[quote from="GW2GuruUser7586 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/753588-new-planeswalker-dovin-baan-vedalken-confirmed-for?comment=75"]We have been told that all stories won't involve all of the gatewatch, and we already know Jace and Gideon won't be there so its already true.
How do we know Jace and Gideon won't be there? My theory has him in the 2nd set. If he's not there then I guess we get another Nissa in the 2nd set.
</blockquote>
Planeswalkers can be involved without getting a card. See Ugin and Jace in BFZ block; Gideon, Chandra, and Nissa in SOI block...
Their likelihood of appearing does not verify in any fashion that they'll receive a card, only art notice.
And while you are correct in that the wording does not guarantee 100% that he is from Kaladesh, he is also a Vedalken with 5 fingers on each hand and ears, which is thus far unique to Kaladesh. Ravnican Vedalken are just members of the Blue Man Group, Mirran Vedalken have 4 arms, and Esper Vedalken have etherium all up on their bodies. And none of them have ears.
I thought we were told that this would NOT be a Gatewatch story?
We have been told that all stories won't involve all of the gatewatch, and we already know Jace and Gideon won't be there so its already true.
How do we know Jace and Gideon won't be there? My theory has him in the 2nd set. If he's not there then I guess we get another Nissa in the 2nd set.
Planeswalkers can be involved without getting a card. See Ugin and Jace in BFZ block; Gideon, Chandra, and Nissa in SOI block...
Their likelihood of appearing does not verify in any fashion that they'll receive a card, only art notice.
And while you are correct in that the wording does not guarantee 100% that he is from Kaladesh, he is also a Vedalken with 5 fingers on each hand and ears, which is thus far unique to Kaladesh. Ravnican Vedalken are just members of the Blue Man Group, Mirran Vedalken have 4 arms, and Esper Vedalken have etherium all up on their bodies. And none of them have ears.
Nobody you quoted was talking about the new Vedalken Dovin Baan. Also Simic Vedalken's had four arms, Vigean Graftmage. This is the first I noticed the ear thing, interesting.
With the current set up Jace has no reason to show up in either block and at least one reason to not show up, him being 'needed' on Ravnica. Gideon also has no reason to be there, while Nissa, Chandra and Liliana are all heading there already.
Puzzle quest isn't produced by WotC and there is evidence that the things they do in the game don't necessarily align with proper Magic ideals. Nothing Puzzle Quest puts forth should be considered canon.
Oh, MaRo, the one that is always trying to divert people from the obvius. (The recent emrakul reveal show how he is willing to conceal things (even though not lying)
Notice that what maro states is that "Note that Puzzle Quest is not produced by Wizards." He don't deny that things in this game might align with the actual MTG. Some mechanical things on it might not be the same, but this don't rule out that The producers of the game needs to follow guidelines made by Wizards. (Such as respecting the chacters colors)
Unless he completely confirm otherwise, I think this is more than enough proof considering all we have now.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Gatewatch vs. obstructive bureaucracy and a threat that they can't just burn to death. It would be hilarious if Chandra is suddenly the law-savvy one, because she has some, if not a very good, knowledge of the workings of Kaladesh.
Of course, chances of Wizards doing story with that kind of depth are pretty low. I understand all the hate for the Gatewatch, but I've enjoyed all the story with them. I honestly think the concept is pretty cool, and has potential in spite of what the haters say. It's just the execution that's lacking.
So... Three (!) native Kaladesh planeswalkers in the block named Kaladesh?
Brilliant.
I don't think Dovin is native to Kaladesh. There's nothing in his story that suggests he's native - just that he spends a lot of time there. With his talents with artifacts he probably wants to live on a plane with lots of them.
Several times in the story they call him a Kaladeshi Vedalken and the wizard blog confirm that all Kaladeshi Vedalken have six fingers;
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm looking forward to seeing the Gatewatch vs. obstructive bureaucracy and a threat that they can't just burn to death. It would be hilarious if Chandra is suddenly the law-savvy one, because she has some, if not a very good, knowledge of the workings of Kaladesh.
