117.6a If an unpayable cost is increased by an effect or an additional cost is imposed, the cost is still unpayable. If an alternative cost is applied to an unpayable cost, including an effect that allows a player to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the alternative cost may be paid. #
Card says
you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana
cost for a spell you cast
To me it seems no av since you cannot cast av if not From suspend so the alternate cost isnt added
117.6a If an unpayable cost is increased by an effect or an additional cost is imposed, the cost is still unpayable. If an alternative cost is applied to an unpayable cost, including an effect that allows a player to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the alternative cost may be paid. #
Card says
you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana
cost for a spell you cast
To me it seems no av since you cannot cast av if not From suspend so the alternate cost isnt added
Sorry if i quote myself but shouldnt it work that way? You want to cast it first and enchant triggers giving you the Opportunity to pay 0?
117.6a If an unpayable cost is increased by an effect or an additional cost is imposed, the cost is still unpayable. If an alternative cost is applied to an unpayable cost, including an effect that allows a player to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the alternative cost may be paid. #
Card says
you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana
cost for a spell you cast
To me it seems no av since you cannot cast av if not From suspend so the alternate cost isnt added
You're neither increasing nor adding any additional costs but rather giving it an alternate cost, which can be paid.
Spell you cast is ambiguos
Who is the one of the tweet?
117.6a If an unpayable cost is increased by an effect or an additional cost is imposed, the cost is still unpayable. If an alternative cost is applied to an unpayable cost, including an effect that allows a player to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the alternative cost may be paid. #
Card says
you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana
cost for a spell you cast
To me it seems no av since you cannot cast av if not From suspend so the alternate cost isnt added
WotC Twitter publicly stated that Ancestral Vision can be cast with this card.
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Vorthos-y Johnny. All will be One
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
Ugh. I hate these kinds of cards.Its either mediocre to good or bonkers. Regarding AV, I think it works, more or less because even with the AF in play the earliest you could get your first AV out is turn 3, just a turn sooner than if you suspend it. Of course, AV 2-4 would be nuts so there is that.
So if I cast SCM, does this allow me to cast any I or S for free in my gy(based on counters on AF)?
Then there is the casting cost. 3 mana is a hefty price and it is well within AD's reach. Also, it will have to be in at least three turns to see serious return on the value(suspend cards excluded of course).
To me, it looks like a serious attempt at making reactive control viable again. Play out your mana leaks early and then by turn 5/6 you should have enough counters of AF to free cast cancel and a turn later hitting CC.
The one spell per turn seems like a way to mitigate its impact in storm type decks since they always seem to break blue's toys.
Seems pretty legit. IDK. Three mana is a lot but three cards the turn it etbf might make it worth it. Very interesting design but I think it might be just a bit over costed to be an all star. I could be totally wrong but turn 4 is when you want things to be happening and this gives you a 1 drop or less. Eh, even a free serum vision is pretty solid turn four....
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
This absolutely requires counterspells to survive. But when your counters should be free or 1 mana by the second turn after this thing has been out that isn't really terrible, is it?
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Still i cant believe it. Guy from the tweet must be wrong .
117.6. Some mana costs contain no mana symbols. This represents an unpayable cost. An ability can also have an unpayable cost if its cost is based on the mana cost of an object with no mana cost. Attempting to cast a spell or activate an ability that has an unpayable cost is a legal action. However, attempting to pay an unpayable cost is an illegal action. #
117.6a If an unpayable cost is increased by an effect or an additional cost is imposed, the cost is still unpayable. If an alternative cost is applied to an unpayable cost, including an effect that allows a player to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the alternative cost may be paid. #
From the mtg rules
Rule 117.6 says it is a legal action to attempt to cast a spell with an unpayable cost(no mana symbols), but attempting to pay for it is illegal
117.6a clarifies that additional costs still have the cost be unpayable, but alternative costs can be applied and may be paid.
So in this case you attempt to cast AV, which is a legal move, then this card gives AV an alternative mana cost which may be paid.
This absolutely requires counterspells to survive. But when your counters should be free or 1 mana by the second turn after this thing has been out that isn't really terrible, is it?
This doesn't work like that-
you either get a free spell of X or less, or nothing.
It doesn't reduce costs until it reduces them to 0.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Man, I wish Kari Zev's Expertise were Abrupt Decay bait and didn't require targeting a creature that survives. Both that Expertise and As Foretold will be used to cheat out an uncastable card with 0 cmc in Modern the turn they resolve. (Oh, and they both cost 3 mana.)
My biggest worry about this card is tapping out on turn 3 to play it and do nothing. However, the combo with Lotus Bloom seems very very strong.
Exile bloom, and on turn 4 cast foretold for free, and have mana up to protect it. Or cast Foretold on turn 3, and play lotus bloom and have mana up to protect it. Casting AV for free is awesome, but doesn't win games. However, what wins games in my mind is basically always having mana up for counters and allowing you to play large end game cards with multiple layers of protection up.
This definitely has my brewing juices flowing.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Question is will this hit the price range of aether vial
Because this is better than that despite being 2 CMC more.
The one no only reason that can prevent this from being so high is Omniscience
Let's not get silly now. Aether Vial costs 1 and allows you to dodge countermagic.
If it had to wait until t3 to come down and could be easily countered,
it would not be anywhere near as good.
That said, this card is still quite good.
I give you that.
definately pick up a copy for edh.
Unless it doesn't get banned.
Then again kozilek, the great distortion (Eldrazi) decks with paradox engine still diden't cause the engine to get ban this could be the same case. Only in decks with atleast blue Ofcoarse.
Now watch all the 0 mana cards from time spiral skyrocket. This one definitely seems playable. Free spell every turn? Yes please. Oh and this thing lets you play counters for free on your opponent's turn too.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
Now watch all the 0 mana cards from time spiral skyrocket. This one definitely seems playable. Free spell every turn? Yes please. Oh and this thing lets you play counters for free on your opponent's turn too.
Restore Balance has already doubled in price since yesterday.
I figured I better get mine before they hit the standard $50 that all good Rares from that block cost
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Also seems deviously fun with Inexorable Tide and extra turn spells.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
It does not specify "from hand" so it should work fine with flashback. Also X spells, after a few turns. But not any other alternate costs, afaik.
Flashback is an alternate cost and you cannot mix alternate costs, so no, flashback does not work.
(Rules: 702.33a - "Casting a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2f–h." 117.9a - "Only one alternative cost can be applied to any one spell as it’s being cast. The controller of the spell announces his or her intentions to pay that cost as described in rule 601.2b.")
It should work with x spells though I think
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
This card is broken in modern. Plays like the old splinter twin decks but instead you just kill all creatures and lands then get to cast all your spells for free for the rest of the match and the finish them with a 9/7. I don't think the pure combo focus is good and think a tempo combo mix is best.
Here is an example
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Spirebluff Canal
3x Steam Vents
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Restore Balance
4x Serum Visions
2x Sleight of Hand
2x Claws of Gix
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Remand
4x Greater Gargadon
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x as foretold
This card is broken in modern. Plays like the old splinter twin decks but instead you just kill all creatures and lands then get to cast all your spells for free for the rest of the match and the finish them with a 9/7. I don't think the pure combo focus is good and think a tempo combo mix is best.
Here is an example
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Spirebluff Canal
3x Steam Vents
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Restore Balance
4x Serum Visions
2x Sleight of Hand
2x Claws of Gix
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Remand
4x Greater Gargadon
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x as foretold
No it's not. It does not win the game on the spot from turn 4 on. And whiping the whole board including lands is a 3 card combo (AF, RB and a sac outlet like gargadon). Restore Balance and Gargadon are both terrible without any other cards.
There is potential for a sweet brew but I have yet to see a list that has the potencial to 'break modern'.
If you wanna brew with this, consider Kari Zev's Expterise for additional (bad) copies of As Foretold. Extra style points if you sac the stolen creature to a Gargadon.
I think this needs fast mana in the form of Simian Spirit Guide to really shine.
I'm thinking of decks that cheat out a Blood Moon early using the same technique.
My dream:
Turn 1: Land, suspend Ancestral Vision (5/6 cards in hand)
Turn 2: Land, Simian Spirit Guide, As Foretold (3/4 cards in hand, 3 counters on Vision)
If you're on the draw just cast the first Restore Balance to set your opponent back on lands/cards/creatures.
From there on it should be relatively easy to control the game. At least it looks that way in my fantasy.
Card says
you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana
cost for a spell you cast
To me it seems no av since you cannot cast av if not From suspend so the alternate cost isnt added
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Sorry if i quote myself but shouldnt it work that way? You want to cast it first and enchant triggers giving you the Opportunity to pay 0?
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Spell you cast is ambiguos
Who is the one of the tweet?
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
WotC Twitter publicly stated that Ancestral Vision can be cast with this card.
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Spirits
So if I cast SCM, does this allow me to cast any I or S for free in my gy(based on counters on AF)?
Then there is the casting cost. 3 mana is a hefty price and it is well within AD's reach. Also, it will have to be in at least three turns to see serious return on the value(suspend cards excluded of course).
To me, it looks like a serious attempt at making reactive control viable again. Play out your mana leaks early and then by turn 5/6 you should have enough counters of AF to free cast cancel and a turn later hitting CC.
The one spell per turn seems like a way to mitigate its impact in storm type decks since they always seem to break blue's toys.
Seems pretty legit. IDK. Three mana is a lot but three cards the turn it etbf might make it worth it. Very interesting design but I think it might be just a bit over costed to be an all star. I could be totally wrong but turn 4 is when you want things to be happening and this gives you a 1 drop or less. Eh, even a free serum vision is pretty solid turn four....
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
-Chandra Nalaar
117.6. Some mana costs contain no mana symbols. This represents an unpayable cost. An ability can also have an unpayable cost if its cost is based on the mana cost of an object with no mana cost. Attempting to cast a spell or activate an ability that has an unpayable cost is a legal action. However, attempting to pay an unpayable cost is an illegal action. #
117.6a If an unpayable cost is increased by an effect or an additional cost is imposed, the cost is still unpayable. If an alternative cost is applied to an unpayable cost, including an effect that allows a player to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the alternative cost may be paid. #
From the mtg rules
Rule 117.6 says it is a legal action to attempt to cast a spell with an unpayable cost(no mana symbols), but attempting to pay for it is illegal
117.6a clarifies that additional costs still have the cost be unpayable, but alternative costs can be applied and may be paid.
So in this case you attempt to cast AV, which is a legal move, then this card gives AV an alternative mana cost which may be paid.
This doesn't work like that-
you either get a free spell of X or less, or nothing.
It doesn't reduce costs until it reduces them to 0.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Man, I wish Kari Zev's Expertise were Abrupt Decay bait and didn't require targeting a creature that survives. Both that Expertise and As Foretold will be used to cheat out an uncastable card with 0 cmc in Modern the turn they resolve. (Oh, and they both cost 3 mana.)
Exile bloom, and on turn 4 cast foretold for free, and have mana up to protect it. Or cast Foretold on turn 3, and play lotus bloom and have mana up to protect it. Casting AV for free is awesome, but doesn't win games. However, what wins games in my mind is basically always having mana up for counters and allowing you to play large end game cards with multiple layers of protection up.
This definitely has my brewing juices flowing.
I give you that.
definately pick up a copy for edh.
Unless it doesn't get banned.
Then again kozilek, the great distortion (Eldrazi) decks with paradox engine still diden't cause the engine to get ban this could be the same case. Only in decks with atleast blue Ofcoarse.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Restore Balance has already doubled in price since yesterday.
I figured I better get mine before they hit the standard $50 that all good Rares from that block cost
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
You mean like Jhoira's Timebug?
Also seems deviously fun with Inexorable Tide and extra turn spells.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Flashback is an alternate cost and you cannot mix alternate costs, so no, flashback does not work.
(Rules: 702.33a - "Casting a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2f–h." 117.9a - "Only one alternative cost can be applied to any one spell as it’s being cast. The controller of the spell announces his or her intentions to pay that cost as described in rule 601.2b.")
It should work with x spells though I think
Yes we will know. You can cast Ancestral Vision off of Fist of Suns, so it stands to reason that you can cast it off of As Foretold as well.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Here is an example
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Spirebluff Canal
3x Steam Vents
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Restore Balance
4x Serum Visions
2x Sleight of Hand
2x Claws of Gix
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Remand
4x Greater Gargadon
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x as foretold
No it's not. It does not win the game on the spot from turn 4 on. And whiping the whole board including lands is a 3 card combo (AF, RB and a sac outlet like gargadon). Restore Balance and Gargadon are both terrible without any other cards.
There is potential for a sweet brew but I have yet to see a list that has the potencial to 'break modern'.
If you wanna brew with this, consider Kari Zev's Expterise for additional (bad) copies of As Foretold. Extra style points if you sac the stolen creature to a Gargadon.
I'm thinking of decks that cheat out a Blood Moon early using the same technique.
My dream:
Turn 1: Land, suspend Ancestral Vision (5/6 cards in hand)
Turn 2: Land, Simian Spirit Guide, As Foretold (3/4 cards in hand, 3 counters on Vision)
If you're on the draw just cast the first Restore Balance to set your opponent back on lands/cards/creatures.
From there on it should be relatively easy to control the game. At least it looks that way in my fantasy.