Not excited about this one. Four color decks are so messy and the mana bases are so expensive or clunky, I really dislike them. I can't see myself building a deck with any 4 color Commander unless it happens to be one of my dream commanders (aka squirrel tribal, werewolf/wolf tribal or a "force attacks and punish for attacking" Commander. Can't see any of those in 4 color and wouldn't want them in 4 color). This also dashes my hope of a pushed R/G werewolf commander. I know they can still put it in Eldrich Moon, but I fear it will be watered down if it appears in a normal Magic set.
I guess I'll be looking forward to the reprints and new non-legend cards. And tokens! Please reprint Sengir Autocrat so we can finally get those amazing Serf tokens in paper!
I will accept this if there is a W/U/B/R Urza artifact theme.
Sadly, I doubt this would be the case. I'm pretty sure they said once that they are very careful of one product being more "desireable" than the others, causing weird shortages (read: Mind Seize, aka. Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge's deck). If they printed a deck where freaking Urza was the face card, I know which one I would be buying, playability be damned.
As for the decks... well, all I really want is that we get a real four-color face Commander and a secondary, four-color identity Commander. We've been waiting for real four-color legends for way too long. Giving us anything else would be like saying "hey, here's a really cool five-color card for your five-color decks!" and giving us Transguild Courier.
I'm also lukewarm about this. I just can't afford to get a bunch of duals/shocks to make these decks function, and Sedris is my concession to "more than two colours and hideously expensive" Commander decks. I'll check out the lists and probably get one to go if it has good reprints or a really unique commander concept, but otherwise I'm "MEH!" about this. I would have preferred two-colour or wedge.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I'd say 4c decks and commanders make no sense. I would so much more like the idea of various 5c commanders. Spellslinger one? Got it. Enchantress? We've got you covered. Artifact shenanigans? Here you are. This 5c tribal changeling guy for your elves/humans/goblins/treefolks/zombies/birds/allies/whatever? Here.
Eh. I'd have preferred allied colored Commanders. If there are cool cards in the decks I'm cool with it, though. Hopefully the Legendaries are interesting too. We all know anything Theros themed is going to be welcome by me.
Kaladesh... eh. I wanted Egyptian World. And if not that, then Vryn. I didn't like Kaladesh but whatever. MTG has been crazy anyway so I don't mind sitting out a set.
I know you love Jace, but Vryn was probably the least interesting plane they have mentioned in the past 10 years. Kaladesh is quite literally Steampunk India flavored with Esper.
Well this is fun. Awkwardly colored cards for all!
I was thinking allied pairs would be the theme, but hats off for them trying something new (however silly).
Four Colored Commanders have been one of the highest demands to Wizards of the Coast since... at least 2012. This isn't just an experiment; it's filling in one of their longest running requests for the format.
Yep. You could see something like a WUBR artifact commander or something of that nature. Okay, WUBR's the only really easy one to do this with.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
smh@people whining about them not doing Ally colors
Do you really need another UW commander? Or any other ally-color commander? There are 30 options in each pair and they are all boring.
And then here they give us something legitimately new and exciting and all you care about is not getting another dumb UW wizard that taps things and draws cards.
Eh. I'd have preferred allied colored Commanders. If there are cool cards in the decks I'm cool with it, though. Hopefully the Legendaries are interesting too. We all know anything Theros themed is going to be welcome by me.
Kaladesh... eh. I wanted Egyptian World. And if not that, then Vryn. I didn't like Kaladesh but whatever. MTG has been crazy anyway so I don't mind sitting out a set.
I know you love Jace, but Vryn was probably the least interesting plane they have mentioned in the past 10 years. Kaladesh is quite literally Steampunk India flavored with Esper.
I always thought a great way to introduce "4 color commanders" would be when they returned to Ravnica and had legends with off color activated abilities of the other guilds similar to the Khans in Fate Reforged.
I really hope that these commanders don't adopt this style. Advertising such commanders as "four-color commanders" is wrong by definition. "Commanders with four colors in their color identity" or "commanders that use four colors" would be more appropriate terms to describe them.
I understand that it's been said four-color design space is small. But falling back on the FRF-style legendary creature design is failing to meet the expectations that get brought up by the term "four-color commander".
They could build all five to actually hate on the missing color.
Think: Rakdos centered deck splashing U+G and then Gloom, Blood Knight,...
I really hope that the commanders focus on the four colors that they are rather than the one color that they aren't. It's really easy to make cards that hate on a certain color, by imposing certain extra hoops for them to go through or preventing them from taking certain game actions altogether. But it's much harder to find abilities that make the card feel like it deserves all four of its colors. Even if one or two of the colors are "less represented" than the other two or three, it's still better than defaulting to the hate-on-the-missing-color approach.
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How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
4 color hybrid mana cost commanders like reaper king. maybe they are all tribal lords and they also will have some sort of allied pair costed activated ability. So you can build them as all 4 colors or cut them down to 2 color allied pair.
Uh, no. We already have Ghave, Guru of Spores as a WBG Saproling commander. Adding red would only serve to make it more combo-y, which Ghave is plenty already.
Uh, no. We already have Ghave, Guru of Spores as a WBG Saproling commander. Adding red would only serve to make it more combo-y, which Ghave is plenty already.
But thematically it makes the most sense, mindless creatures (green without blue) who are focused on the now (Red) and community (white), have a connection to death-rebirth cycle (black).
you're really going to have to wow me to get me interested in this product.
4 color is just *****ty 5 color.
look, with 4 color you can build heavily around the commander and that removes all the fun stuff or good stuff in favor of making it work, or you can build funstuff which means you're not going to have room for the good stuff, and this is all while going **** it i should just make 5 color because why not at this point.
so they're going to have to try extra hard to make all of this work. also the manabases are going to be shakey. lets quash any expectations of fetchlands or shocklands, or duals or snow duals, or any of that horse ***** right here and now. it won't happen. don't believe it will.
This would realistically be a good time for them to finish the odyssey filter and the talisman cycles since the only ones printed were friendly colors. (Talisman of Progress, Skycloud Expanse and their ilk). They're much more reasonable of an expectation than fetches, shocks, etc.
Is it just me, or is this "Announcement Day" method a horribly dull way to introduce products? "Oh, hey, here's the next block name. Oh, and the name of its second set. Oh, and commanders are 4-color. Also some Planechase stuff and a Duel Deck." No enthusiasm, only 1 art between all the stuff, no set symbols or previews, and way too much at once to really process? I'd be more hyped by a single one of these announcements in full than by this train of "meh".
On topic: 4-color should be interesting, really exited to see how they address the color pie identity of missing only a single color.
This is not for us, this is for stores.
We're not on Hasbro's radar.
I'm hoping for something like (R/W)(2/G)(2/U) so a single 4 color commander can fill roles for friendly color pairs, enemy color pairs, shards, wedges, or all 4 colors. I like flexibility and a commander that can be built tons of different ways.
So with commander decks typically having 3 commander choices, one of which that's always been a reprint... I wonder if they'll make the original Nephilims legendary.
The first is always a bit of a weird thing to go by, but that set had two 3-Color Commanders, and one enemy colored Commander. They may just take that route. Two 4-Color Commmanders, and one Ally Colored one, to get that little bit in. Or enemy colored. Could be anything.
There are a lot of ways this can go wrong,
but I'll reserve judgment until I see what they've done with the theme.
I expect at least one cycle that isn't straight up 4c cards, but has 4c color identity.
For example, a UG creature that can be cast as an enchantment for BW,
or a DFC with WG on the front, and UR on the back
(maybe even castable as either side, effectively giving you two commanders in one).
The manabases will definitely be a challenge,
especially since they have never used new Commander cards to finish old cycles-
so don't expect them to finish the Fastlands or anything else here.
However, it would make a lot of sense for each deck to have a set of all five Mirage fetches,
and maybe a Battleland or two would help out immensely.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I am optimistic about this, but I really hope they don't go the rout of flavor by exclusion. A card explicitly designed to be a commander no matter what the color(s) should have a singular identity. It should be defined by what it is, not what it is not. I never thought 4C Commanders were a good idea, but I also generally like almost all of the attempts at original cards in the EDH decks, so I am giving the designers the benefit of the doubt that they found a good way to do it.
Like a few posters have commented, I hope it's closer to Alesha-type design than straight up 4C. The identity of 4C legends just doesn't make much sense IMO.
That said, I'm quite excited about the foil treatment of the legends. It's senseless to make them Judge-exclusive and having to fork out a Whopper for it. EDH is not a Judge game. It has transcended that long ago. There are many others ways to reward judges.
So would these foils only be reprints or new guys too? I know there are some players who dislike foils.
I guess I'll be looking forward to the reprints and new non-legend cards. And tokens! Please reprint Sengir Autocrat so we can finally get those amazing Serf tokens in paper!
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As for the decks... well, all I really want is that we get a real four-color face Commander and a secondary, four-color identity Commander. We've been waiting for real four-color legends for way too long. Giving us anything else would be like saying "hey, here's a really cool five-color card for your five-color decks!" and giving us Transguild Courier.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
MTGO: UberMower
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Yep. You could see something like a WUBR artifact commander or something of that nature. Okay, WUBR's the only really easy one to do this with.
On phasing:
Do you really need another UW commander? Or any other ally-color commander? There are 30 options in each pair and they are all boring.
And then here they give us something legitimately new and exciting and all you care about is not getting another dumb UW wizard that taps things and draws cards.
jesus god
humans suck
The Deep Ones
Cyborg Huey's Bosh, Iron Golem Deck
Cyborg Huey's Rosheen Meander Deck
BUGThe Dunwich Horror and Other Lovecraftian TalesBUG
This^ steam punk india sounds awesome
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I really hope that these commanders don't adopt this style. Advertising such commanders as "four-color commanders" is wrong by definition. "Commanders with four colors in their color identity" or "commanders that use four colors" would be more appropriate terms to describe them.
I understand that it's been said four-color design space is small. But falling back on the FRF-style legendary creature design is failing to meet the expectations that get brought up by the term "four-color commander".
I really hope that the commanders focus on the four colors that they are rather than the one color that they aren't. It's really easy to make cards that hate on a certain color, by imposing certain extra hoops for them to go through or preventing them from taking certain game actions altogether. But it's much harder to find abilities that make the card feel like it deserves all four of its colors. Even if one or two of the colors are "less represented" than the other two or three, it's still better than defaulting to the hate-on-the-missing-color approach.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
4 color hybrid mana cost commanders like reaper king. maybe they are all tribal lords and they also will have some sort of allied pair costed activated ability. So you can build them as all 4 colors or cut them down to 2 color allied pair.
Uh, no. We already have Ghave, Guru of Spores as a WBG Saproling commander. Adding red would only serve to make it more combo-y, which Ghave is plenty already.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Legendary: 1088 / 1208.
Planeswalkers: 182 / 226.
(16/03/2017)
Also, casual and semi-competitive Commander player \m/
But thematically it makes the most sense, mindless creatures (green without blue) who are focused on the now (Red) and community (white), have a connection to death-rebirth cycle (black).
4 color is just *****ty 5 color.
look, with 4 color you can build heavily around the commander and that removes all the fun stuff or good stuff in favor of making it work, or you can build funstuff which means you're not going to have room for the good stuff, and this is all while going **** it i should just make 5 color because why not at this point.
so they're going to have to try extra hard to make all of this work. also the manabases are going to be shakey. lets quash any expectations of fetchlands or shocklands, or duals or snow duals, or any of that horse ***** right here and now. it won't happen. don't believe it will.
This is not for us, this is for stores.
We're not on Hasbro's radar.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
The first is always a bit of a weird thing to go by, but that set had two 3-Color Commanders, and one enemy colored Commander. They may just take that route. Two 4-Color Commmanders, and one Ally Colored one, to get that little bit in. Or enemy colored. Could be anything.
There are a lot of ways this can go wrong,
but I'll reserve judgment until I see what they've done with the theme.
I expect at least one cycle that isn't straight up 4c cards, but has 4c color identity.
For example, a UG creature that can be cast as an enchantment for BW,
or a DFC with WG on the front, and UR on the back
(maybe even castable as either side, effectively giving you two commanders in one).
The manabases will definitely be a challenge,
especially since they have never used new Commander cards to finish old cycles-
so don't expect them to finish the Fastlands or anything else here.
However, it would make a lot of sense for each deck to have a set of all five Mirage fetches,
and maybe a Battleland or two would help out immensely.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
That said, I'm quite excited about the foil treatment of the legends. It's senseless to make them Judge-exclusive and having to fork out a Whopper for it. EDH is not a Judge game. It has transcended that long ago. There are many others ways to reward judges.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG