cards in current players collections.
You are free to disagree with this (I have no opinion either way) but I imagine that was their thinking.
Fair point, but I would argue that Naga is MUCH closer to Minotaur in terms of recognizability than to Kitsune, much less Nezumi.
Yeah you're like 10ish years late to the party on this one haha. MaRo has even said that while Harmonize is a REALLY strong bend, it's not a color pie break because green is third in card draw.
It would be like saying a minotaur is a bull or saying a human is an ape or that a drake is a dragon. They have similar physical qualities but they are not the animals they look like. According to your arguments, you would be ok with them making angels birds humans simply because they got wings.
I do have a problem with the mummies being zombies though. A mummy is very different from a zombie. The only thing that tie them together is literally both being undead.
Just really odd. Nothing game-breaking, but also, wow.
That said, I kind of wonder if the Gideon deck is going to lean token-heavy, because it feels like him and his fetch card really want backup from Raise the Alarm and its ilk.
I also noticed this. None of these things are actually overpowered, but the willingness to push in these areas makes me uncomfortable. Precedents exist for a reason, and breaking precedent requires a reason too.
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Eh, a 2 mana 2/2, even with reasonable upside isn't going to break anything in any color.
History has shown that creatures at 4 or greater mana that provide no value when they ETB are usually fair. That said a mono-black "kill anything" instant for 3 or less mana probably needs to show up for that rule to hold... Doom Blade plz don't even care if it's at rare.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.