Of course, chances of Wizards doing story with that kind of depth are pretty low. I understand all the hate for the Gatewatch, but I've enjoyed all the story with them. I honestly think the concept is pretty cool, and has potential in spite of what the haters say. It's just the execution that's lacking.
They have not done stuff like that since the original Ravnica (where the Azorius were the villain, who abused the law).
Planeswalkers can be involved without getting a card. See Ugin and Jace in BFZ block; Gideon, Chandra, and Nissa in SOI block...
Their likelihood of appearing does not verify in any fashion that they'll receive a card, only art notice.
And while you are correct in that the wording does not guarantee 100% that he is from Kaladesh, he is also a Vedalken with 5 fingers on each hand and ears, which is thus far unique to Kaladesh. Ravnican Vedalken are just members of the Blue Man Group, Mirran Vedalken have 4 arms, and Esper Vedalken have etherium all up on their bodies. And none of them have ears.
Nobody you quoted was talking about the new Vedalken Dovin Baan. Also Simic Vedalken's had four arms, Vigean Graftmage. This is the first I noticed the ear thing, interesting.
With the current set up Jace has no reason to show up in either block and at least one reason to not show up, him being 'needed' on Ravnica. Gideon also has no reason to be there, while Nissa, Chandra and Liliana are all heading there already.
GW2GuruUser was the one who postulated that Baan might not be from Kaladesh. I just figured I'd try and save space by not including that relevant post, as they would know from their own history what I was referring too.
Many apologies if that ended up being confusing.
Some of the Simic experimental vedalken had multiple arms, but it's not a trait of the Vedalken of Ravnica in general. You'll note that the Vigean Graftmage is also labelled a mutant.
Now then, this line-up feels a bit stilted, so Tezzy being the B(and Blue) walker would fit. Amusingly instantly reprinting Rakdos Daretti would also play well here, as the B walker for the block. You might have noticed all these ideas end up doubling in colors, but that's actually fine because the plane itself is heavy in blue from the lore, or red (for Chandra) in the plot. The same way that Innistrad (the first time) was 2.5 walkers in black (Garruk sorta counts), and Theros had three green walkers.
As for order, Chandra being in Aether Revolt makes more sense than Chandra in Kaladesh, since our current protag from the Gatewatch is Nissa. As she's going with Dovin to find what Chandra's up to, leaving Chandra to headline once she decides to 'quit *****ing and start a revolution' as she has some aspects of her past to work out.
Now then, this line-up feels a bit stilted, so Tezzy being the B(and Blue) walker would fit. Amusingly instantly reprinting Rakdos Daretti would also play well here, as the B walker for the block. You might have noticed all these ideas end up doubling in colors, but that's actually fine because the plane itself is heavy in blue from the lore, or red (for Chandra) in the plot. The same way that Innistrad (the first time) was 2.5 walkers in black (Garruk sorta counts), and Theros had three green walkers.
As for order, Chandra being in Aether Revolt makes more sense than Chandra in Kaladesh, since our current protag from the Gatewatch is Nissa. As she's going with Dovin to find what Chandra's up to, leaving Chandra to headline once she decides to 'quit *****ing and start a revolution' as she has some aspects of her past to work out.
I'm pretty sure we were told that Chandra was headlining the first Planeswalker Deck come Kaladesh, and subsequently would have a different card in the set proper, as that's what the decks do.
So, it's far more likely that our Planeswalkers for Kaladesh are Saheeli, Dovin, and Chandra, then two others come Aether Revolt. Probably Nissa, but maybe not.
To anybody complaining about the Gatewatch being forced in: They are not. They initially refused to get involved as the Gatewatch. Chandra, Liliana and Nissa, though, have now travelled there out of personal desire.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Although technically Puzzle Quest isn't produced by wizards, note that all of the planeswalker colors have been correct so far, and Chandra's mana bonuses were fixed long ago. I would be very surprised if they did in fact give Saheeli the wrong color identity.
Dovin Baan will definitely be a blue walker. As for side influences it remains to be seen... I'm personally thinking white, coz UW is associated with flying, and flying includes things like thopters, as well as their past history in Magic cards. For draft/development reasons, he "should" be the "white" representative, until something concrete comes along.
Saheeli is as what the game Puzzle Quest suggests. UR. I like to use Occam's Razor, and recommend most of you do. Puzzle Quest wouldn't be so confident to drape her in the colors of Blue and Red if they didn't get permission. And Wizards being Wizards, protective of their intellectual property, would want to enforce this in order not to misinform people. C'mon man, common sense. Don't try to be hip just because you think you can.
Just a further point on Saheeli. Why did they make her look like some candy floss from the carnival? My second thought when I saw her: Mahou Shoujo (magical girl). They even gave here a big lollipop of a magical staff. Cosplayer rather than a walker IMO. LOL
He looks really cool.
The UR story made him appear almost cartoonishly stuck up, but it was funny imo. I know it's a stereotype, but I can't imagine him not speaking with a posh british accent.
Regarding his colors, I think he's UW too. Nothing about his character screams "red". The heavy red in his art may just be a feature of Kaladesh as a plane, just like many things on Innistrad tend to "look black". I'm not a fan of all-too-heavy color coding in artwork, so I kind of hope he doesn't turn out to be part R in the end.
To anybody complaining about the Gatewatch being forced in: They are not. They initially refused to get involved as the Gatewatch. Chandra, Liliana and Nissa, though, have now travelled there out of personal desire.
Ehm... For me that counts as "being forced in".
Why? Because they didn't wnat to go, but went anyway because "plot".
So you would have been happier if they accepted the guard job? I think everyone else would have been really annoyed if after defeating the Eldrazi Titans the gatewatch's next official mission was guards at a fair. Also it would have involved the entire gatewatch, something I know a lot of people here would be upset about. The way it was handled felt more natural than if they had accepted the job to go there, and is actually splitting up the watch so they can do multiple things.
I find it funny how Dovin went to the Gatewatch for help and in the end managed to recruit them against himself. Makes their involvement seem less forced to me. (as a side note, I hope that a return to Theros with Dack vs. Ashiok, which is set up for quite some time, didn't get axed for not having enough Gatewatch)
Concerning his abilities, here are a few ideas:
We have so far one in-game sign of "imperfection", and that is unequal power and toughness (as seen on gilt-leaf winnower). He could be able to exile such creatures.
Another possibility would be "perfecting" your own stuff. Something along the lines of "-X: exile a creature or artifact you control. Create a token that is a copy of that permanent, except it is an X/X artifact creature"
Yeah, there's absolutely nothing red about him in this week's story. He is emotionally detached, obsessed with organization and a ridiculously practical person, which should make him almost definitely blue-white.
To anybody complaining about the Gatewatch being forced in: They are not. They initially refused to get involved as the Gatewatch. Chandra, Liliana and Nissa, though, have now travelled there out of personal desire.
Ehm... For me that counts as "being forced in".
Why? Because they didn't wnat to go, but went anyway because "plot".
EDIT: unless you mean "forced into action by something or someone else".
Did you read the story? The members of the Gatewatch that are going do so because they want to and not in their role of Gatewatchers. Chandra is drunk with rage and evoked despair and Lili is obviously being a horrible influence to secretly further her own agenda. Nissa is simply going out of friendship. This is not a Gatewatch story (they flat out refused participation), it is a Chandra story and it just happens that she is a Gatewatcher.
Also, note that Dovin is a carefully calculating person. It seems extremely suspicious to me that he made the "mistake" of misunderstanding the Gatewatch's mission and approached them with a mundane event policing request and then learned that "coincidentally" a member of the GW was a wanted person from his plane. He may had been targeting Chandra from the get go.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
After reading the story, I'm thinking Dovin Baan in the UW portion of the color pie. In the story he doesn't seem emotional at all. He doesn't have any impulsive traits typical of red walkers. Chandra in the story is the queen of impulse and letting her emotions get the best of her. He actively seeks to follow the rules. This was evident in his agreeing to stick around for something to eat before leaving at Gideon's request. Another bit of evidence towards his white alignment is when he describes how what happened to Chandra's parents was not sanctioned and that the person responsible was dealt with by the "law." Everything about him is carefully scripted. He doesn't take a single step without calculating how he is to move his limbs it seems. At the same time, you get the overwhelming feeling that he is plotting something. Scheming is a blue trait. One of the things he does is observe all imperfections. He is constantly taking in information about everything.
Of course this is all just my interpretation of his character. Who knows, maybe he is Blue black aligned? The feeling that he has an ulterior motive could be a hint that he is selfish at the expense of others. He certainly fits the blue piece of the pie concerning intellect and technology. He is the flaw observer after all. So maybe his observation of rules is actually for selfish reasons like Lilliana joining the Gate Watch. Manipulate the GW to snuff out his adversaries so he can then gain control.
Anyway, theory time is over. There will be much more to learn as the set draws near.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
My guess is that the planeswalker decks will be Nissa and Saheeli in Kaladesh and Chandra and Baan in Aether Revolt. I would be somewhat surprised if we continue to see planeswalker duel decks after the Nissa vs Ob one, since it seems the planeswalker decks would fill that space fairly well, but I guess we'll have a better idea tomorrow.
Planeswalkers can be involved without getting a card. See Ugin and Jace in BFZ block; Gideon, Chandra, and Nissa in SOI block...
Their likelihood of appearing does not verify in any fashion that they'll receive a card, only art notice.
And while you are correct in that the wording does not guarantee 100% that he is from Kaladesh, he is also a Vedalken with 5 fingers on each hand and ears, which is thus far unique to Kaladesh. Ravnican Vedalken are just members of the Blue Man Group, Mirran Vedalken have 4 arms, and Esper Vedalken have etherium all up on their bodies. And none of them have ears.
I look forward to seeing the card.
With the current set up Jace has no reason to show up in either block and at least one reason to not show up, him being 'needed' on Ravnica. Gideon also has no reason to be there, while Nissa, Chandra and Liliana are all heading there already.
I meant in a while. The last few planeswalkers (Narset, Arlinn Kord, and Saheeli Rai all been human).
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
Notice that what maro states is that "Note that Puzzle Quest is not produced by Wizards." He don't deny that things in this game might align with the actual MTG. Some mechanical things on it might not be the same, but this don't rule out that The producers of the game needs to follow guidelines made by Wizards. (Such as respecting the chacters colors)
Unless he completely confirm otherwise, I think this is more than enough proof considering all we have now.
Of course, chances of Wizards doing story with that kind of depth are pretty low. I understand all the hate for the Gatewatch, but I've enjoyed all the story with them. I honestly think the concept is pretty cool, and has potential in spite of what the haters say. It's just the execution that's lacking.
Several times in the story they call him a Kaladeshi Vedalken and the wizard blog confirm that all Kaladeshi Vedalken have six fingers;
http://wizardsmagic.tumblr.com/post/149668997301/do-all-the-vedalken-of-kaladesh-have-six-fingers#notes
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
They have not done stuff like that since the original Ravnica (where the Azorius were the villain, who abused the law).
GW2GuruUser was the one who postulated that Baan might not be from Kaladesh. I just figured I'd try and save space by not including that relevant post, as they would know from their own history what I was referring too.
Many apologies if that ended up being confusing.
Some of the Simic experimental vedalken had multiple arms, but it's not a trait of the Vedalken of Ravnica in general. You'll note that the Vigean Graftmage is also labelled a mutant.
W(and Blue): Dovin Baan
U(and Red): Saheeli Rai
B: Liliana
R: Chandra
G: Nissa
Now then, this line-up feels a bit stilted, so Tezzy being the B(and Blue) walker would fit. Amusingly instantly reprinting Rakdos Daretti would also play well here, as the B walker for the block. You might have noticed all these ideas end up doubling in colors, but that's actually fine because the plane itself is heavy in blue from the lore, or red (for Chandra) in the plot. The same way that Innistrad (the first time) was 2.5 walkers in black (Garruk sorta counts), and Theros had three green walkers.
As for order, Chandra being in Aether Revolt makes more sense than Chandra in Kaladesh, since our current protag from the Gatewatch is Nissa. As she's going with Dovin to find what Chandra's up to, leaving Chandra to headline once she decides to 'quit *****ing and start a revolution' as she has some aspects of her past to work out.
I'm pretty sure we were told that Chandra was headlining the first Planeswalker Deck come Kaladesh, and subsequently would have a different card in the set proper, as that's what the decks do.
So, it's far more likely that our Planeswalkers for Kaladesh are Saheeli, Dovin, and Chandra, then two others come Aether Revolt. Probably Nissa, but maybe not.
Saheeli is as what the game Puzzle Quest suggests. UR. I like to use Occam's Razor, and recommend most of you do. Puzzle Quest wouldn't be so confident to drape her in the colors of Blue and Red if they didn't get permission. And Wizards being Wizards, protective of their intellectual property, would want to enforce this in order not to misinform people. C'mon man, common sense. Don't try to be hip just because you think you can.
Just a further point on Saheeli. Why did they make her look like some candy floss from the carnival? My second thought when I saw her: Mahou Shoujo (magical girl). They even gave here a big lollipop of a magical staff. Cosplayer rather than a walker IMO. LOL
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
The UR story made him appear almost cartoonishly stuck up, but it was funny imo. I know it's a stereotype, but I can't imagine him not speaking with a posh british accent.
Regarding his colors, I think he's UW too. Nothing about his character screams "red". The heavy red in his art may just be a feature of Kaladesh as a plane, just like many things on Innistrad tend to "look black". I'm not a fan of all-too-heavy color coding in artwork, so I kind of hope he doesn't turn out to be part R in the end.
Concerning his abilities, here are a few ideas:
We have so far one in-game sign of "imperfection", and that is unequal power and toughness (as seen on gilt-leaf winnower). He could be able to exile such creatures.
Another possibility would be "perfecting" your own stuff. Something along the lines of "-X: exile a creature or artifact you control. Create a token that is a copy of that permanent, except it is an X/X artifact creature"
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Ob nixilus,sorin, kiora and nissa dissagree. Arlinn was also a werewolf. Im pretty certain it is about a 50/50 split at this point
Did you read the story? The members of the Gatewatch that are going do so because they want to and not in their role of Gatewatchers. Chandra is drunk with rage and evoked despair and Lili is obviously being a horrible influence to secretly further her own agenda. Nissa is simply going out of friendship. This is not a Gatewatch story (they flat out refused participation), it is a Chandra story and it just happens that she is a Gatewatcher.
Also, note that Dovin is a carefully calculating person. It seems extremely suspicious to me that he made the "mistake" of misunderstanding the Gatewatch's mission and approached them with a mundane event policing request and then learned that "coincidentally" a member of the GW was a wanted person from his plane. He may had been targeting Chandra from the get go.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Of course this is all just my interpretation of his character. Who knows, maybe he is Blue black aligned? The feeling that he has an ulterior motive could be a hint that he is selfish at the expense of others. He certainly fits the blue piece of the pie concerning intellect and technology. He is the flaw observer after all. So maybe his observation of rules is actually for selfish reasons like Lilliana joining the Gate Watch. Manipulate the GW to snuff out his adversaries so he can then gain control.
Anyway, theory time is over. There will be much more to learn as the set draws near.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Those characters had all been introduced already. I was talking about new planeswalkers only.
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles